| That Iceland palm oil thing....... on 09:30 - Nov 21 with 3195 views | StokieBlue |
That article misses the point doesn't it? Sure there are other issues and problems but why do they all need to be tackled at once? It's absolutely fine to take on a single issue as the advert does.
Orangutans only live in the wild in Borneo and Sumatra and their habitat is being destroyed at an insane rate:
http://wwf.panda.org/our_work/forests/deforestation_fronts/deforestation_in_born
"In Indonesia alone, palm oil production expanded from 600,000 hectares in 1985 to over 6 million hectares by 2007."
Lots of other large numbers in that article as well.
It seems pretty hard to get anything without palm oil in now. I made some dauphinoise potatoes the other day using Oatly which is an oat based dairy substitute because we have someone coming for dinner who can't have dairy. Even on that palm oil is one of the ingredients.
I've been lucky enough in my life to see Orangutans in the wild in Borneo. Will my kids or their kids get to say the same? It's not a diverse animal, it lives there and nowhere else.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| That Iceland palm oil thing....... on 09:33 - Nov 21 with 3199 views | footers |
They're already doing their bit with Iceland meat products containing less than 50% meat and a healthy, environmentally sound 50% sawdust. |  |
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| That Iceland palm oil thing....... on 09:39 - Nov 21 with 3165 views | Swansea_Blue |
| That Iceland palm oil thing....... on 09:30 - Nov 21 by StokieBlue |
That article misses the point doesn't it? Sure there are other issues and problems but why do they all need to be tackled at once? It's absolutely fine to take on a single issue as the advert does.
Orangutans only live in the wild in Borneo and Sumatra and their habitat is being destroyed at an insane rate:
http://wwf.panda.org/our_work/forests/deforestation_fronts/deforestation_in_born
"In Indonesia alone, palm oil production expanded from 600,000 hectares in 1985 to over 6 million hectares by 2007."
Lots of other large numbers in that article as well.
It seems pretty hard to get anything without palm oil in now. I made some dauphinoise potatoes the other day using Oatly which is an oat based dairy substitute because we have someone coming for dinner who can't have dairy. Even on that palm oil is one of the ingredients.
I've been lucky enough in my life to see Orangutans in the wild in Borneo. Will my kids or their kids get to say the same? It's not a diverse animal, it lives there and nowhere else.
SB |
Yes it does. It's not one connected forest system. If palm oil plantations are an issue in one particularly region, there's nothing wrong with focussing on them in that particular region. There's no alternative if more sustainable practices are to be put in place.
It's a well meaning blog, but ultimately a bit naive. |  |
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| That Iceland palm oil thing....... on 09:42 - Nov 21 with 3149 views | itfcjoe |
| That Iceland palm oil thing....... on 09:30 - Nov 21 by StokieBlue |
That article misses the point doesn't it? Sure there are other issues and problems but why do they all need to be tackled at once? It's absolutely fine to take on a single issue as the advert does.
Orangutans only live in the wild in Borneo and Sumatra and their habitat is being destroyed at an insane rate:
http://wwf.panda.org/our_work/forests/deforestation_fronts/deforestation_in_born
"In Indonesia alone, palm oil production expanded from 600,000 hectares in 1985 to over 6 million hectares by 2007."
Lots of other large numbers in that article as well.
It seems pretty hard to get anything without palm oil in now. I made some dauphinoise potatoes the other day using Oatly which is an oat based dairy substitute because we have someone coming for dinner who can't have dairy. Even on that palm oil is one of the ingredients.
I've been lucky enough in my life to see Orangutans in the wild in Borneo. Will my kids or their kids get to say the same? It's not a diverse animal, it lives there and nowhere else.
SB |
Yep - it's why so much stuff doesn't get done, because no one is willing to focus on one issue.
Yeah you are doing this, but you aren't doing this or this....it means everything gets spread so thinly and nothing gets achieved.
I was listening to someone talk about the civil rights campaign vs Black Lives Matter and they were saying how they had one goal, and everything else no matter how worthy was ignored to achieve what they needed to achieve. Think it is very good advice. |  |
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| That Iceland palm oil thing....... on 09:43 - Nov 21 with 3143 views | BlueBadger |
| That Iceland palm oil thing....... on 09:39 - Nov 21 by Swansea_Blue |
Yes it does. It's not one connected forest system. If palm oil plantations are an issue in one particularly region, there's nothing wrong with focussing on them in that particular region. There's no alternative if more sustainable practices are to be put in place.
