| Five Point Protest being launched 21:24 - Mar 5 with 7898 views | Mullet |
Seems this is going about now. Objectively it seems a 180 from the noises made in August-October which begs why they weren't concerns then I guess.
I wonder where this will lead. |  |
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| Five Point Protest being launched on 22:41 - Mar 5 with 2613 views | tractorboy7777 |
I agree that this seasons failings can be pointed at Lambert but behind the scenes, he wasn’t given funds in January to fill areas that needed filling. Could this be a hangover from Hursts time, did he give the likes of Nolan and Jackson ridiculously high wages?
For me though, the failings of Lambert clouds over the general failings of Evans. The club is stale, from the stadium to the training facilities. Evans came in and cut the ‘behind the scenes’ costs year on year, you only have to look at the accounts:
2008 - £4.1m
2012 - £3.5m
2013 - £2.6m
2014 - £2.1m
Stable until 2018
2018 - £1.6m
A drop of over a half over that period and it’s clear to see! |  |
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| Five Point Protest being launched on 00:22 - Mar 6 with 2563 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Five Point Protest being launched on 21:38 - Mar 5 by WD19 |
Jesus wept. Putting words in PowerPoint with a glossy background doesn’t make them any more valid. Nor does using 200 words when 20 will do.
E.g.
Transfers: We have been a bit sh!t at this lately. It would be good if we were less sh1t in future. |
Your version is more accurate. It’s not just been freebies. We spent half decent money on a few players recently. They just turned out to be crap. So my plan would be to work out whether players are crap before deciding whether to buy them. I reckon that might be important. [Post edited 6 Mar 2020 0:22]
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| Five Point Protest being launched on 01:39 - Mar 6 with 2537 views | Illinoisblue |
Well intentioned but ultimately futile. Talk of a march too, from station to the ground.
We were top of the bastard league just six weeks ago. How in the name off the lord Jesus fooking Christ did we end up in this mess? Ffs |  |
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| Five Point Protest being launched on 06:50 - Mar 6 with 2488 views | gordon |
I wonder what the first draft was like. The first sentence of 'Investment and Sustainability' is a train wreck. |  | | |
| Five Point Protest being launched on 08:04 - Mar 6 with 2437 views | Oxford_Blue |
| Five Point Protest being launched on 22:31 - Mar 5 by shouldistayorcounago |
I don't understand how you can overlook the catastrophe that has been Evan's ownership - it really isn't that complicated.
When he came in, we were an upper-mid table Championship side. When he came in, we were told we would be a Premier League side before long.
He has invested - in the wrong managers, the wrong staff, and the wrong players. Yes, it could be worse. We could be Bury etc. etc.
Ultimately though, the man has failed to achieve anything with us other than stagnation and decline. I get behind the time as best I can but that man is the one responsible for the state we are in, and news flash, he isn't going to get us out of it!
I said at the start of the season that regardless of what I want from this season, I would be surprised to see us finish above 8th. The first part of the season made me think I had been too harsh. Everything since then has shown me we'll be lucky to finish as high as that.
Certainly some blame falls at Lambert's door, we can all think of bemusing decisions he's made throughout the season. But in reality, the lackluster business strategy and ambivalence from Evans over the last 10 years is what has actually sealed our fate.
I'm not sure whether I'll go again this season, I've done a lot of games this season and put a lot of money in his pocket. At this point it just feels like I'm in an abusive relationship to be honest. I really do love my club but Evans is draining that day by day. |
All true. But the question is whether Evans has acted unreasonably. I’m actually not sure he has - and the failure has happened because of poor managers and players. The managers he picked were all reasonable choices at the time and didn’t draw opposition from most fans. He went for stability (Magilton) a big name (Keane) old hands (PJ and MM) a young manager (Hurst) then someone who had experience of getting up from league one and recent premiership experience (Lambert). He gave the first three plenty of money. He’s also given Lambert reasonable support.
Everyone has let him down. He doesn’t now have the money needed to pump into the team to get it into the premiership. The playing field has totally changed since he bought the club. Teams now get £90m for being relegated.
Appreciate there is a witch hunt for Evans and someone has to be blamed and any attempt at discussing the point is met with hysteria on here by some. He has also made some poor decisions at times - but the big decisions haven’t been unreasonable. He’s just been let down by managers. | | | |
| Five Point Protest being launched on 08:08 - Mar 6 with 2431 views | Chrisd |
| Five Point Protest being launched on 08:04 - Mar 6 by Oxford_Blue |
All true. But the question is whether Evans has acted unreasonably. I’m actually not sure he has - and the failure has happened because of poor managers and players. The managers he picked were all reasonable choices at the time and didn’t draw opposition from most fans. He went for stability (Magilton) a big name (Keane) old hands (PJ and MM) a young manager (Hurst) then someone who had experience of getting up from league one and recent premiership experience (Lambert). He gave the first three plenty of money. He’s also given Lambert reasonable support.
