| Anyone off to (Or in Spain?) 18:45 - Jul 25 with 36107 views | bluelagos |
Quarantine for returning to the UK just announced on BBC breaking news.
FFS. [Post edited 25 Jul 2020 18:45]
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| Anyone off to (Or in Spain?) on 06:16 - Jul 29 with 3133 views | bluelagos |
| Anyone off to (Or in Spain?) on 04:05 - Jul 29 by giant_stow |
I think things have moved past public health vs the economy now that the govt has spent so much on mitigating covid. The two are more or less the same thing and ever more so, the longer this goes on. Furlough will end soon, as will the ban on evictions - real crushing poverty is just around the corner.
I also think you're forgetting that their are jobs at stake for those in the entertainment and travel industires. Read an article earlier about how people in seaside towns around britain are having to rely far more on govt support in all this.
In fact you could argue that putting yourself at risk by going to the pub/restaurant/holiday (home or abroad) is a selfless act which helps to support communities in dire straights. Especially while general infection levels are relatively low and summer is here - all this will only get worse when we move into winter (assuming there's no vacine etc).
(I speak as someone's who's been to the pub once and not planning a foreign trip, but will head off for a week away in England) |
Not good for my mental health to find myself agreeing with a budgie :-)
You make an excellent point about supporting local businesses. At a time when there will be significant closures / lost pubs, cafes etc. Am guessing it wont be the local wetherspoons going bust and lost to developers.
If we value our independent pubs, shops etc. boy do they need our support at the moment.
Same with the local restuaranteur in our favourite Spanish location. These guys need support too. (All assuming Govt. advice about the risk of travel is correct) Tourism supports local people in a positive way (albeit the environmental aspect is another aspect)
Lots of dilemmas abound around what we should be doing both in terms of protecting public health and supporting businesses / jobs / environmental concerns. Think we can all agree on that. | |
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| Anyone off to (Or in Spain?) on 06:17 - Jul 29 with 3131 views | Libero |
| Anyone off to (Or in Spain?) on 22:57 - Jul 28 by 26_Paz |
Why do you always have to have a dig? I’ve done nothing on this thread to warrant being called a ‘selfish arsehole’. It’s just childish and unnecessary. On the night you’re talking about I went to two pubs. Yeah, lock me up. Get a life mate. |
Go have a cry somewhere else, Paz. You were on here the week The pubs were about to open telling people you were booked in at 3 pubs and would probably try and rock up at a forth to cap the session off.
Proper knob head behaviour, and that’s without mentioning any of the other daft sh1t you’ve posted in recent months. [Post edited 29 Jul 2020 6:46]
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| Anyone off to (Or in Spain?) on 06:24 - Jul 29 with 3122 views | bluelagos |
| Anyone off to (Or in Spain?) on 16:37 - Jul 28 by jeera |
If you're gonna do it, that does sound the way.
4 weeks is worthwhile isn't it, but obviously not possible for everyone and if everyone could, then it might be rather busier!
Sounds nice though, has to be said. |
I think the environmental impact of travel does force us to consider the nature of our trips. I look back at horror with the weekenders I took to European cities when younger.
The stag party trip to a European city is something we love to do but is such a crazy was of conducting ourselves. Anyhow, all seems like a different era at the moment when you cant even go to nightclub atm. | |
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| Anyone off to (Or in Spain?) on 06:26 - Jul 29 with 3120 views | Libero |
| Anyone off to (Or in Spain?) on 06:24 - Jul 29 by bluelagos |
I think the environmental impact of travel does force us to consider the nature of our trips. I look back at horror with the weekenders I took to European cities when younger.
The stag party trip to a European city is something we love to do but is such a crazy was of conducting ourselves. Anyhow, all seems like a different era at the moment when you cant even go to nightclub atm. |
I was booked on a Stag to Amsterdam in October, I’ve informed the best man and stag that I won’t be going. I’ve lost a fair wedge of money in doing so, but I just cannot justify travelling abroad. | | | |
| Anyone off to (Or in Spain?) on 06:33 - Jul 29 with 3110 views | bluelagos |
| Anyone off to (Or in Spain?) on 06:26 - Jul 29 by Libero |
I was booked on a Stag to Amsterdam in October, I’ve informed the best man and stag that I won’t be going. I’ve lost a fair wedge of money in doing so, but I just cannot justify travelling abroad. |
And hopefully he will respect your reasons for doing so. I think we are a long way from getting back to normal.
