| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party 10:55 - Feb 7 with 44641 views | GlasgowBlue |
Who on here would vote for it?
This attack looks very coordinated this morning
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 16:12 - Feb 7 with 3489 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 16:08 - Feb 7 by itfcjoe |
Labour's manifesto just didn't make sense to me in a lot of ways with regards to how these things will be funded, and I don't agree with the necessity to try and privatise everything so quickly - it won't happen and I believe Labour will get hung up on it.
I'm probably centre left socially and centre right economically, and generally would have prescribed to the Orange Book side of the LD party. The Labour party with Corbyn in charge is way too far left for me,as is the way the Tories have gone since the LDs went from coalition, and especially under May with what they put out for the 2017 election as their manifesto. |
Actually May’s manifesto with the ‘Dementia tax’ at its heart was Milibandesque. That’s why so many of her core voters turned against her. | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 16:20 - Feb 7 with 3473 views | itfcjoe |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 16:12 - Feb 7 by GlasgowBlue |
Actually May’s manifesto with the ‘Dementia tax’ at its heart was Milibandesque. That’s why so many of her core voters turned against her. |
Whether it is Millibandesque or not, surely charging people who are ill rather than putting money into improving social care is a right wing policy?
She hardly made a play for the centre ground did she - cutting immigration, fox hunting, etc |  |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 16:22 - Feb 7 with 3465 views | ZedRodgers |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 16:08 - Feb 7 by itfcjoe |
Labour's manifesto just didn't make sense to me in a lot of ways with regards to how these things will be funded, and I don't agree with the necessity to try and privatise everything so quickly - it won't happen and I believe Labour will get hung up on it.
I'm probably centre left socially and centre right economically, and generally would have prescribed to the Orange Book side of the LD party. The Labour party with Corbyn in charge is way too far left for me,as is the way the Tories have gone since the LDs went from coalition, and especially under May with what they put out for the 2017 election as their manifesto. |
Forgive me if this comes across as condescending but in my opinion, the spending/taxation figures were quite transparent.
Spending (£b):
National Education Service and Early Years Schools: increasing funding, including protection against losses from the new funding formula, free school meals and arts pupil premium 6.3
Skills: introducing free FE tuition, equalising 16-19 funding and restoring EMA 2.5
Childcare and early years including more money for Sure Start 5.3
Removing university tuition fees and restoring maintenance grants 11.2
Healthcare including free car parking but excluding higher pay and capital expenditure 5.0
Social care 2.1
Restore nurses’ bursaries 0.6
Social security: increase ESA by £30pw for those in the work-related activity group, scrap bedroom tax, implement the PiP legal ruling, restore Housing Benefit for under 21s, scrap Bereavement Support Payment reforms, £2 billion of additional funding for Universal Credit for review of cuts and how best to reverse them, uprate Carers’ Allowance to the level of JSA 4.0
Double paternity pay and paternity leave 0.3
State pensions: uprate state pensions for British pensioners overseas, extending Pension Credit to those affected by changes to their state pension age since the 1995 Pensions Act 0.3
Lift public sector pay cap 4.0
Introduce a Real Living Wage of at least £10 by 2020 with net fiscal benefits ringfenced to provide support to small businesses 0.0
Recruit an additional 10,000 police officers to work on community beats 0.3
Other current spend items: including abolition of employment tribunal fees, additional border guards, firefighters and HMRC tax collection staff
0.6
Barnett consequentials (Scotland, Wales, NI) 6.1
TOTAL 48.6
Taxes (£b):
Corporation tax 19.4
Income tax increases for top 5 per cent 6.4
Excessive Pay Levy 1.3
Offshore Company Property Levy 1.6
Labour’s Tax Avoidance programme 6.5
Extension of Stamp Duty Reserve Tax to derivatives and removal of exemption 5.6
Efficiency review of corporate tax reliefs 3.8
Reversing tax giveaways on Capital Gains Tax, Inheritance Tax, bank levy and scrapping the married persons’ tax allowance 3.7
VAT on private school fees 1.6
Other: savings on Discretionary Housing Payments from scrapping bedroom tax, Soft Drinks Industry Levy spend redirected from capital to revenue, higher rate IPT on medical insurance, reform Controlled Foreign Companies corporation tax regime 2.6
Allowance made for additional behavioural change and uncertainty, reducing total tax take -3.9
TOTAL 48.6
I don't really understand what else you would want to see? Footnotes available here:
http://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Funding-Britains-Future.pdf |  |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 16:27 - Feb 7 with 3444 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 16:22 - Feb 7 by ZedRodgers |
Forgive me if this comes across as condescending but in my opinion, the spending/taxation figures were quite transparent.
