| Press front pages yesterday vs what will actually happen from Monday 07:39 - May 8 with 5216 views | Dubtractor |
That's a bit of a mess isn't it? The more this story unfolds the more it seems that government, in some form, has given the media the nod that big changes were coming on Monday yet in reality this just isn't the case.
Really is a shambles isn't it?
And could end up being a really dangerous shambles now unless government (and the media) manage to change the narrative.
Who knew that The Thick of It really was so accurate?! |  |
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| Press front pages yesterday vs what will actually happen from Monday on 09:05 - May 8 with 343 views | Churchman |
| Press front pages yesterday vs what will actually happen from Monday on 08:38 - May 8 by StokieBlue |
I don't think this is entirely fair, it seems to have been all based around a leak rather than what the government actually said although totally agree they should have and need to be much clearer with their communication.
I posted this up last night but I think it was missed by most as it's far into a thread:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/may/07/no-10-scrambles-to-control-amid-
“It’s really unhelpful to have bits and pieces of information leaked,” a member of the Sage advisory committee told the Guardian. “It’s incredibly damaging. If people are primed to look at things in a certain way, it will shape how they receive the information. So on Sunday they will be looking for the green lights and they won’t notice the red lights. It’s a really powerful way of influencing people.”
It was a leak and Boris has actually been trying to manage expectations that the announcement won't be a green light for everything over the last 24 hours.
Clearer messaging is needed along with the press not acting like a bunch of children.
SB [Post edited 8 May 2020 8:40]
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Governments for several decades have deliberately leaked information to the media at times which I’ve always thought wrong. Add in that a high percentage of what the media write is speculation or plain rubbish and you have a bad mix. The govt have for me shown incompetence at every turn in handling this, but in terms of next phase and what will and won’t be, the media have driven this and any confusion at the moment is down to them. |  | | |
| Press front pages yesterday vs what will actually happen from Monday on 09:08 - May 8 with 333 views | Bluefish |
| Press front pages yesterday vs what will actually happen from Monday on 08:56 - May 8 by pointofblue |
I’ve actually been hugely unimpressed with Starmer on this actually - he was the one who started the lifting debate and, although his requests have receded for now, the genie is out of the bottle. Being in opposition is still an exceptionally responsible role and he failed miserably with this one.
The Government has had enough issues for him to probe, query and push without creating one unnecessarily. [Post edited 8 May 2020 8:57]
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my issue with labour opposition is the general thought that they must always oppose. Someone needs to have the balls to actually come out and declare when they agree if they want to be credible again. An opposition that only ever opposes doesn't give you a chance to judge them, be brave if you back something then call it loud and proud. If you oppose equally call it loud and proud but let's see what you are actually made of |  |
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| Press front pages yesterday vs what will actually happen from Monday on 09:14 - May 8 with 325 views | Mullet |
| Press front pages yesterday vs what will actually happen from Monday on 09:08 - May 8 by Bluefish |
my issue with labour opposition is the general thought that they must always oppose. Someone needs to have the balls to actually come out and declare when they agree if they want to be credible again. An opposition that only ever opposes doesn't give you a chance to judge them, be brave if you back something then call it loud and proud. If you oppose equally call it loud and proud but let's see what you are actually made of |
What can Labour really agree with from this government that would be emphatic message of unity and maturity? Starmer has called for more cross-party collaboration and been ignored hasn’t he?
We’ve seen Labour MPs attacked and vilified by their mates in the press, it’s not really feasible to expect Labour to make that happen is it? |  |
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| Press front pages yesterday vs what will actually happen from Monday on 09:14 - May 8 with 323 views | Herbivore |
The issue is that we have a government trying to run the country in the same way they ran a highly contentious and borderline illegal referendum campaign. They aren't remotely fit for the task, especially during a time of crisis.
The warning signs were there in the election campaign too, the constant lies and dishonesty, the anonymous briefings to journalists from "number 10 sources", the rebranding of the Conservative twitter feed as an independent fact checker. It's all geared towards deceiving the public and using the press to do it so as to convince them that the Tories are great and not remotely a total shambles. Any serious critique gets lost in a sea of deliberate misinformation.
