| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:43 - Feb 18 with 3231 views | BrixtonBlue |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:29 - Feb 18 by Lord_Lucan |
The thread is discussing the pros and cons of decriminalising drugs, most people are discussing it but you are going round in circles, and you now seem to be followed about by a lapdog**
**And you know when you are in the wrong when you receive upvotes from Brixton. |
If I agreed with you, would I be *your* lapdog? |  |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:43 - Feb 18 with 3231 views | HARRY10 |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:32 - Feb 18 by jeera |
They'll take the strongest hit available at the cheapest price.
Thing with addicts is they will only be offered medically enough to wean them off, not to feed their habit continually forever. Usually a substitute under controlled circumstances.
That's support for someone who wants to rehab but no use to anyone who wants to continue using.
And to those types then no amount of substitutes will compare to the real thing available on the street.
I'm sure I'm missing some points here so excuse me - I've not followed the thread.
I'm just unsure why addicts are being discussed in the same thread as recreational users when it comes to debating legalising, as they're different subjects requiring altogether different approaches. [Post edited 18 Feb 2020 19:35]
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Unfortunately your last sentence is not a point grasped by these clueless zealots - hence the endless posts dealing with their muddled headed bleats.
Your point about those not wishing or being able to come off heroin is spot on. Stop trying to 'cutre' them and simply supply them with clean heoin on prescription. It is not that dear and once you factor in the savings in police, courtm jail, loss through theft it will be in 'profit',
And no righties, you will not simply be able to turn up at the surgery or Boots and claim you are an addict - any more than you would be able to claim chemotherapy.
Where one side want this regarded as a medical problem, the other side want it treated as criminal.....while bleating about the effect that wish has !
Either we continue to move forward or we stick with the righties ideas that it can be dealt with by a 'just say no campaign' |  | | |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:43 - Feb 18 with 3227 views | lowhouseblue |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:39 - Feb 18 by eireblue |
How should it work today with nicotine, alcohol and gambling? |
class a drugs are significantly different in their impact. the better analogy is with opioids - where everyone in the us accepts that, given their proven impact, even when rationed via prescription they are far too freely available. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:45 - Feb 18 with 3223 views | Lord_Lucan |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:43 - Feb 18 by BrixtonBlue |
If I agreed with you, would I be *your* lapdog? |
You could apply I suppose. |  |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:47 - Feb 18 with 3211 views | footers |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:43 - Feb 18 by lowhouseblue |
class a drugs are significantly different in their impact. the better analogy is with opioids - where everyone in the us accepts that, given their proven impact, even when rationed via prescription they are far too freely available. |
So what's your solution, lowhouse? We've had plenty of talk about others' plans being daft, so what's the proper answer? |  |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:48 - Feb 18 with 3206 views | eireblue |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:41 - Feb 18 by Lord_Lucan |
If you actually read the thread you donut you will see that I am largely in favour of decriminalising class A's and if you do so you need somewhere like a smart shop to buy them from.
I don't know who you are arguing with actually |
A bit like popping into Ann Summers on the high street sat between M&S and Debenhams, to get some female wellness product vs dodgy alley way shop selling magazines with mostly black dots, that sometimes was raided, with a very greasy fellow behind the counter.
Errr.... that analogy was from a story about someone else’s student experience. |  | | |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:48 - Feb 18 with 3204 views | BrixtonBlue |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:32 - Feb 18 by jeera |
They'll take the strongest hit available at the cheapest price.
Thing with addicts is they will only be offered medically enough to wean them off, not to feed their habit continually forever. Usually a substitute under controlled circumstances.
That's support for someone who wants to rehab but no use to anyone who wants to continue using.
And to those types then no amount of substitutes will compare to the real thing available on the street.
I'm sure I'm missing some points here so excuse me - I've not followed the thread.