Spending (£b):
National Education Service and Early Years Schools: increasing funding, including protection against losses from the new funding formula, free school meals and arts pupil premium 6.3
Skills: introducing free FE tuition, equalising 16-19 funding and restoring EMA 2.5
Childcare and early years including more money for Sure Start 5.3
Removing university tuition fees and restoring maintenance grants 11.2
Healthcare including free car parking but excluding higher pay and capital expenditure 5.0
Social care 2.1
Restore nurses’ bursaries 0.6
Social security: increase ESA by £30pw for those in the work-related activity group, scrap bedroom tax, implement the PiP legal ruling, restore Housing Benefit for under 21s, scrap Bereavement Support Payment reforms, £2 billion of additional funding for Universal Credit for review of cuts and how best to reverse them, uprate Carers’ Allowance to the level of JSA 4.0
Double paternity pay and paternity leave 0.3
State pensions: uprate state pensions for British pensioners overseas, extending Pension Credit to those affected by changes to their state pension age since the 1995 Pensions Act 0.3
Lift public sector pay cap 4.0
Introduce a Real Living Wage of at least £10 by 2020 with net fiscal benefits ringfenced to provide support to small businesses 0.0
Recruit an additional 10,000 police officers to work on community beats 0.3
Other current spend items: including abolition of employment tribunal fees, additional border guards, firefighters and HMRC tax collection staff
0.6
Barnett consequentials (Scotland, Wales, NI) 6.1
TOTAL 48.6
Taxes (£b):
Corporation tax 19.4
Income tax increases for top 5 per cent 6.4
Excessive Pay Levy 1.3
Offshore Company Property Levy 1.6
Labour’s Tax Avoidance programme 6.5
Extension of Stamp Duty Reserve Tax to derivatives and removal of exemption 5.6
Efficiency review of corporate tax reliefs 3.8
Reversing tax giveaways on Capital Gains Tax, Inheritance Tax, bank levy and scrapping the married persons’ tax allowance 3.7
VAT on private school fees 1.6
Other: savings on Discretionary Housing Payments from scrapping bedroom tax, Soft Drinks Industry Levy spend redirected from capital to revenue, higher rate IPT on medical insurance, reform Controlled Foreign Companies corporation tax regime 2.6
Allowance made for additional behavioural change and uncertainty, reducing total tax take -3.9
TOTAL 48.6
I don't really understand what else you would want to see? Footnotes available here:
http://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Funding-Britains-Future.pdf |
Well THAT will never fit on the side of a bus!
Would I vote for them? I'd maybe consider it if the voiceless Lib Dems don't stop being so utterly and totally voiceless. It would all depend on what ticket they stand on of course. |  |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 16:28 - Feb 7 with 3444 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 16:20 - Feb 7 by itfcjoe |
Whether it is Millibandesque or not, surely charging people who are ill rather than putting money into improving social care is a right wing policy?
She hardly made a play for the centre ground did she - cutting immigration, fox hunting, etc |
It wasn't the people who were ill that would have paid for their care. It was the people who were no longer going to get a windfall when their parents died by inheriting their homes. As I say, straight out of the Miliband playbook.
