| Oldest team in the league 12:32 - Nov 15 with 13519 views | dingus |
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| Oldest team in the league on 14:32 - Nov 15 with 1666 views | BlueBadger |
| Oldest team in the league on 14:18 - Nov 15 by PJH |
What (or who) is our first choice 11?
If everyone was available, which is not likely to happen, not many people on here would pick the same 11 and I doubt if PL knows what his ideal first choice 11 would be from our current squad. |
What ever it is, it almost certainly would include Chambers, Ward and Judge as starters. |  |
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| Oldest team in the league on 14:38 - Nov 15 with 1659 views | PJH |
| Oldest team in the league on 14:32 - Nov 15 by BlueBadger |
What ever it is, it almost certainly would include Chambers, Ward and Judge as starters. |
But then we might be the oldest team in the league  |  | | |
| Oldest team in the league on 14:40 - Nov 15 with 1659 views | judespiveyg |
| Oldest team in the league on 14:18 - Nov 15 by PJH |
What (or who) is our first choice 11?
If everyone was available, which is not likely to happen, not many people on here would pick the same 11 and I doubt if PL knows what his ideal first choice 11 would be from our current squad. |
Paul Lambert probably would find a way to get Judge in here somehow but I really can't see a better lineup for us than
Holy
Vincent-Young
Wolf
Mcguiness
Ward
Downes
Dozzell
Bishop
Lankester
Hawkins
Edwards
Maybe Chambers at centre half, but that has just the one player over 30 (Ward). Problem is this requires Downes and KVY to be fit. [Post edited 15 Nov 2020 14:41]
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| I survived Ipswich 0-0 Burton |
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| Oldest team in the league on 14:48 - Nov 15 with 1647 views | PJH |
| Oldest team in the league on 14:40 - Nov 15 by judespiveyg |
Paul Lambert probably would find a way to get Judge in here somehow but I really can't see a better lineup for us than
Holy
Vincent-Young
Wolf
Mcguiness
Ward
Downes
Dozzell
Bishop
Lankester
Hawkins
Edwards
Maybe Chambers at centre half, but that has just the one player over 30 (Ward). Problem is this requires Downes and KVY to be fit. [Post edited 15 Nov 2020 14:41]
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I think the only player on that list that would get in everyone's 11, or at least almost everyone's, is Vincent-Young.
A lot of them would get in most peoples team but my original question 'What is our best 11?' would not get universal agreement and very few would come up with exactly the same team. | | | |
| Oldest team in the league on 15:08 - Nov 15 with 1631 views | jayessess |
| Oldest team in the league on 13:58 - Nov 15 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Those are all fair points but I haven't contested any of them in my context post so I'm still not sure what's WRONG with my context post.
Also, the stat in the OP is about the team not the squad. So (e) is moving the goalposts. |
They're all contesting the idea that the average age stat in the OP significantly over-estimates how old our first team would be in ideal circumstances.
(e) is more about the implications of where you've put the goalposts, really. |  |
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| Oldest team in the league on 15:15 - Nov 15 with 1620 views | bournemouthblue |
| Oldest team in the league on 13:18 - Nov 15 by The_Flashing_Smile |
It certainly is... if you remove all context and nuance.
In what world is 21 now not young?!? I must be close to death if 21's not young. |
Indeed, that's total bobbins. I'm not sure what the logic is there, what age does the young player of the year award cover nowadays?
I agree, 21 is still young by football standards. |  |
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| Oldest team in the league on 15:15 - Nov 15 with 1620 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Oldest team in the league on 14:13 - Nov 15 by BlueBadger |
I'm not the one ignoring the facts here and going 'well actually' to defend a bloke who's constantly picking the ageing and largely ineffective Judge and Sears over Bennets and Dobra. |
Which parts of my context post aren't facts? |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Oldest team in the league on 15:17 - Nov 15 with 1618 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Oldest team in the league on 14:18 - Nov 15 by PJH |
What (or who) is our first choice 11?
If everyone was available, which is not likely to happen, not many people on here would pick the same 11 and I doubt if PL knows what his ideal first choice 11 would be from our current squad. |
There are plenty of fair assumptions we could make, as in my context post above. Are there any you'd disagree with? | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Oldest team in the league on 15:20 - Nov 15 with 1615 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Oldest team in the league on 14:18 - Nov 15 by itfcjoe |
Have you checked the rest of the league to see what their first choice XI is like? We are an older team at this level, and have 4 over 30s likely starting week in week out |
No, I'm not making a point about other teams. I'm saying our team would be a lot younger if not for injuries. I have made a case for younger players who would start, and would have started from the beginning, if fit.
The stats show we are the oldest team but they don't show the full story.
All my examples are there, feel free to disagree with any of them. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Oldest team in the league on 15:23 - Nov 15 with 1609 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Oldest team in the league on 14:48 - Nov 15 by PJH |
I think the only player on that list that would get in everyone's 11, or at least almost everyone's, is Vincent-Young.