I'm just unsure why addicts are being discussed in the same thread as recreational users when it comes to debating legalising, as they're different subjects requiring altogether different approaches. [Post edited 18 Feb 2020 19:35]
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Yeah, you've missed quite a few points fella. We're discussing if drugs were made available at the doctors for recreational use. It's nothing to do with weaning people off. There's no reason (apart from to win an argument on TWTD) why the drugs in this fictitious world would be cheaper or stronger from drug dealers. | |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:50 - Feb 18 with 3194 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 18:53 - Feb 18 by BrixtonBlue |
Would you go for a pure, doctor prescribed drug or buy something you don't know what it's been cut with from a dealer outside Brixton KFC?
I know which I'd choose. |
That rather depends on being able to get a prescription though doesn’t it? Pretty obvious that if drugs were available in such a manner the illegal trade would still exist |  |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:51 - Feb 18 with 3189 views | BrixtonBlue |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:40 - Feb 18 by sparks |
No- he is accusing people disagree with him of being bigots and righties for the views espoused in this thread. If you really can't see that, then you are too closely wed to your own arguments and need a step back. |
You're putting words in his mouth. He hasn't said that at all. | |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:51 - Feb 18 with 3186 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:48 - Feb 18 by BrixtonBlue |
Yeah, you've missed quite a few points fella. We're discussing if drugs were made available at the doctors for recreational use. It's nothing to do with weaning people off. There's no reason (apart from to win an argument on TWTD) why the drugs in this fictitious world would be cheaper or stronger from drug dealers. |
Again pretty obvious that in a fictional world where hard drugs are available from legitimate sources for a fee, illegal dealers will find a way to sell theirs cheaper, as getting their income will depend on it
The quality would be sh*te and quite probably dangerous but desperate addicts gon desperate addict | |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:51 - Feb 18 with 3188 views | jeera |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:43 - Feb 18 by HARRY10 |
Unfortunately your last sentence is not a point grasped by these clueless zealots - hence the endless posts dealing with their muddled headed bleats.
Your point about those not wishing or being able to come off heroin is spot on. Stop trying to 'cutre' them and simply supply them with clean heoin on prescription. It is not that dear and once you factor in the savings in police, courtm jail, loss through theft it will be in 'profit',
And no righties, you will not simply be able to turn up at the surgery or Boots and claim you are an addict - any more than you would be able to claim chemotherapy.
Where one side want this regarded as a medical problem, the other side want it treated as criminal.....while bleating about the effect that wish has !
Either we continue to move forward or we stick with the righties ideas that it can be dealt with by a 'just say no campaign' |
But you'd still have addicts and you then need to factor in that quantities handed out won't be enough to satiate a full-on addict's appetite.
The State just wouldn't do that.
I've known a few addicts and their entire existence is spent searching for the next hit.
I suppose it could be argued that if people are paying then that will dictate their allowance, and that addicts won't be working in proper jobs so they would have to rely on prescriptions, but the issue there is when it comes to filling the gaps in between collecting their legalised/prescribed supply, crime will still be the answer. |  |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:52 - Feb 18 with 3180 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:43 - Feb 18 by HARRY10 |
Unfortunately your last sentence is not a point grasped by these clueless zealots - hence the endless posts dealing with their muddled headed bleats.
Your point about those not wishing or being able to come off heroin is spot on. Stop trying to 'cutre' them and simply supply them with clean heoin on prescription. It is not that dear and once you factor in the savings in police, courtm jail, loss through theft it will be in 'profit',
And no righties, you will not simply be able to turn up at the surgery or Boots and claim you are an addict - any more than you would be able to claim chemotherapy.
Where one side want this regarded as a medical problem, the other side want it treated as criminal.....while bleating about the effect that wish has !
