| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party 10:55 - Feb 7 with 44630 views | GlasgowBlue |
Who on here would vote for it?
This attack looks very coordinated this morning
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 12:15 - Feb 8 with 3303 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 12:03 - Feb 8 by wkj |
I was not wrong, I stated 1 opinion and 2 facts with 0 bias at any point.
My opinion is that the sample of the poll is rubbish, and subsequently applied that to many polls
Then I stated the fact that the opinion data was sourced (atleast in part) by the Times (Factually correct) and then the political bias of The Times (Factually correct)
I never once gave any indication that I thought those facts meant anything or did not mean anything.
So, no, I was not wrong. |
The opinion data was not sourced in part by the times. YouGov carried out the poll. The Times has zero involvement in the poll other than publishing the results.
Just as the Guardian has zero involvement in their polls which are also carried out by independent pollsters.
Jeez. | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 12:16 - Feb 8 with 3302 views | wkj |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 12:15 - Feb 8 by GlasgowBlue |
The opinion data was not sourced in part by the times. YouGov carried out the poll. The Times has zero involvement in the poll other than publishing the results.
Just as the Guardian has zero involvement in their polls which are also carried out by independent pollsters.
Jeez. |
I didn't mention the guardian, jeez |  |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 12:24 - Feb 8 with 3285 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 12:16 - Feb 8 by wkj |
I didn't mention the guardian, jeez |
You didn't. You mentioned the Times being a Conservative supporting newspaper, which was irrelevant. You then said that the Times had in part sourced the data.
Here is the Survation poll on behalf of the Daily Mail, which gives Labour a 1 point lead.
FYI The Daily Mail is also a Conservative supporting newspaper. Like the Yougov poll for the Times, the Mail had no involvement in sourcing the data.
You are either being deliberately being argumentative or completely thick. There is nothing in your past posts to suggest that you are thick so I'll assume you are looking for an argument for no other reason that being bored.
I'll leave you to it. [Post edited 8 Feb 2019 12:25]
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 12:25 - Feb 8 with 3281 views | footers |
Just noticed something about this breakaway faction that doesn't seem to make any sense. They all say they want to stand on a platform against Brexit but surely it's too late for that? If people found JC to be too left wing when he was elected leader, and they felt so strongly about both his leadership and Remain, why has it taken so long for this to happen? |  |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 12:26 - Feb 8 with 3277 views | wkj |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 12:24 - Feb 8 by GlasgowBlue |
You didn't. You mentioned the Times being a Conservative supporting newspaper, which was irrelevant. You then said that the Times had in part sourced the data.
Here is the Survation poll on behalf of the Daily Mail, which gives Labour a 1 point lead.
FYI The Daily Mail is also a Conservative supporting newspaper. Like the Yougov poll for the Times, the Mail had no involvement in sourcing the data.
You are either being deliberately being argumentative or completely thick. There is nothing in your past posts to suggest that you are thick so I'll assume you are looking for an argument for no other reason that being bored.
I'll leave you to it. [Post edited 8 Feb 2019 12:25]
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Im reporting you for being abusive. Do not call me thick, or even apply the possibility that I am, because I am being objective about data sources. [Post edited 8 Feb 2019 12:26]
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 12:37 - Feb 8 with 3244 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 12:26 - Feb 8 by wkj |
Im reporting you for being abusive. Do not call me thick, or even apply the possibility that I am, because I am being objective about data sources. [Post edited 8 Feb 2019 12:26]
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Oh dear. Suggesting that somebody is thick really isn't an abuse reporting issue. If that was the case then every Brixy thread would contain dozens of reports of abuse. I may well recvist some of them and follow your lead. If I did I know of one particular poster who would have his inbox clogged up with messages from Phil.
What I actually said was that there is nothing in your posts to suggest you are thick.
You are being a very silly and precious individual. I bid you good day. | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 12:38 - Feb 8 with 3239 views | BOjK |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 12:25 - Feb 8 by footers |
Just noticed something about this breakaway faction that doesn't seem to make any sense. They all say they want to stand on a platform against Brexit but surely it's too late for that? If people found JC to be too left wing when he was elected leader, and they felt so strongly about both his leadership and Remain, why has it taken so long for this to happen? |
Some people have been quoted as saying that they haven't left up until now, because they felt it would hinder the fight against (a hard) Brexit.
I don't know if they are right.
Generally people haven't left for a few reasons including
* Assuming the Corbyn project will fail and Labour will return to normality (the Tony Blair approach)
* Deciding to fight from within rather than leave and setup their own party (the John McDonnell approach)
* Cowardice and self-interest |  |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 12:41 - Feb 8 with 3235 views | Ryorry |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 09:21 - Feb 8 by GlasgowBlue |
Making people pay for their care if they had assets of over £100,000 had nothing to do with inheritance tax.