Everyone has let him down. He doesn’t now have the money needed to pump into the team to get it into the premiership. The playing field has totally changed since he bought the club. Teams now get £90m for being relegated.
Appreciate there is a witch hunt for Evans and someone has to be blamed and any attempt at discussing the point is met with hysteria on here by some. He has also made some poor decisions at times - but the big decisions haven’t been unreasonable. He’s just been let down by managers. |
He's most certainly played his part in our demise and there's no getting away from that. | |
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| Five Point Protest being launched on 08:10 - Mar 6 with 2425 views | Oxford_Blue |
| Five Point Protest being launched on 08:08 - Mar 6 by Chrisd |
He's most certainly played his part in our demise and there's no getting away from that. |
Can you name a decision he has made that at the time was unreasonable and which has been a major cause of our current position please? | | | |
| Five Point Protest being launched on 08:14 - Mar 6 with 2420 views | Chrisd |
| Five Point Protest being launched on 08:10 - Mar 6 by Oxford_Blue |
Can you name a decision he has made that at the time was unreasonable and which has been a major cause of our current position please? |
I'd be here for too long Oxford Blue, identify those countless errors of judgement. Here's two, lack of investment at crucial times to back the manager in the transfer window, MM in January 2015 and January 2020 with PL. The lack of any significant transfer business has ultimately cost us promotion on both occasions. | |
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| Five Point Protest being launched on 08:16 - Mar 6 with 2407 views | Oxford_Blue |
| Five Point Protest being launched on 08:14 - Mar 6 by Chrisd |
I'd be here for too long Oxford Blue, identify those countless errors of judgement. Here's two, lack of investment at crucial times to back the manager in the transfer window, MM in January 2015 and January 2020 with PL. The lack of any significant transfer business has ultimately cost us promotion on both occasions. |
But in both cases the team was already in the top two.
Who was it we would have brought in? Why would they have guaranteed success?
Not sure it’s as simple as that. | | | |
| Five Point Protest being launched on 08:17 - Mar 6 with 2403 views | WD19 |
| Five Point Protest being launched on 08:14 - Mar 6 by Chrisd |
I'd be here for too long Oxford Blue, identify those countless errors of judgement. Here's two, lack of investment at crucial times to back the manager in the transfer window, MM in January 2015 and January 2020 with PL. The lack of any significant transfer business has ultimately cost us promotion on both occasions. |
Pfft. January 2020!? ‘Lack of investment ultimately costing us promotion’. Give over. |  | | |
| Five Point Protest being launched on 08:22 - Mar 6 with 2389 views | Chrisd |
| Five Point Protest being launched on 08:16 - Mar 6 by Oxford_Blue |
But in both cases the team was already in the top two.
Who was it we would have brought in? Why would they have guaranteed success?
Not sure it’s as simple as that. |
That was exactly the time to capitalise and cement our position. Good sides always strengthen when at their strongest, look at Ferguson at United? That's ME, always missing a trick, content to plod along and doing things to the bare minimum. This is just my opinion, ME is part of the continued problem at Town and has been for the last decade. His failings in making countless poor decision, on top of poor decision has been detrimental in our fall from grace. | |
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| Five Point Protest being launched on 08:23 - Mar 6 with 2387 views | Chrisd |
| Five Point Protest being launched on 08:17 - Mar 6 by WD19 |
Pfft. January 2020!? ‘Lack of investment ultimately costing us promotion’. Give over. |
Top of the league at that point. One decent striker that's probably all that it would've taken, score goals regularly and boost confidence. [Post edited 6 Mar 2020 8:26]
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| Five Point Protest being launched on 08:27 - Mar 6 with 2379 views | Oxford_Blue |
| Five Point Protest being launched on 08:22 - Mar 6 by Chrisd |
That was exactly the time to capitalise and cement our position. Good sides always strengthen when at their strongest, look at Ferguson at United? That's ME, always missing a trick, content to plod along and doing things to the bare minimum. This is just my opinion, ME is part of the continued problem at Town and has been for the last decade. His failings in making countless poor decision, on top of poor decision has been detrimental in our fall from grace. |
I agree that in an ideal world every team would cement a position.
But the question was what decision has significantly contributed to our current position (relegation and now failure to get promoted). The 2015 window didn’t directly affect relegation - it was four years before. It may have impacted promotion but then as I say the team was already in the top two and when Evans had given money to previous managers it hadn’t worked.
The Jan 2020 window was not a significant factor either. The team was already top / near the top and had a large squad, with one of the top wave budgets.
