| Labour should have walked this election. 13:39 - Dec 5 with 5947 views | usm |
It was/is there for the taking, but Corbyn is simply unelectable.
Far too much of a risk, economically and security so it looks like its going to be the Tories again, largely due to the lack of a viable alternative. |  |
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| Labour should have walked this election. on 16:11 - Dec 5 with 815 views | Fixed_It |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 16:04 - Dec 5 by lowhouseblue |
the pound could fall much further.
we're already at full employment - who is going to take these new public sector jobs? any job creation now needs to be gradual to shift people between sectors.
there is no dispute about the need to end austerity or the need to invest in public services. - the issue is with the quantum - corbyn takes it to utterly reckless levels. there needs to be an element of appropriate fiscal constraint - corbyn and co have none.
labour didn't cause the banking crisis but they left the public finances completely unprepared for it.
nationalisation under corbyn will used to bribe unions and to pursue political purposes - the firms will become a bottomless pit of subsidies and price fixes.
if you mess up the economy then eventually you further mess up the nhs.
to be clear - we need more public spending and we need more government investment. but if it isn't at a sustainable level it risks doing serious macro damage. |
No problem filling these public sector jobs. Unless, of course, we cut off our nose to spite our face and end freeedom of movement and stem the source of good quality labour that membership of the EU facilitates.... |  |
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| Labour should have walked this election. on 16:17 - Dec 5 with 802 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 15:51 - Dec 5 by Fixed_It |
Plummeting pound - have you seen what the threat of Brexit has done?
Investment in essential services - creating employment .
An end to austerity - which wasn't actually necessary anyway, but served the Tory agenda well. Labour did NOT cause the global Banking Crisis despite what the right wing press would have people believe.
Nationalisation where needed - and we all know the industries where privatisation has failed.
And that is without even mentioning the NHS which is under real threat (unless you actually believe Trump and Johnson, in which case you are a mug!).
I am no left-wing looney, but I do fear the lurch to the right that we are in danger of taking, mainly because I have morals. |
I follow the £ closely as the dip to the dollar has probably cost me about £30k but the dip is due to uncertainty and not Brexit itself. I get regular reports from my broker and underneath is one that I received yesterday.
The pound reached the highest level in seven months as traders stepped up bets on a win for the Conservatives in next week’s election. The currency pushed above $1.30 Wednesday as polls show the ruling Tories holding their lead over Jeremy Corbyn’s left-wing Labour Party. Sterling also advanced against all major peers as U.S. President Donald Trump’s visit to the U.K. unfolded comparatively smoothly, defying speculation his presence could undermine Prime Minister Boris Johnson. Investors see a Conservative majority on Dec. 12 as the most market-positive outcome, as it would allow Johnson to push his Brexit deal through Parliament in time for next month’s deadline and move on to the next phase of talks with the European Union. Trump’s visit had been seen as a risk for the Conservatives, who face questions over how the National Health Service would fare in any future trade deal with the U.S. “With just over a week to go, sterling remains highly influenced by the polls day-to-day, but we may also be seeing some relief that Trump did not toss a grenade into the U.K. political system during his remarks,” said Ned Rumpeltin, European head of currency strategy at Toronto-Dominion Bank. “A break above the October high at $1.3013 may open the door for a test of $1.3185.” The pound gained 0.4% to $1.3042, the highest since May 10. It rallied 0.3% to 1.1776 against the euro. |  |
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| Labour should have walked this election. on 16:31 - Dec 5 with 781 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 16:11 - Dec 5 by Fixed_It |
No problem filling these public sector jobs. Unless, of course, we cut off our nose to spite our face and end freeedom of movement and stem the source of good quality labour that membership of the EU facilitates.... |
But even after Brexit (if it happens) UK can and will still import overseas workers.
The fact that the loonies on here are comfortable on their high horse and enjoying their moral crusade doesn't mean that their scaremongering is correct. Mostly they talk a complete load of b*llocks.
Even some of the sensible posters have started talking b*llocks.
This board is full of complete b*llocks. | |
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| Labour should have walked this election. on 16:32 - Dec 5 with 772 views | BLUEGOLD |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 15:26 - Dec 5 by GlasgowBlue |
What if people decide that they can't vote Johnson or Corbyn so choose LibDem/Green/SNP/Plaid etc? |
I’m speaking generally. I’d vote green if I lived in Brighton Pavilion constituency for example.
