| This pressure to end the lockdown 08:50 - Apr 27 with 10191 views | Steve_M |
Is it coming from anywhere other than the same right-wing columnists and media pundits who didn't want it in the first place? Opinion polls at the end of last week remained broadly supportive and suggests much of the public isn't expecting an imminent change.
Yes, it is undoubtedly doing economic damage to the country but then tens of thousands of deaths do that too. It's too early and the UK lacks the testing and contact tracing facilities, as yet, to ease it significantly.
I'm not convinced by long-lens pictures which compress people into seemingly larger groups on tabloid front pages. |  |
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| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:23 - Apr 27 with 791 views | ElephantintheRoom |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:09 - Apr 27 by gordon |
There's lots of evidence that the lockdown is doing what it's supposed to do, albeit it was enforced 10 days too late.
The question now is when will we have the capacity to start tracking and isolating cases effectively. Joggers and cyclists aren't going to have a material affect on this. |
There is no evidence at all that the 'lockdown' is working. The other day Professor Pinocchio waffled around a graph which clearly showed 'the curve' in Sweden being flatter in Sweden.
IF the government had prepared for a pandemic and properly isolated care homes and vulnerable people in the community with the same enthusiasm that they created fake hospitals in exhibiton centres ... and maybe forced people off the streets unless making one visit a week to buy food and get medicine... but ho hum France tried that - and their results arent as 'good' as Sweden's either.
It's a very strange 'lockdown' where you can still fly off on a day trip to tehran and stop off on the way home in sainsbury's touching as much food as you feel like |  |
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| This pressure to end the lockdown (Edited after posting half-way through typing) on 11:26 - Apr 27 with 777 views | Guthrum |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:09 - Apr 27 by blueconscience |
Perhaps they should also show the percentage of positive test results alongside the count, it will keep the numbers in perspective. [Post edited 27 Apr 2020 11:11]
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For most of the last 12 days, it has been between 29.27% and 41.21%, tho the last two days have thrown up unusually low figures (6.67% and 17.45%).
In the week before that, it was varying quite widely, with outlier figures of 28.12%, 65.84% and 83.66%.
Those figures are percentages of the number of people who were tested and the results came back positive, which are higher than the equvalent for the total number of tests (but I don't have a column for that on my sheet, as they only started telling us that last figure on 6th April and it messes up comparison with earlier dates). [Post edited 27 Apr 2020 11:35]
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| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:26 - Apr 27 with 778 views | sparks |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:23 - Apr 27 by ElephantintheRoom |
There is no evidence at all that the 'lockdown' is working. The other day Professor Pinocchio waffled around a graph which clearly showed 'the curve' in Sweden being flatter in Sweden.
IF the government had prepared for a pandemic and properly isolated care homes and vulnerable people in the community with the same enthusiasm that they created fake hospitals in exhibiton centres ... and maybe forced people off the streets unless making one visit a week to buy food and get medicine... but ho hum France tried that - and their results arent as 'good' as Sweden's either.
It's a very strange 'lockdown' where you can still fly off on a day trip to tehran and stop off on the way home in sainsbury's touching as much food as you feel like |
Why is this budgie troll continuing to be allowed to post disinformation and ill conceived innuendo on here? |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
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| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:28 - Apr 27 with 762 views | gordon |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:23 - Apr 27 by sparks |
I just had a go at an old boy in the coop.
Its a small shop- 4 people are allowed in at a time. There are 4 narrow aisles. With some care and consideration, it is easy to wait for people to clear the place you want to be before moving on, or tto take the long way round to the other end of the aisle.
I stood waiting for an elderly gentleman to select stuff at the top of the aisle. He took ages- but I waited patiently. He ambled off, and another one appeared from that end of the aisle. I continued to wait- patiently and politely. He got what he was after and then started walking right towards me, clearly intending to go past me.
I stepped awy around the end of the aisle, with raised eyebrows. He, quite amiably (seemingly with no clue as to what the issue was), said "Ho ho- you look like you were staring into space. Miles away!"
I replied, tersely, "No- I was just surprised that you were walking right towards me. You are supposed to stay 2 metres away mate. Too many people are acting like they dont care."
I think that was measured and reasonable- though the whole shop certainly heard me.... Still annoyed now. Every time I go there, there is at least one idiot. [Post edited 27 Apr 2020 11:26]
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'Every time I go there, there is at least one idiot.'
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| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:33 - Apr 27 with 753 views | linhdi |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 09:13 - Apr 27 by sparks |
Its not particularly nuanced at all at this stage. Starmer is wrong to keep raising it- because it is plainly encouraging people to think that its on the way, and have started to act accordingly.
