| Even in our darkest days I don't think I've ever seen 16:54 - Dec 30 with 39215 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
such a toothless, uninventive, negative side. We really offer NOTHING [Post edited 30 Dec 2017 16:55]
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| Even in our darkest days I don't think I've ever seen on 17:29 - Dec 30 with 5739 views | Darth_Koont |
| Even in our darkest days I don't think I've ever seen on 17:20 - Dec 30 by tiptreeblue |
Really, what on earth game were you watching?. they could easily have had four or five |
I'd agree first half. We were definitely second-best and totally overpowered in midfield. Second half, we organised ourselves and got back into a game we were well out of.
It's not great but the idea it was some new low is as ridiculous as the poster who posted it. |  |
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| Even in our darkest days I don't think I've ever seen on 17:32 - Dec 30 with 5732 views | pointofblue |
| Even in our darkest days I don't think I've ever seen on 17:13 - Dec 30 by Herbivore |
What b0llocks, Derby have spent an absolute fortune and will.feel relieved to have come out of that with a win. First half was meh, we didn't get much going, but second half we bounced back well and we were a bit unlucky not to salvage a point. |
OK, we were better in the second half but saying we were unlucky not to salvage a point is stretching it a bit. |  |
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| Even in our darkest days I don't think I've ever seen on 17:32 - Dec 30 with 5734 views | Ftnfwest |
True a lot of the time but sounds harsh today. However people talking about various ‘must win’ games etc really need to reign it in. There are too many sides better than us for us to get into the play offs (and getting to the play offs isn’t promotion). We’re 5 wins from safety which is the important thing. |  | | |
| Even in our darkest days I don't think I've ever seen on 17:32 - Dec 30 with 5728 views | Johnny_Boy |
| Even in our darkest days I don't think I've ever seen on 17:25 - Dec 30 by Bluesquid |
Overpowered in the first half?
I really lost count the amount of times we gave the ball away from hoofing it or from those very few times we tried to keep it down and play it forward. Hardly ever reached one of our players so i wouldn't call that being overpowered. |
We've been hoofing it all season - to our early success TBF. |  | | |
| Even in our darkest days I don't think I've ever seen on 17:35 - Dec 30 with 5718 views | pointofblue |
| Even in our darkest days I don't think I've ever seen on 17:29 - Dec 30 by Darth_Koont |
I'd agree first half. We were definitely second-best and totally overpowered in midfield. Second half, we organised ourselves and got back into a game we were well out of.
It's not great but the idea it was some new low is as ridiculous as the poster who posted it. |
To be fair, the original poster didn't say THIS was our new low - he said even IN our darkest days he couldn't recall us being so toothless, uninventive and negative.
I don't agree, I hasten to add, as last year was worse. | |
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| Even in our darkest days I don't think I've ever seen on 17:36 - Dec 30 with 5709 views | Darth_Koont |
| Even in our darkest days I don't think I've ever seen on 17:32 - Dec 30 by pointofblue |
OK, we were better in the second half but saying we were unlucky not to salvage a point is stretching it a bit. |
"A bit unlucky" is about right. Derby deserved the win but there were a few flurries and half-chances second-half where the ball didn't drop for us.
All-in-all, we deserved what we got in the game from the first half. Second half we could have snatched something. | |
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| Even in our darkest days I don't think I've ever seen on 17:37 - Dec 30 with 5700 views | tiptreeblue |
| Even in our darkest days I don't think I've ever seen on 17:26 - Dec 30 by Herbivore |
When? Bart made one routine save and they missed one good chance straight after they scored. If you really think they could've scored 4 or 5 then we could've as well. |
i admire your optimism Herby. good luck to you | | | |
| Even in our darkest days I don't think I've ever seen on 17:38 - Dec 30 with 5691 views | lazyblue |
Really? | | | |
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| Even in our darkest days I don't think I've ever seen on 17:39 - Dec 30 with 5684 views | Steve_M |
We were far worse last season, far worse at times under Keane and completely inept at times under Jewell so, whilst there are criticisms from today, your hyperbole is misplaced. |  |
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| Even in our darkest days I don't think I've ever seen on 17:40 - Dec 30 with 5680 views | Darth_Koont |
| Even in our darkest days I don't think I've ever seen on 17:35 - Dec 30 by pointofblue |
To be fair, the original poster didn't say THIS was our new low - he said even IN our darkest days he couldn't recall us being so toothless, uninventive and negative.
