| Cycling infrastructure on 19:43 - May 2 with 3906 views | Mullet |
Cyclists should be driven underground. |  |
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| Cycling infrastructure on 19:43 - May 2 with 3904 views | Lord_Lucan |
Wasn’t that a Boris idea? |  |
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| Cycling infrastructure on 19:47 - May 2 with 3897 views | bournemouthblue |
Education for cyclists and drivers certainly could be improved
There's an argument cyclists should do a test so they are compliant with the highway code.
Modern driving tests and teaching probably do accomodate cyclists better than in the past but it's quite clear some drivers to do not know the rules on rights of way, what constitutes a hazard etc.
I think in reality, there are some bits of road, crossings, narrower roads and busier roads which are frankly not safe for cyclists and they are better being on the pavement. There's a grey area here imho.
One advantage of being on a bike is that you can bend the rules a bit, the likelihood of being penalised is low provided you don't endanger others doing so. |  |
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| Cycling infrastructure on 19:57 - May 2 with 3881 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
Cyclists will always continue to get knocked off occasionally. thats part of being a road user. |  |
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| Cycling infrastructure on 20:10 - May 2 with 3866 views | eireblue |
Bring in the rule they have in many European countries, presumption of blame is on the driver of a vehicle. |  | | |
| Cycling infrastructure on 20:25 - May 2 with 3846 views | stonojnr |
| Cycling infrastructure on 19:47 - May 2 by bournemouthblue |
Education for cyclists and drivers certainly could be improved
There's an argument cyclists should do a test so they are compliant with the highway code.
Modern driving tests and teaching probably do accomodate cyclists better than in the past but it's quite clear some drivers to do not know the rules on rights of way, what constitutes a hazard etc.
I think in reality, there are some bits of road, crossings, narrower roads and busier roads which are frankly not safe for cyclists and they are better being on the pavement. There's a grey area here imho.
One advantage of being on a bike is that you can bend the rules a bit, the likelihood of being penalised is low provided you don't endanger others doing so. |
No theres alot of whataboutery about cyclists doing a test but most of us are actually motorists as well & we passed a driving test that everyone is more than happy means you can drive a multi tonne vehicle at upto 70mph and which is often capable of far in excess of that speed,for the rest of your life,no questions asked
I just apply the same learning and rules from a car to riding a bike. It would be far more sensible for everyone wanting to drive a car to be forced to take a cycling test instead first. |  | | |
| Cycling infrastructure on 20:36 - May 2 with 3827 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Cycling infrastructure on 20:25 - May 2 by stonojnr |
No theres alot of whataboutery about cyclists doing a test but most of us are actually motorists as well & we passed a driving test that everyone is more than happy means you can drive a multi tonne vehicle at upto 70mph and which is often capable of far in excess of that speed,for the rest of your life,no questions asked
I just apply the same learning and rules from a car to riding a bike. It would be far more sensible for everyone wanting to drive a car to be forced to take a cycling test instead first. |
Why don’t cyclists observe the rules they obey when driving a motor vehicle then?
Genuine question. | |
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| Cycling infrastructure on 20:44 - May 2 with 3817 views | davblue |
| Cycling infrastructure on 20:36 - May 2 by Lord_Lucan |
Why don’t cyclists observe the rules they obey when driving a motor vehicle then?
Genuine question. |
That is a massive issue.
In London I see cyclists going through red lights, Zebra crossings and when it’s green to cross the road for pedestrians very often. |  | | |
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| Cycling infrastructure on 20:49 - May 2 with 3788 views | gtsb |
| Cycling infrastructure on 20:44 - May 2 by davblue |
That is a massive issue.
