| This pressure to end the lockdown 08:50 - Apr 27 with 10595 views | Steve_M |
Is it coming from anywhere other than the same right-wing columnists and media pundits who didn't want it in the first place? Opinion polls at the end of last week remained broadly supportive and suggests much of the public isn't expecting an imminent change.
Yes, it is undoubtedly doing economic damage to the country but then tens of thousands of deaths do that too. It's too early and the UK lacks the testing and contact tracing facilities, as yet, to ease it significantly.
I'm not convinced by long-lens pictures which compress people into seemingly larger groups on tabloid front pages. |  |
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| This pressure to end the lockdown on 10:46 - Apr 27 with 1034 views | mrfixit426 |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 09:28 - Apr 27 by NotSure |
You talk of ten of thousands of deaths.
I know this is unpleasant to say but the vast majority of these people who died were economically inactive. Every death is a tragedy but this disease is currently not killing many young people.
My household doesn't care about this lockdown anymore and just like my neighbours on either side we are going out when we want and accepting visitors. |
Wow. People really have revealed their true nature during this crisis. What a selfish, spoilt society we have created and live in. Hopefully the next generation can learn from this. |  | | |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 10:47 - Apr 27 with 1027 views | longtimefan |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 10:25 - Apr 27 by gordon |
The best way to track the progress of the disease is probably patients currently in ICU (I don't know what the figures for that are), rather than reported infections or deaths.
The prevalence of the disease is far greater than reported infections, so the number of positive tests is highly sensitive to the total number of tests carried out.
EDIT - Or, the best way to use the daily test data would be to look at the % of positive tests out of all the tests carried out.
Just quickly, yesterday we reported 4,463 positive tests out of 25,577 tests (17%). Going from the Dept Health & Social Care data, out of all the tests we've carried out so far, 28% have been positive, suggesting that prevalence of the infection in the population has significantly dropped. I'd guess that in early April we were getting our 5,000 positives out of 10 - 12,000 tests. [Post edited 27 Apr 2020 10:34]
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I'd suggest the hospital beds occupied by Covid-19 infected people would be one of the best indicators as presented in the daily briefing. Available in presentation and dataset form:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/slides-and-datasets-to-accompany-coro |  | | |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 10:49 - Apr 27 with 1029 views | Radlett_blue |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 10:12 - Apr 27 by Pendejo |
Personally happy with the concept of maintaining it until end of May, thereafter it all depends of Government / employer continuing to pay the furlough salary. As long as I can pay my bills I'll follow the Government instructions.
I disagree that death, even if tend of thousands harm the economy. Inactivity definitely harms the economy. Death, though, means spending money; funerals are expensive things but mean business for funeral directors, florists, caterers, probably the off clothes shop as folks get themselves a new outfit or item of clothing. Then there's possible inheritance and associated spending.
In terms of inactivity, just using my own experience, I had in the region of £1,300 more in my account when I was paid on Friday than I would normally expect to see. Whilst theoretically this may be used by the bank for investment purposes it doesn't spread the happiness that spending it would. Lockdown means I have been able to curb spending on frivolous things....
Oh and was due to fly to Colombia tonight so wife could attend her father's grave, he died 23rd Jan and this was the earliest date we could go together. |
Your point that the government (effectively, the taxpayer) cannot keep paying people not to work is highly relevant, especially as tax revenue is going to nosedive, along with the economy. A vaccine may never be found - they're still trying to find one for SARS after 12 years. Testing can only help reduce the spread, unless you can test everyone who is going to go outdoors almost every day. The only realistic policy is to control the spread of the virus to manageable proportions & that has so far been achieved. The next step is some gradual easing of restrictions, so that more economic activity can take place. |  |
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| This pressure to end the lockdown on 10:51 - Apr 27 with 1025 views | Lord_Lucan |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 10:36 - Apr 27 by Guthrum |
Agree, altho supermarkets have been identified as a weak point. There are too many people going to them too often, getting too close together and handling the same things, mostly without masks or gloves. This is far more of a problem than a few people sitting in parks.