Also in the manifesto was an Ed Milband style cap on cap on energy prices plus higher spending on the NHS than Labour promised in their 2017 manifesto.
If you look beyond the headlines it was a most un-conservative manifesto and cost her the election. [Post edited 7 Feb 2019 16:28]
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 16:52 - Feb 7 with 3406 views | StokieBlue |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 16:22 - Feb 7 by ZedRodgers |
Forgive me if this comes across as condescending but in my opinion, the spending/taxation figures were quite transparent.
Spending (£b):
National Education Service and Early Years Schools: increasing funding, including protection against losses from the new funding formula, free school meals and arts pupil premium 6.3
Skills: introducing free FE tuition, equalising 16-19 funding and restoring EMA 2.5
Childcare and early years including more money for Sure Start 5.3
Removing university tuition fees and restoring maintenance grants 11.2
Healthcare including free car parking but excluding higher pay and capital expenditure 5.0
Social care 2.1
Restore nurses’ bursaries 0.6
Social security: increase ESA by £30pw for those in the work-related activity group, scrap bedroom tax, implement the PiP legal ruling, restore Housing Benefit for under 21s, scrap Bereavement Support Payment reforms, £2 billion of additional funding for Universal Credit for review of cuts and how best to reverse them, uprate Carers’ Allowance to the level of JSA 4.0
Double paternity pay and paternity leave 0.3
State pensions: uprate state pensions for British pensioners overseas, extending Pension Credit to those affected by changes to their state pension age since the 1995 Pensions Act 0.3
Lift public sector pay cap 4.0
Introduce a Real Living Wage of at least £10 by 2020 with net fiscal benefits ringfenced to provide support to small businesses 0.0
Recruit an additional 10,000 police officers to work on community beats 0.3
Other current spend items: including abolition of employment tribunal fees, additional border guards, firefighters and HMRC tax collection staff
0.6
Barnett consequentials (Scotland, Wales, NI) 6.1
TOTAL 48.6
Taxes (£b):
Corporation tax 19.4
Income tax increases for top 5 per cent 6.4
Excessive Pay Levy 1.3
Offshore Company Property Levy 1.6
Labour’s Tax Avoidance programme 6.5
Extension of Stamp Duty Reserve Tax to derivatives and removal of exemption 5.6
Efficiency review of corporate tax reliefs 3.8
Reversing tax giveaways on Capital Gains Tax, Inheritance Tax, bank levy and scrapping the married persons’ tax allowance 3.7
VAT on private school fees 1.6
Other: savings on Discretionary Housing Payments from scrapping bedroom tax, Soft Drinks Industry Levy spend redirected from capital to revenue, higher rate IPT on medical insurance, reform Controlled Foreign Companies corporation tax regime 2.6
Allowance made for additional behavioural change and uncertainty, reducing total tax take -3.9
TOTAL 48.6
I don't really understand what else you would want to see? Footnotes available here:
http://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Funding-Britains-Future.pdf |
There is a difference between being transparency and accuracy. I don’t think anyone would disagree with you that those are very transparent figures which is actually a very good starting point.
They have however proven to be inaccurate figures. Now to be fair I will say that at least Labour bothered to do a costings document which is more than the Tories bothered to do but let’s not hold them up as some form of infallible document which tends to happen quite a lot.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 16:53 - Feb 7 with 3399 views | BackToRussia |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 16:52 - Feb 7 by StokieBlue |
There is a difference between being transparency and accuracy. I don’t think anyone would disagree with you that those are very transparent figures which is actually a very good starting point.
They have however proven to be inaccurate figures. Now to be fair I will say that at least Labour bothered to do a costings document which is more than the Tories bothered to do but let’s not hold them up as some form of infallible document which tends to happen quite a lot.
