| Anyone on hear had success or experience of fighting speeding tickets? 13:09 - Jun 22 with 7229 views | itfcjoe |
I mentioned on here last week that I got 2 within 45 minuts of each other.
Both in the same place, on the A12 average speed cameras between East Bergholt and Stratford St Mary.
I drive a Mercedes Vito, Crew Cab so 6 seater with 3 in the back, and was driving under the premise of it being a car, i.e 70mph on a dual carriageway, as know that minibuses have that rule.
I'm now wrong, and have adjusted driving to compensate for this......but frustrating that after 15 months driving up and down the A12 at 70mph (with a further 6 years before that in old similar style car/van which is also classified as should be doing 60) that I got done twice on one trip.
Speeds were 71mph and 70mph, and have been offered a course for the 70mph and 3 points plus £100 for the 71mph. An expensive trip.
Does anyone think there is any merit in going to court and explaining circumstances, accepting that I'm in wrong and have adjusted driving but was genuinely unaware and had been driving in this style for years without penalty in the hope of getting it knocked down to one ticket?
What are the costs of this just generally and if I were to lose? |  |
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| Anyone on hear had success or experience of fighting speeding tickets? on 13:15 - Jun 22 with 7183 views | Bluefish |
I would say you have no chance. Probably not what you want to hear but i think you need to take it on the chin |  |
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| Anyone on hear had success or experience of fighting speeding tickets? on 14:01 - Jun 22 with 7073 views | itfcjoe |
| Anyone on hear had success or experience of fighting speeding tickets? on 13:15 - Jun 22 by Bluefish |
I would say you have no chance. Probably not what you want to hear but i think you need to take it on the chin |
What's that based on? Genuinely interested to know | |
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| Anyone on hear had success or experience of fighting speeding tickets? on 14:08 - Jun 22 with 7051 views | uefacup81 |
| Anyone on hear had success or experience of fighting speeding tickets? on 14:01 - Jun 22 by itfcjoe |
What's that based on? Genuinely interested to know |
I think that argument would be very much reliant on getting a very sympathetic magistrate on a very good day.
The problem is that things like speeding etc., are strict liability offences - i.e. you do not need to prove intent. The mere act of committing the offence is sufficient to prove the offence.
If you wanted to take a very hard-nosed view of the circumstances, you could very easily throw up the argument that ignorance/misunderstanding of the law is no defence.
Just my two-penneth worth for what it is, but I think you'd be very lucky indeed to get anything out of that argument. |  |
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| Anyone on hear had success or experience of fighting speeding tickets? on 14:17 - Jun 22 with 7015 views | GeoffSentence |
| Anyone on hear had success or experience of fighting speeding tickets? on 14:01 - Jun 22 by itfcjoe |
What's that based on? Genuinely interested to know |
I would say it is based on the well known maxim that ignorance of the law is no defence.
That's not to say that I don't feel any sympathy for you as the differing speed limits for different vehicles complicates things and does lead to this sort of misunderstanding, but the so far as the law is concerned you don't have a leg to stand on. |  |
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| Anyone on hear had success or experience of fighting speeding tickets? on 14:20 - Jun 22 with 7003 views | LankHenners |
Whilst most people would sympathise with the position, ultimately it's a road user's duty to know the rules of the road and going up to the authorities with an 'I didn't know' defence is unlikely to make much progress.
May seem harsh to get pinged twice in quick succession but as far as the law is concerned, there's not a lot they can really do other than uphold the decision. |  |
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| Anyone on hear had success or experience of fighting speeding tickets? on 14:21 - Jun 22 with 7000 views | jas0999 |
The problem is in the eyes of the law, you have broken it. ‘I wasn’t aware of the rule’ is unlikely to wash with the vast majority of magistrates. At the end of the day you were caught speeding regardless of the circumstances.
That said if you get a remarkably lenient magistrate on a very good day you may stand a chance but I’d say it’s 5%-10% likely at best. |  | | |
| Anyone on hear had success or experience of fighting speeding tickets? on 14:24 - Jun 22 with 6988 views | Swansea_Blue |
You got to the bottom of the classification did you ? I remember you querying whether it was a car or LGV. I thought you were on good ground as there seemed to be a lot of Vitos counting as cars. Bit of a bum if that's not the case. |  |
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| Anyone on hear had success or experience of fighting speeding tickets? on 14:34 - Jun 22 with 6931 views | giant_stow |
| Anyone on hear had success or experience of fighting speeding tickets? on 14:24 - Jun 22 by Swansea_Blue |
You got to the bottom of the classification did you ? I remember you querying whether it was a car or LGV. I thought you were on good ground as there seemed to be a lot of Vitos counting as cars. Bit of a bum if that's not the case. |
Joes very unlucky - I used to drive my Dad's Vito which had been converted to carry a wheel chair and ramp - drove it like a car, despite dada's head bumping up against the ceiling over speed bumps! Never got a ticket. Everyone used to tease him that he owned a van, but it definitely felt like a car to me. |  |
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| Anyone on hear had success or experience of fighting speeding tickets? on 14:35 - Jun 22 with 6933 views | Fixed_It |
I think the only chance you would have is if there was still ambiguity over the class of vehicle. If that is no longer the case, ignorance of the law, or having gotten away with it on numerous previous occasions, is extremely unlikely to be viewed favourably and see them quashing it. Sorry. |  |
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| Anyone on hear had success or experience of fighting speeding tickets? on 14:37 - Jun 22 with 6925 views | xrayspecs |
Agree with other posters - not being aware of the law is not a strong argument in court.
