Forum | But can we call it Fascism yet? by monytowbray

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But can we call it Fascism yet? 19:46 - Jul 10 with 2677 views

Too many Universities and School Systems are about Radical Left Indoctrination, not Education. Therefore, I am telling the Treasury Department to re-examine their Tax-Exempt Status...
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) July 10, 2020

It’s a wobbly for sure in relation to the net closing in, but this reply nails it.

Dictators suppress dissent by first going after universities and intellectuals. Thatâ€™s because the smartest and most educated individuals within a society offer ideas and perspectives that challenge these dictators most effectively. Itâ€™s also why Trump wants to crush them. Evil.
— Eugene Gu, MD (@eugenegu) July 10, 2020

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But can we call it Fascism yet? on 22:14 - Jul 10 with 2067 views

sparks

Meanwhile fundamentalist churches retain tax exemption...

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But can we call it Fascism yet? on 22:25 - Jul 10 with 2041 views

SpruceMoose

No. Only when [REDACTED] says we can, and for now he's extremely relaxed about the whole thing.

	Pronouns: He/Him/His. "Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
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But can we call it Fascism yet? on 08:54 - Jul 11 with 1927 views

sparks

But can we call it Fascism yet? on 22:25 - Jul 10 by SpruceMoose
No. Only when [REDACTED] says we can, and for now he's extremely relaxed about the whole thing.

This morning, we have the breathtaking arrogance of commuting a sentence for a friend and adviser, duly convicted of a serious offence, on the basis that Trump claims the system was against him.

Extraoradinary and frightening that this can happen in real life, in a leading western nation. Be afraid.

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But can we call it Fascism yet? on 09:04 - Jul 11 with 1913 views

lowhouseblue

But can we call it Fascism yet? on 22:25 - Jul 10 by SpruceMoose
No. Only when [REDACTED] says we can, and for now he's extremely relaxed about the whole thing.

or expand your vocabulary and find words that are apposite - i'd suggest illiberal, populist, intolerant,and repressive. those words still imply bad you know.

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

-1

But can we call it Fascism yet? on 09:30 - Jul 11 with 1865 views

Herbivore

But can we call it Fascism yet? on 09:04 - Jul 11 by lowhouseblue
or expand your vocabulary and find words that are apposite - i'd suggest illiberal, populist, intolerant,and repressive. those words still imply bad you know.

What would you call it when you have all of those things alongside a primarily white nationalistic ideology? And a militarised police force? And declaration of war on the 'far left' (which seems to include most Black Americans and anyone who thinks they should be treated equally)? Surely there comes a time when taking all those things in the round the 'f' word doesn't seem to be too hyperbolic?

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But can we call it Fascism yet? on 09:37 - Jul 11 with 1852 views

BlueBadger

But can we call it Fascism yet? on 09:04 - Jul 11 by lowhouseblue
or expand your vocabulary and find words that are apposite - i'd suggest illiberal, populist, intolerant,and repressive. those words still imply bad you know.

It's not OP's fault, all these angry, stupid white racist aothorians looks the same to me as well..

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But can we call it Fascism yet? on 10:18 - Jul 11 with 1797 views

Libero

But can we call it Fascism yet? on 09:04 - Jul 11 by lowhouseblue
or expand your vocabulary and find words that are apposite - i'd suggest illiberal, populist, intolerant,and repressive. those words still imply bad you know.

“illiberal” made me lol.

But can we call it Fascism yet? on 10:23 - Jul 11 with 1793 views

lowhouseblue

But can we call it Fascism yet? on 09:30 - Jul 11 by Herbivore
What would you call it when you have all of those things alongside a primarily white nationalistic ideology? And a militarised police force? And declaration of war on the 'far left' (which seems to include most Black Americans and anyone who thinks they should be treated equally)? Surely there comes a time when taking all those things in the round the 'f' word doesn't seem to be too hyperbolic?

trump is very bad. but there's no point going down to his level and reducing politics to extremes and hollow cliches. an equally populist response which uses equally extreme rhetoric isn't an answer. trump is operating within one of the most liberal constitutions in the world and with one of the most effective structures of legal protection of individual rights. using the same word to describe trump as we use to describe the dictators of the early 20th century is hyperbolic. populist psychopath is probably nearer the mark.

