| Oldest team in the league 12:32 - Nov 15 with 13470 views | dingus |
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| Oldest team in the league on 17:12 - Nov 16 with 1343 views | jayessess |
| Oldest team in the league on 17:01 - Nov 16 by PhilTWTD |
And more so in the summer which has just gone when we were 'topping up' the squad with frees rather than any more than that. |
Rather a vicious circle. Sign players with no re-sale value, never make a profit on a player, never have any money to invest in fees.
(That said, plenty of other clubs in this division seem to be able to recruit first team ready player under the age of 25) |  |
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| Oldest team in the league on 17:16 - Nov 16 with 1342 views | Herbivore |
| Oldest team in the league on 17:01 - Nov 16 by PhilTWTD |
And more so in the summer which has just gone when we were 'topping up' the squad with frees rather than any more than that. |
Still, in his 2 years here he's signed one player under 26 on a permanent deal. Hardly building for the future. |  |
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| Oldest team in the league on 17:18 - Nov 16 with 1330 views | Herbivore |
| Oldest team in the league on 17:12 - Nov 16 by jayessess |
Rather a vicious circle. Sign players with no re-sale value, never make a profit on a player, never have any money to invest in fees.
(That said, plenty of other clubs in this division seem to be able to recruit first team ready player under the age of 25) |
Mick had more or less no budget and still managed to sign plenty of players with resale value. Yes we were a division higher at the time, but I find it hard to believe that there's nobody out there in our budget that can bolster the squad that's not over 26. As you say, other sides at this level manage to find these kinds of players. | |
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| Oldest team in the league on 17:19 - Nov 16 with 1328 views | PhilTWTD |
| Oldest team in the league on 17:12 - Nov 16 by jayessess |
Rather a vicious circle. Sign players with no re-sale value, never make a profit on a player, never have any money to invest in fees.
(That said, plenty of other clubs in this division seem to be able to recruit first team ready player under the age of 25) |
KVY type signings are more part of the long-term plan than the signings made this summer but I don't think it was any surprise the business was of the type it was given no money was coming in the gate, there were loads of players available on frees and we weren't likely to get anything for the players we were willing to offload. |  | | |
| Oldest team in the league on 17:26 - Nov 16 with 1308 views | jayessess |
| Oldest team in the league on 17:19 - Nov 16 by PhilTWTD |
KVY type signings are more part of the long-term plan than the signings made this summer but I don't think it was any surprise the business was of the type it was given no money was coming in the gate, there were loads of players available on frees and we weren't likely to get anything for the players we were willing to offload. |
Wasn't just this Summer that put this squad together though, was it?
We've made choices over the past few windows to bring in older players. Other clubs, even ones like Lincoln that don't pay out fees, made different choices. | |
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| Oldest team in the league on 17:33 - Nov 16 with 1296 views | TrumptonBlue |
| Oldest team in the league on 15:28 - Nov 16 by itfcjoe |
But actions speak the loudest, and whilst Bishop hasn't been available for a run previously there isn't really the evidence to confirm that he definitely is, opposed to what is there re Nolan where he has basically started every game he's been available for since PL came in |
Not sure about that. Last season, Nolan was in the matchday 18 on 28 occasions. He started 17 games, came on as sub 5 times and was an unused sub 6 times. |  | | |
| Oldest team in the league on 17:43 - Nov 16 with 1284 views | PhilTWTD |
| Oldest team in the league on 17:26 - Nov 16 by jayessess |
Wasn't just this Summer that put this squad together though, was it?
We've made choices over the past few windows to bring in older players. Other clubs, even ones like Lincoln that don't pay out fees, made different choices. |
No, although I suppose we can look at summer 2019 similarly in that the club was in a situation where it was not looking to do a lot of incoming business given the loss of revenue due to relegation. The previous summer we signed a lot of players in their early or mid-twenties, of course. | | | |
| Oldest team in the league on 17:56 - Nov 16 with 1273 views | jayessess |
| Oldest team in the league on 17:43 - Nov 16 by PhilTWTD |
No, although I suppose we can look at summer 2019 similarly in that the club was in a situation where it was not looking to do a lot of incoming business given the loss of revenue due to relegation. The previous summer we signed a lot of players in their early or mid-twenties, of course. |
If 1 permanent signing in 11 over 4 transfer windows fits the criteria, is it fair to say you've abandoned the plan? | |
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| Oldest team in the league on 18:18 - Nov 16 with 1263 views | PhilTWTD |
| Oldest team in the league on 17:56 - Nov 16 by jayessess |
If 1 permanent signing in 11 over 4 transfer windows fits the criteria, is it fair to say you've abandoned the plan? |
On hold would probably be nearer the mark, but I take your point. I've heard nothing to suggest the long-term aim is any different, to bring young players through and augment them with younger signings - including signings such as Ross Crane from non-league - but obviously the last couple of years have been far from typical both for Town and this year football in general. | | | |
| Oldest team in the league on 21:09 - Nov 16 with 1211 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Oldest team in the league on 17:08 - Nov 16 by haynes_toe1 |
I don't disagree that with everyone fit our average age would be lower.