It's no coincidence the stories about lockdown easing came shortly after Johnson got owned by Starmer at PMQs, or that it came at a time of mounting criticism of their approach as we reached the highest death toll in Europe. Whether lockdown will be eased, whether lives will be lost as people start to go out more, is all irrelevant to them. They got a feel good headline and when it goes tits up they can blame 'fake news'. Welcome to the UK in the 21st century, ladies and gents. This is what you voted for. |  |
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| Press front pages yesterday vs what will actually happen from Monday on 09:17 - May 8 with 316 views | emmaroyds |
It's an omnishambles according to Malcolm Tucker. |  | | |
| Press front pages yesterday vs what will actually happen from Monday on 09:23 - May 8 with 302 views | lowhouseblue |
| Press front pages yesterday vs what will actually happen from Monday on 09:14 - May 8 by Herbivore |
The issue is that we have a government trying to run the country in the same way they ran a highly contentious and borderline illegal referendum campaign. They aren't remotely fit for the task, especially during a time of crisis.
The warning signs were there in the election campaign too, the constant lies and dishonesty, the anonymous briefings to journalists from "number 10 sources", the rebranding of the Conservative twitter feed as an independent fact checker. It's all geared towards deceiving the public and using the press to do it so as to convince them that the Tories are great and not remotely a total shambles. Any serious critique gets lost in a sea of deliberate misinformation.
It's no coincidence the stories about lockdown easing came shortly after Johnson got owned by Starmer at PMQs, or that it came at a time of mounting criticism of their approach as we reached the highest death toll in Europe. Whether lockdown will be eased, whether lives will be lost as people start to go out more, is all irrelevant to them. They got a feel good headline and when it goes tits up they can blame 'fake news'. Welcome to the UK in the 21st century, ladies and gents. This is what you voted for. |
i don't believe this government is worse than any other government. no government is perfect. in physical systems like engines the maximum efficiency you get is about 80% - the same is true of social systems like governments. state failure is just as real as market failure - and it occurs irrespective of party.
added to this the true and honest answer to most questions about covid and what to do going forward is that we simply don't know. the science isn't uni-dimensional or settled. we are dealing with completely unavoidable ignorance and controversy. any government has to form best guesses and contingent judgements.
put those things together and i do not believe that this government has done anything significantly different from what any other conceivable government would have done. and that includes the various errors that have been made. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Press front pages yesterday vs what will actually happen from Monday on 09:23 - May 8 with 293 views | gordon |
| Press front pages yesterday vs what will actually happen from Monday on 08:38 - May 8 by StokieBlue |
I don't think this is entirely fair, it seems to have been all based around a leak rather than what the government actually said although totally agree they should have and need to be much clearer with their communication.
I posted this up last night but I think it was missed by most as it's far into a thread:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/may/07/no-10-scrambles-to-control-amid-
“It’s really unhelpful to have bits and pieces of information leaked,” a member of the Sage advisory committee told the Guardian. “It’s incredibly damaging. If people are primed to look at things in a certain way, it will shape how they receive the information. So on Sunday they will be looking for the green lights and they won’t notice the red lights. It’s a really powerful way of influencing people.”
It was a leak and Boris has actually been trying to manage expectations that the announcement won't be a green light for everything over the last 24 hours.
Clearer messaging is needed along with the press not acting like a bunch of children.
SB [Post edited 8 May 2020 8:40]
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Johnson announced in parliament that he'd be lifting some measures from Monday, but didn't say what. Difficult to see how that can be called a 'leak'
Then the press are briefed by govt sources on what measures might be lifted to drum up some anticipation for Boris's big speech on Sunday.
