| Lack of Passion says Osman. 06:44 - Oct 24 with 23083 views | WestSussexBlue |
This surely starts with MM and TC, are they motivating the players enough, it’s not the first time we’ve looked flat after half time. Lincoln Away was a classic example.
I would have liked to see a Magilton type in the dressing room at HT. |  | | |  |
| Lack of Passion says Osman. on 10:58 - Oct 24 with 5721 views | TractorWood |
| Lack of Passion says Osman. on 08:37 - Oct 24 by Mullet |
That's not entirely true though is it? The best season he's had must have been the one where you could never count us out.
Barnsley this season was about as perfect example of the opposite being true. Changing around a game you're losing is no easy feat, which is why it's so remarkable. When you've been as poor as we have in recruitment and squad depth for 18 months it's no surprise to that happen.
I don't even think we came out slower after HT, it was the goal that did us and by then Skuse had just injured himself, Garner and Adeyemi tired and to me Webster and McG at least don't look fully fit.
Our pressing game probably undone us more than anything Sunday because it was relentless but not really giving us enough when we were so wasteful. |
It's a home derby. The reaction was poor to their goal. Tiredness, non match fitness aren't good enough a dozen or so games into the season. Norwich came with a plan and executed it, we did not.
Take your Barnsley point buy raise you Bristol City. Never involved in that game. |  |
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| Lack of Passion says Osman. on 11:02 - Oct 24 with 5710 views | Jimmy86 |
| Lack of Passion says Osman. on 08:30 - Oct 24 by trncbluearmy |
Why?
We have a multi-millioneer owner who puts just enough in to keep us going and a spineless manager who puts up with it.
Given the transfer fees received and Evans wealth £3m is not above our level it's just more then Evans wants to pay and Dino excepts this, giving him a ready made excuse for his own incompertance.
ITFC are only going to get worse under the current regime it's been so bloody obvious for a very long time |
Couldn't agree more with this and has hit the nail on the head.
It's the can't pay vs won't pay argument. Evans is worth 765 million and could afford to pay 3 million on a player if he wanted to.
Crux of the matter is, he just doesn't want to. Knowing he's got it cushty Mick doesn't rock the boat and voice his displeasure in public.
You just have to look at Steve Lansdown at Bristol City. He's worth a few Bob, doesn't have parachute payments, but forked out 5.3 million for Djedoiu. That is a prime example, he cares about the club and has invested to that effect in recent seasons | | | |
| Lack of Passion says Osman. on 11:04 - Oct 24 with 5704 views | Mullet |
| Lack of Passion says Osman. on 10:58 - Oct 24 by TractorWood |
It's a home derby. The reaction was poor to their goal. Tiredness, non match fitness aren't good enough a dozen or so games into the season. Norwich came with a plan and executed it, we did not.
Take your Barnsley point buy raise you Bristol City. Never involved in that game. |
I don't think anyone can say it was "good enough" but likewise it was also markedly better than the derbies we've seen in the last decade than perhaps those in PO season etc.
Bristol was difficult to cope with given we lost Adeyemi in the warm up and conceded two goals in such a fashion. I'm not sure it's a completely fair measure, as had we overcome that sort of adversity it'd have been heralded somewhere nearer the Sheffield United 3-2 than the rest of the games this season.
Leeds would be a good example. Spence was unable to cope with their striker and his head dropped. Bart fluffed into his own net. As a team we came back at them and there were passages of excellent mental fortitude.
No one will remember that though because we had the same softness, which gave away the lead and ultimately the game twice. However the reaction to the defeat at the time spoke volumes when you compare them to a much tighter non-event like the Blade last week. |  |
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| Lack of Passion says Osman. on 11:15 - Oct 24 with 5679 views | itfcjoe |
| Lack of Passion says Osman. on 10:58 - Oct 24 by TractorWood |
It's a home derby. The reaction was poor to their goal. Tiredness, non match fitness aren't good enough a dozen or so games into the season. Norwich came with a plan and executed it, we did not.