Meanwhile our figures for new cases are hovering at around 5k a day, despite 4/5 weeks of restrictions. These should surely be reducing but are not. If we are keeping a lid on at 5k a day with the restrictions, what on earth do people think will happen if they are relaxed?
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/ [Post edited 27 Apr 2020 9:16]
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The new cases are largely from people who are not subject to isolation- health workers in all sectors, plus other key workers. We locked down late and less fully than other countries ( check out graphs of traffic stats in London v Rome, Madrid, Oaris). So we are bound to have a relatively high residual infection rate for a while yet.
The good news is that hospitalizations are reducing, albeit slowly, and Spain /Italy have started to a steeper decline in cases. We seem to be 2-4 weeks behind them in slowdown, though UK stats are hard to interpret as we have no feel for the infection rate and our reporting is far more volatile than most other countries for some reason.
This week's stats will be telling. We need to see a real fall in mortality and hospitalization on a 7-day rolling basis. I think that will happen, but there's a way to go yet... | | | |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:35 - Apr 27 with 746 views | gordon |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:23 - Apr 27 by ElephantintheRoom |
There is no evidence at all that the 'lockdown' is working. The other day Professor Pinocchio waffled around a graph which clearly showed 'the curve' in Sweden being flatter in Sweden.
IF the government had prepared for a pandemic and properly isolated care homes and vulnerable people in the community with the same enthusiasm that they created fake hospitals in exhibiton centres ... and maybe forced people off the streets unless making one visit a week to buy food and get medicine... but ho hum France tried that - and their results arent as 'good' as Sweden's either.
It's a very strange 'lockdown' where you can still fly off on a day trip to tehran and stop off on the way home in sainsbury's touching as much food as you feel like |
i'm not saying it's been well-handled, it manifestly hasn't. Our response has been appalling and resulted in thousands of unnecessary deaths, but it is pretty clear that the rate of reinfection has been significantly reduced by the lockdown. | | | |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:38 - Apr 27 with 738 views | Steve_M |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:23 - Apr 27 by ElephantintheRoom |
There is no evidence at all that the 'lockdown' is working. The other day Professor Pinocchio waffled around a graph which clearly showed 'the curve' in Sweden being flatter in Sweden.
IF the government had prepared for a pandemic and properly isolated care homes and vulnerable people in the community with the same enthusiasm that they created fake hospitals in exhibiton centres ... and maybe forced people off the streets unless making one visit a week to buy food and get medicine... but ho hum France tried that - and their results arent as 'good' as Sweden's either.
It's a very strange 'lockdown' where you can still fly off on a day trip to tehran and stop off on the way home in sainsbury's touching as much food as you feel like |
Have you compared Sweden to, say, Norway, which did lock down? The comparison is rather stark. | |
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| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:41 - Apr 27 with 717 views | Tangledupin_Blue |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:33 - Apr 27 by linhdi |
The new cases are largely from people who are not subject to isolation- health workers in all sectors, plus other key workers. We locked down late and less fully than other countries ( check out graphs of traffic stats in London v Rome, Madrid, Oaris). So we are bound to have a relatively high residual infection rate for a while yet.
The good news is that hospitalizations are reducing, albeit slowly, and Spain /Italy have started to a steeper decline in cases. We seem to be 2-4 weeks behind them in slowdown, though UK stats are hard to interpret as we have no feel for the infection rate and our reporting is far more volatile than most other countries for some reason.
This week's stats will be telling. We need to see a real fall in mortality and hospitalization on a 7-day rolling basis. I think that will happen, but there's a way to go yet... |
...and we need to see that fall sustained over a meaningful period of time. Then we can think about relaxing the curfew. |  |
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| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:43 - Apr 27 with 700 views | blueconscience |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:41 - Apr 27 by Tangledupin_Blue |
...and we need to see that fall sustained over a meaningful period of time. Then we can think about relaxing the curfew. |
Define “Meaningful Period of Time” |  |
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| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:44 - Apr 27 with 706 views | yesjohn99 |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 09:28 - Apr 27 by NotSure |
You talk of ten of thousands of deaths.
I know this is unpleasant to say but the vast majority of these people who died were economically inactive. Every death is a tragedy but this disease is currently not killing many young people.
My household doesn't care about this lockdown anymore and just like my neighbours on either side we are going out when we want and accepting visitors. |
This is the closet I’ve come to wishing this disease on someone | | | |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:45 - Apr 27 with 696 views | NotSure |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 10:53 - Apr 27 by StokieBlue |
This is simply not true.
You are also ignoring the fact it survives on surfaces for many hours. That would include door handles, benches etc.
