| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:32 - Nov 3 with 885 views | monytowbray |
| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:25 - Nov 3 by BloomBlue |
The trouble is to start a company from nothing takes hard work and some luck but it can make you rich. But most companies in this country are started by individuals with an idea, they then have to work their ar$e off to keep it growing and employ people. Anyone who thinks building a company from 1 person to employing 30 plus people is easy is living in a dream world.
What Labour needs to be careful about is targeting those people, not every company is an Amazon. Those people who start / build companies deserve the financial rewards. Once you constantly increase the taxes on them and basically say thanks for all your hard work starting this company now we'll pinch all your money, you'll have them moving out of the country and stop other people even starting new companies.
If building a business was so easy we would all start one. It's businesses which keep a Country moving, they employ people, pay taxes which pays for things like the NHS, Gov have to encourage business not stifle it with huge taxes.
Blair was the worst PM ever but at least he understood a Gov has to build the base to encourage not discourage people to start new businesses |
It’s a valid point. As I said earlier though, if everyone paid their fair share at the top it would benefit the middle for tax too. Gotta get money for public services from somewhere. It’s a moral obligation to pay tax IMO, one that some seem to not care about to harvest more money they don’t really need. |  |
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| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:32 - Nov 3 with 885 views | monytowbray |
| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:30 - Nov 3 by sparks |
That's just evasion of the issues. |
What issue have I evaded here? You’ve showed up talking about zero hour contracts and how great they are, which seems like some hella deflection. :S [Post edited 3 Nov 2019 8:33]
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| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:34 - Nov 3 with 881 views | tractordownsouth |
| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 07:32 - Nov 3 by jjblue84 |
The Labour Party is capitalist now?? |
You do realise that socialism is still a form of capitalism? It’s just a more regulated one... |  |
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| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:35 - Nov 3 with 879 views | tractordownsouth |
| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 07:47 - Nov 3 by jjblue84 |
Some people still cling onto the murderous ideas of the Soviet Union, and abhor the fact that people can achieve freedom by working hard! |
Where’s the evidence that “ some people still cling onto the mrderpis ideas of the Soviet Union?” | |
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| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:35 - Nov 3 with 877 views | jjblue84 |
| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:09 - Nov 3 by StokieBlue |
See this really isn't helpful either.
There should be proper debates on policies and ideas, not nonsense soundbites based on political allegiance.
You need to try harder.
SB |
I didn’t start it! Capitalism indeed! |  | | |
| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:36 - Nov 3 with 874 views | sparks |
| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:32 - Nov 3 by monytowbray |
What issue have I evaded here? You’ve showed up talking about zero hour contracts and how great they are, which seems like some hella deflection. :S [Post edited 3 Nov 2019 8:33]
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Let's not go down the track of pretending somethign was said which wasn't...
You raised zero hour contracts. I asked for your solution. I did not expound their virtues or deflect from anything.
You then responded to a post with various issues with "stop tax avoidance then we can consider everything else" which is evading the issues raised. [Post edited 3 Nov 2019 8:38]
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| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:37 - Nov 3 with 870 views | jjblue84 |
| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:34 - Nov 3 by tractordownsouth |
You do realise that socialism is still a form of capitalism? It’s just a more regulated one... |
The unstoppable monster indeed! | | | |
| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:40 - Nov 3 with 865 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:25 - Nov 3 by BloomBlue |
The trouble is to start a company from nothing takes hard work and some luck but it can make you rich. But most companies in this country are started by individuals with an idea, they then have to work their ar$e off to keep it growing and employ people. Anyone who thinks building a company from 1 person to employing 30 plus people is easy is living in a dream world.
What Labour needs to be careful about is targeting those people, not every company is an Amazon. Those people who start / build companies deserve the financial rewards. Once you constantly increase the taxes on them and basically say thanks for all your hard work starting this company now we'll pinch all your money, you'll have them moving out of the country and stop other people even starting new companies.
If building a business was so easy we would all start one. It's businesses which keep a Country moving, they employ people, pay taxes which pays for things like the NHS, Gov have to encourage business not stifle it with huge taxes.