What I think is important to note is it wouldn't have taken us from the oldest to the youngest or nearabouts - and the point being made by others is entirely valid - for everything Lambert says about how young a side he picks and plays, and at times uses that as an excuse - it simply isn't true in comparison to the rest of the division.
Equally, our 'young' players aren't that young. Even big clubs are integrating 17, 18 year olds into their first team. |
This thread isn't about being the youngest. No-one even remotely suggested everyone being fit would take us from the oldest to the youngest or nearabouts.
I'm not really sure what you're arguing about. You seem, after all, to agree with me. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Oldest team in the league on 21:11 - Nov 16 with 1205 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Oldest team in the league on 17:16 - Nov 16 by Herbivore |
Still, in his 2 years here he's signed one player under 26 on a permanent deal. Hardly building for the future. |
Just ignore what me and Phil are telling you and plough on regardless... | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Oldest team in the league on 21:24 - Nov 16 with 1180 views | haynes_toe1 |
| Oldest team in the league on 21:09 - Nov 16 by The_Flashing_Smile |
This thread isn't about being the youngest. No-one even remotely suggested everyone being fit would take us from the oldest to the youngest or nearabouts.
I'm not really sure what you're arguing about. You seem, after all, to agree with me. |
Again I think most people accept that with a fully fit squad that average age may be slightly lower but in terms of the general point on are we playing a young team and significantly developing young players according to our supposed model then the reality is we arent doing any more than any other club in the third tier of English, and perhaps actually less than most. | | | |
| Oldest team in the league on 21:30 - Nov 16 with 1165 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Oldest team in the league on 21:24 - Nov 16 by haynes_toe1 |
Again I think most people accept that with a fully fit squad that average age may be slightly lower but in terms of the general point on are we playing a young team and significantly developing young players according to our supposed model then the reality is we arent doing any more than any other club in the third tier of English, and perhaps actually less than most. |
That's not the point of this thread though. No-one said we're significantly developing young players more than any other club in the third tier of English football.
You're building straw men... | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Oldest team in the league on 21:50 - Nov 16 with 1143 views | J2BLUE |
| Oldest team in the league on 21:24 - Nov 16 by haynes_toe1 |
Again I think most people accept that with a fully fit squad that average age may be slightly lower but in terms of the general point on are we playing a young team and significantly developing young players according to our supposed model then the reality is we arent doing any more than any other club in the third tier of English, and perhaps actually less than most. |
We are in the middle of an unprecedented time for lower league clubs. Most have had to release anyone on a reasonable contract to save costs. It's no surprise that we have a higher average age than most when we can afford experienced players and to retain our higher earners.
I haven't looked at the stats but I assume Sunderland and Portsmouth have older squads as well compared to the average.
Not sure why people are so surprised. If Lambert was playing a team of kids people would be livid we didn't have any experience. Average age is irrelevant. We just need to get out of this division ASAP and we could lower the average age by replacing Ward with Kenlock but no one wants that. |  |
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| Oldest team in the league on 21:56 - Nov 16 with 1128 views | Herbivore |
| Oldest team in the league on 21:50 - Nov 16 by J2BLUE |
We are in the middle of an unprecedented time for lower league clubs. Most have had to release anyone on a reasonable contract to save costs. It's no surprise that we have a higher average age than most when we can afford experienced players and to retain our higher earners.
I haven't looked at the stats but I assume Sunderland and Portsmouth have older squads as well compared to the average.
