| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party 10:55 - Feb 7 with 44632 views | GlasgowBlue |
Who on here would vote for it?
This attack looks very coordinated this morning
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 19:40 - Feb 7 with 3100 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 19:38 - Feb 7 by BackToRussia |
That genuinely made me laugh... to know that's what you go around thinking. "Triggered", as the yout say. |
It was intended to make you laugh and no I don't genuinely think that. McDonnell will have Jezza shot in the head at cabinet within a year before producing a letter signed by Jezza naming him as his heir*.
*I don't actually think this either. | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 19:42 - Feb 7 with 3089 views | BackToRussia |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 19:40 - Feb 7 by GlasgowBlue |
It was intended to make you laugh and no I don't genuinely think that. McDonnell will have Jezza shot in the head at cabinet within a year before producing a letter signed by Jezza naming him as his heir*.
*I don't actually think this either. |
See, you're all bluster. You like me really.
I'm all up for a bit of Stalinist self destruction if it means we're back in. |  |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 19:45 - Feb 7 with 3084 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 19:42 - Feb 7 by BackToRussia |
See, you're all bluster. You like me really.
I'm all up for a bit of Stalinist self destruction if it means we're back in. |
I'd like you more if you dropped the inflammatory statements regarding the IRA. | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 20:02 - Feb 7 with 3068 views | Herbivore |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 19:40 - Feb 7 by BackToRussia |
I know it's not a big lead but they have been polling 5/6+ points ahead except in the YouGov polls, notably. Surely you have to vote tactically if you think there is someone broadly aligned with your views? Not being forward, I don't vote if there's no one I deem worth voting for, but how do you intend to vote or not at all if not for Labour? |
Oh I'll vote Labour. |  |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 20:12 - Feb 7 with 3062 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 19:40 - Feb 7 by BackToRussia |
I know it's not a big lead but they have been polling 5/6+ points ahead except in the YouGov polls, notably. Surely you have to vote tactically if you think there is someone broadly aligned with your views? Not being forward, I don't vote if there's no one I deem worth voting for, but how do you intend to vote or not at all if not for Labour? |
Have they?
Ipsos/Mori has them neck and neck
YouGov has the Tories 7 points ahead
Opinium has the Tories 7 points ahead
and Survation has Labour one point ahead
And this is against the worst government in history who are in utter turmoil over Brexit.
At this stage in a parliament Ed Miliband was regularly polling ten point leads. [Post edited 7 Feb 2019 20:16]
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 20:16 - Feb 7 with 3055 views | Dubtractor |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 19:40 - Feb 7 by BackToRussia |
I know it's not a big lead but they have been polling 5/6+ points ahead except in the YouGov polls, notably. Surely you have to vote tactically if you think there is someone broadly aligned with your views? Not being forward, I don't vote if there's no one I deem worth voting for, but how do you intend to vote or not at all if not for Labour? |
Despite my reservations, I voted Labour last time and I would if there was an election tomorrow.
We'll be feeling the consequences of the current government's policies for years to come. |  |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 20:46 - Feb 7 with 3021 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 20:16 - Feb 7 by Dubtractor |
Despite my reservations, I voted Labour last time and I would if there was an election tomorrow.
We'll be feeling the consequences of the current government's policies for years to come. |
Disappointing. | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 20:56 - Feb 7 with 3007 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 20:46 - Feb 7 by GlasgowBlue |
Disappointing. |
You were hoping for decades to come then.....feeling your pain! |  |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 21:08 - Feb 7 with 2997 views | Footballpete |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 12:17 - Feb 7 by chicoazul |
Open borders are literally a Marxist dream and goal, along with one super-currency controlled centrally. The point about PFI which I assume is the one you are making is a fair one but in part this was done to change the way Govt debt was reported. |
“One super-currency controlled centrally” is the antithesis of Marxism. |  |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 22:03 - Feb 7 with 2970 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 20:12 - Feb 7 by GlasgowBlue |
Have they?
Ipsos/Mori has them neck and neck
YouGov has the Tories 7 points ahead
Opinium has the Tories 7 points ahead
and Survation has Labour one point ahead
And this is against the worst government in history who are in utter turmoil over Brexit.
