| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings 12:01 - Oct 13 with 20880 views | hype313 |
along with Priskin and Martin, although at least Priskin gave us that memorable goal against the Gooners. |  |
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| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings on 23:14 - Oct 13 with 3950 views | Garv |
| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings (n/t) on 20:10 - Oct 13 by wkj |
This post has been edited by an administrator |
That's one way to look at it. That suggests there's no judgement or decision making involved apart from what the drug tells you to do.
It's one thing driving with a drink in you, it's another driving with a drink in you and DECIDING to do something that is likely to further endanger yourself and others. [Post edited 13 Oct 2020 23:15]
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| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings (n/t) on 23:18 - Oct 13 with 3944 views | PhilTWTD |
| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings (n/t) on 20:10 - Oct 13 by wkj |
This post has been edited by an administrator |
As things stand, the matter is still to come to court so probably wise not to prejudge the case on here. |  | | |
| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings on 23:19 - Oct 13 with 3943 views | Garv |
| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings on 20:24 - Oct 13 by SpruceMoose |
I'm sorry, are you saying that there exist valid reasons or excuses for drink driving? [Post edited 13 Oct 2020 20:25]
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Not at all, I'm saying someone drink driving won't tell you everything about their character or personality.
I don't mean having other things going on in life excuses the act, if that's how that's come across. | |
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| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings on 23:22 - Oct 13 with 3939 views | Garv |
| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings on 18:58 - Oct 13 by Herbivore |
Derby sacked Richard Keough for being a passenger in a drink drive incident. |
'It's understood several factors counted against Keogh. He was the club captain, a senior player and it was felt he should have taken more responsibility on the night in question. These reasons, coupled with a serious injury sustained through a non-football activity, are why the club have felt it necessary to terminate Keogh's contract.' | |
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| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings on 00:06 - Oct 14 with 3920 views | SpruceMoose |
| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings on 23:19 - Oct 13 by Garv |
Not at all, I'm saying someone drink driving won't tell you everything about their character or personality.
I don't mean having other things going on in life excuses the act, if that's how that's come across. |
I disagree.
Willingly risking the lives of others tells us a lot about a person's character. |  |
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| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings (n/t) on 00:55 - Oct 14 with 3900 views | wkj |
| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings (n/t) on 23:18 - Oct 13 by PhilTWTD |
As things stand, the matter is still to come to court so probably wise not to prejudge the case on here. |
I respect you have obligations to adhere to given the visibility of the website, though I must admit I find it a tad harsh as I felt the comparison between the attitudes shown towards the way we view people who show a potentially dangerous lack of judgement based on if they play for us or not was valid and not defamatory. |  |
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| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings on 07:55 - Oct 14 with 3845 views | Herbivore |
| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings on 23:22 - Oct 13 by Garv |
'It's understood several factors counted against Keogh. He was the club captain, a senior player and it was felt he should have taken more responsibility on the night in question. These reasons, coupled with a serious injury sustained through a non-football activity, are why the club have felt it necessary to terminate Keogh's contract.' |
Norwood is a senior player who - if he is found guilty - also would have chosen to put himself and others at risk by drink driving. At the time on here a lot of people were rightly questioning why those who were behind the wheel were kept on and Keough was sacked, but we know it was really because Keough was past his best, injured for a year, and refused to take a pay cut. The two players that chose to drink and drive were grown adults, the law would be prosecuting them rather than Keough. |  |
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| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings on 10:35 - Oct 14 with 3788 views | jayessess |
| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings on 07:55 - Oct 14 by Herbivore |
Norwood is a senior player who - if he is found guilty - also would have chosen to put himself and others at risk by drink driving. At the time on here a lot of people were rightly questioning why those who were behind the wheel were kept on and Keough was sacked, but we know it was really because Keough was past his best, injured for a year, and refused to take a pay cut. The two players that chose to drink and drive were grown adults, the law would be prosecuting them rather than Keough. |
Keogh is suing Derby, I believe?
As I understand it, employment tribunals generally wouldn't consider a drink driving conviction, in itself, to be gross misconduct. |  |
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| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings on 10:40 - Oct 14 with 3782 views | Herbivore |
| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings on 10:35 - Oct 14 by jayessess |
Keogh is suing Derby, I believe?