So they close them down to the public and rely on mobilising a massive delivery network (involving the army and Deliveroo/Just Eat personnel), or reduce it to rationing-style food parcel deliveries. Or hand out chits so each household is allowed only one shopping trip per week. |
Supermarkets are indeed a problem but this could be made so much better if a member of staff explained the protocol to everyone who entered.
At Aldi the other day most people were keeping to the lines and the chevrons but some daft idiots were ignoring these, overtaking and shopping at will as they wanted.
I was guilty of this to an extent the week before as although I was keeping a distance I wasn't adhering to the one way system. It was a new system and once I was reprimanded I changed my way. Some people don't care and some people don't know.
In HK the social distancing is 1.5m but this does not apply to shopping, however they all wear surgical masks. If we had the masks in a qty where we could make it a prerequisite - but we haven't. Vicious circle. |  |
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| This pressure to end the lockdown on 10:53 - Apr 27 with 1020 views | StokieBlue |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 10:24 - Apr 27 by NotSure |
It is "very hard" to catch a respiratory disease outdoors.
Someone has to basically cough / sneeze into your face.
You certainly won't catch it by walking past someone 1.5 metres away on the pavement.
It is very funny how people walk in the road, cross the road or back themselves into a hedge when you walk past them. |
This is simply not true.
You are also ignoring the fact it survives on surfaces for many hours. That would include door handles, benches etc.
You've also not said why you are happy to have people around your house when you think it is easier to catch indoors.
Your attitude to this is awful, you post things which you concede aren't true and then tell people to go out and enjoy the sunshine despite the lockdown.
You should be ashamed.
SB |  | | |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 10:55 - Apr 27 with 1007 views | Garv |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 09:57 - Apr 27 by NotSure |
Well it's what they did in China and look at their death rates from Covid 19.
It's about being sensible with this. It is very hard to catch this virus outdoors.
Look at the supermarkets, everyone queues 2m apart outside and then gets close to each other inside. Utterly pointless, you are safer outside! |
'It's about being sensible with this.'
Such irony. You're a prat. |  |
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| This pressure to end the lockdown on 10:57 - Apr 27 with 1001 views | ElderGrizzly |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 09:13 - Apr 27 by sparks |
Its not particularly nuanced at all at this stage. Starmer is wrong to keep raising it- because it is plainly encouraging people to think that its on the way, and have started to act accordingly.
Meanwhile our figures for new cases are hovering at around 5k a day, despite 4/5 weeks of restrictions. These should surely be reducing but are not. If we are keeping a lid on at 5k a day with the restrictions, what on earth do people think will happen if they are relaxed?
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/ [Post edited 27 Apr 2020 9:16]
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If we are testing 10x as many people, the actual number of cases will rise? It has to be the % surely? |  | | |
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| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:02 - Apr 27 with 985 views | gordon |
Yup, agreed, that's probably best figure. There'll still be a bias (introducing a lag on the downcurve) because patients will be more likely to be admitted to hospital now there is more space. |  | | |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:02 - Apr 27 with 987 views | itfcjoe |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 10:51 - Apr 27 by Lord_Lucan |
Supermarkets are indeed a problem but this could be made so much better if a member of staff explained the protocol to everyone who entered.
At Aldi the other day most people were keeping to the lines and the chevrons but some daft idiots were ignoring these, overtaking and shopping at will as they wanted.
I was guilty of this to an extent the week before as although I was keeping a distance I wasn't adhering to the one way system. It was a new system and once I was reprimanded I changed my way. Some people don't care and some people don't know.