People with assets of over £100,000 would have deferred the payments until after their deaths which meant if they owned a house the government would have taken their cut so there wouldn’t have been much left over for their sons or daughters to inherit. |
Ah, I'd forgotten that, thanks for the memory-jog! |  |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 12:41 - Feb 8 with 3233 views | BOjK |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 09:45 - Feb 8 by GlasgowBlue |
3rd in a 2 horse race is some achievement. |
I note that the slow-but-steady movement in public opinion away from Leave to Remain continues.
Still, we can't vote again, as that would be undemocratic. | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 12:42 - Feb 8 with 3232 views | ZedRodgers |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 12:25 - Feb 8 by footers |
Just noticed something about this breakaway faction that doesn't seem to make any sense. They all say they want to stand on a platform against Brexit but surely it's too late for that? If people found JC to be too left wing when he was elected leader, and they felt so strongly about both his leadership and Remain, why has it taken so long for this to happen? |
Because they know there is no majority in the HoC for remain/2nd ref.
Saying that there would be with Labour's full support is a lame excuse too. Even if all Labour MPs were whipped to actively support a 2nd referendum, the Labour MPs who would vote against the whip would cancel out any Tory faux-rebels.
We are a very long way from a 2nd referendum vote being passed by the HoC as the recent amendments have proved. It's about time Chuka and Co. admit that and stop playing disingenuous games. |  |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 12:43 - Feb 8 with 3229 views | BOjK |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 12:26 - Feb 8 by wkj |
Im reporting you for being abusive. Do not call me thick, or even apply the possibility that I am, because I am being objective about data sources. [Post edited 8 Feb 2019 12:26]
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I don't know about any of that being thick stuff ... but you are wrong. | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 12:44 - Feb 8 with 3223 views | wkj |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 12:37 - Feb 8 by GlasgowBlue |
Oh dear. Suggesting that somebody is thick really isn't an abuse reporting issue. If that was the case then every Brixy thread would contain dozens of reports of abuse. I may well recvist some of them and follow your lead. If I did I know of one particular poster who would have his inbox clogged up with messages from Phil.
What I actually said was that there is nothing in your posts to suggest you are thick.
You are being a very silly and precious individual. I bid you good day. |
What I feel is abusive in this case and how I chose to respond has no baring on who you interactive with, or indeed how you interact with them.
Debate happening on a busy forum in inevitable, it is a long standing belief I have held on here a lot of data is of poor quality, so I am not being argumentative as you implied that I was, i was remaining very objective and called the quality of data into question whilst remaining level headed and in no way emotive, and at no point was a snide comment made to you or even made any commentary about you as a person.
TLDR: If you want to have a civilised debate, then be civil [Post edited 8 Feb 2019 12:46]
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 12:49 - Feb 8 with 3205 views | chicoazul |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 11:46 - Feb 8 by GlasgowBlue |
I said 100+ seats. And that was based on my gut feeling rather than the polls, which at the time of the election had closed considerably in Labour's favour.
Re your second question. No. I said, and this is as close to the quote that I can remember, I would like Gove to be the next leader but he has a face that only a mother could love and would be a big turn off to the voters despite being the best man for the job.
Blimey, I've never seen so many people get defensive over some adverse polling. |
George Monbiot was writing about Gove today. Gove actually seems.....good? |  |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 12:51 - Feb 8 with 3197 views | chicoazul |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 12:26 - Feb 8 by wkj |
Im reporting you for being abusive. Do not call me thick, or even apply the possibility that I am, because I am being objective about data sources. [Post edited 8 Feb 2019 12:26]
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He literally said you don't seem thick. | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 12:51 - Feb 8 with 3190 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 12:41 - Feb 8 by BOjK |
I note that the slow-but-steady movement in public opinion away from Leave to Remain continues.
Still, we can't vote again, as that would be undemocratic. |
Remain are comfortably in the lead now but two things:
1. There is still no majority in the HOC or the country for a second referendum. There are still a sizeable number of remainers who are against a second referendum because they think it will undermine democracy.
2. Remain haven't really given up campaigning since the 2016 vote whereas leave have had their feet up. Remain have had a free run for nearly three years.
I still believe if there was another referendum with a mobilized leave campaign of Farage and the like constantly saying they are stealing your Brexit, leave would actually win again. [Post edited 8 Feb 2019 12:54]
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 12:54 - Feb 8 with 3166 views | chicoazul |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 12:41 - Feb 8 by BOjK |
I note that the slow-but-steady movement in public opinion away from Leave to Remain continues.
Still, we can't vote again, as that would be undemocratic. |
A 2nd vote would be a disaster as it would lead to a huge Leave victory and probably, a very hard Brexit. Every sensible Remainer should be against the possibility of it. The only way to stay/return to the EU would be for a pro-Remain party to win a GE. | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 12:55 - Feb 8 with 3162 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 12:51 - Feb 8 by chicoazul |
He literally said you don't seem thick. |
You are clever enough to understand that. | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 12:57 - Feb 8 with 3156 views | chicoazul |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 12:55 - Feb 8 by GlasgowBlue |
You are clever enough to understand that. |
It's almost as if people read what they want on this hellsite. | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 12:58 - Feb 8 with 3151 views | BOjK |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 12:51 - Feb 8 by GlasgowBlue |
Remain are comfortably in the lead now but two things:
1. There is still no majority in the HOC or the country for a second referendum. There are still a sizeable number of remainers who are against a second referendum because they think it will undermine democracy.