SB |
Inaccurate how? Also people's main point of attack to Labour's manifesto at the time was that it wasn't costed, and that they believed in a magic money tree. I'm sure you didn't go along with such an ideological attack though. |  |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 17:38 - Feb 7 with 3369 views | BackToRussia |
So the government didn't think it was worth trying to be transparent with the public and Labour did. And they were out by a few billion on a budget worth 772 billion. You can probably borrow the rest, that's capitalism. Pas mal. In terms of economic planning they make the Tories look like me. | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 18:07 - Feb 7 with 3355 views | StokieBlue |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 16:53 - Feb 7 by BackToRussia |
Inaccurate how? Also people's main point of attack to Labour's manifesto at the time was that it wasn't costed, and that they believed in a magic money tree. I'm sure you didn't go along with such an ideological attack though. |
Nice rewritting of history there but it's not the first time.
The main point of criticism was the the numbers were incorrect, not that it wasn't costed. They actually got praise for trying but incorrect costings are technically the same as not being costed at the fundamental level.
As for inaccurate, you can find that it yourself anywhere on the interwebs.
Nice little attack at the end there though, you really are quite a nasty piece of work.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 18:10 - Feb 7 with 3352 views | BackToRussia |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 18:07 - Feb 7 by StokieBlue |
Nice rewritting of history there but it's not the first time.
The main point of criticism was the the numbers were incorrect, not that it wasn't costed. They actually got praise for trying but incorrect costings are technically the same as not being costed at the fundamental level.
As for inaccurate, you can find that it yourself anywhere on the interwebs.
Nice little attack at the end there though, you really are quite a nasty piece of work.
SB |
For calling it an ideological attack? You mean exactly what you accused me of the other day? Give it but can't take it eh | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 18:41 - Feb 7 with 3330 views | Dubtractor |
Would I vote for it?
I'd think about it for sure, but all too hypothetical as it stands.
I like a lot of what Corbyn stands for, but far from convinced by everything I've read and heard from him. |  |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 18:44 - Feb 7 with 3327 views | Herbivore |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 18:41 - Feb 7 by Dubtractor |
Would I vote for it?
I'd think about it for sure, but all too hypothetical as it stands.
I like a lot of what Corbyn stands for, but far from convinced by everything I've read and heard from him. |
I'd be more interested in a genuinely socialist or communist party. Modern society is fooked, we need radical overhaul rather than tinkering at the edges. A centrist party will do naff all to make any meaningful difference. |  |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 19:01 - Feb 7 with 3315 views | BackToRussia |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 18:44 - Feb 7 by Herbivore |
I'd be more interested in a genuinely socialist or communist party. Modern society is fooked, we need radical overhaul rather than tinkering at the edges. A centrist party will do naff all to make any meaningful difference. |
Corbyn is a socialist. That he's in control of the largest leftist party should be enough to vote for him. Otherwise you're just waiting for a revolution that won't happen. | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 19:01 - Feb 7 with 3314 views | gordon |
The Green Party might be big winners here - there's a lot of left-leaning, environmentally conscious voters, think Brexit is stupid any form, who may be looking for a new home. Possibly even some young people who were initially engaged in politics by the Corbyn 'revolution'.
The Tories surely will have a group split off too on the far right if a softer brexit goes through on the back of a significant number of labour votes. |  | | |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 19:05 - Feb 7 with 3310 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 19:01 - Feb 7 by gordon |
The Green Party might be big winners here - there's a lot of left-leaning, environmentally conscious voters, think Brexit is stupid any form, who may be looking for a new home. Possibly even some young people who were initially engaged in politics by the Corbyn 'revolution'.
The Tories surely will have a group split off too on the far right if a softer brexit goes through on the back of a significant number of labour votes. |
I think the Greens will benefit from the youth vote finding out Jezza is a dyed in the wool Brexiteer.