In my search for some hills to practice cycling on, I have a booked a few days camping near the Malvern Hills. Lovely place but not sure lieing on a camp bed after a days hard cycling is quite the same as partying in Ibiza but age catches up with us all sooner or later! | |
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| Anyone off to (Or in Spain?) on 06:46 - Jul 29 with 3103 views | Libero |
| Anyone off to (Or in Spain?) on 06:33 - Jul 29 by bluelagos |
And hopefully he will respect your reasons for doing so. I think we are a long way from getting back to normal.
In my search for some hills to practice cycling on, I have a booked a few days camping near the Malvern Hills. Lovely place but not sure lieing on a camp bed after a days hard cycling is quite the same as partying in Ibiza but age catches up with us all sooner or later! |
Aye, they’re fine with it. It’s the other half of the hen do that my wife was supposed to be going on, I’m glad the blokes have dealt with it all with more class.
If it wasn’t for the fact it would decimate the industry and risk international relations between countries at a time when we’re already in the process of divorcing our neighbours and long term supporters, then I’d say that the best thing we could do is just ban all non essential travel in and out of the UK. I was stunned when at the height of the pandemic we were still letting thousands in a day with no restrictions or advice to isolate, etc.
It may be a bit bleak to say this, but I don’t understand how things can be “normal” again, every country is dealing with this differently and with varied success.
How can we have faith in what other countries are doing when a lot of what our own government are doing is questionable?
Remember New Zealand being clear of any cases? Making special dispensation for a family to visit a dying loved one, allowing them into the country only to discover they were carrying the virus.
How many times do you think that’s going to happen in and out of England/America/any other country that has relatively loose and ambiguous rules?
As I said earlier in the thread, where we are currently as a nation is a lot more tenuous than it appears the majority of people understand or accept. | | | |
| Anyone off to (Or in Spain?) on 07:00 - Jul 29 with 3086 views | bluelagos |
| Anyone off to (Or in Spain?) on 06:46 - Jul 29 by Libero |
Aye, they’re fine with it. It’s the other half of the hen do that my wife was supposed to be going on, I’m glad the blokes have dealt with it all with more class.
If it wasn’t for the fact it would decimate the industry and risk international relations between countries at a time when we’re already in the process of divorcing our neighbours and long term supporters, then I’d say that the best thing we could do is just ban all non essential travel in and out of the UK. I was stunned when at the height of the pandemic we were still letting thousands in a day with no restrictions or advice to isolate, etc.
It may be a bit bleak to say this, but I don’t understand how things can be “normal” again, every country is dealing with this differently and with varied success.
How can we have faith in what other countries are doing when a lot of what our own government are doing is questionable?
Remember New Zealand being clear of any cases? Making special dispensation for a family to visit a dying loved one, allowing them into the country only to discover they were carrying the virus.
How many times do you think that’s going to happen in and out of England/America/any other country that has relatively loose and ambiguous rules?
As I said earlier in the thread, where we are currently as a nation is a lot more tenuous than it appears the majority of people understand or accept. |
2 quick points.
Absolutely I dont see normality anytime soon. By which I mean this or even next year. We need either a vaccine or for the virus to run it's course, nothing else would lead us back to how we were pre virus.
But some time, maybe 5 motnhs, maybe 5 years, the virus will be in the past. The Spanish flu (which wasnt Spanish) killed incredible numbers (% wise) of populations when the world didnt really understand transmission. Yet the world did recover, did move on.
Not to minimise the devestating impact and the danger of second waves. But one day we will be througn this. It may be some time away but diseases run their course. And the sounds around possible vaccines sound encouraging.
As are the 1000s of selfless people happy to volunteer to be guinnea pigs for the vaccine. Usually people take a vaccine and they compare rates of infections after a few months, Because of the impact of CV people are volunteering to take the vaccine and be exposed to CV to see of it works. So we can test the vaccine much faster they are willing to risk infedtion.