Not sure why people are so surprised. If Lambert was playing a team of kids people would be livid we didn't have any experience. Average age is irrelevant. We just need to get out of this division ASAP and we could lower the average age by replacing Ward with Kenlock but no one wants that. |
I'd be happy to see us drop Judge for Dobra or Lankester though. Or Sears for either of those two for that matter. I think when the manager is claiming to be rebuilding the club for the long term and he's doing a good job of securing the future of the club you'd kind of be expecting him to be playing our promising young players rather than fielding the oldest team in the league. His rhetoric about us being a "young side" is demonstrably false and always has been. | |
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| Oldest team in the league on 21:56 - Nov 16 with 1128 views | haynes_toe1 |
| Oldest team in the league on 21:30 - Nov 16 by The_Flashing_Smile |
That's not the point of this thread though. No-one said we're significantly developing young players more than any other club in the third tier of English football.
You're building straw men... |
I dont know what the point of the OP was beyond letting us all know about a statistic.
Whether its what your point is or not isnt what I'm arguing about. I'm simply making a general point that Lambert has for the past year or so excused poor games and performances because of how young a side we are and the reality is we really are not. Some have struggled to see that so the OPs stat is just a further reinforcement. | | | |
| Oldest team in the league on 21:58 - Nov 16 with 1125 views | haynes_toe1 |
| Oldest team in the league on 21:50 - Nov 16 by J2BLUE |
We are in the middle of an unprecedented time for lower league clubs. Most have had to release anyone on a reasonable contract to save costs. It's no surprise that we have a higher average age than most when we can afford experienced players and to retain our higher earners.
I haven't looked at the stats but I assume Sunderland and Portsmouth have older squads as well compared to the average.
Not sure why people are so surprised. If Lambert was playing a team of kids people would be livid we didn't have any experience. Average age is irrelevant. We just need to get out of this division ASAP and we could lower the average age by replacing Ward with Kenlock but no one wants that. |
I dont entirely disagree. I was just making the general point that the excuses over the past year from Lambert where he has pretty directly and regularly referred to how young a side we have doesn't wash when you look at the rest of the league. | | | |
| Oldest team in the league on 23:22 - Nov 16 with 1109 views | J2BLUE |
| Oldest team in the league on 21:58 - Nov 16 by haynes_toe1 |
I dont entirely disagree. I was just making the general point that the excuses over the past year from Lambert where he has pretty directly and regularly referred to how young a side we have doesn't wash when you look at the rest of the league. |
Completely agree with that. | |
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| Oldest team in the league on 00:09 - Nov 17 with 1096 views | dingus |
| Oldest team in the league on 21:56 - Nov 16 by haynes_toe1 |
I dont know what the point of the OP was beyond letting us all know about a statistic.
Whether its what your point is or not isnt what I'm arguing about. I'm simply making a general point that Lambert has for the past year or so excused poor games and performances because of how young a side we are and the reality is we really are not. Some have struggled to see that so the OPs stat is just a further reinforcement. |
Not sure I really had a point. Just thought people might find it interesting, wasn't expecting a 7 pager!
Peterborough stand out to me, load the team with 24-25 year olds, if a few really kick on then they can make a lot of money on those. We've got most minutes for players around 28, where they should really be at thier prime but with less potential for improvement and so lower potential fees. Not saying Posh have it right, they certainly make money but have been stuck in league 1 for a while. | | | |
| Oldest team in the league on 08:08 - Nov 17 with 1040 views | Herbivore |
| Oldest team in the league on 00:09 - Nov 17 by dingus |
Not sure I really had a point. Just thought people might find it interesting, wasn't expecting a 7 pager!
Peterborough stand out to me, load the team with 24-25 year olds, if a few really kick on then they can make a lot of money on those. We've got most minutes for players around 28, where they should really be at thier prime but with less potential for improvement and so lower potential fees. Not saying Posh have it right, they certainly make money but have been stuck in league 1 for a while. |
Lambert's signings have helped bolster that late 20s/early 30s demographic in the sqaud and it's hard to se how we end up making any money on any of them, KVY aside, if he ever gets fit. Here's the permanent signings made by Lambert and their current age:
Judge - 32
Norwood - 30
Holy - 28
Wilson - 31
KVY - 24
Hawkins - 28
Cornell - 29
Ward - 35
So the average age of players Lambert has signed for the first team squad is 29.6. I know some will claim all sorts of mitigation, that it is impossible to sign players younger than those we signed with no budget (even though other sides at this level do it all the time) but it doesn't really smack of someone who is putting the building blocks in place for the future in how they are putting a squad together. And it's not like they've all been resounding short term successes either. [Post edited 17 Nov 2020 8:37]
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| Oldest team in the league on 08:36 - Nov 17 with 1024 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Oldest team in the league on 21:56 - Nov 16 by haynes_toe1 |
I dont know what the point of the OP was beyond letting us all know about a statistic.
