| It’s not really a question of “If†now 16:02 - Oct 14 with 12658 views | Darth_Koont |
Behind the record 58% in favour of independence, I’ve never seen these figures for the older age groups.
The prospects that Westminster can offer any sort of answer are bleak too. In fact, they’re looking more irrelevant than ever. |  |
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| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 09:20 - Oct 15 with 2937 views | Herbivore |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 09:05 - Oct 15 by Darth_Koont |
I’d prefer to pressure them for progressive policies rather than give them a free ride and encourage a return to performative politics.
I’d also like to tell them that a return to New Labour just isn’t good enough for a supposed centre-left political opposition. |
Return to New Labour? Not sure what you're basing that on. I think a lot of the most ardent Corbyn supporters have really jumped the shark. It's a shame as they are sabotaging the chances of Labour in much the same way they've accused others of doing so when Corbyn was leader. |  |
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| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 09:25 - Oct 15 with 2929 views | Kropotkin123 |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 16:50 - Oct 14 by bluelagos |
Am sure that would be one of the drivers for independence. Whether the EU (With Spain not wanting to encourage separatism) would welcome them, who knows? |
Yeah, the veto system is seemingly causing a fair few issues at the moment. I read this piece on Bloomberg recently -
https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/opinion/articles/2020-09-23/belarus-s-lukashenko-a |  |
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| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 09:27 - Oct 15 with 2926 views | Tangledupin_Blue |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 08:45 - Oct 15 by MonkeyAlan |
Let the Scots have independence. They will want back in when they realise how much money comes from English government. Free prescriptions etc. I'm not sure the EU will welcome them as a separate country, especially as it's another economy they would have to prop up. |
They don't get anything from 'English' government.
There is no English government. |  |
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| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 09:31 - Oct 15 with 2916 views | Darth_Koont |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 09:20 - Oct 15 by Herbivore |
Return to New Labour? Not sure what you're basing that on. I think a lot of the most ardent Corbyn supporters have really jumped the shark. It's a shame as they are sabotaging the chances of Labour in much the same way they've accused others of doing so when Corbyn was leader. |
Herbs, I supported Starmer in the leadership election and I have given him time. But how he’s led the party since (words and deeds) has been deeply troubling. He’s utterly bypassed the left and gone against almost every one of his 10 pledges.
That sort of politics isn’t just meaningless to me but it’s dangerous when it occupies the position of formal opposition. What am I meant to be supporting here and to what end?
If I see a change that I can support then I’ll be happy to give it. | |
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| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 09:34 - Oct 15 with 2912 views | Herbivore |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 09:31 - Oct 15 by Darth_Koont |
Herbs, I supported Starmer in the leadership election and I have given him time. But how he’s led the party since (words and deeds) has been deeply troubling. He’s utterly bypassed the left and gone against almost every one of his 10 pledges.
That sort of politics isn’t just meaningless to me but it’s dangerous when it occupies the position of formal opposition. What am I meant to be supporting here and to what end?
If I see a change that I can support then I’ll be happy to give it. |
You've given him time? He's been leader for 6 months and that entire 6 months has been consumed by a global pandemic. You say you're all about the policies but you're ditching Labour without them even seeing what kind of policies they are going to offer the electorate. And you've been critical of him more or less since day 1. | |
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| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 09:43 - Oct 15 with 2903 views | Darth_Koont |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 09:34 - Oct 15 by Herbivore |
You've given him time? He's been leader for 6 months and that entire 6 months has been consumed by a global pandemic. You say you're all about the policies but you're ditching Labour without them even seeing what kind of policies they are going to offer the electorate. And you've been critical of him more or less since day 1. |
That’s not true. But the difference between what he promised and what he’s delivered is stark.
His appointments and the handling of the internal inquiry and the whistleblower pay-offs have been very poor IMO. And I’ve not been a fan of how the parliamentary abstentions have been used.