The world is full of good people Libby, appreciate the news is full of sh1t ones. Always worth trying to remember that if you can :-) [Post edited 29 Jul 2020 7:03]
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| Anyone off to (Or in Spain?) on 07:04 - Jul 29 with 3076 views | 26_Paz |
| Anyone off to (Or in Spain?) on 06:17 - Jul 29 by Libero |
Go have a cry somewhere else, Paz. You were on here the week The pubs were about to open telling people you were booked in at 3 pubs and would probably try and rock up at a forth to cap the session off.
Proper knob head behaviour, and that’s without mentioning any of the other daft sh1t you’ve posted in recent months. [Post edited 29 Jul 2020 6:46]
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It was 2 with the possibility of rocking up at a third. Not that it’s any of your business. You don’t always have to be morally superior to everyone. |  |
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| Anyone off to (Or in Spain?) on 07:06 - Jul 29 with 3073 views | 26_Paz |
| Anyone off to (Or in Spain?) on 05:17 - Jul 29 by NewcyBlue |
“ You don't think supporting someone who laughs about watermelon smiles, bum boys, letterbox women and makes plans to assault journalists reflects badly on you. Correct, I don’t”
When anyone has been racist towards MrsN I have thought nothing of imposing myself upon them. I still believe it’s my right to punch a racist.
If someone were to make that comment about watermelon smiles in front of me, I would exercise my aforementioned right. |
That was after pages and pages of arguing about context. | |
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| Anyone off to (Or in Spain?) on 07:08 - Jul 29 with 3071 views | Libero |
| Anyone off to (Or in Spain?) on 07:00 - Jul 29 by bluelagos |
2 quick points.
Absolutely I dont see normality anytime soon. By which I mean this or even next year. We need either a vaccine or for the virus to run it's course, nothing else would lead us back to how we were pre virus.
But some time, maybe 5 motnhs, maybe 5 years, the virus will be in the past. The Spanish flu (which wasnt Spanish) killed incredible numbers (% wise) of populations when the world didnt really understand transmission. Yet the world did recover, did move on.
Not to minimise the devestating impact and the danger of second waves. But one day we will be througn this. It may be some time away but diseases run their course. And the sounds around possible vaccines sound encouraging.
As are the 1000s of selfless people happy to volunteer to be guinnea pigs for the vaccine. Usually people take a vaccine and they compare rates of infections after a few months, Because of the impact of CV people are volunteering to take the vaccine and be exposed to CV to see of it works. So we can test the vaccine much faster they are willing to risk infedtion.
The world is full of good people Libby, appreciate the news is full of sh1t ones. Always worth trying to remember that if you can :-) [Post edited 29 Jul 2020 7:03]
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Admire your optimism mate, but if all countries are working differently and at different stages to one another yet we still allow travel to these places it just perpetuates the virus and blocks the kind of progress you speak of.
There’s a lot of good people out there mate, no doubt, however beyond the binary nature of good or bad there are a lot of people out there who either aren’t particularly bright or are happy to play mental gymnastics to live with the fact they’re putting others at risk.
The way I see it a vaccine is our best hope for “normal” to return, otherwise the factors I mention above and various others will always play a part in our lives. | | | |
| Anyone off to (Or in Spain?) on 07:11 - Jul 29 with 3058 views | Libero |
| Anyone off to (Or in Spain?) on 07:04 - Jul 29 by 26_Paz |
It was 2 with the possibility of rocking up at a third. Not that it’s any of your business. You don’t always have to be morally superior to everyone. |
I’m not “morally superior to everyone” and I certainly have no intention of portraying myself as such - if I’ve got the numbers wrong then I apologise, it’s still berk behaviour, but I am sorry that you feel misrepresented.
Edit: I’ve found the original thread, I think my point stands regardless of error in figures. Ridiculously risky behaviour, perfect example of “just because you can do something doesn’t mean that you should”
Tomorrow by 26_Paz 3 Jul 2020 11:38I’ve got a couple of boozers booked for an all dayer tomorrow, really don’t know what to expect. We’ve booked into a couple of places just in case but really not sure what the general vibe will be ... will you be able to move to different pubs / bars etc or will they all be at capacity ... who knows!
Will it be good? Will it be rubbish? Will there be too many people? Will there not be many people? Maybe it’s the uncertainty that’s making it exciting ... either way I’m going to get trollied!
Hope you all enjoy it (safely) lads!