In HK the social distancing is 1.5m but this does not apply to shopping, however they all wear surgical masks. If we had the masks in a qty where we could make it a prerequisite - but we haven't. Vicious circle. |
Some people make it impossible, I was stuck at the start of ALdi for a good 5 minutes whilst one bloke inspected every piece of veg, I went round him into the next box and he then came within inches of me to pick something up. People standing there on their phone or looking at shopping lists - just need to give people as much space as you can whilst getting round, and people need to do it sensibly.
Most do in fariness, if I ever go it is only one or two people that have annoyed me - the minority |  |
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| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:04 - Apr 27 with 974 views | gordon |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 10:57 - Apr 27 by ElderGrizzly |
If we are testing 10x as many people, the actual number of cases will rise? It has to be the % surely? |
Yes, there's lots of evidence to suggest prevalence of the disease is decreasing and the lockdown is working fine. | | | |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:05 - Apr 27 with 998 views | ElephantintheRoom |
No it is coming from pepole who have had their lives and businesses destroyed.
It is coming from people who live in areas where there are no cases.... most of the country outside major conurbations.
It is coming from people who are somewhat envious that NHS herores can come from a virus-rich working environment into supermarkets... but people cant enjoy that same privelage of being able to work in a work environment where where are no viruses.
It is coming from people who have said all along that a partial lockdown in an island is utterly insane.
It is coming from people fed up with seeing people out jogging and cycling puffing their viruses (if they had them) over other people and into the air they breathe.
Basically its coming from almost everyone who doesnt read the guardian or have a cushy job they can pretend to do from home. | |
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| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:05 - Apr 27 with 972 views | Guthrum |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 10:51 - Apr 27 by Lord_Lucan |
Supermarkets are indeed a problem but this could be made so much better if a member of staff explained the protocol to everyone who entered.
At Aldi the other day most people were keeping to the lines and the chevrons but some daft idiots were ignoring these, overtaking and shopping at will as they wanted.
I was guilty of this to an extent the week before as although I was keeping a distance I wasn't adhering to the one way system. It was a new system and once I was reprimanded I changed my way. Some people don't care and some people don't know.
In HK the social distancing is 1.5m but this does not apply to shopping, however they all wear surgical masks. If we had the masks in a qty where we could make it a prerequisite - but we haven't. Vicious circle. |
Was in Tesco a couple of days ago (shopping for someone else who can't get out at the best of times) and despite staff giving instructions, people were blithering around in all directions, stopping in the middle of aisles to footle on their phones, shopping as couples/families/housemates, etc.
I wear a (dust, not medical) mask and usually gloves when in supermarkets. |  |
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| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:07 - Apr 27 with 966 views | Tangledupin_Blue |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 09:28 - Apr 27 by NotSure |
You talk of ten of thousands of deaths.
I know this is unpleasant to say but the vast majority of these people who died were economically inactive. Every death is a tragedy but this disease is currently not killing many young people.
My household doesn't care about this lockdown anymore and just like my neighbours on either side we are going out when we want and accepting visitors. |
Then you are an irresponsible c**t and you should be locked up. |  |
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| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:08 - Apr 27 with 972 views | WestStanderLaLaLa |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:05 - Apr 27 by ElephantintheRoom |
No it is coming from pepole who have had their lives and businesses destroyed.
It is coming from people who live in areas where there are no cases.... most of the country outside major conurbations.
It is coming from people who are somewhat envious that NHS herores can come from a virus-rich working environment into supermarkets... but people cant enjoy that same privelage of being able to work in a work environment where where are no viruses.
It is coming from people who have said all along that a partial lockdown in an island is utterly insane.
It is coming from people fed up with seeing people out jogging and cycling puffing their viruses (if they had them) over other people and into the air they breathe.
Basically its coming from almost everyone who doesnt read the guardian or have a cushy job they can pretend to do from home. |
It is coming from people trying to be edgy on the internet |  |
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| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:09 - Apr 27 with 966 views | gordon |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:05 - Apr 27 by ElephantintheRoom |
No it is coming from pepole who have had their lives and businesses destroyed.
