| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... 08:34 - Apr 17 with 5428 views | ITFC_Forever |
....as they have no idea who has / hasn't got / has had the virus, and won't have for weeks, if not months. |  |
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| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 12:44 - Apr 17 with 587 views | monytowbray |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 12:39 - Apr 17 by Pinewoodblue |
Someone who thinks he/she is an expert when in fact they are nothing of the sort.
For the record I am not a climate denier, but it interesting how quickly things seem to be improving climate wise due to the impact of C-19. |
It’s done us a favour in that regard. If people think COVID is scary wait until climate change wipes out our ability to grow food whilst displacing vast chunks of the population from their native lands.
I don’t get why people get so uppity about others being right because they don’t like who is making the point and how. I think Piers Morgan is a bellend but he’s been on the ball a lot the last month.
See also: Callis and veganism 3 years ago vs. TWTD. I think Lagos once said I should be owed an apology for the stick I got there seeing as general consensus of the board agrees with my points these days. But when he said that all he got was the usual suspects saying “But Callis”.
I am from the future and no one believes me. Time travel is cool. [Post edited 17 Apr 2020 12:48]
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| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 12:45 - Apr 17 with 584 views | Darth_Koont |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 12:39 - Apr 17 by Pinewoodblue |
Someone who thinks he/she is an expert when in fact they are nothing of the sort.
For the record I am not a climate denier, but it interesting how quickly things seem to be improving climate wise due to the impact of C-19. |
Actually, I think that Greta is pretty consistent in saying "Listen to the experts". In fact, that's the main thrust of her activism towards politicians. She isn't saying she is an expert. |  |
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| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 13:18 - Apr 17 with 545 views | Lord_Lucan |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 12:13 - Apr 17 by Radlett_blue |
1. The WHO does not have a monopoly on wisdom.
2. As a non governmental organisation, it has a very different agenda, with no responsibility for funding & maintaining public services. |
And the fact that it's largest cash cow is an individual is frightening. |  |
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| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 13:22 - Apr 17 with 540 views | gordon |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 12:12 - Apr 17 by lowhouseblue |
what exactly literally happened?
the epidemiologists said that part of the process by which a virus out break is contained is through the development of herd immunity, and there is a conflict between shielding everyone from the virus and developing herd immunity.
as i understand it that is a simple statement of scientific fact. it is central to the study of all virus outbreaks. herd immunity is a very good thing.
what else do you think literally happened? or are you inventing stuff? |
Here's a professor of public health at Imperial College London:
"It’s now clear that so many people have died, and so many more are desperately ill, simply because our politicians refused to listen to and act on advice. Scientists like us said lock down earlier; we said test, trace, isolate. But they decided they knew better."
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/15/uk-government-coronavirus- |  | | |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 13:27 - Apr 17 with 532 views | Radlett_blue |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 13:18 - Apr 17 by Lord_Lucan |
And the fact that it's largest cash cow is an individual is frightening. |
2019 report ... The World Health Organisation spent $192 million on travel expenses last year, with staffers sometimes breaking the agency’s own rules by travelling in business class. Obviously an organisation of this nature is going to run up a reasonable travel bill, but this looks somewhat excessive. |  |
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| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 13:28 - Apr 17 with 529 views | sparks |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 13:22 - Apr 17 by gordon |
Here's a professor of public health at Imperial College London:
"It’s now clear that so many people have died, and so many more are desperately ill, simply because our politicians refused to listen to and act on advice. Scientists like us said lock down earlier; we said test, trace, isolate. But they decided they knew better."
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/15/uk-government-coronavirus- |
This is simply nonsense though. Especially in context of you making the point that scientific opinion varies and changes.
Which brings us back to the point made earlier which you deflected. Are you saying that the govt did NOT follow the advice they received from senior scientific advisers, and if so, are those advisers lying about their involvement? |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 13:39 - Apr 17 with 513 views | monytowbray |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 13:28 - Apr 17 by sparks |
This is simply nonsense though. Especially in context of you making the point that scientific opinion varies and changes.
Which brings us back to the point made earlier which you deflected. Are you saying that the govt did NOT follow the advice they received from senior scientific advisers, and if so, are those advisers lying about their involvement? |
It amazes me someone who screamed TRUST THE EXPERTS YOU'RE NOT ONE four weeks ago is now doing exactly that.