[Post edited 29 Jul 2020 7:21]
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| Anyone off to (Or in Spain?) on 07:25 - Jul 29 with 3045 views | bluelagos |
| Anyone off to (Or in Spain?) on 07:08 - Jul 29 by Libero |
Admire your optimism mate, but if all countries are working differently and at different stages to one another yet we still allow travel to these places it just perpetuates the virus and blocks the kind of progress you speak of.
There’s a lot of good people out there mate, no doubt, however beyond the binary nature of good or bad there are a lot of people out there who either aren’t particularly bright or are happy to play mental gymnastics to live with the fact they’re putting others at risk.
The way I see it a vaccine is our best hope for “normal” to return, otherwise the factors I mention above and various others will always play a part in our lives. |
Agree with all of that.
Have to say that a vaccine feels a million time better than the virus runbling on until we get herd immunity.
Perhaps where we differ is our attitudes to risk. I know I am way less risk averse than many people. Perhaps this comes from very nearly dieing at a football match but have always shrugged my shoulders at things many people feel are too risky to do. But that's one for the physiatrists out there and for another time.
So I am more happy to take a risk with my own health but of course your focus is admirably on others' health. I guess here I share your concern, and am very much minimising my socialising (like many)
But I am not reducing it to zero. I accept my four visits to pubs in as many weeks will have had an element of risk. All were short, none involved drunken hugs etc. but I will go again. Primarily because I, like many, am a social animal. I feel social contact is important to me and to others. It's why I would encourage parents worried about their kids playing football to consider the non physical benefits too.
As ever, what does bug me is when the debate is presented as economic v soread of a virus. There are so many more aspects to consider, namely people's well being.
Anyhow, got a very long ride today so going to sign off for now. Have a good one :-) | |
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| Anyone off to (Or in Spain?) on 07:29 - Jul 29 with 3038 views | 26_Paz |
| Anyone off to (Or in Spain?) on 07:11 - Jul 29 by Libero |
I’m not “morally superior to everyone” and I certainly have no intention of portraying myself as such - if I’ve got the numbers wrong then I apologise, it’s still berk behaviour, but I am sorry that you feel misrepresented.
Edit: I’ve found the original thread, I think my point stands regardless of error in figures. Ridiculously risky behaviour, perfect example of “just because you can do something doesn’t mean that you should”
Tomorrow by 26_Paz 3 Jul 2020 11:38I’ve got a couple of boozers booked for an all dayer tomorrow, really don’t know what to expect. We’ve booked into a couple of places just in case but really not sure what the general vibe will be ... will you be able to move to different pubs / bars etc or will they all be at capacity ... who knows!
Will it be good? Will it be rubbish? Will there be too many people? Will there not be many people? Maybe it’s the uncertainty that’s making it exciting ... either way I’m going to get trollied!
Hope you all enjoy it (safely) lads!
[Post edited 29 Jul 2020 7:21]
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I’d been stuck in a one bedroom flat on my own for months on end. If wanting to go out drinking after that (once it was legally allowed and deemed safe to do so by those in the know) makes me a berk then, yeah, I guess I’m a berk.
If booking a holiday at a time when it was deemed by those in the know to be safe makes me a selfish arsehole, then yeah, I guess I’m a selfish arsehole.
But, hey, we can’t all be saints otherwise there’d be no body for you to look down on. | |
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| Anyone off to (Or in Spain?) on 07:34 - Jul 29 with 3033 views | Libero |
| Anyone off to (Or in Spain?) on 07:25 - Jul 29 by bluelagos |
Agree with all of that.
Have to say that a vaccine feels a million time better than the virus runbling on until we get herd immunity.
Perhaps where we differ is our attitudes to risk. I know I am way less risk averse than many people. Perhaps this comes from very nearly dieing at a football match but have always shrugged my shoulders at things many people feel are too risky to do. But that's one for the physiatrists out there and for another time.
So I am more happy to take a risk with my own health but of course your focus is admirably on others' health. I guess here I share your concern, and am very much minimising my socialising (like many)
But I am not reducing it to zero. I accept my four visits to pubs in as many weeks will have had an element of risk. All were short, none involved drunken hugs etc. but I will go again. Primarily because I, like many, am a social animal. I feel social contact is important to me and to others. It's why I would encourage parents worried about their kids playing football to consider the non physical benefits too.
As ever, what does bug me is when the debate is presented as economic v soread of a virus. There are so many more aspects to consider, namely people's well being.