In London I see cyclists going through red lights, Zebra crossings and when it’s green to cross the road for pedestrians very often. |
Whilst dressed as a Tour de France participant. |  | | |
| Cycling infrastructure on 20:50 - May 2 with 3791 views | Basuco |
| Cycling infrastructure on 19:57 - May 2 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Cyclists will always continue to get knocked off occasionally. thats part of being a road user. |
When I cycled 12 miles each way to work a good few years ago I had a very near miss with a car once a month and got hit by a car once a year, something has to be done to make cycling safer as motorist's are killing and injuring far too many pedestrians and cyclist's and just saying "I did not see them" is not a good enough. [Post edited 2 May 2019 20:53]
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| Cycling infrastructure on 20:54 - May 2 with 3765 views | eireblue |
| Cycling infrastructure on 20:44 - May 2 by davblue |
That is a massive issue.
In London I see cyclists going through red lights, Zebra crossings and when it’s green to cross the road for pedestrians very often. |
We haven’t had a decent cycling thread on here for years.
Back in the day I posted a couple of statistics from a couple of sources that demonstrated the percentage of rule breaking between car drivers and cyclists was about the same. | | | |
| Cycling infrastructure on 20:59 - May 2 with 3739 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Cycling infrastructure on 20:50 - May 2 by Basuco |
When I cycled 12 miles each way to work a good few years ago I had a very near miss with a car once a month and got hit by a car once a year, something has to be done to make cycling safer as motorist's are killing and injuring far too many pedestrians and cyclist's and just saying "I did not see them" is not a good enough. [Post edited 2 May 2019 20:53]
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I'm not condoning it, just being a realist.
Cyclists will get hit by cars, as will pedestrians, motorcyclists and other cars. Cyclists just happen to be the most vulnerable.
Some cyclists don't help themselves, but drivers need to be more careful too. | |
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| Cycling infrastructure on 21:02 - May 2 with 3720 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Cycling infrastructure on 20:10 - May 2 by eireblue |
Bring in the rule they have in many European countries, presumption of blame is on the driver of a vehicle. |
Doesn't seem to make much sense. | |
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| Cycling infrastructure on 21:04 - May 2 with 3716 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Cycling infrastructure on 20:44 - May 2 by davblue |
That is a massive issue.
In London I see cyclists going through red lights, Zebra crossings and when it’s green to cross the road for pedestrians very often. |
Yep, was nearly hit by a cyclist in London going through a red light. I was a pedestrian at the time. | |
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| Cycling infrastructure on 21:07 - May 2 with 3709 views | Basuco |
| Cycling infrastructure on 20:59 - May 2 by Marshalls_Mullet |
I'm not condoning it, just being a realist.
Cyclists will get hit by cars, as will pedestrians, motorcyclists and other cars. Cyclists just happen to be the most vulnerable.
Some cyclists don't help themselves, but drivers need to be more careful too. |
When I was cycling in France many years ago I noticed it was much safer and cars were giving more room and giving way, when I asked my French friends why they explained the law change to make the driver guilty of dangerous driving if in a collision with a cyclist or pedestrian unless they could prove themselves innocent. When I said I couldn't see this being introduced in England they replied "we were killing too many of our children". Hard to argue with that. | | | |
| Cycling infrastructure on 21:09 - May 2 with 3696 views | DistantBlue |
There is no quick fix here. Improving the cyclists situation in the UK (and yes, I do live in Holland) is all about infrastructure…..and new infrastructure takes time. But it does need serious commitment, although maybe not quiet as serious as in Stokie's original post. I am able to live in a Dutch town, where I have never owned a car, and do pretty much all my journey's of up to five miles on my bike. The reason for that is because it is safe to do so.
Safe routes for bikes is the key, both in and out of town. When I'm over in the UK I often travel along the A10 between Cambridge and Ely and see the makeshift arrangements for cyclists, one minute they're on a cycle track, next minute its the road and then a shared footpath and bike route. The moments when they are on the road on a grey, wet day in winter I hardly dare watch.
A proper, dedicated surface between the two towns in this example would surely:
a) make more people want to use the bike route
b) make the situation safer for all road users
It all costs money, I get that, but it has to be a rolling process that when a road is being dug up or redesigned proper consideration is given to doing it properly…..and not just half measures.
