| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... 08:34 - Apr 17 with 5442 views | ITFC_Forever |
....as they have no idea who has / hasn't got / has had the virus, and won't have for weeks, if not months. |  |
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| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 11:00 - Apr 17 with 646 views | giant_stow |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 10:45 - Apr 17 by Lord_Lucan |
I don't think that is the case, questioning is important. The problem is when some people are doing their best to twist things to find fault and revelling when they find bad news.
People on here and other social media platforms should realise that they don't know all the ins and outs (and I very much include me) and while they are sitting around in their pants there are a lot of people working like bastards trying to do the best they can in a situation no one in their life has come across before. |
You're absolutely right that most of us know nothing, but questionning and querying shouldn't ever be wrong. |  |
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| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 11:00 - Apr 17 with 644 views | sparks |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 10:52 - Apr 17 by gordon |
No, none of that, not sure where you've got any of that from.
I just think that understandably, people struggle to understand the limits to scientific knowledge/evidence in these situations (I'm saying that as a scientist), and at times the government are using this to shield themselves from criticism. |
I got it from your post which appeared to be suggesting that the their policy was a vessel for hte science...
Following the science is clearly following the best scientific advice they have been given. I dont think there is much wrong with that- save perhaps the wording if you are being pedantic.
I agree people dnot understand science. More importantly and problematically, they dont understand / accept "i dont know" as an answer... |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 11:02 - Apr 17 with 634 views | monytowbray |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 10:57 - Apr 17 by sparks |
Herd immmunity- is still a thing. And importantly, was not indicated as something that delayed lockdown... |
Herd immunity is a thing and will have to be long term at the right times, with a vaccine and with the right monitoring and forecasting in place.
We had none of the above. And still don’t really. Not to the levels we need. |  |
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| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 11:05 - Apr 17 with 628 views | giant_stow |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 11:00 - Apr 17 by sparks |
I got it from your post which appeared to be suggesting that the their policy was a vessel for hte science...
Following the science is clearly following the best scientific advice they have been given. I dont think there is much wrong with that- save perhaps the wording if you are being pedantic.
I agree people dnot understand science. More importantly and problematically, they dont understand / accept "i dont know" as an answer... |
I don;t think you understoud Gordon's point to be honest. 'Science' isn't a single entity - scientists diagree with each other. Even yesterday, there was a story about one of the main guys Neil Ferguson getting slapped down by Matt Hancock for suggesting the science (in his opinion) was poitning to different policies. The consesus moves all the time and is different in differetn countries -I repeat, what's wrong with questionning whether our scientists are right? | |
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| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 11:09 - Apr 17 with 617 views | Lord_Lucan |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 11:00 - Apr 17 by giant_stow |
You're absolutely right that most of us know nothing, but questionning and querying shouldn't ever be wrong. |
That's what I said Ullaa |  |
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| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 11:11 - Apr 17 with 614 views | linhdi |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 11:05 - Apr 17 by giant_stow |
I don;t think you understoud Gordon's point to be honest. 'Science' isn't a single entity - scientists diagree with each other. Even yesterday, there was a story about one of the main guys Neil Ferguson getting slapped down by Matt Hancock for suggesting the science (in his opinion) was poitning to different policies. The consesus moves all the time and is different in differetn countries -I repeat, what's wrong with questionning whether our scientists are right? |
Especially when "the science" our govt are quoting is at odds with the WHO's advice. |  | | |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 11:12 - Apr 17 with 609 views | giant_stow |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 11:09 - Apr 17 by Lord_Lucan |
That's what I said Ullaa |
Yeah it is, but I guess I was talking about what you said about people twisting stuff. One's man's twisting is another's questioning | |
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| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 11:13 - Apr 17 with 607 views | giant_stow |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 11:11 - Apr 17 by linhdi |
Especially when "the science" our govt are quoting is at odds with the WHO's advice. |
good point.
It's funny how people are actually acting with faith here. Faith that our scientists (the ones advising the govt at least) are right and everyone else is wrong. | |
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| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 11:35 - Apr 17 with 584 views | monytowbray |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 11:12 - Apr 17 by giant_stow |
Yeah it is, but I guess I was talking about what you said about people twisting stuff. One's man's twisting is another's questioning |
*WAVES* | |
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| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 11:44 - Apr 17 with 569 views | Darth_Koont |
The problem now is that the circus of our politics and media is getting in the way.