It is coming from people who live in areas where there are no cases.... most of the country outside major conurbations.
It is coming from people who are somewhat envious that NHS herores can come from a virus-rich working environment into supermarkets... but people cant enjoy that same privelage of being able to work in a work environment where where are no viruses.
It is coming from people who have said all along that a partial lockdown in an island is utterly insane.
It is coming from people fed up with seeing people out jogging and cycling puffing their viruses (if they had them) over other people and into the air they breathe.
Basically its coming from almost everyone who doesnt read the guardian or have a cushy job they can pretend to do from home. |
There's lots of evidence that the lockdown is doing what it's supposed to do, albeit it was enforced 10 days too late.
The question now is when will we have the capacity to start tracking and isolating cases effectively. Joggers and cyclists aren't going to have a material affect on this. | | | |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:09 - Apr 27 with 961 views | blueconscience |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 09:37 - Apr 27 by gordon |
We're just picking up way more of the non-serious infections now because testing is increasing. |
Perhaps they should also show the percentage of positive test results alongside the count, it will keep the numbers in perspective. [Post edited 27 Apr 2020 11:11]
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| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:09 - Apr 27 with 967 views | Guthrum |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:05 - Apr 27 by ElephantintheRoom |
No it is coming from pepole who have had their lives and businesses destroyed.
It is coming from people who live in areas where there are no cases.... most of the country outside major conurbations.
It is coming from people who are somewhat envious that NHS herores can come from a virus-rich working environment into supermarkets... but people cant enjoy that same privelage of being able to work in a work environment where where are no viruses.
It is coming from people who have said all along that a partial lockdown in an island is utterly insane.
It is coming from people fed up with seeing people out jogging and cycling puffing their viruses (if they had them) over other people and into the air they breathe.
Basically its coming from almost everyone who doesnt read the guardian or have a cushy job they can pretend to do from home. |
In what areas of the country are there no cases? | |
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| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:11 - Apr 27 with 957 views | Sarge |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 10:51 - Apr 27 by Lord_Lucan |
Supermarkets are indeed a problem but this could be made so much better if a member of staff explained the protocol to everyone who entered.
At Aldi the other day most people were keeping to the lines and the chevrons but some daft idiots were ignoring these, overtaking and shopping at will as they wanted.
I was guilty of this to an extent the week before as although I was keeping a distance I wasn't adhering to the one way system. It was a new system and once I was reprimanded I changed my way. Some people don't care and some people don't know.
In HK the social distancing is 1.5m but this does not apply to shopping, however they all wear surgical masks. If we had the masks in a qty where we could make it a prerequisite - but we haven't. Vicious circle. |
The one way system is b0llocks. I’m sure it’s a nice idea but it doesn’t work in practice. Just forces people down aisles they don’t need to go down in order to get to the others and makes the aisles busier. And then people ignore it anyway. | | | |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:13 - Apr 27 with 948 views | gordon |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:09 - Apr 27 by blueconscience |
Perhaps they should also show the percentage of positive test results alongside the count, it will keep the numbers in perspective. [Post edited 27 Apr 2020 11:11]
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Yeah, it's pretty pathetic that they roll out the same infections graph each time, it's pretty meaningless, it would be easy to do some stats on it to make the data more comparable over time.
The only thing maybe it does do is delay people's expectations about the end of lockdown, and encourage blaming of people thought to be not obeying the rules. | | | |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:18 - Apr 27 with 932 views | blueconscience |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:13 - Apr 27 by gordon |
Yeah, it's pretty pathetic that they roll out the same infections graph each time, it's pretty meaningless, it would be easy to do some stats on it to make the data more comparable over time.