I don't agree, I hasten to add, as last year was worse. |
That's what he implied, even if I'd never take the OP literally or seriously.
He got a few of the congenital dimwits to go with him. And interesting to see them flock to a stupid OTT opinion so readily. | |
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| Even in our darkest days I don't think I've ever seen on 17:43 - Dec 30 with 5662 views | pointofblue |
| Even in our darkest days I don't think I've ever seen on 17:39 - Dec 30 by Steve_M |
We were far worse last season, far worse at times under Keane and completely inept at times under Jewell so, whilst there are criticisms from today, your hyperbole is misplaced. |
I guess the thing is about the Jewell days is I had hope. Yes, his era was a nightmare - particularly at the end - but I thought if we got the right man in we could at least improve and have a charge up the league which, indeed, happened at the start under Mick.
But the league has now become too rich for us. I'm not saying there isn't a manager out there who could do better than Mick but when the financial differences in the league are becoming so stark (as someone else said, some Derby players cost more than our entire squad) it's going to be more and more difficult to challenge, whoever is in charge. | |
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| Even in our darkest days I don't think I've ever seen on 17:51 - Dec 30 with 5633 views | Darth_Koont |
| Even in our darkest days I don't think I've ever seen on 17:43 - Dec 30 by pointofblue |
I guess the thing is about the Jewell days is I had hope. Yes, his era was a nightmare - particularly at the end - but I thought if we got the right man in we could at least improve and have a charge up the league which, indeed, happened at the start under Mick.
But the league has now become too rich for us. I'm not saying there isn't a manager out there who could do better than Mick but when the financial differences in the league are becoming so stark (as someone else said, some Derby players cost more than our entire squad) it's going to be more and more difficult to challenge, whoever is in charge. |
So what does Mick and the team do?
I'd even argue that ME can't do a whole lot as throwing money at it seems to be a bit random nowadays too.
What about supporting a limited but affordable team that's making great use of its youngsters and astute signings? I think we'd all be on board if we hadn't had such wretched luck with our midfield injuries - that alone has seen us slip away from the playoffs. | |
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| Even in our darkest days I don't think I've ever seen on 17:52 - Dec 30 with 5628 views | madmouse1959 |
| Even in our darkest days I don't think I've ever seen on 17:03 - Dec 30 by Darth_Koont |
You really think today's performance against a good Derby side was worse than our darkest days?!!
Some people need to take a long hard look at themselves and find some perspective. |
Oh com on....get real. We limp from one game to another and after the drab 95 minutes v QPR you would expect a bit more of a battle.
One good game in 8 is no good to any one. We expect some sort of fight to get 3 points. |  |
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| Even in our darkest days I don't think I've ever seen on 17:55 - Dec 30 with 5620 views | Darth_Koont |
| Even in our darkest days I don't think I've ever seen on 17:52 - Dec 30 by madmouse1959 |
Oh com on....get real. We limp from one game to another and after the drab 95 minutes v QPR you would expect a bit more of a battle.
One good game in 8 is no good to any one. We expect some sort of fight to get 3 points. |
We have fight. What we lack is quality and strength.
Are you really saying this side doesn't put the effort in? | |
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| Even in our darkest days I don't think I've ever seen on 17:55 - Dec 30 with 5618 views | madmouse1959 |
| Even in our darkest days I don't think I've ever seen on 17:13 - Dec 30 by Herbivore |
What b0llocks, Derby have spent an absolute fortune and will.feel relieved to have come out of that with a win. First half was meh, we didn't get much going, but second half we bounced back well and we were a bit unlucky not to salvage a point. |
...yep, I thought it wouldn,t be long before that old chestnut was used...."they spent money"..... etc.....................FFS.....stop being in denial. | |
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| Even in our darkest days I don't think I've ever seen on 17:57 - Dec 30 with 5611 views | Herbivore |
| Even in our darkest days I don't think I've ever seen on 17:32 - Dec 30 by Johnny_Boy |
We've been hoofing it all season - to our early success TBF. |
I love how forthright you are without ever actually watching us play. |  |
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| Even in our darkest days I don't think I've ever seen on 18:03 - Dec 30 with 5592 views | pointofblue |
| Even in our darkest days I don't think I've ever seen on 17:51 - Dec 30 by Darth_Koont |
So what does Mick and the team do?
I'd even argue that ME can't do a whole lot as throwing money at it seems to be a bit random nowadays too.