I know that Raab doesn't know.
I know that Kuenssberg doesn't know.
I want to hear the science and what the issues and options are around that. In other words, I want to hear the adults. [Post edited 17 Apr 2020 11:44]
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| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 12:11 - Apr 17 with 538 views | Radlett_blue |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 11:44 - Apr 17 by Darth_Koont |
The problem now is that the circus of our politics and media is getting in the way.
I know that Raab doesn't know.
I know that Kuenssberg doesn't know.
I want to hear the science and what the issues and options are around that. In other words, I want to hear the adults. [Post edited 17 Apr 2020 11:44]
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Patrick Vallance, Chief Scientific Adviser to the Government, usually talks sense. |  |
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| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 12:12 - Apr 17 with 531 views | lowhouseblue |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 09:32 - Apr 17 by monytowbray |
It was the stage that everyone who Shouted TRUST THE SCIENCE and POLITICAL POINT SCORING for an entire weekend in March now claim never happened.
Despite it being something that LITERALLY happened. |
what exactly literally happened?
the epidemiologists said that part of the process by which a virus out break is contained is through the development of herd immunity, and there is a conflict between shielding everyone from the virus and developing herd immunity.
as i understand it that is a simple statement of scientific fact. it is central to the study of all virus outbreaks. herd immunity is a very good thing.
what else do you think literally happened? or are you inventing stuff? |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 12:13 - Apr 17 with 533 views | Radlett_blue |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 11:11 - Apr 17 by linhdi |
Especially when "the science" our govt are quoting is at odds with the WHO's advice. |
1. The WHO does not have a monopoly on wisdom.
2. As a non governmental organisation, it has a very different agenda, with no responsibility for funding & maintaining public services. | |
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| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 12:20 - Apr 17 with 516 views | monytowbray |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 12:12 - Apr 17 by lowhouseblue |
what exactly literally happened?
the epidemiologists said that part of the process by which a virus out break is contained is through the development of herd immunity, and there is a conflict between shielding everyone from the virus and developing herd immunity.
as i understand it that is a simple statement of scientific fact. it is central to the study of all virus outbreaks. herd immunity is a very good thing.
what else do you think literally happened? or are you inventing stuff? |
We did nothing but say carry on as normal with a peak expected in the Summer and quickly backtracked after large scientific and healthcare expert pushback when it turned out we’d modelled on the wrong virus with a lower fatality % despite better data being available and hadn’t factored in the NHS’s ability to cope.
Herd immunity will be a part of this long term globally, has to be, but our approach ignored several factors to safeguard herd immunity and ensure it doesn’t have a negative impact in getting there. | |
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| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 12:22 - Apr 17 with 512 views | Darth_Koont |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 12:11 - Apr 17 by Radlett_blue |
Patrick Vallance, Chief Scientific Adviser to the Government, usually talks sense. |
Agreed.
I'd just like to hear more about the data being used and what are the parameters they're using. I can take a lack of a detailed plan or timeline. But in their absence it's a perfect time to discuss the overall approach to the data and the options. And indeed open it up for discussion - there's no harm in admitting that the answers aren't simple. | |
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| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 12:24 - Apr 17 with 508 views | WD19 |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 08:48 - Apr 17 by monytowbray |
They're banking it all on the antibody test from the sounds of it. Which is well and good when we have one but for now ramping up live testing would be a good start.
I do wonder what data exactly they're using at this point to inform stuff as we're not making many reliable sets of our own. |
The government scientists working assumption is that in the general population the level of having had it is 2-5%. Much lower than I would have thought and many ppl assume. |  | | |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 12:24 - Apr 17 with 504 views | lowhouseblue |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 12:20 - Apr 17 by monytowbray |
We did nothing but say carry on as normal with a peak expected in the Summer and quickly backtracked after large scientific and healthcare expert pushback when it turned out we’d modelled on the wrong virus with a lower fatality % despite better data being available and hadn’t factored in the NHS’s ability to cope.
