| Not a good day for the Government in the media 10:16 - Apr 2 with 8265 views | itfcjoe |
Seems almost every front page has turned on them
They are in a mess with all this testing, or lack of testing - and not communicating a clear message now. The lockdown was probably too late, and now the death toll is rising whilst 'Stay at home, stay safe' is still the only message
WHO have been saying Test, Test, Test - 2.5 weeks ago we said we wouldn't be testing - and now we need to start testing we are way behind the rest of the world in sourcing anything.
Boris wanted to come out of this looking like Churchill, he won't. |  |
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| Not a good day for the Government in the media on 11:04 - Apr 2 with 702 views | giant_stow |
| Not a good day for the Government in the media on 10:54 - Apr 2 by gordon |
If we're imagining a situation where people take the antibody test and if it shows you've had the virus you can go back to normal, then:
a) it's infeasible that there will be enough antibody tests for everyone for a very long time, so who will they be allocated to?
b) they would be hoarded if they were available to buy - you would just buy loads of them to test yourself every couple of weeks just in case.
c) They would reward those individuals that were less diligent in the initial phase of the outbreak, and caught it by e.g. going out to the pub in contradiction to the advice (and penalise those who effectively practised social distancing).
d) this would create an incentive for individuals to catch the virus, so they could get to the stage of being allowed to go back to normal quicker
e) how would people prove their test results - and would people be able to obtain fakes of these - would the police be able to stop people on the streets and ask to see their test results?
These are just some of the problems - the idea that it is a silver bullet is massively misguided, and is again the result of awful government communication. [Post edited 2 Apr 2020 11:01]
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Very interesting thoughts - thanks - all adds up. |  |
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| Not a good day for the Government in the media on 11:06 - Apr 2 with 695 views | monytowbray |
| Not a good day for the Government in the media on 11:02 - Apr 2 by Mullet |
Precisely, there's plenty of Churchills he's been like, just not the one people remember fondly.
I'm still baffled by all the Tory apologists and "shut up and sport our Boris" type posturing, can only assume it's fear and blind loyalty. The knock on effects of not coming down on those flouting the advice and measures and mealy-mouthed communication of "jam for all" with no real substance is not being counted and felt in full yet it seems.
The Dyson scandal will come back to light afterwards too unfortunately. |
If we found out beer and sports equipment was the cure tomorrow, and the EU offered a stock pile of free lager/trackies, we’d still end up missing out and paying Tim Martin/Mike Ashley to solve the problem.
Again, as I said yesterday, everything is money with this lot. |  |
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| Not a good day for the Government in the media on 11:12 - Apr 2 with 676 views | Pinewoodblue |
I know the Government is ultimately responsible but the problem appears to lye within the NHS supply chain which I understand to be held together by red tape.
I’m sure we have an expert on here who can comment. |  |
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| At least we are not in the USA Joe... on 11:14 - Apr 2 with 676 views | unstableblue |
.... where the press are not even allowed to questions the leaders on any issues?!
Trump calls any challenging question'nasty' and fake news, 'you're a terrible reporter', and ignores them
Interestingly, when his ally Fox News does finally question him a challenging way (so he has to answer) he plain lies and then starts to say "are you becoming CNN" so straight up challenging that any media scrutiny is even allowed:
https://theintercept.com/2020/04/01/trump-lies-cutting-white-house-pandemic-team
Again this comes back to Boris and his key ministers refusing to go on the Today programme as they knew it was intense scrutiny, so they avoided with fluffy comments on BBC bias |  |
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| Not a good day for the Government in the media on 11:14 - Apr 2 with 674 views | factual_blue |
| Not a good day for the Government in the media on 10:38 - Apr 2 by Swansea_Blue |
I think he's doing a fantastic impression of a war time PM - Chamberlain. Worth remembering what had to happen to him before we could make any progress.
You know things are bad for them when the now rag-like Telegraph turns. Hopefully this'll be the start of the path to redemption for the Torygraph. Even though it's not my cup of tea, it's sad to see that historic paper in such a state these days. |
His appeasement policy was, however, wise.