Have done the course a couple of times now and it is reasonably good if any consolation. Reason for referencing this is that there were a number of hard luck stories on both courses, the organisers though were clear that the driver has a duty to know and follow the law. | | | |
| Anyone on hear had success or experience of fighting speeding tickets? on 14:39 - Jun 22 with 6927 views | itfcjoe |
| Anyone on hear had success or experience of fighting speeding tickets? on 14:24 - Jun 22 by Swansea_Blue |
You got to the bottom of the classification did you ? I remember you querying whether it was a car or LGV. I thought you were on good ground as there seemed to be a lot of Vitos counting as cars. Bit of a bum if that's not the case. |
Yep, managed to go through it all with a fine toothcomb and basically mine meets all the required criteria to be a dual purpose vehicle, and thus ok, bar the weight of it which is seemingly non negotiable
The reality is though that it is more to do with the VAT status of it, because I have claimed the VAT back on it as a works vehicle the garage register it is an 'N1' type vehicle, whereas if it was bought privately they may have registered it as an 'M1.
A Vito with 9 seats in it would be fine to go 70, but one with 6 seats in it is 60. A bit of a minefield.
Happy to take the a punishment, but would be good if it could just be argued it was one trip and that there is one fine to pay rather than 2. | |
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| Anyone on hear had success or experience of fighting speeding tickets? on 14:42 - Jun 22 with 6913 views | itfcjoe |
| Anyone on hear had success or experience of fighting speeding tickets? on 14:37 - Jun 22 by xrayspecs |
Agree with other posters - not being aware of the law is not a strong argument in court.
Have done the course a couple of times now and it is reasonably good if any consolation. Reason for referencing this is that there were a number of hard luck stories on both courses, the organisers though were clear that the driver has a duty to know and follow the law. |
I think what is a bit galling is that having done the course a number of years ago, and finding it genuinely useful it really changed my habits - and I don't speed anywhere now where before I would at times.
And then getting done twice for 70 and 71 in what I thought was a 70...... | |
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| Anyone on hear had success or experience of fighting speeding tickets? on 14:45 - Jun 22 with 6891 views | giant_stow |
| Anyone on hear had success or experience of fighting speeding tickets? on 14:42 - Jun 22 by itfcjoe |
I think what is a bit galling is that having done the course a number of years ago, and finding it genuinely useful it really changed my habits - and I don't speed anywhere now where before I would at times.
And then getting done twice for 70 and 71 in what I thought was a 70...... |
Don't blame you for feeling peeved about it. A real pisser. | |
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| Anyone on hear had success or experience of fighting speeding tickets? on 14:54 - Jun 22 with 6863 views | BlueBadger |
*smug, unhelpful and predictable on*
I successfully fight them by slowing down a bit and paying attention to signs, speedo and conditions on the road*
*smug, unhelpful and predictable off* |  |
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| Anyone on hear had success or experience of fighting speeding tickets? on 14:59 - Jun 22 with 6851 views | BLUEBEAT |
I got away with one.
Was in a company vehicle so all paperwork went initially to fleet lease company, then onto employer’s HR dept and eventually passed on to me but this process took nearly 3 months so prosecution window had expired. [Post edited 22 Jun 2020 18:34]
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| Anyone on hear had success or experience of fighting speeding tickets? on 15:32 - Jun 22 with 6791 views | fabian_illness |
I’ve had similar.
I was driving a VW transporter kombi.
I was on the A14 near Elmswell and got nabbed by a mobile camera at 68 mph.
I queried it and was told to check my log book.
Fortunately that particular vehicle had been given the classification ‘car’.
I sent a copy of the log book and it was overturned with a very polite letter.
My latest kombi has the van code assigned. |  | | |
| Anyone on hear had success or experience of fighting speeding tickets? on 15:37 - Jun 22 with 6772 views | Bluefish |
| Anyone on hear had success or experience of fighting speeding tickets? on 14:01 - Jun 22 by itfcjoe |
What's that based on? Genuinely interested to know |
Not a great deal I suppose. As I think you know I've worked in mobility/fleets for 20+ years and part of that is fines and driving offences. I am not an expert nor am I talking from any deal of research but I am not aware of anyone where that strategy has worked. We obviously see loads when it comes to losing a license but I don't see any other successful contesting that I know of, obviously it might happen though. I would suggest £200, 3 points and a few hours on an online course is cheaper than contesting. I am pretty sure with driving that pleading genuine ignorance doesn't work | |
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| Anyone on hear had success or experience of fighting speeding tickets? on 15:44 - Jun 22 with 6740 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Anyone on hear had success or experience of fighting speeding tickets? on 14:39 - Jun 22 by itfcjoe |
Yep, managed to go through it all with a fine toothcomb and basically mine meets all the required criteria to be a dual purpose vehicle, and thus ok, bar the weight of it which is seemingly non negotiable
The reality is though that it is more to do with the VAT status of it, because I have claimed the VAT back on it as a works vehicle the garage register it is an 'N1' type vehicle, whereas if it was bought privately they may have registered it as an 'M1.