The only thing maybe it does do is delay people's expectations about the end of lockdown, and encourage blaming of people thought to be not obeying the rules. |
It just bugs me when people keep panicking because the positive count is going up, of course it will go up with more tests!!!  | |
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| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:19 - Apr 27 with 929 views | Guthrum |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 10:49 - Apr 27 by Radlett_blue |
Your point that the government (effectively, the taxpayer) cannot keep paying people not to work is highly relevant, especially as tax revenue is going to nosedive, along with the economy. A vaccine may never be found - they're still trying to find one for SARS after 12 years. Testing can only help reduce the spread, unless you can test everyone who is going to go outdoors almost every day. The only realistic policy is to control the spread of the virus to manageable proportions & that has so far been achieved. The next step is some gradual easing of restrictions, so that more economic activity can take place. |
The Government can continue to pay out at a high rate for considerably longer than a month or two. During the two World Wars, expenditure exceeded tax income vastly for years at a stretch.
Moreover - and we get into somewhat more radical territory here - why is it not possible for a government to carry on printing money and paying for stuff pretty much indefinitely? If inflation gets too silly, simply devalue the currency and start again*. Obviously, that does not work in normal circumstances, where international trade has to carry on. But in an emergency, with cross-border commerce at a reduced rate everywhere, it could be expedient.
* I do strongly suspect there will be financial shenanigans of some sort to sidestep the debts from this crisis, whatever happens. | |
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| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:19 - Apr 27 with 927 views | JohnWarksTash |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 09:28 - Apr 27 by NotSure |
You talk of ten of thousands of deaths.
I know this is unpleasant to say but the vast majority of these people who died were economically inactive. Every death is a tragedy but this disease is currently not killing many young people.
My household doesn't care about this lockdown anymore and just like my neighbours on either side we are going out when we want and accepting visitors. |
U are the problem mate. Grow up and look a bit wider than your own family. You are frankly wrong, selfish and the very worst kind of person. If you want to see the very real effect of COVID19 then come and spend some time at the hospital with me. Come and chat about why, because of people like you, I am entering my 6th week of not seeing my kids.
Sir I would genuinely like you to open your eyes. I am trying so hard to be polite btw. |  | | |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:23 - Apr 27 with 895 views | gordon |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:18 - Apr 27 by blueconscience |
It just bugs me when people keep panicking because the positive count is going up, of course it will go up with more tests!!! |
Yup - they'll know that's how the data will be perceived by the public.
The big question is when will our contact tracing infrastructure be ready to go - the Gov will want to deflect away from this question as much as they can, because they should have been working on it since early Feb, but only stated a week or two ago. | | | |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:23 - Apr 27 with 898 views | sparks |
| This pressure to end the lockdown on 11:02 - Apr 27 by itfcjoe |
Some people make it impossible, I was stuck at the start of ALdi for a good 5 minutes whilst one bloke inspected every piece of veg, I went round him into the next box and he then came within inches of me to pick something up. People standing there on their phone or looking at shopping lists - just need to give people as much space as you can whilst getting round, and people need to do it sensibly.
Most do in fariness, if I ever go it is only one or two people that have annoyed me - the minority |
I just had a go at an old boy in the coop.
Its a small shop- 4 people are allowed in at a time. There are 4 narrow aisles. With some care and consideration, it is easy to wait for people to clear the place you want to be before moving on, or tto take the long way round to the other end of the aisle.
I stood waiting for an elderly gentleman to select stuff at the top of the aisle. He took ages- but I waited patiently. He ambled off, and another one appeared from that end of the aisle. I continued to wait- patiently and politely. He got what he was after and then started walking right towards me, clearly intending to go past me.
I stepped awy around the end of the aisle, with raised eyebrows. He, quite amiably (seemingly with no clue as to what the issue was), said "Ho ho- you look like you were staring into space. Miles away!"
I replied, tersely, "No- I was just surprised that you were walking right towards me. You are supposed to stay 2 metres away mate. Too many people are acting like they dont care."
I think that was measured and reasonable- though the whole shop certainly heard me.... Still annoyed now. Every time I go there, there is at least one idiot. [Post edited 27 Apr 2020 11:26]
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| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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