Whether its what your point is or not isnt what I'm arguing about. I'm simply making a general point that Lambert has for the past year or so excused poor games and performances because of how young a side we are and the reality is we really are not. Some have struggled to see that so the OPs stat is just a further reinforcement. |
He's only excused poor games on youth when we have put out a young side.
I've explained why the OP is misleading and not all that relevant. I see despite several people explaining it, including Phil, that Herbs is still banging on with 'we're the oldest team in the league.' Unbelievable.
It's just sticks to beat Lambert with, when the reality is we wouldn't be the oldest side if all our players were fit and able to play, none of which is Lambert's fault. It also isn't Lambert's fault that he can't buy promising starlets to go straight into the team. All this has been explained above.
I'd like to see more of Dobra but apart from that I'm not sure who's missing out, youngster-wise, who should definitely be playing. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Oldest team in the league on 08:39 - Nov 17 with 1017 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Oldest team in the league on 21:56 - Nov 16 by Herbivore |
I'd be happy to see us drop Judge for Dobra or Lankester though. Or Sears for either of those two for that matter. I think when the manager is claiming to be rebuilding the club for the long term and he's doing a good job of securing the future of the club you'd kind of be expecting him to be playing our promising young players rather than fielding the oldest team in the league. His rhetoric about us being a "young side" is demonstrably false and always has been. |
Lankaster has been eased back in due to a long term injury.
So is it only the lack of gametime for Dobra you're actually bemoaning? | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Oldest team in the league on 08:42 - Nov 17 with 1013 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Oldest team in the league on 08:36 - Nov 17 by The_Flashing_Smile |
He's only excused poor games on youth when we have put out a young side.
I've explained why the OP is misleading and not all that relevant. I see despite several people explaining it, including Phil, that Herbs is still banging on with 'we're the oldest team in the league.' Unbelievable.
It's just sticks to beat Lambert with, when the reality is we wouldn't be the oldest side if all our players were fit and able to play, none of which is Lambert's fault. It also isn't Lambert's fault that he can't buy promising starlets to go straight into the team. All this has been explained above.
I'd like to see more of Dobra but apart from that I'm not sure who's missing out, youngster-wise, who should definitely be playing. |
LOL, once again Herbs, I thought you had me on ignore? Just can't resist can you?
I even have Phil in my corner and you're still not getting it. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Oldest team in the league on 08:46 - Nov 17 with 1006 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Oldest team in the league on 08:08 - Nov 17 by Herbivore |
Lambert's signings have helped bolster that late 20s/early 30s demographic in the sqaud and it's hard to se how we end up making any money on any of them, KVY aside, if he ever gets fit. Here's the permanent signings made by Lambert and their current age:
Judge - 32
Norwood - 30
Holy - 28
Wilson - 31
KVY - 24
Hawkins - 28
Cornell - 29
Ward - 35
So the average age of players Lambert has signed for the first team squad is 29.6. I know some will claim all sorts of mitigation, that it is impossible to sign players younger than those we signed with no budget (even though other sides at this level do it all the time) but it doesn't really smack of someone who is putting the building blocks in place for the future in how they are putting a squad together. And it's not like they've all been resounding short term successes either. [Post edited 17 Nov 2020 8:37]
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Which are the quality young players who have been signed by other teams in this league and would walk straight into our first team?
As has been explained to you a few times, we spent £0.5m on KVY. That's what young quality costs at this level. We don't have anymore money for signings like that. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Oldest team in the league on 08:51 - Nov 17 with 1001 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Oldest team in the league on 08:42 - Nov 17 by The_Flashing_Smile |
LOL, once again Herbs, I thought you had me on ignore? Just can't resist can you?
I even have Phil in my corner and you're still not getting it. |
You're making yourself look like a crybaby Herbs - claiming to put me on ignore, not saying anything, but then downarrowing everything I post (whilst not doing the same to Phil who's made the same points).
Calm yourself down and try debating the points like an adult. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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