| Murder on North Sentinel Island 13:37 - Nov 22 with 6210 views | GlasgowBlue |
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/21/asia/andaman-nicobar-us-missionary-killed-int
Not sure if this has been covered but what do TWTD folk make of this?
I understand that the bloke knew the risk when he trespassed on an Island that has decided to cut itself off from the modern world but would we expect our government to put pressure on India to take action if this was British backpacker who travelled there on his gap year?
I'm torn on this. |  |
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| Murder on North Sentinel Island on 13:47 - Nov 22 with 3919 views | Weekender |
I have no sympathy for him. family said he has nothing but love for the tribes but clearly not enough love to prevent him potentially exposing them to diseases they have no immunity to. Its illegal to go anywhere near them but he obviously he decided the law didn't apply to him. selfish idiot. |  |
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| Murder on North Sentinel Island on 13:49 - Nov 22 with 3913 views | Swansea_Blue |
He knew the risks
He was there illegally, and knew it
He'd tried twice before and been driven off
I can't help but feel he deserves, ironically, a Darwin Award. |  |
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| Murder on North Sentinel Island on 13:49 - Nov 22 with 3904 views | Herbivore |
I'm not really torn on it, it was his own fault. He knew not to go there but went anyway and the outcome was grimly predictable. The tribe are meant to be left well alone and that ought to continue. |  |
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| Murder on North Sentinel Island on 13:50 - Nov 22 with 3906 views | m14_blue |
I’m not torn at all, he’s entirely to blame.
I absolutely would not expect our government to act if it was a British backpacker, in fact I’d be horrified if they did. |  | | |
| Murder on North Sentinel Island on 13:51 - Nov 22 with 3905 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Murder on North Sentinel Island on 13:47 - Nov 22 by Weekender |
I have no sympathy for him. family said he has nothing but love for the tribes but clearly not enough love to prevent him potentially exposing them to diseases they have no immunity to. Its illegal to go anywhere near them but he obviously he decided the law didn't apply to him. selfish idiot. |
I have no sympathy for him and he put the Islanders at risk as they have no immunisation against 21st century ailments. But at the same time, if we excuse murder based on a tribe's decision to not engage with the modern world then do we excuse the same from one of these USA crackpot religious groups who cut themselves off from civilisation? | |
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| Murder on North Sentinel Island on 13:58 - Nov 22 with 3868 views | m14_blue |
| Murder on North Sentinel Island on 13:51 - Nov 22 by GlasgowBlue |
I have no sympathy for him and he put the Islanders at risk as they have no immunisation against 21st century ailments. But at the same time, if we excuse murder based on a tribe's decision to not engage with the modern world then do we excuse the same from one of these USA crackpot religious groups who cut themselves off from civilisation? |
That’s not the same thing at all. | | | |
| Murder on North Sentinel Island on 14:00 - Nov 22 with 3865 views | stig4532 |
Darwin's law. |  | | |
| Murder on North Sentinel Island on 14:01 - Nov 22 with 3861 views | Weekender |
| Murder on North Sentinel Island on 13:51 - Nov 22 by GlasgowBlue |
I have no sympathy for him and he put the Islanders at risk as they have no immunisation against 21st century ailments. But at the same time, if we excuse murder based on a tribe's decision to not engage with the modern world then do we excuse the same from one of these USA crackpot religious groups who cut themselves off from civilisation? |
Different scenarios for me. They have no sense of society/law and order other than their own. To them they are protecting themselves from a potentially mortal invading threat. Their perspective is bound to be influenced by colonial Britain reducing their number from 1000's to 100's.
A religious group in america would know how law/order works but would be choosing to ignore it. | |
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| Murder on North Sentinel Island on 14:02 - Nov 22 with 3852 views | Lord_Lucan |
Send Trump over to sort it out. |  |
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| Murder on North Sentinel Island on 14:04 - Nov 22 with 3832 views | Herbivore |
| Murder on North Sentinel Island on 13:51 - Nov 22 by GlasgowBlue |
I have no sympathy for him and he put the Islanders at risk as they have no immunisation against 21st century ailments. But at the same time, if we excuse murder based on a tribe's decision to not engage with the modern world then do we excuse the same from one of these USA crackpot religious groups who cut themselves off from civilisation? |
You're comparing apples and snow boots. | |
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| Murder on North Sentinel Island on 14:10 - Nov 22 with 3816 views | Keno |
That’s the most long winded Natalie Imbuglia (so) tribute post I’ve ever seen |  |
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| Murder on North Sentinel Island on 14:18 - Nov 22 with 3797 views | Guthrum |
| Murder on North Sentinel Island on 13:51 - Nov 22 by GlasgowBlue |
I have no sympathy for him and he put the Islanders at risk as they have no immunisation against 21st century ailments. But at the same time, if we excuse murder based on a tribe's decision to not engage with the modern world then do we excuse the same from one of these USA crackpot religious groups who cut themselves off from civilisation? |
Key difference is that the US survivalists have unilaterally withdrawn from society while continuing to live within its territory, while the North Sentinelese have never (at least not within known history) been incorporated into the wider world.
The local authorities regard them as sovreign and independent.