[Post edited 8 May 2020 9:25]
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| Press front pages yesterday vs what will actually happen from Monday on 09:26 - May 8 with 284 views | gordon |
| Press front pages yesterday vs what will actually happen from Monday on 09:23 - May 8 by lowhouseblue |
i don't believe this government is worse than any other government. no government is perfect. in physical systems like engines the maximum efficiency you get is about 80% - the same is true of social systems like governments. state failure is just as real as market failure - and it occurs irrespective of party.
added to this the true and honest answer to most questions about covid and what to do going forward is that we simply don't know. the science isn't uni-dimensional or settled. we are dealing with completely unavoidable ignorance and controversy. any government has to form best guesses and contingent judgements.
put those things together and i do not believe that this government has done anything significantly different from what any other conceivable government would have done. and that includes the various errors that have been made. |
Crikey, yeah, I never thought about it like that. | | | |
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| Press front pages yesterday vs what will actually happen from Monday on 09:26 - May 8 with 286 views | Herbivore |
| Press front pages yesterday vs what will actually happen from Monday on 09:23 - May 8 by lowhouseblue |
i don't believe this government is worse than any other government. no government is perfect. in physical systems like engines the maximum efficiency you get is about 80% - the same is true of social systems like governments. state failure is just as real as market failure - and it occurs irrespective of party.
added to this the true and honest answer to most questions about covid and what to do going forward is that we simply don't know. the science isn't uni-dimensional or settled. we are dealing with completely unavoidable ignorance and controversy. any government has to form best guesses and contingent judgements.
put those things together and i do not believe that this government has done anything significantly different from what any other conceivable government would have done. and that includes the various errors that have been made. |
Keep up the love of Big Brother. Wow. | |
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| Press front pages yesterday vs what will actually happen from Monday on 09:28 - May 8 with 275 views | Herbivore |
| Press front pages yesterday vs what will actually happen from Monday on 09:26 - May 8 by gordon |
Crikey, yeah, I never thought about it like that. |
I always thought the Tory bot thing was just bantz, then I read that post. | |
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| Press front pages yesterday vs what will actually happen from Monday on 09:29 - May 8 with 277 views | StokieBlue |
| Press front pages yesterday vs what will actually happen from Monday on 09:23 - May 8 by gordon |
Johnson announced in parliament that he'd be lifting some measures from Monday, but didn't say what. Difficult to see how that can be called a 'leak'
Then the press are briefed by govt sources on what measures might be lifted to drum up some anticipation for Boris's big speech on Sunday.
[Post edited 8 May 2020 9:25]
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Well the SAGE member doesn't seem to agree on that point.
Boris didn't outline any specific measures - it seems the press have either made them up based on other countries, there was a leak or there was a briefing like you claim.
Do you have evidence that a government source gave specific examples of what might be lifted as per what is in the press? If you do then it's a fair point, if not then it's just more speculation.
SB [Post edited 8 May 2020 9:30]
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| Press front pages yesterday vs what will actually happen from Monday on 09:31 - May 8 with 273 views | lowhouseblue |
| Press front pages yesterday vs what will actually happen from Monday on 09:26 - May 8 by gordon |
Crikey, yeah, I never thought about it like that. |
yeah i've noticed. the constant re-running of decisions with the benefit of hindsight is pretty pointless. in normal politics governments get stuff wrong - in an unprecedented crisis they get even more stuff wrong. it's true of all governments. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Press front pages yesterday vs what will actually happen from Monday on 09:31 - May 8 with 267 views | Herbivore |
| Press front pages yesterday vs what will actually happen from Monday on 09:29 - May 8 by StokieBlue |
Well the SAGE member doesn't seem to agree on that point.
Boris didn't outline any specific measures - it seems the press have either made them up based on other countries, there was a leak or there was a briefing like you claim.
Do you have evidence that a government source gave specific examples of what might be lifted as per what is in the press? If you do then it's a fair point, if not then it's just more speculation.