When is Phil going to invest some budget in TWTD self-awareness courses?! [Post edited 17 Apr 2020 13:40]
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| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 13:42 - Apr 17 with 510 views | monytowbray |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 13:27 - Apr 17 by Radlett_blue |
2019 report ... The World Health Organisation spent $192 million on travel expenses last year, with staffers sometimes breaking the agency’s own rules by travelling in business class. Obviously an organisation of this nature is going to run up a reasonable travel bill, but this looks somewhat excessive. |
If that annoys you just you wait until you see what Conservative MPs spend their tax funded expenses on. Or what the super rich have done with all the money they've stolen from the trickle down economic fountain via tax avoidance.
Not to defend the WHO, but also everyone is at it. | |
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| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 13:43 - Apr 17 with 514 views | gordon |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 13:28 - Apr 17 by sparks |
This is simply nonsense though. Especially in context of you making the point that scientific opinion varies and changes.
Which brings us back to the point made earlier which you deflected. Are you saying that the govt did NOT follow the advice they received from senior scientific advisers, and if so, are those advisers lying about their involvement? |
There is a lot of dissent within the scientific community around the UK's strategy, so for the Government to say that they are following 'the science' as if 'the science' is a single entity is not justified. That's the extent of my point.
As a scientist, this is a really straightforward and obvious thing to point out - it isn't innuendo, I'm not making any insinuation or accusing anyone of lying, I'm just stating a rather obvious fact about the public discourse around coronavirus. Chris Witty and Patrick Vallance would agree with me on this, trust me! | | | |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 13:52 - Apr 17 with 504 views | longtimefan |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 12:24 - Apr 17 by WD19 |
The government scientists working assumption is that in the general population the level of having had it is 2-5%. Much lower than I would have thought and many ppl assume. |
Personally, from the statistics worldwide, I’d be somewhat surprised if it were anywhere near the 5% figure. 5% in the UK would be over 3 million people! Given there have only been 2 million positive tests worldwide that sounds very high. In UK, even though we are generally only testing those with symptoms, only 25% of tests are proving positive. I readily accept the UK numbers are vastly larger than stated though. |  | | |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 13:54 - Apr 17 with 495 views | MarinerisGod |
convenient that.. |  |
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| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 13:55 - Apr 17 with 501 views | longtimefan |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 13:43 - Apr 17 by gordon |
There is a lot of dissent within the scientific community around the UK's strategy, so for the Government to say that they are following 'the science' as if 'the science' is a single entity is not justified. That's the extent of my point.
As a scientist, this is a really straightforward and obvious thing to point out - it isn't innuendo, I'm not making any insinuation or accusing anyone of lying, I'm just stating a rather obvious fact about the public discourse around coronavirus. Chris Witty and Patrick Vallance would agree with me on this, trust me! |
Not all scientists think the same or agree. Who’d a thunk it  | | | |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 13:57 - Apr 17 with 492 views | monytowbray |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 13:55 - Apr 17 by longtimefan |
Not all scientists think the same or agree. Who’d a thunk it |
Sparks wouldn't have, apparently... | |
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| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 13:58 - Apr 17 with 497 views | sparks |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 13:43 - Apr 17 by gordon |
There is a lot of dissent within the scientific community around the UK's strategy, so for the Government to say that they are following 'the science' as if 'the science' is a single entity is not justified. That's the extent of my point.
As a scientist, this is a really straightforward and obvious thing to point out - it isn't innuendo, I'm not making any insinuation or accusing anyone of lying, I'm just stating a rather obvious fact about the public discourse around coronavirus. Chris Witty and Patrick Vallance would agree with me on this, trust me! |
You make this very obvious point - with which I dont disagree- but then you add innuendo about people dissenting form the UK position. Of course professional judgment varies. the question was whether the govt have followed their senior advisers or not. You seem to suggest perhaps they havent.... | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 14:01 - Apr 17 with 488 views | monytowbray |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 13:58 - Apr 17 by sparks |
You make this very obvious point - with which I dont disagree- but then you add innuendo about people dissenting form the UK position. Of course professional judgment varies. the question was whether the govt have followed their senior advisers or not. You seem to suggest perhaps they havent.... |
Depends what the brief for the plan was. You'd be amazed what you can get an expert to knock up when you tell them what the conclusion should be.
Purely speculative that happened, but I wouldn't put it past our lot to find the evidence they needed to support a plan where the economy comes first despite overwhelming factors to public health. | |
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| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 14:09 - Apr 17 with 483 views | gordon |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 13:58 - Apr 17 by sparks |
You make this very obvious point - with which I dont disagree- but then you add innuendo about people dissenting form the UK position. Of course professional judgment varies. the question was whether the govt have followed their senior advisers or not. You seem to suggest perhaps they havent.... |
It isn't innuendo to point out that there's an awful lot of distinguished scientists who think that the approach is resulting in unnecessary death and prolonged lockdown. | | | |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 14:15 - Apr 17 with 475 views | sparks |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 14:09 - Apr 17 by gordon |
It isn't innuendo to point out that there's an awful lot of distinguished scientists who think that the approach is resulting in unnecessary death and prolonged lockdown. |
Noone disputes that there is varied opinion (though it remains, arguably, too early to make a proper assessment).