Take your Barnsley point buy raise you Bristol City. Never involved in that game. |
Goals change games, and we aren't a side built to come from behind generally.
Mick isn't getting much right at the moment, but is it that different to the start of the season other than our strikers have stopped taking good chances and we've been conceding goals that we weren't at the time.
Without parroting Mick too much, it really is a bonkers league when anyone can beat anyone - and you've got to take your chances when you get them, which we've stopped doing.
Agree re previous points about what is the plan etc, does seem like we need to try and set up to hurt the opposition more often - especially at home |  |
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| Lack of Passion says Osman. on 11:19 - Oct 24 with 5664 views | Superfrans |
I saw this from Osman and I thought it was, frankly, garbage and a low blow from someone who should know better.
One of the few things you could argue in favour of our current crop of players is that they don't waltz around the pitch, without a care in the world. They put in a shift and work as hard as any other players possibly could. We have a captain in Chambers who lives and breathes the club, likewise Knudsen, Skuse, Bart, even newer players like Waghorn, Garner, Spence etc don't lack effort. By all means, we can talk about the ability of the players or how they are set up to play, but passion isn't lacking at all imho.
Just because players don't run about the pitch roaring and screaming doesn't mean they don't have passion. I have a huge amount of commitment and passion for my job, but I don't scream and roar, I work hard, take my work home with me (both literally and mentally) and give everything I can to do my job to the best of my god-given talents (such as they are). |  |
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| Lack of Passion says Osman. on 11:29 - Oct 24 with 5642 views | Superfrans |
| Lack of Passion says Osman. on 07:31 - Oct 24 by Steve_M |
Partly Norwich bloke everything up with a big increase in gamesmanship but we also had probably four players who were less than fully fit - Garner, Adeyemi, McGoldrick, Webster and that has to have an effect.
We still got forward and created a good chance for McGoldrick but once we were behind.... |
Indeed this.
We do have to always remember there is another team on the pitch and that, when we don't perform as expected, that can sometimes be because the opposition have done their job well.
One thing about Frake, it seems he gets his teams very well organised. Pre-season, the budgies were getting very excited about his passing philosophy, but in recent weeks they've been extremely well drilled defensively, apparently.
And, fact is, they didn't offer too much going forward on Sunday. Certainly, they weren't more attacking than us. Granted, they got more shots on target, but didn't get into better positions any more than we did. | |
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| Lack of Passion says Osman. on 11:34 - Oct 24 with 5623 views | Superfrans |
| Lack of Passion says Osman. on 11:15 - Oct 24 by itfcjoe |
Goals change games, and we aren't a side built to come from behind generally.
Mick isn't getting much right at the moment, but is it that different to the start of the season other than our strikers have stopped taking good chances and we've been conceding goals that we weren't at the time.
Without parroting Mick too much, it really is a bonkers league when anyone can beat anyone - and you've got to take your chances when you get them, which we've stopped doing.
Agree re previous points about what is the plan etc, does seem like we need to try and set up to hurt the opposition more often - especially at home |
A budgie I know said before the game that their best chance was to take the lead - if they did that, he was confident that they would win, because they are well organised and strong defensively, where required. And so it proved.
The biggest frustration for me about Sunday (and I'm only now beginning to be able to post about it, because it was SOOOOO annoying) was that we are now not that different in terms of quality. Their one piece of decent play resulted in their goal - with a sliver of luck (or on a different day), Knudsen's shot in the first 5 minutes would have gone in, or McGoldrick's header would have gone in (or fallen to Waghorn, Garner, Chambers, and been despatched).
Big difference this season compared to last - we're not turning defeats into draws. That's not at all McCarthy-like. | |
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| Lack of Passion says Osman. on 11:34 - Oct 24 with 5619 views | Ryorry |
| Lack of Passion says Osman. on 08:37 - Oct 24 by Mullet |
That's not entirely true though is it? The best season he's had must have been the one where you could never count us out.