SB [Post edited 8 May 2020 9:30]
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I think it's legitimate to take account of patterns of behaviour here, Stokie. | |
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| Press front pages yesterday vs what will actually happen from Monday on 09:33 - May 8 with 263 views | lowhouseblue |
| Press front pages yesterday vs what will actually happen from Monday on 09:28 - May 8 by Herbivore |
I always thought the Tory bot thing was just bantz, then I read that post. |
why make it about party politics? i'm not convinced a government of any other party would have made any different decision given what was known at the time and the advice they had received. sometimes stuff isn't about party politics - sorry. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Press front pages yesterday vs what will actually happen from Monday on 09:34 - May 8 with 250 views | Herbivore |
| Press front pages yesterday vs what will actually happen from Monday on 09:33 - May 8 by lowhouseblue |
why make it about party politics? i'm not convinced a government of any other party would have made any different decision given what was known at the time and the advice they had received. sometimes stuff isn't about party politics - sorry. |
Sure, sure. | |
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| Press front pages yesterday vs what will actually happen from Monday on 09:35 - May 8 with 252 views | MJallday |
One of the things I utterly dislike is the media’s insistence on publishing 5 point plans or what not 3 days in advance of any such thing being said by the authorities
It serves no purpose other than to confuse , divide and potentially risk lives. It should be illigal |  |
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| Press front pages yesterday vs what will actually happen from Monday on 09:36 - May 8 with 253 views | m14_blue |
| Press front pages yesterday vs what will actually happen from Monday on 09:23 - May 8 by lowhouseblue |
i don't believe this government is worse than any other government. no government is perfect. in physical systems like engines the maximum efficiency you get is about 80% - the same is true of social systems like governments. state failure is just as real as market failure - and it occurs irrespective of party.
added to this the true and honest answer to most questions about covid and what to do going forward is that we simply don't know. the science isn't uni-dimensional or settled. we are dealing with completely unavoidable ignorance and controversy. any government has to form best guesses and contingent judgements.
put those things together and i do not believe that this government has done anything significantly different from what any other conceivable government would have done. and that includes the various errors that have been made. |
Do you think any other government could/would have handled the communications better?
Do you agree that having a front bench completely and utterly devoid of any talent doesn’t help in times of national crisis? | | | |
| Press front pages yesterday vs what will actually happen from Monday on 09:36 - May 8 with 251 views | jimmyvet |
| Press front pages yesterday vs what will actually happen from Monday on 09:14 - May 8 by Herbivore |
The issue is that we have a government trying to run the country in the same way they ran a highly contentious and borderline illegal referendum campaign. They aren't remotely fit for the task, especially during a time of crisis.
The warning signs were there in the election campaign too, the constant lies and dishonesty, the anonymous briefings to journalists from "number 10 sources", the rebranding of the Conservative twitter feed as an independent fact checker. It's all geared towards deceiving the public and using the press to do it so as to convince them that the Tories are great and not remotely a total shambles. Any serious critique gets lost in a sea of deliberate misinformation.
It's no coincidence the stories about lockdown easing came shortly after Johnson got owned by Starmer at PMQs, or that it came at a time of mounting criticism of their approach as we reached the highest death toll in Europe. Whether lockdown will be eased, whether lives will be lost as people start to go out more, is all irrelevant to them. They got a feel good headline and when it goes tits up they can blame 'fake news'. Welcome to the UK in the 21st century, ladies and gents. This is what you voted for. |
This government is doing an ok job In very difficult circumstances. A Pandemic not seen for over 100 years so stop running on absolute rubbish constantly. The NHS has coped unlike many other developed countries in the world the economic response has been first class as well for most people. You on the left couldn’t give a damn about those who have lost lives you just all post absolute garbage all day long on here like you are experts. In the space of 24 hours you have gone from virus experts to now experts in journalism and government. Unbelievable and thank goodness the vast majority of the population are on the side of government and those that have suffered terribly from the devastating virus. This bias forum doesn’t in any way reflect the country’s mood but it allows the usual dozen left wing experts on here some comfort. | | | |
| Press front pages yesterday vs what will actually happen from Monday on 09:36 - May 8 with 243 views | Herbivore |
| Press front pages yesterday vs what will actually happen from Monday on 09:35 - May 8 by MJallday |
One of the things I utterly dislike is the media’s insistence on publishing 5 point plans or what not 3 days in advance of any such thing being said by the authorities
It serves no purpose other than to confuse , divide and potentially risk lives. It should be illigal |
Instead it's encouraged by our government. | |
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| Press front pages yesterday vs what will actually happen from Monday on 09:38 - May 8 with 245 views | BlueBadger |
| Press front pages yesterday vs what will actually happen from Monday on 09:23 - May 8 by lowhouseblue |
i don't believe this government is worse than any other government. no government is perfect. in physical systems like engines the maximum efficiency you get is about 80% - the same is true of social systems like governments. state failure is just as real as market failure - and it occurs irrespective of party.
added to this the true and honest answer to most questions about covid and what to do going forward is that we simply don't know. the science isn't uni-dimensional or settled. we are dealing with completely unavoidable ignorance and controversy. any government has to form best guesses and contingent judgements.
put those things together and i do not believe that this government has done anything significantly different from what any other conceivable government would have done. and that includes the various errors that have been made. |
'Yes, but her emails'. |  |
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| Press front pages yesterday vs what will actually happen from Monday on 09:39 - May 8 with 235 views | gordon |
| Press front pages yesterday vs what will actually happen from Monday on 09:29 - May 8 by StokieBlue |
Well the SAGE member doesn't seem to agree on that point.