You've also not said why you are happy to have people around your house when you think it is easier to catch indoors.
Your attitude to this is awful, you post things which you concede aren't true and then tell people to go out and enjoy the sunshine despite the lockdown.
You should be ashamed.
SB |
No, not ashamed at all.
And the couple of research links posted from Guthrum about aerosols are mainly to do with inside and in any case are theoretical. Apparently we still don't know for sure if this virus is airborne.
And maybe the virus does linger on objects, so wash your hands regularly.
So to say it is "simply not true" is wrong.
And people came come round and sat in the garden, perfectly safe.
But people don't come round very often so no big deal.
What makes you the expert here. Why won't you question the advice given, why won't you think for yourself?
Summer is coming, enjoy whilst respecting other peoples space, it may be your last if this virus mutates into something bad. |  | | |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:45 - Apr 27 with 683 views | gordon |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:33 - Apr 27 by linhdi |
The new cases are largely from people who are not subject to isolation- health workers in all sectors, plus other key workers. We locked down late and less fully than other countries ( check out graphs of traffic stats in London v Rome, Madrid, Oaris). So we are bound to have a relatively high residual infection rate for a while yet.
The good news is that hospitalizations are reducing, albeit slowly, and Spain /Italy have started to a steeper decline in cases. We seem to be 2-4 weeks behind them in slowdown, though UK stats are hard to interpret as we have no feel for the infection rate and our reporting is far more volatile than most other countries for some reason.
This week's stats will be telling. We need to see a real fall in mortality and hospitalization on a 7-day rolling basis. I think that will happen, but there's a way to go yet... |
Yes, agreed, the decline in infections is going to be pretty slow, and it's really difficult to understand why we delayed the lockdown. The explanations given at the time just didn't make any sense because any delay increases the overall length of lockdown so much. | | | |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:46 - Apr 27 with 696 views | factual_blue |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:05 - Apr 27 by ElephantintheRoom |
No it is coming from pepole who have had their lives and businesses destroyed.
It is coming from people who live in areas where there are no cases.... most of the country outside major conurbations.
It is coming from people who are somewhat envious that NHS herores can come from a virus-rich working environment into supermarkets... but people cant enjoy that same privelage of being able to work in a work environment where where are no viruses.
It is coming from people who have said all along that a partial lockdown in an island is utterly insane.
It is coming from people fed up with seeing people out jogging and cycling puffing their viruses (if they had them) over other people and into the air they breathe.
Basically its coming from almost everyone who doesnt read the guardian or have a cushy job they can pretend to do from home. |
It's almost as though that elephant in your room has deposited an enormous pile of dung, and you've then posted it on here.
Well done. |  |
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| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:51 - Apr 27 with 671 views | Tangledupin_Blue |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:43 - Apr 27 by blueconscience |
Define “Meaningful Period of Time” |
I would think a substantial and sustained fall in new cases for an absolute minimum of three weeks. Having said that I would, of course, defer to scientists and other experts. If the 'expert' opinion is divided then take the more cautious approach.
Edit: Inserted the words 'and sustained'. [Post edited 27 Apr 2020 11:54]
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| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:54 - Apr 27 with 669 views | sparks |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:45 - Apr 27 by NotSure |
No, not ashamed at all.
And the couple of research links posted from Guthrum about aerosols are mainly to do with inside and in any case are theoretical. Apparently we still don't know for sure if this virus is airborne.
And maybe the virus does linger on objects, so wash your hands regularly.
So to say it is "simply not true" is wrong.
And people came come round and sat in the garden, perfectly safe.
But people don't come round very often so no big deal.
What makes you the expert here. Why won't you question the advice given, why won't you think for yourself?
Summer is coming, enjoy whilst respecting other peoples space, it may be your last if this virus mutates into something bad. |
Just obey the instructions FFS.
My next door neighbour works in a covid ward. You spread it to another dozen people, whospread it to a dozen each- and his ward gets another dozen patients. His prospects of catching it increase. Along with all theother staff and his wife who has pre existing conditions...
Selfish C-Unit. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:57 - Apr 27 with 652 views | footers |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:45 - Apr 27 by NotSure |
No, not ashamed at all.
And the couple of research links posted from Guthrum about aerosols are mainly to do with inside and in any case are theoretical. Apparently we still don't know for sure if this virus is airborne.
And maybe the virus does linger on objects, so wash your hands regularly.
So to say it is "simply not true" is wrong.
And people came come round and sat in the garden, perfectly safe.
But people don't come round very often so no big deal.
What makes you the expert here. Why won't you question the advice given, why won't you think for yourself?