But you are posting quotes which say "politicians failed to listen" etc.
The innuendo being that there was some ignoring of advice etc or something else going wrong. As far as we know, they firmly followed the advice of the most senior expert advisers. Do you say otherwise? If not, how can it be down to the government failing to listen? | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 14:17 - Apr 17 with 472 views | gordon |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 14:15 - Apr 17 by sparks |
Noone disputes that there is varied opinion (though it remains, arguably, too early to make a proper assessment).
But you are posting quotes which say "politicians failed to listen" etc.
The innuendo being that there was some ignoring of advice etc or something else going wrong. As far as we know, they firmly followed the advice of the most senior expert advisers. Do you say otherwise? If not, how can it be down to the government failing to listen? |
That was a quote from a Professor of Public Health at Imperial College London, who have been heavily involved in the Government's decision-making process. | | | |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 14:31 - Apr 17 with 460 views | sparks |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 14:17 - Apr 17 by gordon |
That was a quote from a Professor of Public Health at Imperial College London, who have been heavily involved in the Government's decision-making process. |
So what is it you are saying?!!!
When asked, you keep saying that you are just making the point that there is diverse opinion. Which is entirely obvious to most of us.
But then you come back with suggestions that advice has not been heeded or governments are doing their own thing. .. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 14:39 - Apr 17 with 439 views | Pinewoodblue |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 14:17 - Apr 17 by gordon |
That was a quote from a Professor of Public Health at Imperial College London, who have been heavily involved in the Government's decision-making process. |
The government isn’t reliant of the opinion of individual experts but on a consensus. There will always be experts who disagree, some will want stricter measures while others will consider the restriction imposed are too severe.
Leave it to the experts to give appropriate advice. |  |
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| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 14:48 - Apr 17 with 422 views | Darth_Koont |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 14:39 - Apr 17 by Pinewoodblue |
The government isn’t reliant of the opinion of individual experts but on a consensus. There will always be experts who disagree, some will want stricter measures while others will consider the restriction imposed are too severe.
Leave it to the experts to give appropriate advice. |
Imagine if some of those experts are pollsters, political scientists and disaster capitalists.
Not sure that's the sort of consensus I want. | |
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| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 14:51 - Apr 17 with 418 views | gordon |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 14:39 - Apr 17 by Pinewoodblue |
The government isn’t reliant of the opinion of individual experts but on a consensus. There will always be experts who disagree, some will want stricter measures while others will consider the restriction imposed are too severe.
Leave it to the experts to give appropriate advice. |
Do you know who is part of SAGE? | | | |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 14:55 - Apr 17 with 411 views | gordon |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 14:31 - Apr 17 by sparks |
So what is it you are saying?!!!
When asked, you keep saying that you are just making the point that there is diverse opinion. Which is entirely obvious to most of us.
But then you come back with suggestions that advice has not been heeded or governments are doing their own thing. .. |
We can't say whether they are following the advice from SAGE because their advice or minutes from their meetings isn't being published, and it isn't made public who is present at SAGE meetings. | | | |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 15:00 - Apr 17 with 406 views | giant_stow |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 12:44 - Apr 17 by sparks |
Noone rational relies on faith.
Noone rational and knowledgeable is unaware that scientific opinion varies and develops.
Criticism of the governments approach - seems absed on either innuendo that it ignored the science, or that it followed the wrong sicence (despite that being hte advice from its senior advisers). We have insufficient information to know if any of the criticisms are valid- so I will routinely point out where people are making flawed assertions without proper basis or evidence. Nothing more nothing less. |
Sorry to disagree with you mr, but you are indeed taking things on faith here, which does tickle me a bit.
You are assuming that the uk govt's advisors (senior or otherwise) are correct, while the advice offered to other counties is wrong. And you're doing so with absolutely no evidence! In fact the evidence (although still extremely murky) as it stands is increasingly pointing to the UK having a far worse pandemic than other countries following differring expert advise. Pure blind faith. [Post edited 17 Apr 2020 15:03]
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| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 15:13 - Apr 17 with 387 views | Pinewoodblue |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 14:51 - Apr 17 by gordon |
Do you know who is part of SAGE? |
I don’t need to. | |
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