Barnsley this season was about as perfect example of the opposite being true. Changing around a game you're losing is no easy feat, which is why it's so remarkable. When you've been as poor as we have in recruitment and squad depth for 18 months it's no surprise to that happen.
I don't even think we came out slower after HT, it was the goal that did us and by then Skuse had just injured himself, Garner and Adeyemi tired and to me Webster and McG at least don't look fully fit.
Our pressing game probably undone us more than anything Sunday because it was relentless but not really giving us enough when we were so wasteful. |
According to Talksport, we never got our heads back up after they scored.
That's unforgiveable, and something that costs nothing extra to sort - where was the motivation from MM, and where was the captaincy? You can bet your bottom dollar that Magic would have got their heads back up bloody pronto, with some choice passion - remember 'that' play-off semi??!!  |  |
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| Lack of Passion says Osman. on 11:39 - Oct 24 with 5599 views | itfcjoe |
| Lack of Passion says Osman. on 11:34 - Oct 24 by Ryorry |
According to Talksport, we never got our heads back up after they scored.
That's unforgiveable, and something that costs nothing extra to sort - where was the motivation from MM, and where was the captaincy? You can bet your bottom dollar that Magic would have got their heads back up bloody pronto, with some choice passion - remember 'that' play-off semi??!! |
Norwich have won 3 of their last 4 away games 1-0, and the other one was 2-1 - it might be that they deserve credit for shutting the game down totally and it wasn't just that our heads dropped, but that we couldn't get anywhere against a well organised side. | |
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| Lack of Passion says Osman. on 11:42 - Oct 24 with 5582 views | Ryorry |
| Lack of Passion says Osman. on 11:39 - Oct 24 by itfcjoe |
Norwich have won 3 of their last 4 away games 1-0, and the other one was 2-1 - it might be that they deserve credit for shutting the game down totally and it wasn't just that our heads dropped, but that we couldn't get anywhere against a well organised side. |
No - there is absolutely no excuse for not getting our heads back up, whatever N did/didn't do.
My point was about our lack of passion/motivation, in keeping with the OP. | |
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| Lack of Passion says Osman. on 11:43 - Oct 24 with 5573 views | TractorWood |
| Lack of Passion says Osman. on 11:15 - Oct 24 by itfcjoe |
Goals change games, and we aren't a side built to come from behind generally.
Mick isn't getting much right at the moment, but is it that different to the start of the season other than our strikers have stopped taking good chances and we've been conceding goals that we weren't at the time.
Without parroting Mick too much, it really is a bonkers league when anyone can beat anyone - and you've got to take your chances when you get them, which we've stopped doing.
Agree re previous points about what is the plan etc, does seem like we need to try and set up to hurt the opposition more often - especially at home |
Fair enough but generally speaking we've lost to teams now above us and beaten ones below us, so I don't buy the bonkers league for us personally but do see it when I look at results for the league generally. [Post edited 24 Oct 2017 11:44]
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| Lack of Passion says Osman. on 11:47 - Oct 24 with 5551 views | itfcjoe |
| Lack of Passion says Osman. on 11:42 - Oct 24 by Ryorry |
No - there is absolutely no excuse for not getting our heads back up, whatever N did/didn't do.
My point was about our lack of passion/motivation, in keeping with the OP. |
I personally think it's just a lazy criticism, we huffed and puffed but didn't get anywhere - it wasn't a lack of effort we just couldn't get back into the game when it was shut down, like Fulham and Bristol City did to us | |
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| Lack of Passion says Osman. on 11:48 - Oct 24 with 5541 views | itfcjoe |
| Lack of Passion says Osman. on 11:43 - Oct 24 by TractorWood |
Fair enough but generally speaking we've lost to teams now above us and beaten ones below us, so I don't buy the bonkers league for us personally but do see it when I look at results for the league generally. [Post edited 24 Oct 2017 11:44]
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That's probably fair this season - but a number of those games could easily have gone the other way.