Some may say it shows political shrewdness and a safe, soft establishment veneer that the Labour Party needs. But it’s looking unprincipled and ultimately regressive to me. | |
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| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 10:05 - Oct 15 with 2882 views | solomon |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 07:06 - Oct 15 by jeera |
Are you being deliberately obtuse? |
No |  | | |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 10:14 - Oct 15 with 2871 views | itfcjoe |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 09:05 - Oct 15 by Herbivore |
That's still a huge majority of SNP voters that do want to be part of the EU though. |
But if IndyRef 2 is based on leaving UK and joining EU, maybe a lot of that 58% drift away - it's more than 1 in 4 who wouldn't want to be in EU, if half of them drift of to staying in Union then it is 51% already |  |
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| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 10:41 - Oct 15 with 2850 views | Darth_Koont |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 10:14 - Oct 15 by itfcjoe |
But if IndyRef 2 is based on leaving UK and joining EU, maybe a lot of that 58% drift away - it's more than 1 in 4 who wouldn't want to be in EU, if half of them drift of to staying in Union then it is 51% already |
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| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 11:04 - Oct 15 with 2826 views | tractordownsouth |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 08:54 - Oct 15 by itfcjoe |
More than 1 in 4 SNP voters don't want to be in the EU either - why get independence from one bloc and then give it up to join another? |
I'm anti-Scottish independence because I don't think it will benefit their economy and without them, we're permanently lumbered with the Tories, but I think the SNP have a better argument when it comes to sovereignty.
Our MEPs largely vote with the majority in the European Parliament ( I think the stat was 89% but I'll have to verify that), whereas the Scots almost always end up with The Tories, despite never voting them in.
It's difficult to see where a referendum comes from, considering that Westminster has to grant it. I wonder if The Tories will allow them to have a vote eventually, if they're under the cosh. |  |
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| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 11:05 - Oct 15 with 2823 views | tractordownsouth |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 09:43 - Oct 15 by Darth_Koont |
That’s not true. But the difference between what he promised and what he’s delivered is stark.
His appointments and the handling of the internal inquiry and the whistleblower pay-offs have been very poor IMO. And I’ve not been a fan of how the parliamentary abstentions have been used.
Some may say it shows political shrewdness and a safe, soft establishment veneer that the Labour Party needs. But it’s looking unprincipled and ultimately regressive to me. |
So the only substantial thing you're annoyed about him for doing is giving compensation to people who suffered anti-semitic abuse? | |
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| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 11:13 - Oct 15 with 2809 views | itfcjoe |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 10:41 - Oct 15 by Darth_Koont |
? |
58% support Scotland's independence
More than 1 in 4 don't want to join the EU after gaining independence from UK
Call it then 15% of the electorate
If IndyRef2 is about leaving UK and rejoining EU, this 15% may not vote for it
If half chose not to then 58% become 50-51% | |
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| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 11:23 - Oct 15 with 2789 views | Darth_Koont |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 11:05 - Oct 15 by tractordownsouth |
So the only substantial thing you're annoyed about him for doing is giving compensation to people who suffered anti-semitic abuse? |
Oh please.
Did you just see the Nita Clarke failure? These micro-aggressions have been on a daily basis. | |
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| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 11:33 - Oct 15 with 2775 views | Darth_Koont |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 11:04 - Oct 15 by tractordownsouth |
I'm anti-Scottish independence because I don't think it will benefit their economy and without them, we're permanently lumbered with the Tories, but I think the SNP have a better argument when it comes to sovereignty.
Our MEPs largely vote with the majority in the European Parliament ( I think the stat was 89% but I'll have to verify that), whereas the Scots almost always end up with The Tories, despite never voting them in.
It's difficult to see where a referendum comes from, considering that Westminster has to grant it. I wonder if The Tories will allow them to have a vote eventually, if they're under the cosh. |
There’s ultimately an argument to go past Westminster anyway and go full separatist.