As I understand it, employment tribunals generally wouldn't consider a drink driving conviction, in itself, to be gross misconduct. |
What if it was combined with past alcohol related disciplinary breaches and turning up to preseason training unfit and overweight? | |
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| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings on 10:49 - Oct 14 with 3774 views | jayessess |
| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings on 10:40 - Oct 14 by Herbivore |
What if it was combined with past alcohol related disciplinary breaches and turning up to preseason training unfit and overweight? |
Gross misconduct has to be considered on its own merits. Dismissing someone for an accumulation of disciplinary offences is something else and would involve the club having formally disciplined the employee for those things, issued written warnings in line with their disciplinary code etc.
(At least, for employees in a regular business anyway) [Post edited 14 Oct 2020 10:54]
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| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings on 16:49 - Oct 16 with 3675 views | Garv |
| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings on 00:06 - Oct 14 by SpruceMoose |
I disagree.
Willingly risking the lives of others tells us a lot about a person's character. |
Yes, but not how committed one is as a footballer, which suddenly is being questioned. | |
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| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings on 16:51 - Oct 16 with 3671 views | SpruceMoose |
| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings on 16:49 - Oct 16 by Garv |
Yes, but not how committed one is as a footballer, which suddenly is being questioned. |
Committed professionals don't risk their own lives, or the lives of others. They concentrate on their job.
I don't know why you're so desperate to bend over backwards to defend someone who is frankly fast becoming an embarrassment to the club, but your mental gymnastics are entertaining at least. | |
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"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings on 19:47 - Oct 16 with 3599 views | Herbivore |
| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings on 16:51 - Oct 16 by SpruceMoose |
Committed professionals don't risk their own lives, or the lives of others. They concentrate on their job.
I don't know why you're so desperate to bend over backwards to defend someone who is frankly fast becoming an embarrassment to the club, but your mental gymnastics are entertaining at least. |
He was a Paul Taylor fan, he gets stiff for wasters. | |
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| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings (n/t) on 21:38 - Oct 16 with 3556 views | PhilTWTD |
| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings (n/t) on 00:55 - Oct 14 by wkj |
I respect you have obligations to adhere to given the visibility of the website, though I must admit I find it a tad harsh as I felt the comparison between the attitudes shown towards the way we view people who show a potentially dangerous lack of judgement based on if they play for us or not was valid and not defamatory. |
Apologies if I was overzealous, just being careful, which has been our legal advice on these matters. I can't remember what your post said so I can't address what it said directly. | | | |
| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings on 17:12 - Oct 18 with 3404 views | Garv |
| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings on 19:47 - Oct 16 by Herbivore |
He was a Paul Taylor fan, he gets stiff for wasters. |
That's top banter, but grow up. | |
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| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings on 17:17 - Oct 18 with 3394 views | Garv |
| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings on 16:51 - Oct 16 by SpruceMoose |
Committed professionals don't risk their own lives, or the lives of others. They concentrate on their job.
I don't know why you're so desperate to bend over backwards to defend someone who is frankly fast becoming an embarrassment to the club, but your mental gymnastics are entertaining at least. |
I've not even defended him, you've just interpreted it that way. All I've done is pointed out where, in my opinion, people have gone over the top, like when they say someone is an embarrassment to their club. | |
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| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings on 17:28 - Oct 18 with 3380 views | SpruceMoose |
| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings on 17:17 - Oct 18 by Garv |
I've not even defended him, you've just interpreted it that way. All I've done is pointed out where, in my opinion, people have gone over the top, like when they say someone is an embarrassment to their club. |
You don't find drink driving players an embarrassment? | |
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"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings on 17:40 - Oct 18 with 3359 views | Keaneish |
| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings on 00:06 - Oct 14 by SpruceMoose |
I disagree.
Willingly risking the lives of others tells us a lot about a person's character. |
It’s legal to consume alcohol and drive. It’s illegal to consume too much alcohol and drive. The law is too grey and should be changed as toxicity has too much subjectivity and tolerance too many variables.
It’s a false notion to say anyone who has an alcoholic drink is willingly endangering lives when there’s legal precedent allowing alcohol in the bloodstream when driving. If there’s danger to life, why is it not completely illegal to consume alcohol? |  |
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| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings on 17:48 - Oct 18 with 3344 views | SpruceMoose |
| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings on 17:40 - Oct 18 by Keaneish |
It’s legal to consume alcohol and drive. It’s illegal to consume too much alcohol and drive. The law is too grey and should be changed as toxicity has too much subjectivity and tolerance too many variables.