It's a well meaning blog, but ultimately a bit naive. |
I was reading something the other day that palm oil os considerably more energy efficient and cost-effetcive than similar other crops and simply banning it might even be counter-productive in terms of environmental effects, so again, like you say perhaps the solution is here is to be encouraging and people in areas of particular fragility to seek more friendly alternatives rather than a blanket 'none of this' approach.. |  |
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| That Iceland palm oil thing....... on 09:44 - Nov 21 with 3138 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| That Iceland palm oil thing....... on 09:30 - Nov 21 by StokieBlue |
That article misses the point doesn't it? Sure there are other issues and problems but why do they all need to be tackled at once? It's absolutely fine to take on a single issue as the advert does.
Orangutans only live in the wild in Borneo and Sumatra and their habitat is being destroyed at an insane rate:
http://wwf.panda.org/our_work/forests/deforestation_fronts/deforestation_in_born
"In Indonesia alone, palm oil production expanded from 600,000 hectares in 1985 to over 6 million hectares by 2007."
Lots of other large numbers in that article as well.
It seems pretty hard to get anything without palm oil in now. I made some dauphinoise potatoes the other day using Oatly which is an oat based dairy substitute because we have someone coming for dinner who can't have dairy. Even on that palm oil is one of the ingredients.
I've been lucky enough in my life to see Orangutans in the wild in Borneo. Will my kids or their kids get to say the same? It's not a diverse animal, it lives there and nowhere else.
SB |
This is bigger than orangutans Stokie!
The amount of deforestation resulting from meat production and soya to feed factory farmed beef totally dwarfs this but might make a bigger dent in Iceland's profitability. |  |
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| That Iceland palm oil thing....... on 09:53 - Nov 21 with 3097 views | StokieBlue |
| That Iceland palm oil thing....... on 09:44 - Nov 21 by BanksterDebtSlave |
This is bigger than orangutans Stokie!
The amount of deforestation resulting from meat production and soya to feed factory farmed beef totally dwarfs this but might make a bigger dent in Iceland's profitability. |
Doesn't mean they shouldn't look to tackle this single issue in isolation which might be achievable.
Wasn't the Iceland beef lasagne made with horses?
SB [Post edited 21 Nov 2018 9:54]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| That Iceland palm oil thing....... on 10:03 - Nov 21 with 3078 views | footers |
| That Iceland palm oil thing....... on 10:01 - Nov 21 by Keno |
so basically if we kill off all the farm animals it will save the planet? |
*humans | |
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| That Iceland palm oil thing....... on 10:15 - Nov 21 with 3049 views | monytowbray |
| That Iceland palm oil thing....... on 09:59 - Nov 21 by Swansea_Blue |
Doesn't that miss the point again? Yes it's a valid point that overall livestock farming has the larger footprint, but we shouldn't be playing one off against the other imo. Palm oil is a particular problem in SE Asia with specific impacts on creatures that only live there. We should act. As we should raise the message about the impact of livestock farming too of course. Let's do both.
Besides it's easy to understand the reasons why the Iceland ad got attention - fluffy baby orangutans pull at the heart strings and people feel outraged that it's been pulled from broadcast. |
The reason we are stretched too thin is because it’s easier to share viral FB videos about plastic straws and palm oil whilst ignoring the biggest human action threatening the very survival of our planet. McDonalds are p1ssing themselves seeing everyone praise them for camaigning for less plastic straws whilst gobbling down their burgers.
Right now many of these mainstream environmental campaigns are like trying to fix your garden fence that got blown over whilst ignoring the fact your entire house is on fire. If people ate less meat and we got that under control we’d be in a much better position to then tackle the smaller issues being caused by palm oil and soy. |  |
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| That Iceland palm oil thing....... on 10:20 - Nov 21 with 3038 views | monytowbray |
| That Iceland palm oil thing....... on 10:01 - Nov 21 by Keno |
so basically if we kill off all the farm animals it will save the planet? |
Yes. If we stopped breeding animals for food we’d be better off. | |
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| That Iceland palm oil thing....... on 10:23 - Nov 21 with 3031 views | Keno |
| That Iceland palm oil thing....... on 10:20 - Nov 21 by monytowbray |
Yes. If we stopped breeding animals for food we’d be better off. |
so we stop eating the ones are alive now what do we do with them all? |  |
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| That Iceland palm oil thing....... on 10:26 - Nov 21 with 3017 views | monytowbray |
| That Iceland palm oil thing....... on 10:23 - Nov 21 by Keno |
so we stop eating the ones are alive now what do we do with them all? |
A cow would be a fun pet. | |
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| That Iceland palm oil thing....... on 10:30 - Nov 21 with 3006 views | itfcjoe |
| That Iceland palm oil thing....... on 10:15 - Nov 21 by monytowbray |
The reason we are stretched too thin is because it’s easier to share viral FB videos about plastic straws and palm oil whilst ignoring the biggest human action threatening the very survival of our planet. McDonalds are p1ssing themselves seeing everyone praise them for camaigning for less plastic straws whilst gobbling down their burgers.