But can we call it Fascism yet? on 10:28 - Jul 11 with 1775 views

Libero

But can we call it Fascism yet? on 10:23 - Jul 11 by lowhouseblue

Fairly explained and a very reasonable point, I get why you feel that way.

Would you at least concede that a lot of historic leaders that we consider “fascist” conducted themselves in the same manner that Trump currently is?

But can we call it Fascism yet? on 11:50 - Jul 11 with 1695 views

ElderGrizzly

‘Freeing’ Roger Stone is pretty much up there

INBOX: Statement from the Press Secretary Regarding Executive Grant of Clemency for Roger Stone, Jr. pic.twitter.com/JUudWEOB7N
— Johnny Verhovek (@JTHVerhovek) July 10, 2020

But can we call it Fascism yet? on 13:29 - Jul 11 with 1620 views

Herbivore

But can we call it Fascism yet? on 10:23 - Jul 11 by lowhouseblue

Your veneration of the US justice system rather clashes against them having the highest prison population in the world and literally thousands of poor Black Americans rotting in jail for months and years without even going to trial because they can't afford to pay a bail bond. The number of cases settled in the US by plea bargains is staggering and many of them may not have even committed an offence, it's just the only way to avoid jail time. I suggest you watch 13th and then come back to me about how liberal the US is and how well it protects people's rights.

[Post edited 11 Jul 2020 13:30]

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But can we call it Fascism yet? on 14:39 - Jul 11 with 1552 views

SpruceMoose

But can we call it Fascism yet? on 10:23 - Jul 11 by lowhouseblue

Ridiculous post.

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But can we call it Fascism yet? on 14:49 - Jul 11 with 1546 views

eastangliaisblue

But can we call it Fascism yet? on 10:23 - Jul 11 by lowhouseblue

The sentence about individual rights, is a bit misguided. The U.S might be called the land of the free, but land of the free it ain't.

But can we call it Fascism yet? on 15:02 - Jul 11 with 1509 views

LittleBoyBlue

But can we call it Fascism yet? on 08:54 - Jul 11 by sparks
This morning, we have the breathtaking arrogance of commuting a sentence for a friend and adviser, duly convicted of a serious offence, on the basis that Trump claims the system was against him. Extraoradinary and frightening that this can happen in real life, in a leading western nation. Be afraid.

You should be aware it's a Presidential privilege, to commute or pardon a certain number of convicted criminals whilst they are in office. Every single president in history has used this privilege, to release several convicts before their due time. It was introduced by the founding fathers so they could secure the release of their friends and supporters, who had been convicted of crimes, some which in the modern day would be classed as war crimes.
They usually leave it til the last few weeks they are in office, to avoid negative publicity for themselves and their parties, Trump is just so delusional in his self belief, he doesn't think it will affect him

"If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is necessary that at least once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things."

But can we call it Fascism yet? on 15:05 - Jul 11 with 1506 views

sparks

But can we call it Fascism yet? on 10:23 - Jul 11 by lowhouseblue

One of the most liberal constituions in the world?

Where interpretation is down to a supreme court, loaded by the President with right wing politically selected judges.

Where people are still fighting to keep creationism out of schools.

Where states are still bringing in laws to block abortion, or to make it practically very very difficult.

Where the president rides roughshod over due process and commutes sentences of people duly convicted by a jury of a serious offence?

Where the president actively seeks to influence proceedings and investigations by tweeting about them and trying to undermine confidence and credibility in those processes?

Where gay people continue to have to fight for basic equality before the law.

I could go on.

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But can we call it Fascism yet? on 08:37 - Jul 13 with 1340 views

Libero

But can we call it Fascism yet? on 10:28 - Jul 11 by Libero
Fairly explained and a very reasonable point, I get why you feel that way. Would you at least concede that a lot of historic leaders that we consider “fascist” conducted themselves in the same manner that Trump currently is?

Still interested to hear a response to this lowie, any chance?

