| It’s not really a question of “If†now 16:02 - Oct 14 with 12968 views | Darth_Koont |
Behind the record 58% in favour of independence, I’ve never seen these figures for the older age groups.
The prospects that Westminster can offer any sort of answer are bleak too. In fact, they’re looking more irrelevant than ever. |  |
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| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 20:06 - Oct 14 with 4223 views | Pinewoodblue |
Have several friends who are active members of SNP. They all used to be active members of Scottish Labour Party which they now refer to as Red Tories. |  |
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| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 20:25 - Oct 14 with 4203 views | J2BLUE |
Any petitions we can sign to hurry this up? |  |
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| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 20:38 - Oct 14 with 4191 views | NewcyBlue |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 20:25 - Oct 14 by J2BLUE |
Any petitions we can sign to hurry this up? |
You did on 23rd June 2016 |  |
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| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 20:54 - Oct 14 with 4179 views | J2BLUE |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 20:38 - Oct 14 by NewcyBlue |
You did on 23rd June 2016 |
Well played | |
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| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 21:17 - Oct 14 with 4161 views | Tangledupin_Blue |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 16:05 - Oct 14 by NewcyBlue |
Send Big William Wallace down to claim Northumberland and Tyneside please. |
And keep marching, all the way to Suffolk. |  |
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| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 21:19 - Oct 14 with 4160 views | Pendejo |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 17:55 - Oct 14 by Darth_Koont |
But the UK is outside the EU.
The Spanish government’s concern was that the EU can’t provide the framework for separatists within an EU country to be independent. Which it probably does.
I think they’d have been manageable on that point anyway but now it’s nothing to do with Spain. It would be akin to them rejecting Czech Republic, Slovakia or any of the former Yugoslav nations which of course they didn’t do. |
The Czech / Slovak thing was an amicable separation, something akin to which could possibly occur in Belgium.
The break up of the former Yugoslavia predates EU, as opposed to EEC, only Croatia and Slovenia have joined. The only 2 that in their current form pre-date EU (91 v 93)
Spain would oppose Gibraltar joining EU, mainly as they hold a claim, and no way would they grant independence to Basque or Catalonian regions, within or without EU. I'm sure both NI & Scotland would be attractive to EU as a two fingered salute to England, but their are other regions within EU countries, Bavaria for example, that may want to seek independence and many established countries wouldn't countenance that.
More importantly who will liberate us from the Etonian Mafia? |  |
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| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 22:25 - Oct 14 with 4127 views | tractordownsouth |
Depressing stuff from The Conservative and Unionist Party. |  |
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| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 06:38 - Oct 15 with 4081 views | Darth_Koont |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 18:48 - Oct 14 by pointofblue |
I’ve always wanted to ask you this (and I’m sorry I can only give you one up vote for your post which I fully agree with) - if Labour adopted the SNP’s policies, except for independence, would that be enough for the party to step away from the New Labour shadow which has been haunting it for the last 20 years? I have to admit I’m not as educated as I should be with Scottish politics so am unsure how close the SNP manifesto was to Labour’s in 2019. |
The SNP is pretty broad church and quite a soft form of social democracy too. And based on not being able to run the country as fully as they’d like as a sovereign currency.
So I think Labour’s plans in 2017 and 2019 were more radical. And as they should be as they’re countering decades of conservative thinking.
But ultimately it comes down to trust or a lack of it. I thought Labour’s policies would do more to give people In Scotland hope re: a better union. But they were right not to fall for it as Labour have reverted to type. Because that’s the problem with Labour, New Labour isn’t a shadow it’s who the party is and who controls it to all intents and purposes. I’m happy to leave them to it. | |
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| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 06:58 - Oct 15 with 4065 views | solomon |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 16:38 - Oct 14 by factual_blue |
The best scenario - just leave the tories in charge of Oxfordshire and Somerset.
The brexiteers get Essex. |
Then suffolk and Norfolk can once again be the kingdom of the angles again, I’d be happy with that. Freedom. |  | | |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 07:06 - Oct 15 with 4061 views | jeera |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 06:58 - Oct 15 by solomon |
Then suffolk and Norfolk can once again be the kingdom of the angles again, I’d be happy with that. Freedom. |
Are you being deliberately obtuse? |  |
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| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 07:12 - Oct 15 with 4057 views | cleaner |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 06:38 - Oct 15 by Darth_Koont |
The SNP is pretty broad church and quite a soft form of social democracy too. And based on not being able to run the country as fully as they’d like as a sovereign currency.