A Vito with 9 seats in it would be fine to go 70, but one with 6 seats in it is 60. A bit of a minefield.
Happy to take the a punishment, but would be good if it could just be argued it was one trip and that there is one fine to pay rather than 2. |
A minefield indeed. Should have bought a Renault Twingo  | |
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| Anyone on hear had success or experience of fighting speeding tickets? on 16:27 - Jun 22 with 6680 views | Oldsmoker |
| Anyone on hear had success or experience of fighting speeding tickets? on 15:44 - Jun 22 by Swansea_Blue |
A minefield indeed. Should have bought a Renault Twingo |
Should have bought a Renault Twingo?
Has Joe not suffered enough? |  |
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| Anyone on hear had success or experience of fighting speeding tickets? on 17:26 - Jun 22 with 6629 views | Pinewoodblue |
Joe if you fight it you can’t win as you are guilty as charged.
My suggestion, presumably you have had two letters and from the same unit, would be to write and explain what has happened. Offer to attend the course and ask that they consider not proceeding with the second offence. Should they reject your appeal pay up and take the points.
Keep a copy of your correspondence and send it , with a copy of any reply to your MP.
Ask him if he thinks it’s fair.
Good luck, Forty years ago I used to often have to ring persecution departments at various Police forces Trying to get them to drop charges for motoring offences success rate was probably one in three. Good luck. |  |
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| Anyone on hear had success or experience of fighting speeding tickets? on 18:23 - Jun 22 with 6574 views | Bangor31 |
| Anyone on hear had success or experience of fighting speeding tickets? on 14:39 - Jun 22 by itfcjoe |
Yep, managed to go through it all with a fine toothcomb and basically mine meets all the required criteria to be a dual purpose vehicle, and thus ok, bar the weight of it which is seemingly non negotiable
The reality is though that it is more to do with the VAT status of it, because I have claimed the VAT back on it as a works vehicle the garage register it is an 'N1' type vehicle, whereas if it was bought privately they may have registered it as an 'M1.
A Vito with 9 seats in it would be fine to go 70, but one with 6 seats in it is 60. A bit of a minefield.
Happy to take the a punishment, but would be good if it could just be argued it was one trip and that there is one fine to pay rather than 2. |
The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 states that:
A minibus: a motor vehicle which is constructed or adapted to carry more than 8 but not more than 16 seated passengers in addition to the driver.
if your vehicle is only able to carry 7 (i interpreted 6 in back plus 1 in the front) i would say this is pretty solid ground to say you are considered a car.
I have less than zero knowledge in this area and law so take the above with as little credibility as possible lol [Post edited 22 Jun 2020 18:24]
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| Anyone on hear had success or experience of fighting speeding tickets? on 18:28 - Jun 22 with 6563 views | Radlett_blue |
| Anyone on hear had success or experience of fighting speeding tickets? on 14:42 - Jun 22 by itfcjoe |
I think what is a bit galling is that having done the course a number of years ago, and finding it genuinely useful it really changed my habits - and I don't speed anywhere now where before I would at times.
And then getting done twice for 70 and 71 in what I thought was a 70...... |
You've been unlucky & while you have nothing to lose by asking nicely for leniency, I think you're only likely to get off if you employ a "Mr Loophole" lawyer like the notorious Mr Freeman, who routinely seems to get rich people off motoring offences on dubious technicalities. Whether you wish to employ someone like that or pay him his fat fee is up to you. |  |
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| Anyone on hear had success or experience of fighting speeding tickets? on 18:51 - Jun 22 with 6511 views | itfcjoe |
| Anyone on hear had success or experience of fighting speeding tickets? on 18:28 - Jun 22 by Radlett_blue |
You've been unlucky & while you have nothing to lose by asking nicely for leniency, I think you're only likely to get off if you employ a "Mr Loophole" lawyer like the notorious Mr Freeman, who routinely seems to get rich people off motoring offences on dubious technicalities. Whether you wish to employ someone like that or pay him his fat fee is up to you. |
I’ve got a clean licence so not really worth it as will cost 5 times as much for nothing really, but think I may try what Pinewood spoke about in previous post | |
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| Anyone on hear had success or experience of fighting speeding tickets? on 19:50 - Jun 22 with 6422 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Anyone on hear had success or experience of fighting speeding tickets? on 18:51 - Jun 22 by itfcjoe |
I’ve got a clean licence so not really worth it as will cost 5 times as much for nothing really, but think I may try what Pinewood spoke about in previous post |
Give it a go it seems crazy that different speed limits apply dependent in method of purchase. | |
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