At this stage in a parliament Ed Miliband was regularly polling ten point leads. [Post edited 7 Feb 2019 20:16]
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And this poll out today
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 22:04 - Feb 7 with 2969 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 20:02 - Feb 7 by Herbivore |
Oh I'll vote Labour. |
Not unexpected. [Post edited 7 Feb 2019 22:09]
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 22:12 - Feb 7 with 2947 views | footers |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 22:04 - Feb 7 by GlasgowBlue |
Not unexpected. [Post edited 7 Feb 2019 22:09]
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So you'll be clambering back into bed with your former party, I take it? |  |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 22:26 - Feb 7 with 2926 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 22:12 - Feb 7 by footers |
So you'll be clambering back into bed with your former party, I take it? |
certainly not. | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 22:37 - Feb 7 with 2919 views | footers |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 22:26 - Feb 7 by GlasgowBlue |
certainly not. |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 23:09 - Feb 7 with 2892 views | StokieBlue |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 22:03 - Feb 7 by GlasgowBlue |
And this poll out today
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You've got this all wrong.
Facts are lies, lies are facts.
You need to try harder.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 23:16 - Feb 7 with 2885 views | footers |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 23:09 - Feb 7 by StokieBlue |
You've got this all wrong.
Facts are lies, lies are facts.
You need to try harder.
SB |
Leaders do not election results make, SB. Labour will still poll well against the Tories, a leadership poll is a bit disingenuous. Of course without Corbyn Labour would fare better but I doubt he'll go into another GE. | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 23:50 - Feb 7 with 2856 views | StokieBlue |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 23:16 - Feb 7 by footers |
Leaders do not election results make, SB. Labour will still poll well against the Tories, a leadership poll is a bit disingenuous. Of course without Corbyn Labour would fare better but I doubt he'll go into another GE. |
My point was more on the general trend, I just quoted the last one because I was on the bus.
They were overall results rather than leadership polls.
On your point you are of course correct, although some metrics would be interesting as I suspect it's not as uncorrelated as you are making out.
SB [Post edited 7 Feb 2019 23:51]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 23:57 - Feb 7 with 2843 views | footers |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 23:50 - Feb 7 by StokieBlue |
My point was more on the general trend, I just quoted the last one because I was on the bus.
They were overall results rather than leadership polls.
On your point you are of course correct, although some metrics would be interesting as I suspect it's not as uncorrelated as you are making out.
SB [Post edited 7 Feb 2019 23:51]
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No, of course you're right- leaders do count. Although I'm still wondering about Major's GE victory on that score! | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 00:19 - Feb 8 with 2828 views | BackToRussia |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 20:12 - Feb 7 by GlasgowBlue |
Have they?
Ipsos/Mori has them neck and neck
YouGov has the Tories 7 points ahead
Opinium has the Tories 7 points ahead
and Survation has Labour one point ahead
And this is against the worst government in history who are in utter turmoil over Brexit.
At this stage in a parliament Ed Miliband was regularly polling ten point leads. [Post edited 7 Feb 2019 20:16]
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If you check leftist sites you'll find pollsters putting Labour ahead by a small margin, this was around the time Diane Abbott was on Question Time though so don't know if it's changed by now. But there are a LOT of poll companies it seems. | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 00:24 - Feb 8 with 2828 views | Ryorry |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 14:37 - Feb 7 by ZedRodgers |
I think these MPs are deliberately misrepresenting this and would agree that it's setting the tone for their bizarre and long time coming mini-exodus.
Tactically, Labour setting out a compromise that would divide the Conservative party to the core is at the very least understandable.
Those that are opposed to Brexit and simply want to remain seem happy to continuously ignore the fact that the numbers in HoC for reversing the result of the referendum just aren't there. Labour tabled amendments would pave the way for a 2nd referendum and for extending article 50 - Both were firmly rejected. The former was even voted down by the Tory faux-rebel Remainers.
'Stopping Brexit' is the result of something happening, not an action in itself. Whenever I press Remainers I know on how they see this being possible, it always comes back to the fact that they simply want the result of the referendum to be reversed. There is never any logical process behind it, just the empty rhetoric of 'stopping' or 'opposing' Brexit.