As for all the posts about cyclists behaving badly? Yes, we have those in NL too…….especially in Amsterdam as anyone who has visited will surely have noticed. But by getting the cyclists properly off the roads you do have so much less of that sort of aggravation in general. |  | | |
| Cycling infrastructure on 21:09 - May 2 with 3692 views | MVBlue |
| Cycling infrastructure on 20:50 - May 2 by Basuco |
When I cycled 12 miles each way to work a good few years ago I had a very near miss with a car once a month and got hit by a car once a year, something has to be done to make cycling safer as motorist's are killing and injuring far too many pedestrians and cyclist's and just saying "I did not see them" is not a good enough. [Post edited 2 May 2019 20:53]
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Modern progressive cultures have taken cycling to good levels.
Are we modern and progressive, or skint and stalling?
In Melbourne they had good cycle lanes in relatively back path type places, alongside railway lines and alongside creeks/canals. Those back street type thorough fares are the best place for them.
We’ll never be like Holland or Denmark with all ages on bikes, until they force vehicles in big cities to be level 5 automated and electric, maybe 15 years. |  |
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| Cycling infrastructure on 21:13 - May 2 with 3680 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Cycling infrastructure on 21:07 - May 2 by Basuco |
When I was cycling in France many years ago I noticed it was much safer and cars were giving more room and giving way, when I asked my French friends why they explained the law change to make the driver guilty of dangerous driving if in a collision with a cyclist or pedestrian unless they could prove themselves innocent. When I said I couldn't see this being introduced in England they replied "we were killing too many of our children". Hard to argue with that. |
It's a very rare occurrence for a child cyclist to be killed, and I think any blame needs to be evidence based.
Imagine if you were jailed for a child cyclist crossing without looking, but you couldn't prove your innocence? That just makes a tragic incident even worse for all parties.
I agree that drivers should be careful and give space, I don't agree with a presumption of guilt. [Post edited 2 May 2019 21:14]
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| Cycling infrastructure on 21:14 - May 2 with 3673 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Cycling infrastructure on 21:09 - May 2 by DistantBlue |
There is no quick fix here. Improving the cyclists situation in the UK (and yes, I do live in Holland) is all about infrastructure…..and new infrastructure takes time. But it does need serious commitment, although maybe not quiet as serious as in Stokie's original post. I am able to live in a Dutch town, where I have never owned a car, and do pretty much all my journey's of up to five miles on my bike. The reason for that is because it is safe to do so.
Safe routes for bikes is the key, both in and out of town. When I'm over in the UK I often travel along the A10 between Cambridge and Ely and see the makeshift arrangements for cyclists, one minute they're on a cycle track, next minute its the road and then a shared footpath and bike route. The moments when they are on the road on a grey, wet day in winter I hardly dare watch.
A proper, dedicated surface between the two towns in this example would surely:
a) make more people want to use the bike route
b) make the situation safer for all road users
It all costs money, I get that, but it has to be a rolling process that when a road is being dug up or redesigned proper consideration is given to doing it properly…..and not just half measures.
As for all the posts about cyclists behaving badly? Yes, we have those in NL too…….especially in Amsterdam as anyone who has visited will surely have noticed. But by getting the cyclists properly off the roads you do have so much less of that sort of aggravation in general. |
The thing about Amsterdam though is everyone rides those bone shakers with a bell, over here they cycle on pedal powered rockets.
Must admit I’m often in near death collisions in Amsterdam but I find trams the most dangerous obstacle | |
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| Cycling infrastructure on 21:16 - May 2 with 3664 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Cycling infrastructure on 21:09 - May 2 by DistantBlue |
There is no quick fix here. Improving the cyclists situation in the UK (and yes, I do live in Holland) is all about infrastructure…..and new infrastructure takes time. But it does need serious commitment, although maybe not quiet as serious as in Stokie's original post. I am able to live in a Dutch town, where I have never owned a car, and do pretty much all my journey's of up to five miles on my bike. The reason for that is because it is safe to do so.
Safe routes for bikes is the key, both in and out of town. When I'm over in the UK I often travel along the A10 between Cambridge and Ely and see the makeshift arrangements for cyclists, one minute they're on a cycle track, next minute its the road and then a shared footpath and bike route. The moments when they are on the road on a grey, wet day in winter I hardly dare watch.