A lot of them would get in most peoples team but my original question 'What is our best 11?' would not get universal agreement and very few would come up with exactly the same team. |
"I think the only player on that list that would get in everyone's 11, or at least almost everyone's, is Vincent-Young."
That's just nonsense. Who on earth wouldn't pick Bishop? Who on earth wouldn't pick a full fit Downes? Who on earth wouldn't pick a fully fit Woolfy?.. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Oldest team in the league on 15:25 - Nov 15 with 1607 views | jayessess |
| Oldest team in the league on 15:23 - Nov 15 by The_Flashing_Smile |
"I think the only player on that list that would get in everyone's 11, or at least almost everyone's, is Vincent-Young."
That's just nonsense. Who on earth wouldn't pick Bishop? Who on earth wouldn't pick a full fit Downes? Who on earth wouldn't pick a fully fit Woolfy?.. |
Lambert didn't pick a fully fit Woolfy and Downes for several games when they were available. | |
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| Oldest team in the league on 15:28 - Nov 15 with 1607 views | X0Y0 |
Average age is a rubbish statistic, which doesn’t tell you anything without looking in detail at the distribution. Look at Portsmouth next to Charlton for instance, where Portsmouth have a similar but ‘younger average age’ but haven’t given any minutes to those under 21. | | | |
| Oldest team in the league on 15:29 - Nov 15 with 1601 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Oldest team in the league on 15:08 - Nov 15 by jayessess |
They're all contesting the idea that the average age stat in the OP significantly over-estimates how old our first team would be in ideal circumstances.
(e) is more about the implications of where you've put the goalposts, really. |
How does (e) have anything to do with me? I'm talking about what the first team would be, the OP is talking about what the first teams is, you're the only one bringing in the average age of the squad.
Your post does very little to contest my context one. The players I've listed would start if not injured, so the stat in the OP is woefully misleading. Our high age average is due to injuries, not because the manager chooses oldies.
We probably have the youngest centre back pairing in the entire football league. You seem to have avoided that point. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Oldest team in the league on 15:31 - Nov 15 with 1599 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Oldest team in the league on 15:25 - Nov 15 by jayessess |
Lambert didn't pick a fully fit Woolfy and Downes for several games when they were available. |
Wow, you're really scraping the barrel now. We both know why that is, so why even go there and embarrass yourself? | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Oldest team in the league on 15:38 - Nov 15 with 1590 views | jayessess |
| Oldest team in the league on 15:31 - Nov 15 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Wow, you're really scraping the barrel now. We both know why that is, so why even go there and embarrass yourself? |
Woolfenden missed a couple because of injury and a few more because he wasn't selected.
Downes missed one because apparently his head wasn't right, then several more because he wasn't selected. | |
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| Oldest team in the league on 15:46 - Nov 15 with 1583 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Oldest team in the league on 15:38 - Nov 15 by jayessess |
Woolfenden missed a couple because of injury and a few more because he wasn't selected.
Downes missed one because apparently his head wasn't right, then several more because he wasn't selected. |
Oh you want to play this out? Ok.
Lambert clearly stated if you're playing well you keep the shirt. Woolfy didn't start because of injury and then Toto and Wilson had kept several clean sheets. My point stands that if Woolfy had been fit he would've started the season... and would've stayed.
Downes didn't start because his head wasn't right and then wasn't match fit and others had the shirt and were playing well, so he was introduced only as a sub to get him up to speed. And then got injured. Again my point stands - if not for Palace's bid and injury, Downes would've played every game.
Your move. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Oldest team in the league on 15:46 - Nov 15 with 1581 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Oldest team in the league on 12:53 - Nov 15 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Not really a surprise - as per post above 5 players over 30 have started over half our games and a number of other regulars are in their upper 20’s (Edwards, Nolan, Holy, Nsiala, Hawkins)
Even those that are classed as youngsters aren’t really that young anymore - Bishop is 24. Woolf 22 and Dozzell and Downes 21
I expect there will be people lining up to insist it is in fact a young side though, despite it literally being statistically the oldest in the league [Post edited 15 Nov 2020 13:00]
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Yep, called it |  |
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| Oldest team in the league on 15:47 - Nov 15 with 1578 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Oldest team in the league on 15:15 - Nov 15 by bournemouthblue |
Indeed, that's total bobbins. I'm not sure what the logic is there, what age does the young player of the year award cover nowadays?
I agree, 21 is still young by football standards. |
I said they weren’t ‘that young’ - which 21 isn’t in football standards | |
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| Oldest team in the league on 15:48 - Nov 15 with 1579 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
Yes, because it denies all context.
Instead of trying to win the internet, how about contesting the points made about who would have started if fit?