I'm not really sure what the point is currently, just hoping we can magic up a run of form and get some momentum going - it doesn't appear to be likely currently as we are consistently inconsistent | |
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| Lack of Passion says Osman. on 11:57 - Oct 24 with 5514 views | Herbivore |
| Lack of Passion says Osman. on 11:47 - Oct 24 by itfcjoe |
I personally think it's just a lazy criticism, we huffed and puffed but didn't get anywhere - it wasn't a lack of effort we just couldn't get back into the game when it was shut down, like Fulham and Bristol City did to us |
Agreed, the whole lack of passion argument is just nonsense. |  |
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| Lack of Passion says Osman. on 11:59 - Oct 24 with 5507 views | Ryorry |
| Lack of Passion says Osman. on 11:47 - Oct 24 by itfcjoe |
I personally think it's just a lazy criticism, we huffed and puffed but didn't get anywhere - it wasn't a lack of effort we just couldn't get back into the game when it was shut down, like Fulham and Bristol City did to us |
Nonsense.
Hundreds of those who went plus Matt Holland & other co-commentator on Talksport totally disagree with you - all said our heads dropped after their goal, & never got back up. | |
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| Lack of Passion says Osman. on 12:04 - Oct 24 with 5499 views | J4ck22 |
No argument that we were poor after the Norwich goal, but I do think it's harsh to say we lacked effort. Norwich are set up very well for holding on to a lead and the first goal was always crucial. People seem to mistake charging around, shouting a lot and making rash decisions and other things associated with passion as a good thing, but all it does is leave you potentially far more exposed and likely to make mistakes. There needs to be some sort of calmness and patience, especially in a derby match. Fans groaned when players tried to keep the ball, fans also groaned when players hoofed it long. Fans wanted players to somehow magically teleport the ball into the box. It really doesn't work that way. | | | |
| Lack of Passion says Osman. on 12:15 - Oct 24 with 5477 views | LankHenners |
Citing 'lack of passion' is a very lazy criticism when talking about football matches - the players are all professionals, I'm sure they all wanted to win the game. And besides, a failure to take our chances in the 1st half played a big part in the result.
However, whilst Norwich's set-up in the 2nd half and Adeyemi/Garner's tiring didn't help us, there was a very noticeable drop in performance levels after the goal, with several players playing very casual , aimless passes that went straight to them. I'm not talking about 'hoofing' as such either, just very slack play in general.
Arguably our best quality under Mick was the ability to rally after going behind to come back and win the game. Last season a lot of games were over as soon as the opposition scored the first goal (in fact, did we actually win once after conceding the 1st goal?), and this season's in danger of drifting the same way. It's well and good saying 'the opposition played well' 'goals change games' etc. but as recently as 2 years ago as a team we'd have poo-pooed those words and gone 'fck this, we're getting 3 points here'. |  |
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| Lack of Passion says Osman. on 12:28 - Oct 24 with 5435 views | christiand |
| Lack of Passion says Osman. on 11:34 - Oct 24 by Superfrans |
A budgie I know said before the game that their best chance was to take the lead - if they did that, he was confident that they would win, because they are well organised and strong defensively, where required. And so it proved.
The biggest frustration for me about Sunday (and I'm only now beginning to be able to post about it, because it was SOOOOO annoying) was that we are now not that different in terms of quality. Their one piece of decent play resulted in their goal - with a sliver of luck (or on a different day), Knudsen's shot in the first 5 minutes would have gone in, or McGoldrick's header would have gone in (or fallen to Waghorn, Garner, Chambers, and been despatched).
Big difference this season compared to last - we're not turning defeats into draws. That's not at all McCarthy-like. |
The way we defend, I wouldn't have been confident that we could be as organised as Norwich at the back and look so secure. To me, we always look likely to concede a goal when we come under the slightest of pressure.