A proper, dedicated surface between the two towns in this example would surely:
a) make more people want to use the bike route
b) make the situation safer for all road users
It all costs money, I get that, but it has to be a rolling process that when a road is being dug up or redesigned proper consideration is given to doing it properly…..and not just half measures.
As for all the posts about cyclists behaving badly? Yes, we have those in NL too…….especially in Amsterdam as anyone who has visited will surely have noticed. But by getting the cyclists properly off the roads you do have so much less of that sort of aggravation in general. |
Sensible post.
I guess the only way to make cycling safer for cyclists is to take them 'off the road' in a sense. | |
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| Cycling infrastructure on 21:22 - May 2 with 3633 views | footers |
Do you use the CS1 (?) thing, SB?
I meandered up it from L'pool St to Dalston the other day and must say it looked very good during rush hour. Maybe 20-30 cyclists going along in little groupettes at a time.
That's something they should certainly roll out more where possible but given London is such an ancient and odd city I'm not sure how that would work.
That said, some kamikaze cycle courier nearly ran me over today when crossing on a green light. Either obey the rules or don't complain when you get whacked by a lorry! |  |
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| Cycling infrastructure on 21:24 - May 2 with 3623 views | TractorWood |
| Cycling infrastructure on 21:16 - May 2 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Sensible post.
I guess the only way to make cycling safer for cyclists is to take them 'off the road' in a sense. |
Cambridge is decent because cycling is given preference when developing. The quality of cycle lanes, paths etc is excellent. However, out in the sticks I'm very aggressive in road position and telling cars behind it's not safe to pass. As others have said, if you don't, you end up having near misses every time you stick the lycra on because some bloke is running late and can't wait 7 seconds to pass safely. |  |
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| Cycling infrastructure on 21:24 - May 2 with 3621 views | Basuco |
| Cycling infrastructure on 21:13 - May 2 by Marshalls_Mullet |
It's a very rare occurrence for a child cyclist to be killed, and I think any blame needs to be evidence based.
Imagine if you were jailed for a child cyclist crossing without looking, but you couldn't prove your innocence? That just makes a tragic incident even worse for all parties.
I agree that drivers should be careful and give space, I don't agree with a presumption of guilt. [Post edited 2 May 2019 21:14]
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Pedestrian and cyclist's being injured and killed by motorist's has decreased significantly in France after the introduction of this law, the motorist is in control of the lethal weapon and presumed guilt makes you focus much more on other road users. I cycle much less these days and drive a lot more so am speaking as a motorist who would like to see many more people out of cars leaving more road space for me. Also encouraging drivers to open the drivers door with their left hand would help them to look for a cyclist coming past before opening the door. (that happened to me once I hit the door went over the handle bars and laid in the road as cars screeched to a halt, bit scary at the time. | | | |
| Cycling infrastructure on 21:34 - May 2 with 3568 views | Basuco |
| Cycling infrastructure on 21:22 - May 2 by footers |
Do you use the CS1 (?) thing, SB?
I meandered up it from L'pool St to Dalston the other day and must say it looked very good during rush hour. Maybe 20-30 cyclists going along in little groupettes at a time.
That's something they should certainly roll out more where possible but given London is such an ancient and odd city I'm not sure how that would work.
That said, some kamikaze cycle courier nearly ran me over today when crossing on a green light. Either obey the rules or don't complain when you get whacked by a lorry! |
I used CS3 for 3 month's and the two big problems were pedestrians walking on the cycle path with headphones on and not looking and a huge variation of cycle speeds on the cycle path, but in general they are very good and very safe. | | | |
| Cycling infrastructure on 21:37 - May 2 with 3560 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Cycling infrastructure on 20:36 - May 2 by Lord_Lucan |
Why don’t cyclists observe the rules they obey when driving a motor vehicle then?
Genuine question. |
Because they don't have registration plates.
Motorists who moan about cyclists breaking the rules would break the exact same rules if they could get away with it so easily. |  |
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