So I think Labour’s plans in 2017 and 2019 were more radical. And as they should be as they’re countering decades of conservative thinking.
But ultimately it comes down to trust or a lack of it. I thought Labour’s policies would do more to give people In Scotland hope re: a better union. But they were right not to fall for it as Labour have reverted to type. Because that’s the problem with Labour, New Labour isn’t a shadow it’s who the party is and who controls it to all intents and purposes. I’m happy to leave them to it. |
Would you accept cleaners in Scotland on the old Visas? Cleaner loves a bit of Irn Bru. Cleaner once got so trolled on the orange fizz that he chucked the bottle in the general rubbish instead of the recycling. At the time, Cleaner's name was fairly well tarnished and Cleaner lost his sweeper of the month awards, though everything is on the up as Cleaner is now the head of the sponge division. |  | | |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 07:39 - Oct 15 with 4035 views | Herbivore |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 06:38 - Oct 15 by Darth_Koont |
The SNP is pretty broad church and quite a soft form of social democracy too. And based on not being able to run the country as fully as they’d like as a sovereign currency.
So I think Labour’s plans in 2017 and 2019 were more radical. And as they should be as they’re countering decades of conservative thinking.
But ultimately it comes down to trust or a lack of it. I thought Labour’s policies would do more to give people In Scotland hope re: a better union. But they were right not to fall for it as Labour have reverted to type. Because that’s the problem with Labour, New Labour isn’t a shadow it’s who the party is and who controls it to all intents and purposes. I’m happy to leave them to it. |
On the one hand you say politics should be about policy, on the other hand you've decided to ditch Labour before knowing what their policy programme will actually look like. I find it hard to square that circle. |  |
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| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 08:06 - Oct 15 with 4026 views | Darth_Koont |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 07:39 - Oct 15 by Herbivore |
On the one hand you say politics should be about policy, on the other hand you've decided to ditch Labour before knowing what their policy programme will actually look like. I find it hard to square that circle. |
In the absence of policy, I don’t like Labour and I don’t trust them. They got my support from 2015-2019 because they were offering something else and a genuinely progressive platform for a change.
They’ve now reverted back to type with an almighty bang. Feck ‘em - if they want my support they can come looking for it. | |
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| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 08:10 - Oct 15 with 4015 views | Herbivore |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 08:06 - Oct 15 by Darth_Koont |
In the absence of policy, I don’t like Labour and I don’t trust them. They got my support from 2015-2019 because they were offering something else and a genuinely progressive platform for a change.
They’ve now reverted back to type with an almighty bang. Feck ‘em - if they want my support they can come looking for it. |
So it's not really about policy. | |
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| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 08:19 - Oct 15 with 4004 views | Darth_Koont |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 08:10 - Oct 15 by Herbivore |
So it's not really about policy. |
Yes it is. And there’s currently nothing there to support, not even a commitment that can be trusted. I’m happy to be critical of their rhetoric around family, nation and opportunity as opposed to talking about structural change and equality, and for my vote to remain undecided until it matters.
Let them prove me wrong. | |
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| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 08:23 - Oct 15 with 3992 views | Herbivore |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 08:19 - Oct 15 by Darth_Koont |
Yes it is. And there’s currently nothing there to support, not even a commitment that can be trusted. I’m happy to be critical of their rhetoric around family, nation and opportunity as opposed to talking about structural change and equality, and for my vote to remain undecided until it matters.
Let them prove me wrong. |
There's no policy to appraise at this point so I struggle to see how it's about policy. Being on the fence is one thing, but thus far and especially in recent weeks you've not been on the fence, you've actively taken against Labour. It feels like the kind of personality politics you argue vehemently against. | |
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| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 08:35 - Oct 15 with 3980 views | Darth_Koont |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 08:23 - Oct 15 by Herbivore |
There's no policy to appraise at this point so I struggle to see how it's about policy. Being on the fence is one thing, but thus far and especially in recent weeks you've not been on the fence, you've actively taken against Labour. It feels like the kind of personality politics you argue vehemently against. |
I see a leader who has done nothing to bring unity (actually the opposite) or to back up his leadership pledges. I see instead a shift back to New Labour and the party being controlled by the Labour right.