But can we call it Fascism yet? on 08:58 - Jul 13 with 1299 views

lowhouseblue

But can we call it Fascism yet? on 08:37 - Jul 13 by Libero
Still interested to hear a response to this lowie, any chance?

i don't really get your point. do you mean in terms personality and personal behaviour. that dictators in the past were also often narcissistic sociopaths - if so that might well be very true. if you men in terms of rhetoric, then i think the comparison isn't really substantial beyond the fact that they all appealed to a populist approach to politics. if you're referring to policies actually enacted then there is very little meaningful comparison.

But can we call it Fascism yet? on 09:04 - Jul 13 with 1279 views

Libero

But can we call it Fascism yet? on 08:58 - Jul 13 by lowhouseblue

Apologies, I thought it was quite a straight forward question.

I'm just asking if you recognise that both the behaviour and rhetoric that Trump is currently actioning bares a striking similarity to that of individuals who we historically look at as being undeniably fascist?

I guess not judging from your response.

FWIW, I understand where you're coming from, even if I don't 100% agree. I do think that the term fascist is thrown around a bit liberally and that it can be counter productive.
However I also acknowledge the snarky point made by the OP, when is it okay to define actions that align themselves with fascist ideology as fascist?

Is it only in retrospect that Trump's behaviour/values/rhetoric will be acknowledged for what it is?

But can we call it Fascism yet? on 09:40 - Jul 13 with 1244 views

GlasgowBlue

But can we call it Fascism yet? on 09:04 - Jul 13 by Libero

You may find this article interesting as it attempts to answer the question posed in the op.

https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.premium-is-donald-trump-a-fascist-1.8913249

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But can we call it Fascism yet? on 10:08 - Jul 13 with 1215 views

DanTheMan

But can we call it Fascism yet? on 09:40 - Jul 13 by GlasgowBlue
You may find this article interesting as it attempts to answer the question posed in the op. https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.premium-is-donald-trump-a-fascist-1.8913249

Interesting.

I think I said this in a thread a few months back that we do probably need a new term for people like Trump and other leaders in Europe who aren't traditionally fascist (and as that article points out, you'd struggle to even define that) but are pretty damn close.

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But can we call it Fascism yet? on 10:12 - Jul 13 with 1200 views

Swansea_Blue

But can we call it Fascism yet? on 10:08 - Jul 13 by DanTheMan
Interesting. I think I said this in a thread a few months back that we do probably need a new term for people like Trump and other leaders in Europe who aren't traditionally fascist (and as that article points out, you'd struggle to even define that) but are pretty damn close.

How about 'c*nts'?

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But can we call it Fascism yet? on 10:23 - Jul 13 with 1175 views

eireblue

But can we call it Fascism yet? on 10:08 - Jul 13 by DanTheMan
Interesting. I think I said this in a thread a few months back that we do probably need a new term for people like Trump and other leaders in Europe who aren't traditionally fascist (and as that article points out, you'd struggle to even define that) but are pretty damn close.

If it walks pretty damn close to the way a duck walks, and talks in very similar manner, and looks remarkably similar to a ducks that have been observed before.

Then it is just a duck of a type you haven’t seen before.

What I don’t like about some of these articles, is the attitude expressed, i.e. people shouldn’t call Trump a fascist, because it appeals to his base, and he will use that.

That is simply giving in to a bully.

If you think someone is a racist, call them a racist. Ditto fascist.

But can we call it Fascism yet? on 10:23 - Jul 13 with 1175 views

DanTheMan

But can we call it Fascism yet? on 10:12 - Jul 13 by Swansea_Blue
How about 'c*nts'?

Sounds good.

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But can we call it Fascism yet? on 10:27 - Jul 13 with 1169 views

Swansea_Blue

But can we call it Fascism yet? on 10:23 - Jul 13 by DanTheMan
Sounds good.

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But can we call it Fascism yet? on 10:29 - Jul 13 with 1165 views

Libero

But can we call it Fascism yet? on 09:40 - Jul 13 by GlasgowBlue
You may find this article interesting as it attempts to answer the question posed in the op. https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.premium-is-donald-trump-a-fascist-1.8913249

Interesting read, thanks for sharing.

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