And your assertion that 21 isn't young is ridiculous. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Oldest team in the league on 15:49 - Nov 15 with 1577 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Oldest team in the league on 15:47 - Nov 15 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
I said they weren’t ‘that young’ - which 21 isn’t in football standards |
LOL | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Oldest team in the league on 15:49 - Nov 15 with 1576 views | jayessess |
| Oldest team in the league on 15:29 - Nov 15 by The_Flashing_Smile |
How does (e) have anything to do with me? I'm talking about what the first team would be, the OP is talking about what the first teams is, you're the only one bringing in the average age of the squad.
Your post does very little to contest my context one. The players I've listed would start if not injured, so the stat in the OP is woefully misleading. Our high age average is due to injuries, not because the manager chooses oldies.
We probably have the youngest centre back pairing in the entire football league. You seem to have avoided that point. |
You're saying it doesn't matter what age our actual first team is because they're all just reserves. I'm saying it also matters how old our reserves are. Obvious really.
Your context one builds up a picture of "our first team" that doesn't reflect the teams that Lambert has actually picked historically. He's shown no inclination to consistently leave Chambers, Nolan, Sears, Judge or Norwood out of the first team. You could make just as strong a case that his preferred first team would be this:
Holy (28)
KVY (24)
Woolfenden (22)
Chambers (35)
Ward (35)
Downes or Dozzell (21)
Bishop (24)
Nolan (28)
Sears (30)
Norwood (30)
Judge (32)
In reality, if everyone was fit, he'd likely be rotating his front 6 around, so sometimes it was younger and sometimes older, but with an end result not dissimilar to what we've got now, because... the squad in general has a lot of old players! | |
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| Oldest team in the league on 15:50 - Nov 15 with 1573 views | jayessess |
| Oldest team in the league on 15:46 - Nov 15 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Oh you want to play this out? Ok.
Lambert clearly stated if you're playing well you keep the shirt. Woolfy didn't start because of injury and then Toto and Wilson had kept several clean sheets. My point stands that if Woolfy had been fit he would've started the season... and would've stayed.
Downes didn't start because his head wasn't right and then wasn't match fit and others had the shirt and were playing well, so he was introduced only as a sub to get him up to speed. And then got injured. Again my point stands - if not for Palace's bid and injury, Downes would've played every game.
Your move. |
So, Lambert chose not to select them when they were available for selection, correct? | |
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| Oldest team in the league on 15:53 - Nov 15 with 1569 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Oldest team in the league on 15:48 - Nov 15 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Yes, because it denies all context.
Instead of trying to win the internet, how about contesting the points made about who would have started if fit?
And your assertion that 21 isn't young is ridiculous. |
Everyone else has already done it, but FWIW:
- Every other team in the league will have had injuries
- We were also towards the top of the same statistic last year
- Thereis no evidence to support that our spine would include Woolf, Bishop, Downes and Dozzell if all fit. That midfield has literally never started a game together
- KVY being fit would actually push the average age up. Same with Norwood in all likelihood
- We’d still have several players over 30 starting in a fully fit squad
- ‘If we’d played different players the average age would be younger’ isn’t an argument
21 clearly isn’t that young in football terms. Indeed of our own players we’ve given a whole 23 league minutes to players in their teens this year - I haven’t checked but I’d wager that’s comfortably the lowest in League One [Post edited 15 Nov 2020 15:55]
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| Oldest team in the league on 16:01 - Nov 15 with 1546 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Oldest team in the league on 15:49 - Nov 15 by jayessess |
You're saying it doesn't matter what age our actual first team is because they're all just reserves. I'm saying it also matters how old our reserves are. Obvious really.
Your context one builds up a picture of "our first team" that doesn't reflect the teams that Lambert has actually picked historically. He's shown no inclination to consistently leave Chambers, Nolan, Sears, Judge or Norwood out of the first team. You could make just as strong a case that his preferred first team would be this:
Holy (28)
KVY (24)
Woolfenden (22)
Chambers (35)
Ward (35)
Downes or Dozzell (21)
Bishop (24)
Nolan (28)
Sears (30)
Norwood (30)
Judge (32)
In reality, if everyone was fit, he'd likely be rotating his front 6 around, so sometimes it was younger and sometimes older, but with an end result not dissimilar to what we've got now, because... the squad in general has a lot of old players! |
But the OP, which we're replying to, isn't about the squad.
"These graphics are intended to give a quick visual overview of the age of players that each club has fielded in league matches."
I have cited several younger players we would have field lots more (and in some cases every game) were it not for injuries.
"You're saying it doesn't matter what age our actual first team is because they're all just reserves."
No I haven't said this. You're lying now to make your point. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Oldest team in the league on 16:03 - Nov 15 with 1540 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Oldest team in the league on 15:50 - Nov 15 by jayessess |
So, Lambert chose not to select them when they were available for selection, correct? |
Are you seriously suggesting Downes and Woolfenden wouldn't have played every game this season even if they'd been fully fit from the start? | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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