People may trot out the usual bobbins about appealing to the centre (missing the point that it’s the traditional support and the left it’s really lacking, not to mention how the center has been outflanked for a decade or more) but that’s selling out. If the centre had any value then the Labour right and the LibDems wouldn’t be so bereft of ideas. Stand up for a genuine alternative rather than just comfortable, competent management and make the centre decide if it wants that or the Tories again.
It all seems a massively retrograde step and taking us back to the empty, lazy politics that created or exacerbated most of the underlying problems in the UK, socially and economically. | |
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| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 08:44 - Oct 15 with 3966 views | Herbivore |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 08:35 - Oct 15 by Darth_Koont |
I see a leader who has done nothing to bring unity (actually the opposite) or to back up his leadership pledges. I see instead a shift back to New Labour and the party being controlled by the Labour right.
People may trot out the usual bobbins about appealing to the centre (missing the point that it’s the traditional support and the left it’s really lacking, not to mention how the center has been outflanked for a decade or more) but that’s selling out. If the centre had any value then the Labour right and the LibDems wouldn’t be so bereft of ideas. Stand up for a genuine alternative rather than just comfortable, competent management and make the centre decide if it wants that or the Tories again.
It all seems a massively retrograde step and taking us back to the empty, lazy politics that created or exacerbated most of the underlying problems in the UK, socially and economically. |
None of which is based on actual policy, since no policy has been proposed yet. It's based on perception, and I seem to recall you having a lot to say about perception when it came to people being anti-Corbyn. I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. | |
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| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 08:45 - Oct 15 with 3965 views | MonkeyAlan |
Let the Scots have independence. They will want back in when they realise how much money comes from English government. Free prescriptions etc. I'm not sure the EU will welcome them as a separate country, especially as it's another economy they would have to prop up. |  | | |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 08:50 - Oct 15 with 3961 views | Darth_Koont |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 08:44 - Oct 15 by Herbivore |
None of which is based on actual policy, since no policy has been proposed yet. It's based on perception, and I seem to recall you having a lot to say about perception when it came to people being anti-Corbyn. I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. |
Indeed. Until they fill the gap with interesting and valuable policies then I only have the manner in which the party is being led and who is being listened to/courted. I only have distaste and distrust for that approach so far. | |
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| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 08:53 - Oct 15 with 3956 views | Herbivore |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 08:50 - Oct 15 by Darth_Koont |
Indeed. Until they fill the gap with interesting and valuable policies then I only have the manner in which the party is being led and who is being listened to/courted. I only have distaste and distrust for that approach so far. |
Maybe wait for some actual policy. That's what I'm doing. | |
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| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 08:54 - Oct 15 with 3954 views | itfcjoe |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 17:13 - Oct 14 by Darth_Koont |
No question about it.
What sort of country wouldn’t want to be on the inside of the largest and most enlightened trade bloc in the world? |
More than 1 in 4 SNP voters don't want to be in the EU either - why get independence from one bloc and then give it up to join another? |  |
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| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 08:59 - Oct 15 with 3946 views | Darth_Koont |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 08:54 - Oct 15 by itfcjoe |
More than 1 in 4 SNP voters don't want to be in the EU either - why get independence from one bloc and then give it up to join another? |
Maybe they’re two different entities with vastly different pros and cons? | |
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| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 09:05 - Oct 15 with 3937 views | Herbivore |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 08:54 - Oct 15 by itfcjoe |
More than 1 in 4 SNP voters don't want to be in the EU either - why get independence from one bloc and then give it up to join another? |
That's still a huge majority of SNP voters that do want to be part of the EU though. | |
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| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 09:05 - Oct 15 with 3938 views | Darth_Koont |
| It’s not really a question of “If” now on 08:53 - Oct 15 by Herbivore |
Maybe wait for some actual policy. That's what I'm doing. |
I’d prefer to pressure them for progressive policies rather than give them a free ride and encourage a return to performative politics.
I’d also like to tell them that a return to New Labour just isn’t good enough for a supposed centre-left political opposition. | |
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