Boris didn't outline any specific measures - it seems the press have either made them up based on other countries, there was a leak or there was a briefing like you claim.
Do you have evidence that a government source gave specific examples of what might be lifted as per what is in the press? If you do then it's a fair point, if not then it's just more speculation.
SB [Post edited 8 May 2020 9:30]
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This government announces policy via anonymous media briefings. It isn't really speculation to assume they are continuing to do so. | | | |
| Press front pages yesterday vs what will actually happen from Monday on 09:39 - May 8 with 236 views | m14_blue |
| Press front pages yesterday vs what will actually happen from Monday on 09:36 - May 8 by jimmyvet |
This government is doing an ok job In very difficult circumstances. A Pandemic not seen for over 100 years so stop running on absolute rubbish constantly. The NHS has coped unlike many other developed countries in the world the economic response has been first class as well for most people. You on the left couldn’t give a damn about those who have lost lives you just all post absolute garbage all day long on here like you are experts. In the space of 24 hours you have gone from virus experts to now experts in journalism and government. Unbelievable and thank goodness the vast majority of the population are on the side of government and those that have suffered terribly from the devastating virus. This bias forum doesn’t in any way reflect the country’s mood but it allows the usual dozen left wing experts on here some comfort. |
You’re an idiot.
You’re also an extremely offensive one. | | | |
| Press front pages yesterday vs what will actually happen from Monday on 09:40 - May 8 with 232 views | MJallday |
| Press front pages yesterday vs what will actually happen from Monday on 09:36 - May 8 by Herbivore |
Instead it's encouraged by our government. |
Im not sure encouraged is the right word
Tolerated is probably more accurate
Either way, you know as well as I do . People will take as read the Plans they read in the daily mail and others and then will ignore other info .
I Was rather hoping this crisis would drive some of the tabloids out of business tbh | |
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| Press front pages yesterday vs what will actually happen from Monday on 09:40 - May 8 with 232 views | r2d2 |
| Press front pages yesterday vs what will actually happen from Monday on 08:58 - May 8 by m14_blue |
He should have just said what they’ve been saying all along. Or he should have said what the changes were likely to be, vaguely hinting at positive changes but saying he would clarify on Sunday is an absurd position that would only have one outcome, particularly ahead of a BH weekend.
I don’t agree with Starmer constantly asking either, seems a bit populist for my liking. |
Starmer has been pushing that question too much. Looking for answers too quickly. The press lap it up. The whole thing has been media led. They are a disgrace as usual. |  | | |
| Press front pages yesterday vs what will actually happen from Monday on 09:41 - May 8 with 226 views | Herbivore |
| Press front pages yesterday vs what will actually happen from Monday on 09:36 - May 8 by jimmyvet |
This government is doing an ok job In very difficult circumstances. A Pandemic not seen for over 100 years so stop running on absolute rubbish constantly. The NHS has coped unlike many other developed countries in the world the economic response has been first class as well for most people. You on the left couldn’t give a damn about those who have lost lives you just all post absolute garbage all day long on here like you are experts. In the space of 24 hours you have gone from virus experts to now experts in journalism and government. Unbelievable and thank goodness the vast majority of the population are on the side of government and those that have suffered terribly from the devastating virus. This bias forum doesn’t in any way reflect the country’s mood but it allows the usual dozen left wing experts on here some comfort. |
Total garbage. We were 2-3 weeks behind mainland Europe and had the benefit of seeing what was happening there and learning lessons. We sat on our hands and now have the highest death toll in Europe. If you think that's doing a decent job then I'd suggest it's you that doesn't care about those affected by the virus. | |
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