The current UK government has little legitimacy and little argument that there’s not been the significant material change in circumstances since the last referendum due to a no deal Brexit they themselves have pushed through. | |
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| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 12:50 - Oct 15 with 2738 views | tractordownsouth |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 11:23 - Oct 15 by Darth_Koont |
Oh please.
Did you just see the Nita Clarke failure? These micro-aggressions have been on a daily basis. |
She wasn't appointed - I'm glad that hasn't happened too.
What other "micro-aggressions" are you referring to? | |
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| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 13:16 - Oct 15 with 2730 views | TJS |
If Scotland voted for independence wouldn't they have to start Brexit style negotiations with the rest of the UK or is the whole thing based on the assumption that the SNP automatically gets everything it wants ? [Post edited 15 Oct 2020 13:17]
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| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 13:26 - Oct 15 with 2712 views | MonkeyAlan |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 09:27 - Oct 15 by Tangledupin_Blue |
They don't get anything from 'English' government.
There is no English government. |
I make you right.  |  | | |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 13:27 - Oct 15 with 2716 views | giant_stow |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 13:16 - Oct 15 by TJS |
If Scotland voted for independence wouldn't they have to start Brexit style negotiations with the rest of the UK or is the whole thing based on the assumption that the SNP automatically gets everything it wants ? [Post edited 15 Oct 2020 13:17]
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Last time they wanted a moon on the stick (use of the pound, no propper share of debt and all the oil money) but no idea if they've got real since that. |  |
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| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 13:56 - Oct 15 with 2698 views | TJS |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 13:27 - Oct 15 by giant_stow |
Last time they wanted a moon on the stick (use of the pound, no propper share of debt and all the oil money) but no idea if they've got real since that. |
I personally can't see how you could possibly join the EU whilst sharing a currency with a non-EU country. | | | |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 14:07 - Oct 15 with 2691 views | Herbivore |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 13:27 - Oct 15 by giant_stow |
Last time they wanted a moon on the stick (use of the pound, no propper share of debt and all the oil money) but no idea if they've got real since that. |
I think that all seems reasonable. | |
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| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 14:12 - Oct 15 with 2680 views | giant_stow |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 14:07 - Oct 15 by Herbivore |
I think that all seems reasonable. |
Wow you've gone native quickly! | |
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| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 15:44 - Oct 15 with 2644 views | Tangledupin_Blue |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 13:56 - Oct 15 by TJS |
I personally can't see how you could possibly join the EU whilst sharing a currency with a non-EU country. |
Isn't it the case that any new country joining the EU will be required to adopt the Euro? | |
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| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 16:25 - Oct 15 with 2622 views | TJS |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 15:44 - Oct 15 by Tangledupin_Blue |
Isn't it the case that any new country joining the EU will be required to adopt the Euro? |
I think you would at least have to agree to being on a pathway to adopting the euro.
Good job 'father of the nation' Mr Salmond is out of the picture as he'd probably be on a pathway to adopting the rouble. [Post edited 15 Oct 2020 16:26]
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| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 20:25 - Oct 15 with 2568 views | bluejacko |
Scotland to rejoin the EU would cause them mega border problems.
At least theROI has some ferry routes to Spain and I think the south of France but Scotland has one ferry a week that goes to Norway. Their goods would have to come through England with all the tariffs etc that would be due. Good luck with that! |  | | |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 20:39 - Oct 15 with 2561 views | NewcyBlue |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 20:25 - Oct 15 by bluejacko |
Scotland to rejoin the EU would cause them mega border problems.
At least theROI has some ferry routes to Spain and I think the south of France but Scotland has one ferry a week that goes to Norway. Their goods would have to come through England with all the tariffs etc that would be due. Good luck with that! |
There are plenty of feeder vessels that go up to Scotland.
Containers don’t go from Felixstowe to Scotland just by road. |  |
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