It's worth remembering that overall the British performed less well militarily during WW2 than some would have us believe. That's partly because Churchill got in first with his history of the war, and that's basically the version most people believe. |  |
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| Not a good day for the Government in the media on 11:17 - Apr 2 with 661 views | Tangledupin_Blue |
| Not a good day for the Government in the media on 10:19 - Apr 2 by Bluefish |
The government should give a clear message and they haven't, they should also only announce targets that they intend to meet.
I would like to know the specific benefits of testing though. All it does at this stage is help statistics. They is no antidote and it is not known if you can catch it twice |
Suppose you have a front-line medical worker whose family member gas a cough. Without testing they must self isolate for 14 days because of the possibility of the famIly member having CV. With testing they could establish that there is no CV (or otherwise) and the medical worker can return to the battle. At the moment there are many, many medical staff isolating and those few who are being tested are mostly finding that they are clear of the virus.
There are several other practical benefits of testing but this is one of the main ones in need of urgent addressing |  |
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| Not a good day for the Government in the media on 11:24 - Apr 2 with 634 views | BlueBadger |
He'll come out of it looking like the Churchill of Souvla Bay and Tonypandy, not the Churchill of 1939-45. |  |
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| Not a good day for the Government in the media on 11:25 - Apr 2 with 633 views | monytowbray |
| Not a good day for the Government in the media on 11:14 - Apr 2 by factual_blue |
His appeasement policy was, however, wise.
It's worth remembering that overall the British performed less well militarily during WW2 than some would have us believe. That's partly because Churchill got in first with his history of the war, and that's basically the version most people believe. |
If we didn’t have water between us and Europe I imagine things could be quite different. It was the radar towers that kept us going, the RAF would have been stretched too thin if we were having to guess where the next attacks were coming from.
Hitler got very close to taking Moscow if not for redirecting troops 4 days from Moscow south to help with another blitzkrieg. | |
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| Not a good day for the Government in the media on 11:32 - Apr 2 with 608 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Not a good day for the Government in the media on 11:25 - Apr 2 by monytowbray |
If we didn’t have water between us and Europe I imagine things could be quite different. It was the radar towers that kept us going, the RAF would have been stretched too thin if we were having to guess where the next attacks were coming from.
Hitler got very close to taking Moscow if not for redirecting troops 4 days from Moscow south to help with another blitzkrieg. |
Suppose with radar you could say every ‘ping’ was a test.
Test, test, test is the key. | |
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| Not a good day for the Government in the media on 11:33 - Apr 2 with 605 views | factual_blue |
| Not a good day for the Government in the media on 11:25 - Apr 2 by monytowbray |
If we didn’t have water between us and Europe I imagine things could be quite different. It was the radar towers that kept us going, the RAF would have been stretched too thin if we were having to guess where the next attacks were coming from.
Hitler got very close to taking Moscow if not for redirecting troops 4 days from Moscow south to help with another blitzkrieg. |
Operation Sea Lion, the invasion planned for September 1940 would have failed. | |
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| Not a good day for the Government in the media on 11:34 - Apr 2 with 604 views | monytowbray |
| Not a good day for the Government in the media on 11:32 - Apr 2 by Pinewoodblue |
Suppose with radar you could say every ‘ping’ was a test.
Test, test, test is the key. |
Oh daaaaang. | |
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| Not a good day for the Government in the media on 11:37 - Apr 2 with 600 views | monytowbray |
| Not a good day for the Government in the media on 11:33 - Apr 2 by factual_blue |
Operation Sea Lion, the invasion planned for September 1940 would have failed. |
If they had of carried on putting pressure on us in the air I understand we would have ended up losing too many aircrafts to carry on. Sending planes out was more of a deterrent than anything. A lost response is better than no response. | |
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| Not a good day for the Government in the media on 11:38 - Apr 2 with 595 views | WeWereZombies |
| Not a good day for the Government in the media on 11:14 - Apr 2 by factual_blue |
His appeasement policy was, however, wise.
It's worth remembering that overall the British performed less well militarily during WW2 than some would have us believe. That's partly because Churchill got in first with his history of the war, and that's basically the version most people believe. |
It is not a question of believing Churchill's history of 'The Second World War' (in six volumes) but in appreciating that it is written with privileged information, few others could have had the perspective that he had. However it is not, for all its length and detail, a comprehensive account and should only be taken for what it is - a well written series by a leader at that time, and it does stray into autobiography a fair bit.