What about supporting a limited but affordable team that's making great use of its youngsters and astute signings? I think we'd all be on board if we hadn't had such wretched luck with our midfield injuries - that alone has seen us slip away from the playoffs. |
I think it's just frustration for most; we had our chance in 2014/2015 and now we're seemingly treading water again. There's only so many times the club can go round in circles before people decide they've had enough.
You're absolutely right in the development of youth and astute signings and if this happened last year instead of this confidence and appreciation would be higher. Last year just killed a lot of support for the club, whether rightly or wrongly, alongside decisions off the pitch - and it's going to take more than one season looking up at the Play Offs to get it back.
As a fan base we're probably one of the most unreasonable in the league due to the injury crisis and scant resources but I think it's because, as a whole, we've had enough. We can't face going around again, with probably even more clubs with financial backing pushing us back even further. | |
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| Even in our darkest days I don't think I've ever seen on 18:04 - Dec 30 with 5588 views | christiand |
| Even in our darkest days I don't think I've ever seen on 17:26 - Dec 30 by Herbivore |
When? Bart made one routine save and they missed one good chance straight after they scored. If you really think they could've scored 4 or 5 then we could've as well. |
Talksport had a reporter at the game Herbivore, said we didn’t do much at all in the first half. Derby could’ve been 4 up by half time. It was only until the second goal went in that Ipswich came more into the game and looked threatening, but we didn’t test Carson enough in Derby’s goal throughout the whole game.
This cost of squad excuse is becoming a little boring and the main excuse used for our team’s frailties. It seems to me that every club has spent more money on their squads than ours - in all leagues, it’s just becoming so repetitive. Is that why we were so poor against QPR because their squad cost millions more than ours? Why Bristol City beat Man United the other week because their squad costs millions more than Mourinho’s side? No, and as we showed in the last 25 minutes today we could’ve actually got something out of the game if we had started playing at the first whistle instead of pulling our finger out when we were 0-2 down and the game seemed lost.
I was expecting us to lose today due to Derby’s quality, but why can’t we be the assertive team at home rather than the visitors, go down with a fight? Although their players cost more they are merely flesh and bone like ours and make mistakes when put under pressure. It is like we are afraid of even trying to be assertive which is so frustrating until it is too late! [Post edited 30 Dec 2017 18:10]
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| Even in our darkest days I don't think I've ever seen on 18:08 - Dec 30 with 5589 views | Johnny_Boy |
| Even in our darkest days I don't think I've ever seen on 17:57 - Dec 30 by Herbivore |
I love how forthright you are without ever actually watching us play. |
Against Birmingham we were hoofing it - I saw that.
Against Millwall we were hoofing it - I saw that.
Against Sheff Weds we were hoofing it - I saw that.
Against Villa we were hoofing it - I saw that.
It worked both times against Brum & Millwall as we were pressing high + hard & we managed more than 2 shots on target for the whole 90 mins.
I think the 5yrs of MM in charge has brainwashed/conditioned you (and others) into just naturally accepting his hoofmanship - and believing that's all we can serve up on a limited budget.
If you get the chance, I urge you to watch the highlights of Cardiff v PNE from Friday night.
Preston, whilst lacking composure in the final third (far too many hopeful potshots from 20yards out) were playing possession football. Keeping it on the floor. Lovely stuff. No defenders panicking & lumping it straight to their forwards. Nope. The midfield - get this - was actually being used!
That is down to the manager, the tactics & team ideology.
Look, let's not fall out. Nobody believed we'd get anything from today. Onwards & upwards. [Post edited 31 Dec 2017 7:56]
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| Even in our darkest days I don't think I've ever seen on 18:10 - Dec 30 with 5566 views | Darth_Koont |
| Even in our darkest days I don't think I've ever seen on 18:03 - Dec 30 by pointofblue |
I think it's just frustration for most; we had our chance in 2014/2015 and now we're seemingly treading water again. There's only so many times the club can go round in circles before people decide they've had enough.
You're absolutely right in the development of youth and astute signings and if this happened last year instead of this confidence and appreciation would be higher. Last year just killed a lot of support for the club, whether rightly or wrongly, alongside decisions off the pitch - and it's going to take more than one season looking up at the Play Offs to get it back.
As a fan base we're probably one of the most unreasonable in the league due to the injury crisis and scant resources but I think it's because, as a whole, we've had enough. We can't face going around again, with probably even more clubs with financial backing pushing us back even further. |
It's not ideal but I don't think we're actually that far off with our squad. Injuries have played a huge part and midfield has been a gap all season.