Right now many of these mainstream environmental campaigns are like trying to fix your garden fence that got blown over whilst ignoring the fact your entire house is on fire. If people ate less meat and we got that under control we’d be in a much better position to then tackle the smaller issues being caused by palm oil and soy. |
What would you suggest is best way to spread the message? Genuinely.
I do think that there is an overload of information on plant based diets, and it soon descends into confrontation - should there be a serious body trying to push people to reduce meat intake, and to get better quality of meat as an initial step to turning the tanker round? | |
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| That Iceland palm oil thing....... on 10:34 - Nov 21 with 2995 views | MattinLondon |
| That Iceland palm oil thing....... on 10:26 - Nov 21 by monytowbray |
A cow would be a fun pet. |
But makes a much better steak. |  | | |
| That Iceland palm oil thing....... on 11:02 - Nov 21 with 2948 views | CoachRob |
When Donella Meadows co-authored The Limits the Growth in 1972 it was hammered by business, economists even lefties, looks like the modelling was pretty sound (systems dynamics) and politicians need to wake up.
Free copy here for those interested... https://www.clubofrome.org/report/the-limits-to-growth/ |  | | |
| That Iceland palm oil thing....... on 11:27 - Nov 21 with 2908 views | Lord_Lucan |
| That Iceland palm oil thing....... on 09:44 - Nov 21 by BanksterDebtSlave |
This is bigger than orangutans Stokie!
The amount of deforestation resulting from meat production and soya to feed factory farmed beef totally dwarfs this but might make a bigger dent in Iceland's profitability. |
I would seriously consider a couple of meat free days in order to save the planet but.........and this is a serious question, can I have cheese, eggs and milk? |  |
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| That Iceland palm oil thing....... on 11:35 - Nov 21 with 2889 views | GeoffSentence |
Doesn't have to be ll or nothing does it?
In fact since dealing with all the worlds problems is impossible, do nothing is the inevitable result of your position.
Better that they try do something about something. |  |
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| That Iceland palm oil thing....... on 11:39 - Nov 21 with 2884 views | No9 |
Another example of how 'markets' have failed.
There is no need to chop down the wild jungle to graze cattle, there are tens of thousands of empty meadows and grazing lands in the Uk alone.
It is laying idle because market makers don't want to have the large numbers of cattle which would lower the current price. Same as the fact there is no culling of deer and shot pheasants get burned rather than going for human consumption.
Corporate greed winning again.
As far as growing palm trees for oil is concerend Malaysia is ruining environment |  | | |
| The palm oil dilemma on 11:53 - Nov 21 with 2861 views | factual_blue |
Vegetarian suet has palm oil in it. Beef suet = one dead cow. |  |
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| That Iceland palm oil thing....... on 11:53 - Nov 21 with 2860 views | Lord_Lucan |
| That Iceland palm oil thing....... on 11:39 - Nov 21 by No9 |
Another example of how 'markets' have failed.
There is no need to chop down the wild jungle to graze cattle, there are tens of thousands of empty meadows and grazing lands in the Uk alone.
It is laying idle because market makers don't want to have the large numbers of cattle which would lower the current price. Same as the fact there is no culling of deer and shot pheasants get burned rather than going for human consumption.
Corporate greed winning again.
As far as growing palm trees for oil is concerend Malaysia is ruining environment |
Hi No9
You invited me over for dinner a few months ago if you remember.
Anyhow, I can't make it but I thought I might drop a couple of cows round for a few months to graze on your lawn. | |
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| That Iceland palm oil thing....... on 12:17 - Nov 21 with 2824 views | J2BLUE |
Fair point but there's a few things to consider here:
Iceland are leading this campaign. To my knowledge no other supermarket has made this vow. No one would have expected Iceland to do this. These things tend to trickle down from the most expensive supermarkets to the least expensive.
Iceland are also going plastic free by 2023. Again, to my knowledge, they are the only supermarket to make this pledge.
Their campaigns are putting massive pressure on the other supermarkets. Maybe they are focusing on some winnable battles first. Maybe in 5 years they'll have an advert along the lines of 'remember how much you cared about this? Well here's a problem 100x bigger'.
This is vegans' biggest problem IMO. It's so black and white. You say stop stocking rather than increase their plant based range. Callis says give up animal products rather than cut down. I've said for ages that it comes across like most vegans would rather one person went vegan than 100 go vegetarian or have two days a week with no animal products. |  |
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