You should not discount it because other books, 'Nella Last's War: A Mother's Diary 1939-45' for example, shine a light where Churchill does not (and could not) or where an account with much hindsight and the release of information from the Official Secrets Act such as 'Enigma: The Battle for the Code' by Hugh Sebag-Montefiore benefit accordingly.
Inevitably there will be conflicts in the reading of 'what actually happened' and instances where Churchill gives an over favourable spin to events: The West Bengal Famine, the abandonment of the 51st (Highland) Division in June 1940, failure to rein in Truman on the atomic bomb, ease with which he fell under Stalin's spell. It is quite a calamitous list when viewed looking back but you need the perspective of 'The Second World War' in six volumes to understand why things happened in the way they did. |  |
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| Not a good day for the Government in the media on 11:39 - Apr 2 with 587 views | monytowbray |
| Not a good day for the Government in the media on 11:38 - Apr 2 by WeWereZombies |
It is not a question of believing Churchill's history of 'The Second World War' (in six volumes) but in appreciating that it is written with privileged information, few others could have had the perspective that he had. However it is not, for all its length and detail, a comprehensive account and should only be taken for what it is - a well written series by a leader at that time, and it does stray into autobiography a fair bit.
You should not discount it because other books, 'Nella Last's War: A Mother's Diary 1939-45' for example, shine a light where Churchill does not (and could not) or where an account with much hindsight and the release of information from the Official Secrets Act such as 'Enigma: The Battle for the Code' by Hugh Sebag-Montefiore benefit accordingly.
Inevitably there will be conflicts in the reading of 'what actually happened' and instances where Churchill gives an over favourable spin to events: The West Bengal Famine, the abandonment of the 51st (Highland) Division in June 1940, failure to rein in Truman on the atomic bomb, ease with which he fell under Stalin's spell. It is quite a calamitous list when viewed looking back but you need the perspective of 'The Second World War' in six volumes to understand why things happened in the way they did. |
I found WWII in Colour on Netflix did a good job of removing the GREAT Great Britain aspect of it all. | |
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| Not a good day for the Government in the media on 11:41 - Apr 2 with 578 views | Guthrum |
| Not a good day for the Government in the media on 10:38 - Apr 2 by Swansea_Blue |
I think he's doing a fantastic impression of a war time PM - Chamberlain. Worth remembering what had to happen to him before we could make any progress.
You know things are bad for them when the now rag-like Telegraph turns. Hopefully this'll be the start of the path to redemption for the Torygraph. Even though it's not my cup of tea, it's sad to see that historic paper in such a state these days. |
People forget that in 1942 Churchill was nearly overthrown because of the way things were unravelling under his leadership. |  |
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| Not a good day for the Government in the media on 11:43 - Apr 2 with 573 views | BlueBadger |
| Not a good day for the Government in the media on 11:14 - Apr 2 by factual_blue |
His appeasement policy was, however, wise.
It's worth remembering that overall the British performed less well militarily during WW2 than some would have us believe. That's partly because Churchill got in first with his history of the war, and that's basically the version most people believe. |
I'm reminded of Spike Milligan's chat with a Dunkirk vet - 'what was it like? A f*ck up. A highly organised f*ck up'. | |
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| Not a good day for the Government in the media on 11:44 - Apr 2 with 567 views | PJH |
| Not a good day for the Government in the media on 11:38 - Apr 2 by WeWereZombies |
It is not a question of believing Churchill's history of 'The Second World War' (in six volumes) but in appreciating that it is written with privileged information, few others could have had the perspective that he had. However it is not, for all its length and detail, a comprehensive account and should only be taken for what it is - a well written series by a leader at that time, and it does stray into autobiography a fair bit.
You should not discount it because other books, 'Nella Last's War: A Mother's Diary 1939-45' for example, shine a light where Churchill does not (and could not) or where an account with much hindsight and the release of information from the Official Secrets Act such as 'Enigma: The Battle for the Code' by Hugh Sebag-Montefiore benefit accordingly.