It brings it home when Webster is hitting long balls on his supposed wrong foot to bypass the midfield. But put Skuse, Adeyemi and Huw in there, or even one of Dozzell, Connololy or Bishop, we're suddenly stronger and far more technical.
That strength and technical ability in midfield was exactly the difference in the first half. | |
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| Even in our darkest days I don't think I've ever seen on 18:17 - Dec 30 with 5545 views | Herbivore |
| Even in our darkest days I don't think I've ever seen on 17:43 - Dec 30 by pointofblue |
I guess the thing is about the Jewell days is I had hope. Yes, his era was a nightmare - particularly at the end - but I thought if we got the right man in we could at least improve and have a charge up the league which, indeed, happened at the start under Mick.
But the league has now become too rich for us. I'm not saying there isn't a manager out there who could do better than Mick but when the financial differences in the league are becoming so stark (as someone else said, some Derby players cost more than our entire squad) it's going to be more and more difficult to challenge, whoever is in charge. |
Turning on a group of players and manager who have largely managed to compete with squads that have cost several times of much doesn't seem like the right response to me. Not accusing you of that by the way, but I've read others saying things like 'finances are just an excuse' as though being able to spend £10m on a played and pay him £30k a week doesn't really mean you're likely to have better players. Our fans need to live in the real world imo and maybe actually get behind them rather than lamenting that we're not soulless mercenary failures like Derby. | |
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| Even in our darkest days I don't think I've ever seen on 18:20 - Dec 30 with 5534 views | TractorWood |
| Even in our darkest days I don't think I've ever seen on 18:17 - Dec 30 by Herbivore |
Turning on a group of players and manager who have largely managed to compete with squads that have cost several times of much doesn't seem like the right response to me. Not accusing you of that by the way, but I've read others saying things like 'finances are just an excuse' as though being able to spend £10m on a played and pay him £30k a week doesn't really mean you're likely to have better players. Our fans need to live in the real world imo and maybe actually get behind them rather than lamenting that we're not soulless mercenary failures like Derby. |
I don't disagree but (Devil's advocate) getting on MM's back when we were dross last season seems to have put some fire in his belly to sort it out, it's a result business and some won't clap losses whoever we are playing. That's football. |  |
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| Even in our darkest days I don't think I've ever seen on 18:27 - Dec 30 with 5517 views | Darth_Koont |
| Even in our darkest days I don't think I've ever seen on 18:20 - Dec 30 by TractorWood |
I don't disagree but (Devil's advocate) getting on MM's back when we were dross last season seems to have put some fire in his belly to sort it out, it's a result business and some won't clap losses whoever we are playing. That's football. |
That suggests that a pro manager needs fans to tell him that he's not doing well enough.
I think we're beyond that in modern football. If a manager doesn't want better from his team then it's unlikely he'll ever manage in the Evo-Stik let alone the Championship. | |
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| Even in our darkest days I don't think I've ever seen on 18:29 - Dec 30 with 5506 views | Johnny_Boy |
| Even in our darkest days I don't think I've ever seen on 18:17 - Dec 30 by Herbivore |
Turning on a group of players and manager who have largely managed to compete with squads that have cost several times of much doesn't seem like the right response to me. Not accusing you of that by the way, but I've read others saying things like 'finances are just an excuse' as though being able to spend £10m on a played and pay him £30k a week doesn't really mean you're likely to have better players. Our fans need to live in the real world imo and maybe actually get behind them rather than lamenting that we're not soulless mercenary failures like Derby. |
Barring PNE (unless you can tell me otherwise), every team above us has spent more than us.
Should MM just play defensively against all of them - seeing as their squads are SOOOO much better than ours? Just seems like a get-out-of-jail-free clause. Personally.
Fulham away up next. What's your predictions? | | | |
| Even in our darkest days I don't think I've ever seen on 18:32 - Dec 30 with 5488 views | TractorWood |
| Even in our darkest days I don't think I've ever seen on 18:27 - Dec 30 by Darth_Koont |
That suggests that a pro manager needs fans to tell him that he's not doing well enough.
I think we're beyond that in modern football. If a manager doesn't want better from his team then it's unlikely he'll ever manage in the Evo-Stik let alone the Championship. |
Again, in essence I agree but I struggle to imagine the board giving MM real, structured performance parameters so you're reliant on self motivation. That being the case, are we not too exposed to MM who may or may not be out manager in August? Madness. | |
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