Either we continue to move forward or we stick with the righties ideas that it can be dealt with by a 'just say no campaign' |
If you can’t simply turn up at Boots and claim to be an addict to get drugs, where will people that want them get them from then? | |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:53 - Feb 18 with 3169 views | BrixtonBlue |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:40 - Feb 18 by sparks |
? |
Feck me, are you incapable of doing anything yourself? On this instance I'll help you out by copying and pasting;
"We all know feeding the market is a bad thing"
It's 6 posts up from the bottom. Now about that apology... | |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:58 - Feb 18 with 3152 views | HARRY10 |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:41 - Feb 18 by Lord_Lucan |
If you actually read the thread you donut you will see that I am largely in favour of decriminalising class A's and if you do so you need somewhere like a smart shop to buy them from.
I don't know who you are arguing with actually |
Good
my point is we recognise the difference between addictive stuff and recreational
The former is costing a fortune to society and misery to family members of addicts - and huge distress to victims of theft, mugging burglary etc - so it needs a wider thought than what happens now
Recreational would as you say mean smart shops or something similar.
However it means we need to start to work towards that end. Look how tobacco has been marginalised through non smoking, non advertising etc
Similarly decriminilising drugas would have to be in stages, work out best practice etc.
For my part though that would mean looking at all drugs - so stopping cheap booze being sold with meals at supermarkets would be one I would be in favour of clamping down on. Starting Weds afternoon  | | | |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:58 - Feb 18 with 3148 views | BrixtonBlue |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:41 - Feb 18 by Lord_Lucan |
If you actually read the thread you donut you will see that I am largely in favour of decriminalising class A's and if you do so you need somewhere like a smart shop to buy them from.
I don't know who you are arguing with actually |
I'm not arguing. You stated "If you put a GP in the way who will log your "prescription" then you are handing the market back to the dealers."
I merely questioned that by saying, "Would you go for a pure, doctor prescribed drug or buy something you don't know what it's been cut with"?
I'm questioning why, in your scenario, would people go "back to the dealers" for the inferior stuff?
Not sure what you're getting uppity about, it's a fair point no? | |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 20:01 - Feb 18 with 3124 views | BrixtonBlue |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:43 - Feb 18 by lowhouseblue |
class a drugs are significantly different in their impact. the better analogy is with opioids - where everyone in the us accepts that, given their proven impact, even when rationed via prescription they are far too freely available. |
How are class a drugs are significantly different to nicotine, alcohol and gambling in their impact? | |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 20:02 - Feb 18 with 3121 views | lowhouseblue |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:47 - Feb 18 by footers |
So what's your solution, lowhouse? We've had plenty of talk about others' plans being daft, so what's the proper answer? |
where have i claimed to have an answer? legalising non-class a drugs may well be part of it in terms of policing. but legalising class a would just make matters far worse. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 20:03 - Feb 18 with 3117 views | sparks |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:58 - Feb 18 by HARRY10 |
Good
my point is we recognise the difference between addictive stuff and recreational
The former is costing a fortune to society and misery to family members of addicts - and huge distress to victims of theft, mugging burglary etc - so it needs a wider thought than what happens now
Recreational would as you say mean smart shops or something similar.
However it means we need to start to work towards that end. Look how tobacco has been marginalised through non smoking, non advertising etc
Similarly decriminilising drugas would have to be in stages, work out best practice etc.
For my part though that would mean looking at all drugs - so stopping cheap booze being sold with meals at supermarkets would be one I would be in favour of clamping down on. Starting Weds afternoon |
1- who decides what is recreational?
2- Do you agree that there is no commonly used Class A which is strictly recreational and without geneuine risk of serious addiction or physical harm?
3- If you would stop sale of cheap alcohol- isnt that entirely contrary to your legalisation argument? People will make cheap alcohol. Its not difficult.
4- Does that mean that the recreational drugs must not be cheap as well?
4 straight questions. I am expecting evasion rather than answers. |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 20:03 - Feb 18 with 3116 views | jeera |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:48 - Feb 18 by BrixtonBlue |
Yeah, you've missed quite a few points fella. We're discussing if drugs were made available at the doctors for recreational use. It's nothing to do with weaning people off. There's no reason (apart from to win an argument on TWTD) why the drugs in this fictitious world would be cheaper or stronger from drug dealers. |
Ok, fair enough, ta.