We need to get the Tories out of power |  | | |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 16:34 - Dec 5 with 768 views | BLUEGOLD |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 15:31 - Dec 5 by lowhouseblue |
corbyn would be just as bad as johnson, but in different ways. a corbyn government would crash the economy and create crisis - a crisis which would make the fiscal problems in 2010 look inconsequential. if you really fear the return of a proper hard line thatcherite government the greatest risk of getting one is after a hard left government which screws the economy. a corbyn government would also be illiberal and corrupt.
so which way should i vote? |
Labours policies are middle of the road in European terms.
Nationalised railways in the vast majority.
He’s as left wing as Merkel.
Thatcher was the Ryanair of political leaders. If it moves sell it.
And she spunked the oil revenue that should have been used to rebuild the country which the others continued.
Johnson is a narcissist and a proven liar. How can you vote for him? [Post edited 5 Dec 2019 16:39]
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| Labour should have walked this election. on 16:35 - Dec 5 with 764 views | lowhouseblue |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 16:34 - Dec 5 by BLUEGOLD |
Labours policies are middle of the road in European terms.
Nationalised railways in the vast majority.
He’s as left wing as Merkel.
Thatcher was the Ryanair of political leaders. If it moves sell it.
And she spunked the oil revenue that should have been used to rebuild the country which the others continued.
Johnson is a narcissist and a proven liar. How can you vote for him? [Post edited 5 Dec 2019 16:39]
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nonsense. have you ever looked at german fiscal policy? |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Labour should have walked this election. on 16:37 - Dec 5 with 753 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 16:31 - Dec 5 by Lord_Lucan |
But even after Brexit (if it happens) UK can and will still import overseas workers.
The fact that the loonies on here are comfortable on their high horse and enjoying their moral crusade doesn't mean that their scaremongering is correct. Mostly they talk a complete load of b*llocks.
Even some of the sensible posters have started talking b*llocks.
This board is full of complete b*llocks. |
Balls |  |
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| Labour should have walked this election. on 16:39 - Dec 5 with 746 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 16:34 - Dec 5 by BLUEGOLD |
Labours policies are middle of the road in European terms.
Nationalised railways in the vast majority.
He’s as left wing as Merkel.
Thatcher was the Ryanair of political leaders. If it moves sell it.
And she spunked the oil revenue that should have been used to rebuild the country which the others continued.
Johnson is a narcissist and a proven liar. How can you vote for him? [Post edited 5 Dec 2019 16:39]
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Just because you have heard some loon say that it doesn't make it true.
Edit; Timely edit! [Post edited 5 Dec 2019 17:06]
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| Labour should have walked this election. on 16:39 - Dec 5 with 739 views | HARRY10 |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 16:11 - Dec 5 by Fixed_It |
No problem filling these public sector jobs. Unless, of course, we cut off our nose to spite our face and end freeedom of movement and stem the source of good quality labour that membership of the EU facilitates.... |
"abour didn't cause the banking crisis but they left the public finances completely unprepared for it. "
So how should they have been prepared ?
For something that suggests a degree of foresight - which apparently no one had...anywhere.
Or maybe there was a government who did see the subprime mortgage collapse coming and so took action. I'm sure you can point us all in that direction. | | | |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 16:40 - Dec 5 with 736 views | homer_123 |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 16:35 - Dec 5 by lowhouseblue |
nonsense. have you ever looked at german fiscal policy? |
have you ever looked at german fiscal policy?
There's a Python sketch in that. |  |
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| Labour should have walked this election. on 16:44 - Dec 5 with 721 views | lowhouseblue |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 16:39 - Dec 5 by HARRY10 |
"abour didn't cause the banking crisis but they left the public finances completely unprepared for it. "
So how should they have been prepared ?
For something that suggests a degree of foresight - which apparently no one had...anywhere.