Herd immunity will be a part of this long term globally, has to be, but our approach ignored several factors to safeguard herd immunity and ensure it doesn’t have a negative impact in getting there. |
can i have a link to someone - either government or advisor - saying ' carry on as normal'. the scientists openly discussed the conflict between a successful lock down and creating herd immunity - there is a genuine conflict there - nothing at all to show that it affected the timing of the lockdown. the nhs is coping. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 12:25 - Apr 17 with 503 views | monytowbray |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 12:22 - Apr 17 by Darth_Koont |
Agreed.
I'd just like to hear more about the data being used and what are the parameters they're using. I can take a lack of a detailed plan or timeline. But in their absence it's a perfect time to discuss the overall approach to the data and the options. And indeed open it up for discussion - there's no harm in admitting that the answers aren't simple. |
Most plans that involve managing a peak at least have ranges factored in of when we need to shut shop and when it’s okay go go out more.
From recent pressers it sounds like we’re still compiling that data, which makes our earlier approach even more insane. | |
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| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 12:26 - Apr 17 with 502 views | Pinewoodblue |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 12:22 - Apr 17 by Darth_Koont |
Agreed.
I'd just like to hear more about the data being used and what are the parameters they're using. I can take a lack of a detailed plan or timeline. But in their absence it's a perfect time to discuss the overall approach to the data and the options. And indeed open it up for discussion - there's no harm in admitting that the answers aren't simple. |
You are beginning to sound like a 16 yr old Swedish school girl. |  |
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| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 12:30 - Apr 17 with 498 views | gordon |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 11:44 - Apr 17 by Darth_Koont |
The problem now is that the circus of our politics and media is getting in the way.
I know that Raab doesn't know.
I know that Kuenssberg doesn't know.
I want to hear the science and what the issues and options are around that. In other words, I want to hear the adults. [Post edited 17 Apr 2020 11:44]
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Here's an expert view of how we're doing in care homes:
[Post edited 17 Apr 2020 12:31]
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| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 12:34 - Apr 17 with 488 views | monytowbray |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 12:26 - Apr 17 by Pinewoodblue |
You are beginning to sound like a 16 yr old Swedish school girl. |
You mean that one that upsets all the right wing climate denying snowflakes by being right?! | |
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| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 12:39 - Apr 17 with 483 views | Pinewoodblue |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 12:34 - Apr 17 by monytowbray |
You mean that one that upsets all the right wing climate denying snowflakes by being right?! |
Someone who thinks he/she is an expert when in fact they are nothing of the sort.
For the record I am not a climate denier, but it interesting how quickly things seem to be improving climate wise due to the impact of C-19. | |
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| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 12:40 - Apr 17 with 471 views | Darth_Koont |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 12:26 - Apr 17 by Pinewoodblue |
You are beginning to sound like a 16 yr old Swedish school girl. |
Good. | |
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| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 12:42 - Apr 17 with 459 views | monytowbray |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 12:24 - Apr 17 by lowhouseblue |
can i have a link to someone - either government or advisor - saying ' carry on as normal'. the scientists openly discussed the conflict between a successful lock down and creating herd immunity - there is a genuine conflict there - nothing at all to show that it affected the timing of the lockdown. the nhs is coping. |
Were you not about for the weekend of the 13th-15th March? Did you not see the country going ahead with Cheltenham or the Stereophonics play 3 nights to a 10,000 capacity crowd? Or the 3,000 Madrid fans who visited Liverpool? | |
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| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 12:44 - Apr 17 with 455 views | sparks |
| The Government have no idea when the lockdown will finish.... on 11:13 - Apr 17 by giant_stow |
good point.
It's funny how people are actually acting with faith here. Faith that our scientists (the ones advising the govt at least) are right and everyone else is wrong. |
Noone rational relies on faith.
Noone rational and knowledgeable is unaware that scientific opinion varies and develops.
Criticism of the governments approach - seems absed on either innuendo that it ignored the science, or that it followed the wrong sicence (despite that being hte advice from its senior advisers). We have insufficient information to know if any of the criticisms are valid- so I will routinely point out where people are making flawed assertions without proper basis or evidence. Nothing more nothing less. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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