Summer is coming, enjoy whilst respecting other peoples space, it may be your last if this virus mutates into something bad. |
So, basically on one hand you've got an overwhelming majority of the world's scientists who say practise social distancing and remain isolated, and on the other you've got some tool with a hunch on a football messageboard.
That's me convinced. |  |
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| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:58 - Apr 27 with 651 views | Guthrum |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:45 - Apr 27 by NotSure |
No, not ashamed at all.
And the couple of research links posted from Guthrum about aerosols are mainly to do with inside and in any case are theoretical. Apparently we still don't know for sure if this virus is airborne.
And maybe the virus does linger on objects, so wash your hands regularly.
So to say it is "simply not true" is wrong.
And people came come round and sat in the garden, perfectly safe.
But people don't come round very often so no big deal.
What makes you the expert here. Why won't you question the advice given, why won't you think for yourself?
Summer is coming, enjoy whilst respecting other peoples space, it may be your last if this virus mutates into something bad. |
There is an increasing body of research suggesting the virus is aerosol-borne (which is not the same as airborne). You can't just dismiss that because it is not yet unquestionably proven.
Studies have even found traces of it on particles of air pollution: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/apr/24/coronavirus-detected-particl
I have also heard reports that it has been found within air conditioning systems.
In any case, surely with a highly infectious and often fatal disease, it is always better to err on the side of caution? Especially when balanced against mere social pleasure. | |
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| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:59 - Apr 27 with 654 views | ElephantintheRoom |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:38 - Apr 27 by Steve_M |
Have you compared Sweden to, say, Norway, which did lock down? The comparison is rather stark. |
I'm not saying Sweden got it right or wrong.... just that they took a measured approach based on science...we took a panic approach based on science. As the quacks in sweden will tell you there is no way of knowing if any country's response has been effective for at least a year.
Sweden are confident that their approach reduces the risk of a 'second spike' that those in lockdown will get - time will tell.
The realy interesting examples are in islands where they actually DID lockdown. NZ is getting all the publicity, but Sri Lanka took the novel approach of enforcing their lockdown with martial law... las time I looked there death toll from covid was 8.
Stark facts like that suggest that if we had tried a lockdown in this country tens of thousands of lives could have been saved... and we wouldnt have tanked the economy...except conspiracy theorists will tell you that the government was quite keen to cripple the economy to eliminate the Brexit effect.
The thing is its one thing to 'be led by the science' but different scientists have different pet theories on this virus.... and they could all be right... or wrong. Clearly ours were - and probably still are very wrong | |
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| This pressure to end the lockdown on 12:04 - Apr 27 with 638 views | Tangledupin_Blue |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:54 - Apr 27 by sparks |
Just obey the instructions FFS.
My next door neighbour works in a covid ward. You spread it to another dozen people, whospread it to a dozen each- and his ward gets another dozen patients. His prospects of catching it increase. Along with all theother staff and his wife who has pre existing conditions...
Selfish C-Unit. |
My niece, similarly, is nursing covid patients in a major hospital. My sister works in a local co-op; my other sister is in security, having to deal directly with many people each day. I am continuing my job as a lorry driver.
I don't think any poster on this forum has made as angry as this a-h who seems content to casually increase the risk to all of us. | |
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| This pressure to end the lockdown on 12:09 - Apr 27 with 615 views | WeWereZombies |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 09:57 - Apr 27 by NotSure |
Well it's what they did in China and look at their death rates from Covid 19.
It's about being sensible with this. It is very hard to catch this virus outdoors.
Look at the supermarkets, everyone queues 2m apart outside and then gets close to each other inside. Utterly pointless, you are safer outside! |
I almost gave that an uppie. [edit} I read your post incorrectly so the following sentence does not apply but the words in the final set of brackets are worth some consideration nevertheless. Except you said that it is very hard to catch this virus indoors - even if there was a way that you could suspect that surely the most basic reasoning (and I am suggesting that would be reasoning typical of a child under ten years old) would inform you that an enclosed space with no wind to blow coughs and sneezes away from you (on balance more likely than on to you) is a better vector for the virus to travel between people.
I can tell that you are 'avin' a larff - but you are not doing it in a nice, or even a constructive, way. [Post edited 27 Apr 2020 13:28]
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| This pressure to end the lockdown on 12:17 - Apr 27 with 589 views | gordon |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:59 - Apr 27 by ElephantintheRoom |
I'm not saying Sweden got it right or wrong.... just that they took a measured approach based on science...we took a panic approach based on science. As the quacks in sweden will tell you there is no way of knowing if any country's response has been effective for at least a year.
Sweden are confident that their approach reduces the risk of a 'second spike' that those in lockdown will get - time will tell.