Blair was the worst PM ever but at least he understood a Gov has to build the base to encourage not discourage people to start new businesses |
Businesses work on exactly the same principle as that which I mentioned earlier. The majority of businesses in this country are SMEs and exactly as you described - an individual or a couple of individuals setting up a company with an idea, working their nuts off, employing under 50 people and making modest profits under £300k per year.
The owners of these businesses aren't remunerating themselves with £1m bonuses, extortionate salaries or enormous dividends. But it is in their interest to support policies that keep taxes as low as possible. Whilst they are doing that, genuinely big businesses such as Amazon aren't paying their taxes at all or are paying taxes that are significantly lower than they should be. [Post edited 3 Nov 2019 8:42]
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| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:41 - Nov 3 with 866 views | NewcyBlue |
| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:29 - Nov 3 by monytowbray |
What does my personal life have to do with the country? In this regard I plan to vote.
Odd take but okaaaay. |
Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? by monytowbray 22 Oct 2019 9:26At first having a good job was nice, disposable income after years of cr@p jobs. But 8 years of it, watching incompetent people with capital get rich off building teams of skilled people and then flogging it to an early retirement, realising you're just a pawn in a system that rewards privilege more than hard work, dealing with people who think life is nothing but the numbers on an ATM screen and define self worth/motivation. It's really starting to drain me on the inside. The stress and internal office politics on top of that also.
I've always judged life by how happy I am rather than what's in my pocket. I'm doing better financially than ever and honestly I don't think I've ever felt so jaded, miserable and defeated by life. Like I'm trotting along on a train where I don't fit in and heading somewhere I'm really MEH about getting there.
Am I alone in thinking this? I feel like a lot of my close friends align but a lot of them are hippies and punks who are fairly fulfilled in live living the minimalist way with a socialist outlook and rejecting social norms. But is this something the wider world of "normies" also suffer from?
This thread. That’s what. |  |
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| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:42 - Nov 3 with 859 views | monytowbray |
| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:36 - Nov 3 by sparks |
Let's not go down the track of pretending somethign was said which wasn't...
You raised zero hour contracts. I asked for your solution. I did not expound their virtues or deflect from anything.
You then responded to a post with various issues with "stop tax avoidance then we can consider everything else" which is evading the issues raised. [Post edited 3 Nov 2019 8:38]
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I didn’t mention ZHC, you did.
And I said you had a valid point about high bracket taxing on modest money, but also said perhaps it would be easier to address if everyone paid their fair share to begin with.
Not sure exactly what your logic is to get to saying I’m evading something. | |
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| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:43 - Nov 3 with 847 views | mrshallisfit |
| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:00 - Nov 3 by jjblue84 |
I’m not sure how turning the country into Venezuela is going to help solve any of these issues... |
Oh dear. Someone is not using their grey matter and swallowing the right-wing propaganda. My feeling is that you are not worried either way about those injustices. | | | |
| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:44 - Nov 3 with 854 views | sparks |
| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:40 - Nov 3 by tractorboy1978 |
Businesses work on exactly the same principle as that which I mentioned earlier. The majority of businesses in this country are SMEs and exactly as you described - an individual or a couple of individuals setting up a company with an idea, working their nuts off, employing under 50 people and making modest profits under £300k per year.
The owners of these businesses aren't remunerating themselves with £1m bonuses, extortionate salaries or enormous dividends. But it is in their interest to support policies that keep taxes as low as possible. Whilst they are doing that, genuinely big businesses such as Amazon aren't paying their taxes at all or are paying taxes that are significantly lower than they should be. [Post edited 3 Nov 2019 8:42]
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The difficulty, of course, is that shutting the door to tax avoidance in a global market is exceptionally difficult.