It’s a false notion to say anyone who has an alcoholic drink is willingly endangering lives when there’s legal precedent allowing alcohol in the bloodstream when driving. If there’s danger to life, why is it not completely illegal to consume alcohol? |
Not sure why you're asking me?
I'd ban drinking and driving completely.
Anyone comfortably over the limit is risking lives. Again, the mental gymnastics required to excuse it are staggering. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings on 17:54 - Oct 18 with 3333 views | Keaneish |
| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings on 17:48 - Oct 18 by SpruceMoose |
Not sure why you're asking me?
I'd ban drinking and driving completely.
Anyone comfortably over the limit is risking lives. Again, the mental gymnastics required to excuse it are staggering. |
You’re beginning to polarise my point. I’m saying that you’re labelling Norwood an “embarrassment” without knowing all the facts. He’s been found over the limit - that’s all we know. What I’m saying is the law is really grey in terms of what limit is on an individual level as time vs toxicity is variable from person to person.
Making a judgement on character as it doesn’t abide by your own stance when not presented with all the facts is prejudice. | |
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| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings on 17:54 - Oct 18 with 3331 views | Herbivore |
| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings on 17:40 - Oct 18 by Keaneish |
It’s legal to consume alcohol and drive. It’s illegal to consume too much alcohol and drive. The law is too grey and should be changed as toxicity has too much subjectivity and tolerance too many variables.
It’s a false notion to say anyone who has an alcoholic drink is willingly endangering lives when there’s legal precedent allowing alcohol in the bloodstream when driving. If there’s danger to life, why is it not completely illegal to consume alcohol? |
Yeah it's definitely the law's fault. | |
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| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings on 17:58 - Oct 18 with 3325 views | SpruceMoose |
| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings on 17:54 - Oct 18 by Keaneish |
You’re beginning to polarise my point. I’m saying that you’re labelling Norwood an “embarrassment” without knowing all the facts. He’s been found over the limit - that’s all we know. What I’m saying is the law is really grey in terms of what limit is on an individual level as time vs toxicity is variable from person to person.
Making a judgement on character as it doesn’t abide by your own stance when not presented with all the facts is prejudice. |
No I'm not. You are. You took a point about knowingly driving over the legal limit and started asking about why drinking at all while driving is not banned entirely. 58 mcg isn't just over 35mcg. It's well over.
You seem comfortable in saying that sometimes there's a reasonable excuse for drink driving. I'm not. That's the simple difference. [Post edited 18 Oct 2020 18:00]
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings on 18:18 - Oct 18 with 3308 views | Keaneish |
| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings on 17:58 - Oct 18 by SpruceMoose |
No I'm not. You are. You took a point about knowingly driving over the legal limit and started asking about why drinking at all while driving is not banned entirely. 58 mcg isn't just over 35mcg. It's well over.
You seem comfortable in saying that sometimes there's a reasonable excuse for drink driving. I'm not. That's the simple difference. [Post edited 18 Oct 2020 18:00]
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As I’ve been saying, the law is too grey and open to interpretation. You’ve labelled Norwood as an embarrassment and someone intentionally risking lives. It may be that Norwood went to a friend’s gathering, stayed the night at their house and drove in the morning when he felt it safe to do so. That’s a very different context to someone smashing it up in a nightclub and deliberately driving home being negligent.
Norwood broke the law, no question. Whether he did it recklessly enough to be an embarrassment or to have brought shame on the club is too subjective.
I agree with you, it should be banned entirely so there’s no conjecture or devices in cars which don’t allow you to drive if it detects alcohol in the blood. | |
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| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings on 18:47 - Oct 18 with 3281 views | 66notout |
| Norwood rapidly becoming one of our most disappointing signings on 12:29 - Oct 13 by Herbivore |
Sack him for gross misconduct and get him off the payroll (assuming he's found guilty). |
Hear hear. He’s been done before for drink driving when he was at Forest Green. To go and do it again is the height of arrogance and ignorance, and we should wash our hands of him and put his £8,000 a week wages to better use.
The alarm bells should have been ringing had we done our own fit and proper person test. |  | | |
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