So I’m not seeing any evidence that decisions made by Evans have materially caused the position we are in. I think it’s about the managers. And in fact his appointment of MM was a very good one but the fans played a part in that relationship ending. | | | |
| Five Point Protest being launched on 08:28 - Mar 6 with 2375 views | itfcjoe |
| Five Point Protest being launched on 08:23 - Mar 6 by Chrisd |
Top of the league at that point. One decent striker that's probably all that it would've taken, score goals regularly and boost confidence. [Post edited 6 Mar 2020 8:26]
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We were very close to a striker but couldn't get it over the line due to factors outside our control.
But a striker wouldn't have turned 4 points from 8 games into the 14 or so that needed to be at a bare minimum |  |
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| Five Point Protest being launched on 08:30 - Mar 6 with 2373 views | Chrisd |
| Five Point Protest being launched on 08:27 - Mar 6 by Oxford_Blue |
I agree that in an ideal world every team would cement a position.
But the question was what decision has significantly contributed to our current position (relegation and now failure to get promoted). The 2015 window didn’t directly affect relegation - it was four years before. It may have impacted promotion but then as I say the team was already in the top two and when Evans had given money to previous managers it hadn’t worked.
The Jan 2020 window was not a significant factor either. The team was already top / near the top and had a large squad, with one of the top wave budgets.
So I’m not seeing any evidence that decisions made by Evans have materially caused the position we are in. I think it’s about the managers. And in fact his appointment of MM was a very good one but the fans played a part in that relationship ending. |
A significant signing in both those scenarios would've made a huge a difference. | |
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| Five Point Protest being launched on 08:36 - Mar 6 with 2359 views | Oxford_Blue |
| Five Point Protest being launched on 08:30 - Mar 6 by Chrisd |
A significant signing in both those scenarios would've made a huge a difference. |
There is no evidence that this is the case. Magilton, Keane and Jewell all made significant signings and paid a lot of money and none of them worked. It is far from clear that one signing made in January 2015 would have got us promoted or prevented relegation. Relegation was nearly five years later. As for Jan 2020, as has been pointed out repeatedly, the team was already in the top two. The failure since then is not because of one player not being bought (and you don’t even say who that should have been).
In any event, had Evans not taken over the club, we would have had no money for players anyway and nor would the operating losses have been covered.
It’s interesting that Evans gets this blame yet no one can actually point to a clear cut example of what decisions have caused our current position. My view is the managers he appointed were reasonable appointments at the time and they have all massively failed him apart from MM. | | | |
| Five Point Protest being launched on 09:04 - Mar 6 with 2327 views | patrickswell |
| Five Point Protest being launched on 08:16 - Mar 6 by Oxford_Blue |
But in both cases the team was already in the top two.
Who was it we would have brought in? Why would they have guaranteed success?
Not sure it’s as simple as that. |
The bungling of the position of strength we appeared to be in after 2014-15 is his most damning act. The team was on an upward curve under Mick’s first two years, but the near tailing off from automatic promotion to nearly missing the top 6 should have been a signal that the squad needed more depth in terms of quality. Evans’s response was to make money available for Piotr Malarczyk and Larsen Toure.
As a result, the culture of drift and ennui started to seep into the club. It ultimately engulfed McCarthy and once we were back to having an incompetent in the manager’s seat, it drowned the club too. |  | | |
| Five Point Protest being launched on 09:05 - Mar 6 with 2323 views | Chrisd |
| Five Point Protest being launched on 08:36 - Mar 6 by Oxford_Blue |
There is no evidence that this is the case. Magilton, Keane and Jewell all made significant signings and paid a lot of money and none of them worked. It is far from clear that one signing made in January 2015 would have got us promoted or prevented relegation. Relegation was nearly five years later. As for Jan 2020, as has been pointed out repeatedly, the team was already in the top two. The failure since then is not because of one player not being bought (and you don’t even say who that should have been).
In any event, had Evans not taken over the club, we would have had no money for players anyway and nor would the operating losses have been covered.
It’s interesting that Evans gets this blame yet no one can actually point to a clear cut example of what decisions have caused our current position. My view is the managers he appointed were reasonable appointments at the time and they have all massively failed him apart from MM. |
We weren’t top of the league at those points in time though under JM, RK or PJ. One player can have a huge impact and make a big difference. At times, it can galvanise a team. I appreciate it can’t conclusively be proved, but the right signing at those points in time could’ve tipped the balance and there lies the difference. In both cases, it’s a sliding doors moment which another poster alluded to a couple of days ago. | |
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| Five Point Protest being launched on 09:06 - Mar 6 with 2320 views | Keaneish |
| Five Point Protest being launched on 21:38 - Mar 5 by WD19 |
Jesus wept. Putting words in PowerPoint with a glossy background doesn’t make them any more valid. Nor does using 200 words when 20 will do.