The realy interesting examples are in islands where they actually DID lockdown. NZ is getting all the publicity, but Sri Lanka took the novel approach of enforcing their lockdown with martial law... las time I looked there death toll from covid was 8.
Stark facts like that suggest that if we had tried a lockdown in this country tens of thousands of lives could have been saved... and we wouldnt have tanked the economy...except conspiracy theorists will tell you that the government was quite keen to cripple the economy to eliminate the Brexit effect.
The thing is its one thing to 'be led by the science' but different scientists have different pet theories on this virus.... and they could all be right... or wrong. Clearly ours were - and probably still are very wrong |
I'm not convinced that we're still wrong - I think the penny has dropped now that we just have to do what everyone else does.
We still do spend too much time talking about antibody tests and vaccines - so-called 'game-changers' (it's similar in America, although there they talk about nonsensical cures as well) and not enough time talking about how we're going to sensibly and sustainably manage this disease over the next few years, and how we're going to build public support for those measures. | | | |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 12:19 - Apr 27 with 588 views | ElephantintheRoom |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 12:04 - Apr 27 by Tangledupin_Blue |
My niece, similarly, is nursing covid patients in a major hospital. My sister works in a local co-op; my other sister is in security, having to deal directly with many people each day. I am continuing my job as a lorry driver.
I don't think any poster on this forum has made as angry as this a-h who seems content to casually increase the risk to all of us. |
There IS a certain logic to what he was saying.... people who probably dont have the virus cant give it to each other IF they obey social distancing and wash their hands etc.
The people who CAN give you covid work in hospitals, care homes etc - and IF they carry that virus with them home or to the supermarket... then everyone at the supermarket is in a lottery to see if they catch it....which is what we call a lockdown.
Another good way of catching it was clearly to go to a football match .... the spike of infections in Liverpool after the Atletico tie will no doubt be used to discourage sports gatherings for quite some time.... but maybe the police will be blamed for that one.
After such a long partial, casual part-time lockdown it seems fairly obvious that people are now immune to 'the flattened curve' and can go back to work in dribs and drabs - and quite right too... you are no more likely to catch the virus at work than you are at the supermarket or on public transport. | |
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| This pressure to end the lockdown on 12:37 - Apr 27 with 552 views | Tangledupin_Blue |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 12:19 - Apr 27 by ElephantintheRoom |
There IS a certain logic to what he was saying.... people who probably dont have the virus cant give it to each other IF they obey social distancing and wash their hands etc.
The people who CAN give you covid work in hospitals, care homes etc - and IF they carry that virus with them home or to the supermarket... then everyone at the supermarket is in a lottery to see if they catch it....which is what we call a lockdown.
Another good way of catching it was clearly to go to a football match .... the spike of infections in Liverpool after the Atletico tie will no doubt be used to discourage sports gatherings for quite some time.... but maybe the police will be blamed for that one.
After such a long partial, casual part-time lockdown it seems fairly obvious that people are now immune to 'the flattened curve' and can go back to work in dribs and drabs - and quite right too... you are no more likely to catch the virus at work than you are at the supermarket or on public transport. |
With respect you are wrong.
Covid is not limited to those you mention. There are plenty of people who are not front line workers but who have covid and can pass it to others. The more we mix, the more we will spread the virus. Even 'safe distancing' will not entirely prevent the virus from being passed on
Of the millions of people who 'probably don't' have the virus, some will have it. So even the people who probably don't have it aren't safe! | |
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| This pressure to end the lockdown on 12:44 - Apr 27 with 528 views | StokieBlue |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:45 - Apr 27 by NotSure |
No, not ashamed at all.
And the couple of research links posted from Guthrum about aerosols are mainly to do with inside and in any case are theoretical. Apparently we still don't know for sure if this virus is airborne.
And maybe the virus does linger on objects, so wash your hands regularly.
So to say it is "simply not true" is wrong.
And people came come round and sat in the garden, perfectly safe.
But people don't come round very often so no big deal.
What makes you the expert here. Why won't you question the advice given, why won't you think for yourself?
Summer is coming, enjoy whilst respecting other peoples space, it may be your last if this virus mutates into something bad. |
Why do you question the research of qualified scientists? I think it's probably dangerous if you think for yourself so best stop it now. It's certainly dangerous for you to post the absolute rubbish you are at the moment.
It is not "perfectly safe" for people to come round and sit in the garden. They could have touched all manner of things, they could have coughed.
If the virus mutates into something bad it will because of people like you who have given it vectors to persist, multiply and mutate.
Frankly your attitude is unbelievable and selfish. You're the problem not everyone else.
SB |  |
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