But do they have anyone who can get them singing his or her name at Glasto? [Post edited 7 Feb 2019 19:06]
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 19:06 - Feb 7 with 3306 views | BackToRussia |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 19:01 - Feb 7 by gordon |
The Green Party might be big winners here - there's a lot of left-leaning, environmentally conscious voters, think Brexit is stupid any form, who may be looking for a new home. Possibly even some young people who were initially engaged in politics by the Corbyn 'revolution'.
The Tories surely will have a group split off too on the far right if a softer brexit goes through on the back of a significant number of labour votes. |
If we had AV then I'd vote Green. As it is, they will do nothing as usual. | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 19:08 - Feb 7 with 3302 views | Dubtractor |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 19:05 - Feb 7 by GlasgowBlue |
I think the Greens will benefit from the youth vote finding out Jezza is a dyed in the wool Brexiteer.
But do they have anyone who can get them singing his or her name at Glasto? [Post edited 7 Feb 2019 19:06]
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If I'm honest, his brexit stance is probably my biggest reservation about him. | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 19:16 - Feb 7 with 3290 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 19:08 - Feb 7 by Dubtractor |
If I'm honest, his brexit stance is probably my biggest reservation about him. |
I prefer his Brexit stance to his support of the IRA, Hamas, Hezbollah and antisemitism personally. | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 19:31 - Feb 7 with 3280 views | Herbivore |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 19:01 - Feb 7 by BackToRussia |
Corbyn is a socialist. That he's in control of the largest leftist party should be enough to vote for him. Otherwise you're just waiting for a revolution that won't happen. |
Corbyn says he's a socialist and shares some socialist ideals, sure. He's not a great leader though and is a bit of a bell. Him being part of but not leading a genuinely socialist party, which Labour isn't, would be better for all concerned. | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 19:33 - Feb 7 with 3278 views | BackToRussia |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 19:31 - Feb 7 by Herbivore |
Corbyn says he's a socialist and shares some socialist ideals, sure. He's not a great leader though and is a bit of a bell. Him being part of but not leading a genuinely socialist party, which Labour isn't, would be better for all concerned. |
I'd love to see that happen, but what odds? This is not a leftist leaning country. You have to take your moment. The dude's old, he'd hand over the reigns after a couple of years. Think about it. | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 19:36 - Feb 7 with 3273 views | Herbivore |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 19:33 - Feb 7 by BackToRussia |
I'd love to see that happen, but what odds? This is not a leftist leaning country. You have to take your moment. The dude's old, he'd hand over the reigns after a couple of years. Think about it. |
He's unelectable imo. Labour look miles from winning a GE and they are facing the weakest sitting government in history. | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 19:36 - Feb 7 with 3273 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 19:33 - Feb 7 by BackToRussia |
I'd love to see that happen, but what odds? This is not a leftist leaning country. You have to take your moment. The dude's old, he'd hand over the reigns after a couple of years. Think about it. |
They will still prop up his rotting corpse at parades in twenty years time, like the old Soviet leaders, just so the people believe he is still gloriously leading the country. | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 19:38 - Feb 7 with 3269 views | BackToRussia |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 19:36 - Feb 7 by GlasgowBlue |
They will still prop up his rotting corpse at parades in twenty years time, like the old Soviet leaders, just so the people believe he is still gloriously leading the country. |
That genuinely made me laugh... to know that's what you go around thinking. "Triggered", as the yout say. | |
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| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 19:40 - Feb 7 with 3262 views | BackToRussia |
| Looks like moderate Labour MP’s are about to form a new party on 19:36 - Feb 7 by Herbivore |
He's unelectable imo. Labour look miles from winning a GE and they are facing the weakest sitting government in history. |
I know it's not a big lead but they have been polling 5/6+ points ahead except in the YouGov polls, notably. Surely you have to vote tactically if you think there is someone broadly aligned with your views? Not being forward, I don't vote if there's no one I deem worth voting for, but how do you intend to vote or not at all if not for Labour? | |
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