2. Remain haven't really given up campaigning since the 2016 vote whereas leave have had their feet up. Remain have had a free run for nearly three years.
I still believe if there was another referendum with a mobilized leave campaign of Farage and the like constantly saying they are stealing your Brexit, leave would actually win again. [Post edited 8 Feb 2019 12:54]
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1. Completely agree. Another referendum isn't happening. It will be interesting to see what if any backlash Corbyn faces from within as a result.
2. I'm not sure I agree with this. There isn't a serious movement to stop Brexit in the Commons other than a handful of MPs.
Regarding a second referendum ... it would have to (imo) be a referendum on whatever deal is passed by the Commons. Then the leave campaign would have to defend whatever compromises have been made.
Just repeating in/out like we did last time where leave could promise a pain-free full-single-market-cake-and-eat-it-unicorn-fantasy Brexit would lead to the same result I think. Having to defend something tangible is much harder I suspect.
But it'll never happen. | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 12:59 - Feb 8 with 3146 views | footers |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 12:49 - Feb 8 by chicoazul |
George Monbiot was writing about Gove today. Gove actually seems.....good? |
Monbiot is an odd one. Sometimes I think he's spot on, but other times his views are quite strange and extreme, drawing a lot of ire from different sections of environmentalists.
As for Gove, there's no doubt he's an intelligent man but GB has it right in that he probably wouldn't go down well with the general public.
Here he is on the naughty chair
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 12:59 - Feb 8 with 3144 views | Ryorry |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 12:54 - Feb 8 by chicoazul |
A 2nd vote would be a disaster as it would lead to a huge Leave victory and probably, a very hard Brexit. Every sensible Remainer should be against the possibility of it. The only way to stay/return to the EU would be for a pro-Remain party to win a GE. |
Maybe if this proposed breakaway Labour/centrist new party had "return to the EU" as the central pillar of their manifesto, they'd have immediately much larger appeal? Tho I'm guessing the terms of any re-entry by us to the EU would be much less favourable than we had before! | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 13:00 - Feb 8 with 3141 views | wkj |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 12:57 - Feb 8 by chicoazul |
It's almost as if people read what they want on this hellsite. |
Or that the post may have read a little differently before the edit | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 13:02 - Feb 8 with 3126 views | footers |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 12:59 - Feb 8 by Ryorry |
Maybe if this proposed breakaway Labour/centrist new party had "return to the EU" as the central pillar of their manifesto, they'd have immediately much larger appeal? Tho I'm guessing the terms of any re-entry by us to the EU would be much less favourable than we had before! |
Pah. In a few years Global Britain will dwarf the EU, despite their obvious jealous attempts to thwart it. | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 13:04 - Feb 8 with 3119 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 12:58 - Feb 8 by BOjK |
1. Completely agree. Another referendum isn't happening. It will be interesting to see what if any backlash Corbyn faces from within as a result.
2. I'm not sure I agree with this. There isn't a serious movement to stop Brexit in the Commons other than a handful of MPs.
Regarding a second referendum ... it would have to (imo) be a referendum on whatever deal is passed by the Commons. Then the leave campaign would have to defend whatever compromises have been made.
Just repeating in/out like we did last time where leave could promise a pain-free full-single-market-cake-and-eat-it-unicorn-fantasy Brexit would lead to the same result I think. Having to defend something tangible is much harder I suspect.
But it'll never happen. |
I had floated the idea of a three way referendum which would knock out third place and use second preference. It was 1. Remain 2. The Deal 3. No Deal.
But that was over a year ago and having given it more thought it's probably weighed in favour of leave.
I still think level heads will prevail and we will leave with either May's deal or a Norway type deal. | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 13:07 - Feb 8 with 3108 views | BOjK |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 12:54 - Feb 8 by chicoazul |
A 2nd vote would be a disaster as it would lead to a huge Leave victory and probably, a very hard Brexit. Every sensible Remainer should be against the possibility of it. The only way to stay/return to the EU would be for a pro-Remain party to win a GE. |
No it wouldn't. I think the vote should be
1) Accept whatever leave terms have been negotiated with the EU and passed by parliament
vs
2) Remain
Having another referendum wouldn't alter the terms of leaving at all, merely confirm that when presented with the realities, rather than fantasies people were still minded to proceed.
A competent opposition would have questioned whether the criminal behaviour of both leave campaigns and the change in public sentiment since the referendum would of themselves justify a confirmatory plebiscite, but we have what we have. | |
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