Or maybe there was a government who did see the subprime mortgage collapse coming and so took action. I'm sure you can point us all in that direction. |
i think that was meant for me.
it was a serious error to be running a large structural budget deficit over the economic cycle so that before the crisis struck the uk's fiscal position was already fragile. responsibility for that lies with brown who - for all his undoubted very good points - fiddled the fiscal projections to disguise the real extent of the structural deficit. that's the sense in which the extent of the fiscal shock caused by 2008 was particularly severe in the uk. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Labour should have walked this election. on 16:46 - Dec 5 with 711 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 16:37 - Dec 5 by Darth_Koont |
Balls |
Just to reassure you Koonty, I wasn't referring to you in the "Sensible posters" bit. | |
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| Labour should have walked this election. on 16:48 - Dec 5 with 697 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 16:46 - Dec 5 by Lord_Lucan |
Just to reassure you Koonty, I wasn't referring to you in the "Sensible posters" bit. |
I should bloody well hope not! | |
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| Labour should have walked this election. on 16:49 - Dec 5 with 692 views | HARRY10 |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 16:03 - Dec 5 by GlasgowBlue |
I know you voted for remain mate but over the past three years you have been one of the most vocal people saying that your side lost and the result should be respected. |
The result is being respected, Apart from you brexiteers who want to change it.
It was advisory. That was known before the vote, during the vote and ever since.
So why will you brexiteers not respects the UK's lawful democratic process ? | | | |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 16:53 - Dec 5 with 678 views | baxterbasics |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 16:06 - Dec 5 by Lord_Lucan |
And I still agree with that, but something in my mind says I should abstain - also I stay in Norwich Thursdays so I would have to drive home Thursday night when I could be curled up in my man cave with a bottle of plonk. |
If Sandy wins by 1 vote I shall be blaming you. |  |
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| Labour should have walked this election. on 16:55 - Dec 5 with 672 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 16:49 - Dec 5 by HARRY10 |
The result is being respected, Apart from you brexiteers who want to change it.
It was advisory. That was known before the vote, during the vote and ever since.
So why will you brexiteers not respects the UK's lawful democratic process ? |
It was advisory but it was said that it would be implemented and everyone knew and accepted that. If it had been a remain win you (and others) would not have mentioned the advisory bit and you also wouldn't be calling for a "Peoples vote"
I mean who the f*ck voted first time round if it wasn't people? | |
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| Labour should have walked this election. on 16:56 - Dec 5 with 664 views | baxterbasics |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 16:39 - Dec 5 by HARRY10 |
"abour didn't cause the banking crisis but they left the public finances completely unprepared for it. "
So how should they have been prepared ?
For something that suggests a degree of foresight - which apparently no one had...anywhere.
Or maybe there was a government who did see the subprime mortgage collapse coming and so took action. I'm sure you can point us all in that direction. |
In the boom time, you run a surplus and pay down debt. That way you have room when recession hits (as they inevitably do).
Blair and Brown did not do this. They had record tax receipts and still overspent for a good decade.
Edit -a point already made, more eloquently, by Lowhouse. [Post edited 5 Dec 2019 16:58]
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| Labour should have walked this election. on 17:22 - Dec 5 with 616 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 16:39 - Dec 5 by HARRY10 |
"abour didn't cause the banking crisis but they left the public finances completely unprepared for it. "
So how should they have been prepared ?
For something that suggests a degree of foresight - which apparently no one had...anywhere.
Or maybe there was a government who did see the subprime mortgage collapse coming and so took action. I'm sure you can point us all in that direction. |
Quite right. There appear to be some genuine criticisms that Labour could have done more. But as you say, that's with the benefit of hindsight. At the back end of 2007, shadow chancellor George Osborne pledged to match Labour spending as he expected the economic growth to accclerate past state spending. I don't believe there's anything to sugegst that the Tory plans would have left the economy any better prepared for the crash. Osborne has also been highly criticised for his response to the crash too.
We had low growth and ran deficits through much of the Thatcher, Major and Cameron/May/Boris years. But they all had external crises to deal with - Thatcher 2 recessions, Major the ERM issue and Osborne the aftermath of the last recession.
This tit for tat playground point scoring (not aimed at you!) is depressing though - it normally lacks any context or understanding, and is thus largely meaningless and doesn't help anyone move on.
edited for typos. [Post edited 5 Dec 2019 17:25]
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| Labour should have walked this election. on 17:39 - Dec 5 with 586 views | HARRY10 |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 16:55 - Dec 5 by Lord_Lucan |
It was advisory but it was said that it would be implemented and everyone knew and accepted that. If it had been a remain win you (and others) would not have mentioned the advisory bit and you also wouldn't be calling for a "Peoples vote"
I mean who the f*ck voted first time round if it wasn't people? |
eh ?
Who said it would be implemented ?
Whichever way the vote went it was still only ever advisory, so the subsequent decisions would still be those of MPs.