But surely it's safe to assume doctors have better things to do than to be prescribing recreational drugs so that's a no go.
The only time the local surgery will be involved will be to recommend and refer to drug programmes for addicts. They're not qualified to deal with those kind of patients on a weekly basis but there's people who are.
So the docs are out of the picture beyond that.
Which leaves buying [legalised] drugs from government approved sources, which may well include chemists such as Boots. It would have to be regulated carefully so safe to say that Roys and Wilkos won't be having their own dedicated aisles.
In India, you can only purchase Bhang from government sponsored outlets so perhaps it would be a bit like that.
Quantities would need to be tightly controlled though to stop people selling them on to others who aren't supposed to have them. | |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 20:07 - Feb 18 with 3101 views | BrixtonBlue |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:45 - Feb 18 by Lord_Lucan |
You could apply I suppose. |
The point is calling someone a lapdog just because they agree with someone else is a weak argument. I agreed with Hampstead yesterday FFS!
Did you noticed I up-voted where you said an up-vote from me proves you're wrong? I thought that was quite clever. | |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 20:08 - Feb 18 with 3094 views | footers |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 20:02 - Feb 18 by lowhouseblue |
where have i claimed to have an answer? legalising non-class a drugs may well be part of it in terms of policing. but legalising class a would just make matters far worse. |
Just seems many on this thread are happy picking holes but very light on providing alternative solutions to a serious problem.
Drug use is already effectively decriminalised thanks to Tory policing cuts, same as the burglary which often accompanies it.
What do we do, aside from keeping things as they are- that is my question. How about the introduction of safe drug consumption rooms as a starter for ten? Needle exchanges are already widely available, so perhaps limiting subsequent health and community issues?
By some people's logic even effective alternative therapies such as methadone should be barred since you can get them from a chemist and they are an opiate produced by a pharma company, which is obviously well mad, innit. | |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 20:09 - Feb 18 with 3087 views | BrixtonBlue |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:50 - Feb 18 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
That rather depends on being able to get a prescription though doesn’t it? Pretty obvious that if drugs were available in such a manner the illegal trade would still exist |
How big is the illegal trade in alcohol compared with pubs, off-licences and supermarkets? | |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 20:11 - Feb 18 with 3072 views | jeera |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 20:09 - Feb 18 by BrixtonBlue |
How big is the illegal trade in alcohol compared with pubs, off-licences and supermarkets? |
To answer that booze bootlegging was massive for many years.
To the point that it was being blamed for pubs closing down all over the place through lost sales. | |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 20:13 - Feb 18 with 3066 views | BrixtonBlue |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:51 - Feb 18 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Again pretty obvious that in a fictional world where hard drugs are available from legitimate sources for a fee, illegal dealers will find a way to sell theirs cheaper, as getting their income will depend on it
The quality would be sh*te and quite probably dangerous but desperate addicts gon desperate addict |
Nope, not obvious at all. You're just making that up. And taking the opposite view to me, surprise surprise.
Do people look to buy bootleg booze because it's cheaper than going to the pub?
Your argument makes no sense. Having a line of coke could just be like having a pint of beer. There's absolutely no reason to put these price barriers in the way. | |
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| If you buy illegal drugs on 20:15 - Feb 18 with 3054 views | BrixtonBlue |
| If you buy illegal drugs on 19:51 - Feb 18 by jeera |
But you'd still have addicts and you then need to factor in that quantities handed out won't be enough to satiate a full-on addict's appetite.
The State just wouldn't do that.
I've known a few addicts and their entire existence is spent searching for the next hit.
I suppose it could be argued that if people are paying then that will dictate their allowance, and that addicts won't be working in proper jobs so they would have to rely on prescriptions, but the issue there is when it comes to filling the gaps in between collecting their legalised/prescribed supply, crime will still be the answer. |
Swap drugs for alcohol in your argument. What's the difference? | |
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