We should absolutely support appropriate practical measures which improve that situation. But it is far from straightforward- and Corbyn presumably knows that. Unless you simply have a blanket approach which stifles everything else - throwing baby out with bathwater. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:45 - Nov 3 with 851 views | monytowbray |
| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:41 - Nov 3 by NewcyBlue |
Does anyone else just find capitalism in general massively depressing? by monytowbray 22 Oct 2019 9:26At first having a good job was nice, disposable income after years of cr@p jobs. But 8 years of it, watching incompetent people with capital get rich off building teams of skilled people and then flogging it to an early retirement, realising you're just a pawn in a system that rewards privilege more than hard work, dealing with people who think life is nothing but the numbers on an ATM screen and define self worth/motivation. It's really starting to drain me on the inside. The stress and internal office politics on top of that also.
I've always judged life by how happy I am rather than what's in my pocket. I'm doing better financially than ever and honestly I don't think I've ever felt so jaded, miserable and defeated by life. Like I'm trotting along on a train where I don't fit in and heading somewhere I'm really MEH about getting there.
Am I alone in thinking this? I feel like a lot of my close friends align but a lot of them are hippies and punks who are fairly fulfilled in live living the minimalist way with a socialist outlook and rejecting social norms. But is this something the wider world of "normies" also suffer from?
This thread. That’s what. |
But what does this have to do with my original post here? You’ve linked a thread about my take about wanting to be happier and my personal life within the current system with a political thread about my distain for how the super rich behave.
Are you asking me to lead a civil uprising or something? | |
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| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:47 - Nov 3 with 842 views | mrshallisfit |
| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:37 - Nov 3 by jjblue84 |
The unstoppable monster indeed! |
It certainly is unstoppable. It doesn't regulate itself. As it was said above. You must try harder. My suspicion is you cant. | | | |
| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:47 - Nov 3 with 850 views | StokieBlue |
| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:32 - Nov 3 by monytowbray |
It’s a valid point. As I said earlier though, if everyone paid their fair share at the top it would benefit the middle for tax too. Gotta get money for public services from somewhere. It’s a moral obligation to pay tax IMO, one that some seem to not care about to harvest more money they don’t really need. |
Out of interest, would your ideal endgame be more money in the average persons pockets or more money for public services?
How would you feel as a business owner with a company of 300, paying all your taxes and a fair wage, about Labour's plan to seize 10% of your company?
I think discussion of actual policy is likely to yield a better debate than ideas around concepts.
I don't think many will disagree that large entities like Amazon or high net worth individuals should be paying far more tax, unfortunately it's not an issue which is easily solvable without international cooperation. I think it's more of an issue when smaller entities are adversely effected by these changes whilst large entities are untouched.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:48 - Nov 3 with 840 views | lowhouseblue |
so capital is internationally mobile. that seems an indisputable fact. but you still seem to be happy with a party that has policies which completely ignore that fact. when it all goes wrong, saying that it was the fault of the nasty people who moved their assets abroad, doesn't alter the fact that's it's all gone wrong. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:49 - Nov 3 with 844 views | jjblue84 |
| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:43 - Nov 3 by mrshallisfit |
Oh dear. Someone is not using their grey matter and swallowing the right-wing propaganda. My feeling is that you are not worried either way about those injustices. |
and someone doesn’t seem concerned about the country being turned into a third world state... | | | |
| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:51 - Nov 3 with 824 views | mrshallisfit |
| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:49 - Nov 3 by jjblue84 |
and someone doesn’t seem concerned about the country being turned into a third world state... |
Hook line and sinker. Reel him in. Hes done. | | | |
| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:51 - Nov 3 with 827 views | monytowbray |
| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:47 - Nov 3 by StokieBlue |
Out of interest, would your ideal endgame be more money in the average persons pockets or more money for public services?
How would you feel as a business owner with a company of 300, paying all your taxes and a fair wage, about Labour's plan to seize 10% of your company?
I think discussion of actual policy is likely to yield a better debate than ideas around concepts.
I don't think many will disagree that large entities like Amazon or high net worth individuals should be paying far more tax, unfortunately it's not an issue which is easily solvable without international cooperation. I think it's more of an issue when smaller entities are adversely effected by these changes whilst large entities are untouched.