That being said, if this stalemate does result in a general election, Labour should campaign to extend article 50 and seek to negotiate a 'softer' deal that could win support of the house, then promise to put any negotiated deal to the public in a referendum. This is the only approach that would heal the divides that have left this entire debate so fractured.
Smith, Leslie, Umunna and Co. are bitter men that lack the foresight required in this situation.
Umunna in 2016:
"Remain campaigners must drop calls for new Brexit vote"
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/chuka-umunna-remain-campaigners-must-dr
Umunna in 2017:
"We should be prepared to sacrifice single market membership to axe freedom of movement"
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/chuka-umunna-single-market-free-movement-
Is it not their constant flim-flamming and empty rhetoric whining that has really paved the way for Brexit?
The sooner they leave, the better.
EDIT: From reading more of the thread, it seems that the same people who were criticising Labour/Corbyn for not engaging in talks (without no deal being taken off the table) when the withdrawal agreement was voted down, are the same people now criticising Labour for offering a compromise on their '6 tests'.
Spolier: Anything Labour does that isn't categorically saying "we are now campaigning to remain because Brexiteers are thick and we no better" will be considered as them facilitating or enabling Brexit. [Post edited 7 Feb 2019 14:59]
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"That being said, if this stalemate does result in a general election, Labour should campaign to extend article 50 and seek to negotiate a 'softer' deal that could win support of the house, then promise to put any negotiated deal to the public in a referendum. This is the only approach that would heal the divides that have left this entire debate so fractured."
Interesting, and probably the only situation that would have me voting Labour again while Corbyn's "leading" the party. |  |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 00:26 - Feb 8 with 2827 views | Ryorry |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 16:28 - Feb 7 by GlasgowBlue |
It wasn't the people who were ill that would have paid for their care. It was the people who were no longer going to get a windfall when their parents died by inheriting their homes. As I say, straight out of the Miliband playbook.
Also in the manifesto was an Ed Milband style cap on cap on energy prices plus higher spending on the NHS than Labour promised in their 2017 manifesto.
If you look beyond the headlines it was a most un-conservative manifesto and cost her the election. [Post edited 7 Feb 2019 16:28]
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"It was the people who were no longer going to get a windfall when their parents died by inheriting their homes."
I thought what was in the manifesto was a pledge to raise inheritance tax, not raise the threshold to 100% Govt takes all?! | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 00:33 - Feb 8 with 2822 views | Ryorry |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 19:01 - Feb 7 by gordon |
The Green Party might be big winners here - there's a lot of left-leaning, environmentally conscious voters, think Brexit is stupid any form, who may be looking for a new home. Possibly even some young people who were initially engaged in politics by the Corbyn 'revolution'.
The Tories surely will have a group split off too on the far right if a softer brexit goes through on the back of a significant number of labour votes. |
I'm afraid that for the first time ever, I'd not be able to vote Green right now, and from what I've seen on other platforms, many others feel the same. The Challoner issue, and supporting a second referendum very offputting. You could argue they (Greens) are no worse than other parties, but I expected better. Many politically homeless around of which I'm one, and I'd certainly back a new centre-left party (depending on policies of course). | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 09:12 - Feb 8 with 2726 views | chicoazul |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 21:08 - Feb 7 by Footballpete |
“One super-currency controlled centrally” is the antithesis of Marxism. |
Certainly not, if you believe that Marxism is about control, whether it be the means of production or anything else. |  |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 09:21 - Feb 8 with 2714 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 00:26 - Feb 8 by Ryorry |
"It was the people who were no longer going to get a windfall when their parents died by inheriting their homes."
I thought what was in the manifesto was a pledge to raise inheritance tax, not raise the threshold to 100% Govt takes all?! |
Making people pay for their care if they had assets of over £100,000 had nothing to do with inheritance tax.
People with assets of over £100,000 would have deferred the payments until after their deaths which meant if they owned a house the government would have taken their cut so there wouldn’t have been much left over for their sons or daughters to inherit. | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 09:22 - Feb 8 with 2713 views | Herbivore |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 09:12 - Feb 8 by chicoazul |
Certainly not, if you believe that Marxism is about control, whether it be the means of production or anything else. |
I don't think you've read any Marx, or even any Marx for Dummies type books. [Post edited 8 Feb 2019 9:59]
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