The death of a traveller (there is some question over his missionary status) could be used as a causus belli - and often was historically. However, that would not be considered ethical nowadays. Plus the bloke (and the fishermen who transported him) knew their actions were illegal and had previously nearly always ended with fatalities. |  |
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| Murder on North Sentinel Island on 14:22 - Nov 22 with 3782 views | footers |
He'll be a martyr now, so win win I guess. |  |
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| Murder on North Sentinel Island on 14:24 - Nov 22 with 3784 views | Guthrum |
Interesting thing: The language they speak is completely unknown and unintelligible even to natives of other islands in the same area. [Post edited 22 Nov 2018 14:31]
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| Murder on North Sentinel Island on 14:27 - Nov 22 with 3765 views | TIB |
India took no action against some fisherman they killed in 2006 and this should be treated the same. There's not much left on this planet untouched / unspoilt by us and whilst the tribe is amazing, the laws and warnings are there to preserve them...if you do the crime, you do the time, just in this case, the "time" is death but I can't help but feel his religious beliefs perhaps blurred his vision of how he thought his plans would go. |  |
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| Murder on North Sentinel Island on 14:31 - Nov 22 with 3752 views | Ryorry |
| Murder on North Sentinel Island on 14:00 - Nov 22 by stig4532 |
Darwin's law. |
Exactly - 'survival of the fittest' etc - you'd have to be a very stupid, disrespectful, arrogant law-breaker to go there at all, never mind in a proselytizing role. |  |
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| Murder on North Sentinel Island on 14:34 - Nov 22 with 3747 views | IpswichKnight |
| Murder on North Sentinel Island on 14:24 - Nov 22 by Guthrum |
Interesting thing: The language they speak is completely unknown and unintelligible even to natives of other islands in the same area. [Post edited 22 Nov 2018 14:31]
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Think I read a few words are similar to other indigenous languages but itis only a few words, no one has successfully communicated with them. Closet was in 1991 when an Indian anthropologist managed to get them to take some Coconuts and fish without them shooting arrows or trying to stab them.
The Indian government checked up on them after the 2004 Tsunami and found that they seemed to have increased in population and had suffered no effects from it.
If it wasn't for the scavenged iron from ship wrecks it would be like meeting our stone age ancestors. | | | |
| Murder on North Sentinel Island on 14:53 - Nov 22 with 3705 views | chicoazul |
Now that is what I call an immigration policy. |  |
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| Murder on North Sentinel Island on 14:57 - Nov 22 with 3694 views | Jonnosdreadlocks |
very much a 'local place for local people'. The Natives have always been very erm, hostile... |  |
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| Murder on North Sentinel Island on 15:42 - Nov 22 with 3629 views | XYZ |
| Murder on North Sentinel Island on 14:53 - Nov 22 by chicoazul |
Now that is what I call an immigration policy. |
Somewhere deep in 55 Tufton St a new immigration policy for post-Brexit, post united Ireland, post Scottish independence, Stone-Age-like England is being rapidly drawn up. | | | |
| Murder on North Sentinel Island on 15:49 - Nov 22 with 3609 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Murder on North Sentinel Island on 14:57 - Nov 22 by Jonnosdreadlocks |
very much a 'local place for local people'. The Natives have always been very erm, hostile... |
Bit like Narriddge |  |
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| Murder on North Sentinel Island on 15:59 - Nov 22 with 3574 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Murder on North Sentinel Island on 14:24 - Nov 22 by Guthrum |
Interesting thing: The language they speak is completely unknown and unintelligible even to natives of other islands in the same area. [Post edited 22 Nov 2018 14:31]
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Otherwise known as the Norfolk Principle! [Post edited 22 Nov 2018 16:07]
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| Murder on North Sentinel Island on 16:06 - Nov 22 with 3553 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Murder on North Sentinel Island on 13:51 - Nov 22 by GlasgowBlue |
I have no sympathy for him and he put the Islanders at risk as they have no immunisation against 21st century ailments. But at the same time, if we excuse murder based on a tribe's decision to not engage with the modern world then do we excuse the same from one of these USA crackpot religious groups who cut themselves off from civilisation? |
I think he was a fool, but that is a very good question. If that had occurred in most territories there would be a murder investigation in accordance to the local laws.
I know nothing about these islands, so with a bit of wiki-ing:
"The Andaman and Nicobar Administration stated in 2005 that they have no intention to interfere with the lifestyle or habitat of the Sentinelese and are not interested in pursuing any further contact with them or enforcing law on the island"
That should be the end of it, although it also states on wiki that even though the islands and it's people are seen as independent, legally they still aren't, as they haven't been declared an autonomous administrative division of India.
So it seems a bit of an interesting diplomatic quandary for the Americans. | |
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| Murder on North Sentinel Island on 16:16 - Nov 22 with 3525 views | giant_stow |
| Murder on North Sentinel Island on 16:06 - Nov 22 by Swansea_Blue |
I think he was a fool, but that is a very good question. If that had occurred in most territories there would be a murder investigation in accordance to the local laws.
I know nothing about these islands, so with a bit of wiki-ing:
"The Andaman and Nicobar Administration stated in 2005 that they have no intention to interfere with the lifestyle or habitat of the Sentinelese and are not interested in pursuing any further contact with them or enforcing law on the island"
That should be the end of it, although it also states on wiki that even though the islands and it's people are seen as independent, legally they still aren't, as they haven't been declared an autonomous administrative division of India.
So it seems a bit of an interesting diplomatic quandary for the Americans. |
There's nothing to pursue - as far as they're concerned he was trespassing / invading / a sodding alien!
In any case, who are they gonna charge with murder? |  |
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| Murder on North Sentinel Island on 16:22 - Nov 22 with 3516 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Murder on North Sentinel Island on 16:16 - Nov 22 by giant_stow |
There's nothing to pursue - as far as they're concerned he was trespassing / invading / a sodding alien!
In any case, who are they gonna charge with murder? |
Well yes, from their view, but legally the islands appear to still be under Indian law, and I'm sure the US could take issue with one of their citizens being murdered but the Indian authorities doing nothing about it.
Common sense says you're spot on - the local responsible authority has said previously it has no intention of enforcing the law on the island. But that's not a legal position (I don't think).
I'd have thought is an interesting diplomatic issue. But I'm also blissfully ignorant. | |
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