E.g.
Transfers: We have been a bit sh!t at this lately. It would be good if we were less sh1t in future. |
Terrible font choice and weight too. If only they’d used Keynote and employed a designer, ME might have listened. |  |
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| Five Point Protest being launched on 09:22 - Mar 6 with 2293 views | Oxford_Blue |
| Five Point Protest being launched on 09:05 - Mar 6 by Chrisd |
We weren’t top of the league at those points in time though under JM, RK or PJ. One player can have a huge impact and make a big difference. At times, it can galvanise a team. I appreciate it can’t conclusively be proved, but the right signing at those points in time could’ve tipped the balance and there lies the difference. In both cases, it’s a sliding doors moment which another poster alluded to a couple of days ago. |
Maybe - but my point is it’s speculation. It’s going too far to say that if Evans has done x then the team would be in y position.
You could make the case that as Burley found out to his cost, disrupting a team dynamic can be a bad thing by bringing in big name signings. Was there actually anyone that MM wanted in January 2015? Or is is just speculation?
But as I’ve said before, without Evans we wouldn’t have had money for any players at all and would have sold players to balance the books. | | | |
| Five Point Protest being launched on 09:25 - Mar 6 with 2289 views | Oxford_Blue |
| Five Point Protest being launched on 09:04 - Mar 6 by patrickswell |
The bungling of the position of strength we appeared to be in after 2014-15 is his most damning act. The team was on an upward curve under Mick’s first two years, but the near tailing off from automatic promotion to nearly missing the top 6 should have been a signal that the squad needed more depth in terms of quality. Evans’s response was to make money available for Piotr Malarczyk and Larsen Toure.
As a result, the culture of drift and ennui started to seep into the club. It ultimately engulfed McCarthy and once we were back to having an incompetent in the manager’s seat, it drowned the club too. |
You’re assuming that Evans has the money available. I’m not sure he does. His businesses have taken a hit since the downturn because corporate hospitality is one of the first things to be cut. Yes he’s worth a reported £800m but that is very different from having tens of millions to burn.
You can point to any owner of any club and cherry pick decisions. Nothing so far strikes me as terrible or negligent which is how it is portrayed by many fans. If Evans wasn’t at the club, we would have to have sold players to just balance the books. He’s put more money in than anyone else in the history of the club. | | | |
| Five Point Protest being launched on 09:39 - Mar 6 with 2281 views | r2d2 |
| Five Point Protest being launched on 21:45 - Mar 5 by JDB23 |
Depends what you define as success. If it’s getting to the Prem then I agree, but any half decent manager could get us out of this division, Evans or not. |
Im not sure they could. Not with these players, they just arnt good enough. |  | | |
| Five Point Protest being launched on 09:46 - Mar 6 with 2275 views | Chrisd |
| Five Point Protest being launched on 09:22 - Mar 6 by Oxford_Blue |
Maybe - but my point is it’s speculation. It’s going too far to say that if Evans has done x then the team would be in y position.
You could make the case that as Burley found out to his cost, disrupting a team dynamic can be a bad thing by bringing in big name signings. Was there actually anyone that MM wanted in January 2015? Or is is just speculation?
But as I’ve said before, without Evans we wouldn’t have had money for any players at all and would have sold players to balance the books. |
It's not speculation that our demise has been under ME's watch, that's conclusive. As an owner, he's one of the poorer ones and a hapless one at that. I can't really help you Oxford Blue, you've nailed your colours to the mast in support of ME, which is fine. I've said my piece, but for me he's very much part of the problem at the club. | |
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| Is this being organised by that.... on 09:49 - Mar 6 with 2278 views | Bloots |
....nerdy, weedy little kid that hangs around with the Fanzone lot?
It looks like a school project.
I did one on "Glaciers" once. |  |
| Elite Level Poster: Elite Level Supporter: Elite Level Human |
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| Five Point Protest being launched on 09:56 - Mar 6 with 2265 views | Oxford_Blue |
| Five Point Protest being launched on 09:46 - Mar 6 by Chrisd |
It's not speculation that our demise has been under ME's watch, that's conclusive. As an owner, he's one of the poorer ones and a hapless one at that. I can't really help you Oxford Blue, you've nailed your colours to the mast in support of ME, which is fine. I've said my piece, but for me he's very much part of the problem at the club. |
That’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying they the demise is obvious but the reasons are not. Apart from two transfer windows, one five years ago unconnected to relegation and the other whilst we were top two or three, neither of which would have necessarily changed things anyway given that the millions spent before did nothing, I can’t see what Evans has done so badly. He picks the management and trusts them to get on with it. He has supported managers but we have to accept he doesn’t have the funds in cash to compete. Just look at Companies House. His companies are making little profit. The market has collapsed. | | | |
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