Anyhow, got a very long ride today so going to sign off for now. Have a good one :-) |
Interesting point you make highlighting how your own personal experiences/bias may play a part in your stance. I hadn’t really considered it, but maybe my own personal experiences of my bi polar and BPD means I am more resilient to putting my own wellbeing on the back burning in order to conform for a social convention or expectation, I’ve spent years and years learning how to hide the signs and repress any selfish motivations I might feel when struggling in order to maintain the relationships around me (sometimes successfully, sometimes unsuccessfully)
I can see a similarity between these actions and putting others health before my own personal desires.
Appreciate you sharing your views and I do understand where you’re coming from, I just feel so lucky to be living in such a clear little bubble at the moment compared to the rest of the country, the way to keep it clear is to take the precautions like wearing masks etc and to keep movements small and predictable. Once people start acting like it’s all over it will inevitably resurface unfortunately.
Enjoy your bike ride mate, cheers for the chat. | | | |
| Anyone off to (Or in Spain?) on 07:45 - Jul 29 with 3024 views | Libero |
| Anyone off to (Or in Spain?) on 07:29 - Jul 29 by 26_Paz |
I’d been stuck in a one bedroom flat on my own for months on end. If wanting to go out drinking after that (once it was legally allowed and deemed safe to do so by those in the know) makes me a berk then, yeah, I guess I’m a berk.
If booking a holiday at a time when it was deemed by those in the know to be safe makes me a selfish arsehole, then yeah, I guess I’m a selfish arsehole.
But, hey, we can’t all be saints otherwise there’d be no body for you to look down on. |
Your hiding behind the shield that is the illogical, ambiguous and often contradictory guidance.
Obviously your posts in here ignore the fact you were one of a small number of posters who were actively down playing the threat of the virus and making spurious claims about the validity of the number of sick people...
Going for a couple of pints is different to knocking the arse out of it and going on an all dayer across multiple pubs on the first day of opening.
My old dear has been shielding alone, away from her partner for a lot of the lockdown. During this time her father in law passed away and she was unable to go to the funeral, she also missed a holiday that she had booked and missed out on precious time with her grandchildren.
She cannot wait to be able to move more freely and we cannot wait for her to slowly rebuild herself mentally and get back to as close a form of normal as possible, people like yourself who have consistently downplayed the virus then knocked the arse out of anything that’s offered to them don’t have my sympathy.
We must exercise restraint and discipline in these testing circumstances, not look for what we can get away with and then push it as far as possible.
You might think this is all about some kind of superiority complex, but it isn’t. It’s about looking after one another, understanding that the sacrifices we make are to protect the most vulnerable among us and that we all have a part to play in quashing the effectivity of the spread of the virus while people much more clever than you or I work on vaccines/treatments/etc.
I’m sorry that initially mentioning you and your behaviour by name was triggering, I probably shouldn’t have done that, but I stand by the points I’ve made. [Post edited 29 Jul 2020 7:54]
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| Anyone off to (Or in Spain?) on 07:56 - Jul 29 with 3011 views | 26_Paz |
| Anyone off to (Or in Spain?) on 07:45 - Jul 29 by Libero |
Your hiding behind the shield that is the illogical, ambiguous and often contradictory guidance.
Obviously your posts in here ignore the fact you were one of a small number of posters who were actively down playing the threat of the virus and making spurious claims about the validity of the number of sick people...
Going for a couple of pints is different to knocking the arse out of it and going on an all dayer across multiple pubs on the first day of opening.
My old dear has been shielding alone, away from her partner for a lot of the lockdown. During this time her father in law passed away and she was unable to go to the funeral, she also missed a holiday that she had booked and missed out on precious time with her grandchildren.
She cannot wait to be able to move more freely and we cannot wait for her to slowly rebuild herself mentally and get back to as close a form of normal as possible, people like yourself who have consistently downplayed the virus then knocked the arse out of anything that’s offered to them don’t have my sympathy.
We must exercise restraint and discipline in these testing circumstances, not look for what we can get away with and then push it as far as possible.
You might think this is all about some kind of superiority complex, but it isn’t. It’s about looking after one another, understanding that the sacrifices we make are to protect the most vulnerable among us and that we all have a part to play in quashing the effectivity of the spread of the virus while people much more clever than you or I work on vaccines/treatments/etc.