SB |
I’d like a bit of both really for the endgame. These things have knock on effects which is what people seem to forget. If we have a better economy people will spend more, and that benefits B2C which turn can affect B2B positively. If money is being splashed around more then potentially people could be better off even paying higher tax. | |
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| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:52 - Nov 3 with 825 views | StokieBlue |
| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:49 - Nov 3 by jjblue84 |
and someone doesn’t seem concerned about the country being turned into a third world state... |
You really need to stop pushing this line - it's self-defeating.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:55 - Nov 3 with 818 views | monytowbray |
| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:48 - Nov 3 by lowhouseblue |
so capital is internationally mobile. that seems an indisputable fact. but you still seem to be happy with a party that has policies which completely ignore that fact. when it all goes wrong, saying that it was the fault of the nasty people who moved their assets abroad, doesn't alter the fact that's it's all gone wrong. |
If creating businesses and encouraging it is such a great thing though as some have stated in this thread, then it may potentially open up a gap. As I said earlier, I think leaving is a bluff threat, our spending and potential to profit from it is beneficial to them regardless of tax; they still make a f*ck ton of money at the end. Would you walk away from a million quid because someone says you need to give half of it back to your community and staff? | |
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| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:56 - Nov 3 with 813 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:13 - Nov 3 by monytowbray |
0HC are fine if people choose them over a promised wage but often that’s not the case. I like beans on toast but I wouldn’t force people who don’t to eat it.
The inheritance stuff I can see your point. Sadly if the top of the chain paid their fair share we wouldn’t need to scrape cash into the national pot from modestly high earners so much. |
Modest high earners? Do I detect a degree of self interest?
Surely the objectives should be to see fewer people paying income tax while, at the same time moving the burden from the tax payer to the employer thus reducing reliance on benefitß. |  |
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| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:57 - Nov 3 with 810 views | sparks |
| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:51 - Nov 3 by monytowbray |
I’d like a bit of both really for the endgame. These things have knock on effects which is what people seem to forget. If we have a better economy people will spend more, and that benefits B2C which turn can affect B2B positively. If money is being splashed around more then potentially people could be better off even paying higher tax. |
That sounds a bit like the moon on a stick.
More money in public services, more money in the average pocket, all paid for by higher taxes...
As I have pointed out, those higher taxes almost inevitably have to come from the middle incomes. There is a sweet spot, but the idea that simply increasing taxes improves the economy and leads to everything else being rosy is questionable.
Importantly- Corbyn seems to be looking to go way beyond what you are seeking. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:59 - Nov 3 with 803 views | monytowbray |
| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:56 - Nov 3 by Pinewoodblue |
Modest high earners? Do I detect a degree of self interest?
Surely the objectives should be to see fewer people paying income tax while, at the same time moving the burden from the tax payer to the employer thus reducing reliance on benefitß. |
No self interest at all. I don’t make close to what Corbyn wants to higher tax on earnings. I was using that phrase as I wouldn’t call someone earning 80k in the same bucket as someone who is rich.
I agree with the second paragraph. | |
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| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 09:04 - Nov 3 with 789 views | monytowbray |
| Capitalism truly has created an unstoppable monster on 08:57 - Nov 3 by sparks |
That sounds a bit like the moon on a stick.
More money in public services, more money in the average pocket, all paid for by higher taxes...
As I have pointed out, those higher taxes almost inevitably have to come from the middle incomes. There is a sweet spot, but the idea that simply increasing taxes improves the economy and leads to everything else being rosy is questionable.
Importantly- Corbyn seems to be looking to go way beyond what you are seeking. |
Odd how the person accusing me of evading discussion has evaded the post where you accused me of evading things to reply here. That’s very odd to not even offer an apology.
The issue you seem to have is you seem resigned to the fact the super rich shouldn’t need to pay tax and should make up their own rules. I know it’s not a simple solution to fix, but it needs to be looked at rather than ignored or taking a defeatist attitude. If I needed to collect as much fire wood as I could for the winter, I’d start with the part of the forest with the most dead wood and work down from there. | |
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