Inevitably there will be conflicts in the reading of 'what actually happened' and instances where Churchill gives an over favourable spin to events: The West Bengal Famine, the abandonment of the 51st (Highland) Division in June 1940, failure to rein in Truman on the atomic bomb, ease with which he fell under Stalin's spell. It is quite a calamitous list when viewed looking back but you need the perspective of 'The Second World War' in six volumes to understand why things happened in the way they did. |
I actually have those six volumes in paperback purchased second hand a few years ago but have never got round to starting to read them. |  | | |
| Not a good day for the Government in the media on 11:46 - Apr 2 with 561 views | itfcjoe |
| Not a good day for the Government in the media on 11:25 - Apr 2 by monytowbray |
If we didn’t have water between us and Europe I imagine things could be quite different. It was the radar towers that kept us going, the RAF would have been stretched too thin if we were having to guess where the next attacks were coming from.
Hitler got very close to taking Moscow if not for redirecting troops 4 days from Moscow south to help with another blitzkrieg. |
We did have the water though, and you lead to the conditions in place | |
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| Not a good day for the Government in the media on 11:47 - Apr 2 with 559 views | monytowbray |
| Not a good day for the Government in the media on 11:43 - Apr 2 by BlueBadger |
I'm reminded of Spike Milligan's chat with a Dunkirk vet - 'what was it like? A f*ck up. A highly organised f*ck up'. |
My Great Grandad was at Dunkirk. died just before I was born. He used to joke they gave him a medal for running away and he was the best runner away of them all. He was already a vet for volunteering to fight for the commies in the Spanish War too so I'm sad I never got to meet him and hear his stories first hand.
But he also had some bad PTSD from what he saw at Dunkirk too apparently. | |
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| Not a good day for the Government in the media on 11:49 - Apr 2 with 545 views | monytowbray |
| Not a good day for the Government in the media on 11:46 - Apr 2 by itfcjoe |
We did have the water though, and you lead to the conditions in place |
Oh yeah, for sure. But I think a lot of people forget there was a lot of luck and poor choices by Hitler that led to their defeat more than the fight Good Ol' Blighty (not to discredit what we did achieve and the lives lost). | |
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| Not a good day for the Government in the media on 11:50 - Apr 2 with 537 views | Guthrum |
| Not a good day for the Government in the media on 11:37 - Apr 2 by monytowbray |
If they had of carried on putting pressure on us in the air I understand we would have ended up losing too many aircrafts to carry on. Sending planes out was more of a deterrent than anything. A lost response is better than no response. |
Not actually true. We were repairing and (thanks to Max Beaverbrook's organisation) building as many 'planes as we were losing. We also still had reserves in the North.
Plus our crew who managed to bail out did so over friendly territory, thus were able to fly again. | |
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| Not a good day for the Government in the media on 11:51 - Apr 2 with 529 views | Guthrum |
| Not a good day for the Government in the media on 10:52 - Apr 2 by monytowbray |
It’s been the case since day one.
Almost as if you can’t trust authority by default. |
Or that organising these things is a lot more difficult than it appears from the outside. | |
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| Not a good day for the Government in the media on 11:52 - Apr 2 with 526 views | WeWereZombies |
| Not a good day for the Government in the media on 11:44 - Apr 2 by PJH |
I actually have those six volumes in paperback purchased second hand a few years ago but have never got round to starting to read them. |
To be honest I have only read the first two so far but they are highly revealing even taking into account the author and the restrictions under which they were written. They give fantastic detail to the books others have written and the best of those books give a critical eye to read Churchill with. | |
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| Not a good day for the Government in the media on 11:52 - Apr 2 with 520 views | giant_stow |
| Not a good day for the Government in the media on 11:41 - Apr 2 by Guthrum |
People forget that in 1942 Churchill was nearly overthrown because of the way things were unravelling under his leadership. |
What?!
Fancy telling the tale? | |
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| Not a good day for the Government in the media on 11:52 - Apr 2 with 519 views | monytowbray |
| Not a good day for the Government in the media on 11:51 - Apr 2 by Guthrum |
Or that organising these things is a lot more difficult than it appears from the outside. |
There's difficulty in organising, and then there's a lack of transparency and twisting facts though. | |
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