I’m sorry that initially mentioning you and your behaviour by name was triggering, I probably shouldn’t have done that, but I stand by the points I’ve made. [Post edited 29 Jul 2020 7:54]
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Fair enough mate, and sorry for having a pop, I know you’re only doing what you think it’s best and for the right reasons. As someone else has said on this thread I think we all have different risk profiles and will all readjust to the ‘new normal’ in our own ways. | |
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| Anyone off to (Or in Spain?) on 07:58 - Jul 29 with 3007 views | Libero |
| Anyone off to (Or in Spain?) on 07:56 - Jul 29 by 26_Paz |
Fair enough mate, and sorry for having a pop, I know you’re only doing what you think it’s best and for the right reasons. As someone else has said on this thread I think we all have different risk profiles and will all readjust to the ‘new normal’ in our own ways. |
Fair play mate, appreciate we can settle it amicably.
Again, I apologise for dragging you in by name, that was unfair. Hope you have a good day. | | | |
| Anyone off to (Or in Spain?) on 08:00 - Jul 29 with 3001 views | 26_Paz |
| Anyone off to (Or in Spain?) on 07:58 - Jul 29 by Libero |
Fair play mate, appreciate we can settle it amicably.
Again, I apologise for dragging you in by name, that was unfair. Hope you have a good day. |
Cheers, you too | |
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| Anyone off to (Or in Spain?) on 08:25 - Jul 29 with 2984 views | Freddy |
| Anyone off to (Or in Spain?) on 18:56 - Jul 25 by Bent_double |
Is anyone surprised by this? I'm amazed that families are considering or even going on foreign holidays this year when this could happen anytime. |
Crazy that families are risking going to Spain |  | | |
| Anyone off to (Or in Spain?) on 09:05 - Jul 29 with 2958 views | Swansea_Blue |
Culture Sec is actively encouraging people to book holidays. That has to be irresponsible, shirley? And it's easy for him to say, as he won't be losing any salary if quarantine is brought in.
Reported in Guardian, but from o BBC interview this morning:
“But as long as people are aware of that risk [quarantine being introduced] they should continue to book holidays, but just bear in mind that this may happen, and sadly it has happened in Spain,” he told BBC Breakfast. |  |
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| Anyone off to (Or in Spain?) on 09:07 - Jul 29 with 2955 views | Libero |
| Anyone off to (Or in Spain?) on 09:05 - Jul 29 by Swansea_Blue |
Culture Sec is actively encouraging people to book holidays. That has to be irresponsible, shirley? And it's easy for him to say, as he won't be losing any salary if quarantine is brought in.
Reported in Guardian, but from o BBC interview this morning:
“But as long as people are aware of that risk [quarantine being introduced] they should continue to book holidays, but just bear in mind that this may happen, and sadly it has happened in Spain,” he told BBC Breakfast. |
Yup, massively irresponsible but it's not surprising, is it?
Ever since Boris diverted from the simple and clear message of "stay home" this bullsh*t has been creeping in. [Post edited 29 Jul 2020 9:09]
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| Anyone off to (Or in Spain?) on 09:21 - Jul 29 with 2937 views | 26_Paz |
| Anyone off to (Or in Spain?) on 09:05 - Jul 29 by Swansea_Blue |
Culture Sec is actively encouraging people to book holidays. That has to be irresponsible, shirley? And it's easy for him to say, as he won't be losing any salary if quarantine is brought in.
Reported in Guardian, but from o BBC interview this morning:
“But as long as people are aware of that risk [quarantine being introduced] they should continue to book holidays, but just bear in mind that this may happen, and sadly it has happened in Spain,” he told BBC Breakfast. |
My company sent an e mail yesterday saying that they’d pay people who got caught in Spain during their quarantine as it all happened so quickly but going forward won’t happen again ... hence no one going to risk booking now ... | |
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| Anyone off to (Or in Spain?) on 10:00 - Jul 29 with 2896 views | vapour_trail |
| Anyone off to (Or in Spain?) on 09:07 - Jul 29 by Libero |
Yup, massively irresponsible but it's not surprising, is it?
Ever since Boris diverted from the simple and clear message of "stay home" this bullsh*t has been creeping in. [Post edited 29 Jul 2020 9:09]
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Are you suggesting everyone should still be simply staying at home then? |  |
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