Attacking wise, the Ipswich strikers could be there now, lumping the ball in the air aimlessly, and still not score. I think I noted, Angus Gunn had a cigar on at one point in the second half leaning against a post as he was so untroubled. | |
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| Lack of Passion says Osman. on 12:32 - Oct 24 with 5423 views | Superfrans |
| Lack of Passion says Osman. on 11:42 - Oct 24 by Ryorry |
No - there is absolutely no excuse for not getting our heads back up, whatever N did/didn't do.
My point was about our lack of passion/motivation, in keeping with the OP. |
What does "getting our heads back up" mean?
And, just for clarity, were you there? | |
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| Lack of Passion says Osman. on 12:35 - Oct 24 with 5415 views | Superfrans |
| Lack of Passion says Osman. on 11:59 - Oct 24 by Ryorry |
Nonsense.
Hundreds of those who went plus Matt Holland & other co-commentator on Talksport totally disagree with you - all said our heads dropped after their goal, & never got back up. |
Heads dropping has nothing to do with passion.
If someone says our heads dropped, I perceive that as meaning we didn't have the confidence that we could get back into it. | |
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| Lack of Passion says Osman. on 12:35 - Oct 24 with 5416 views | WestSussexBlue |
| Lack of Passion says Osman. on 07:13 - Oct 24 by Guthrum |
One odd thing is that there was no reason to be flat after the break. The game was still 0 - 0, we weren't a man down, didn't even sound like we were being badly overrun (except perhaps Spence).
So what sucked all the energy out of the team? |
Exactly, The players looked well up for it from the start, I think it’s lack of drive and motivation from the manager at HT, maybe it’s just not his style but as I say, I reckon Magilton would have been the sort to be screaming for them to get the job done. His Blue blood always shone through. | | | |
| Lack of Passion says Osman. on 12:35 - Oct 24 with 5412 views | Sarge |
| Lack of Passion says Osman. on 08:43 - Oct 24 by Johnny_Boy |
Did you know, not a single Norwich player was booked in the match. |
Which is a disgrace because there were plenty of fouls worthy of at least a yellow. The ref was abysmal. | | | |
| Lack of Passion says Osman. on 12:38 - Oct 24 with 5401 views | upthewallpaul |
70 mins until the first attacking substitution! I'm amazed more hasn't been made of this. Playing Garner, Waghorn and McGoldrick in the same team simply wasn't working and yet Mick persisted with it for so long. | | | |
| Lack of Passion says Osman. on 12:40 - Oct 24 with 5395 views | Superfrans |
| Lack of Passion says Osman. on 12:28 - Oct 24 by christiand |
The way we defend, I wouldn't have been confident that we could be as organised as Norwich at the back and look so secure. To me, we always look likely to concede a goal when we come under the slightest of pressure.
Attacking wise, the Ipswich strikers could be there now, lumping the ball in the air aimlessly, and still not score. I think I noted, Angus Gunn had a cigar on at one point in the second half leaning against a post as he was so untroubled. |
Of course, the way we were defending last September (when we conceded 2 goals in 7 games) we were doing what Norwich have been doing recently - well organised, saftey first, scraping wins and draws. The difference is that they have quality on the ball and on the break, which enables them to sneak wins in games like Sundays.
This season, we're more open at the back because we're attacking more than we were - not majority of possession, more shots and more corners than the budgies on Sunday. This is what we asked for.
But none of that has anything to do with lack of passion. | |
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| Lack of Passion says Osman. on 12:41 - Oct 24 with 5387 views | Superfrans |
| Lack of Passion says Osman. on 12:35 - Oct 24 by WestSussexBlue |
Exactly, The players looked well up for it from the start, I think it’s lack of drive and motivation from the manager at HT, maybe it’s just not his style but as I say, I reckon Magilton would have been the sort to be screaming for them to get the job done. His Blue blood always shone through. |
There was another team on the pitch. They were better organised and they played us. It's really not much more compliacted than this. | |
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