I have never called for another vote, People's or otherwise. | | | |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 17:48 - Dec 5 with 576 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 17:39 - Dec 5 by HARRY10 |
eh ?
Who said it would be implemented ?
Whichever way the vote went it was still only ever advisory, so the subsequent decisions would still be those of MPs.
I have never called for another vote, People's or otherwise. |
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/why-the-government-believes-that-voti
"This is your decision. The government will implement what you decide." | |
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| Labour should have walked this election. on 17:55 - Dec 5 with 564 views | tractordownsouth |
What elements of Boris' Brexit deal are even remotely similar to what he promised in 2016?
There's no mandate for Vote Leave's version of Brexit. |  |
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| Labour should have walked this election. on 17:57 - Dec 5 with 559 views | Pinewoodblue |
I don't subscribe to the view that if Labour fail Corbyn is to blame.
He was a reluctant nomination and stood to give party membership to have a wider choice being more to left than the already nominated candidates. Didn't he only just manage to get the necessary support from Labour MPs needed to be on the ballot paper. Of the candidates he had the lowest level of support from his peers.
He was the outsider but appealed to the membership. Card carrying friends had no intention of supporting him preferring Andy Burnham of Yvette Cooper however they all ended up in the Corbyn camp.
A Labour party lead by Andy Burnham would be much better placed to form a Government. Labour's problem is that the party activists are more left than the voters Labour need to attract to gain power.
Corbyn may be the leader but the manifesto is a collective document it pleases activists but scares the sh1te out of too many of the electorate. |  |
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| Labour should have walked this election. on 17:58 - Dec 5 with 556 views | HARRY10 |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 16:44 - Dec 5 by lowhouseblue |
i think that was meant for me.
it was a serious error to be running a large structural budget deficit over the economic cycle so that before the crisis struck the uk's fiscal position was already fragile. responsibility for that lies with brown who - for all his undoubted very good points - fiddled the fiscal projections to disguise the real extent of the structural deficit. that's the sense in which the extent of the fiscal shock caused by 2008 was particularly severe in the uk. |
What on earth has that to do with the sub prime mortgage collapse, which triggered the global finacial collapse ?
It was a lack of regulation that caused the above. Something that Heotge Osbornme actually criticesed Brown for as he (Osborne) had been been a keen advocate of further banking deregulation when the Conservatives were in opposition. In fact " Brown he had come under "relentless pressure" from the City not to over-regulate."
So lord knows where the country would have been had the Tories been in charge, And it was them who objected to Brown's thought that governments needed to pump in money to stop a complete collapse of the banking syste,m. An act that was soon followed by Germany and others.
So maybe you Tories could stop lying about this, though given cutrrent evidence there is little hope of this. As I suspect the truth is a little too uncomfortable and as Goebbels said
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. "
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| Labour should have walked this election. on 17:59 - Dec 5 with 555 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 17:55 - Dec 5 by tractordownsouth |
What elements of Boris' Brexit deal are even remotely similar to what he promised in 2016?
There's no mandate for Vote Leave's version of Brexit. |
Yeah ok mate. You are correct, in fact everything you say is correct*****
*****I am hoping that this will save both of us hours of pointless arguing where we end up exactly where we started.
You can buy me a thank you beer if and when you see me. | |
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| Labour should have walked this election. on 18:03 - Dec 5 with 537 views | lowhouseblue |
| Labour should have walked this election. on 17:58 - Dec 5 by HARRY10 |
What on earth has that to do with the sub prime mortgage collapse, which triggered the global finacial collapse ?
It was a lack of regulation that caused the above. Something that Heotge Osbornme actually criticesed Brown for as he (Osborne) had been been a keen advocate of further banking deregulation when the Conservatives were in opposition. In fact " Brown he had come under "relentless pressure" from the City not to over-regulate."
So lord knows where the country would have been had the Tories been in charge, And it was them who objected to Brown's thought that governments needed to pump in money to stop a complete collapse of the banking syste,m. An act that was soon followed by Germany and others.
So maybe you Tories could stop lying about this, though given cutrrent evidence there is little hope of this. As I suspect the truth is a little too uncomfortable and as Goebbels said
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. "
. |
i think we're probably posting at cross purposes. i responded to your question to explain why the uk was poorly placed fiscally when the credit crisis occurred. while you are posting about why the credit crisis occurred and how brown responded. the two posts are not incompatible but they are clearly discussing different things. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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