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Oldest team in the league 12:32 - Nov 15 with 13359 viewsdingus

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Oldest team in the league on 16:06 - Nov 15 with 757 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

Oldest team in the league on 15:53 - Nov 15 by C_HealyIsAPleasure

Everyone else has already done it, but FWIW:

- Every other team in the league will have had injuries
- We were also towards the top of the same statistic last year
- Thereis no evidence to support that our spine would include Woolf, Bishop, Downes and Dozzell if all fit. That midfield has literally never started a game together
- KVY being fit would actually push the average age up. Same with Norwood in all likelihood
- We’d still have several players over 30 starting in a fully fit squad
- ‘If we’d played different players the average age would be younger’ isn’t an argument

21 clearly isn’t that young in football terms. Indeed of our own players we’ve given a whole 23 league minutes to players in their teens this year - I haven’t checked but I’d wager that’s comfortably the lowest in League One
[Post edited 15 Nov 2020 15:55]


Nothing but reams of nonsense. Your 3rd point sums it up. You're seriously suggesting a fully fit Woolf, Bishop, Downes and Dozzell wouldn't start.

I'm done here.

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

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Oldest team in the league on 16:24 - Nov 15 with 730 viewsjudespiveyg

Oldest team in the league on 16:06 - Nov 15 by The_Flashing_Smile

Nothing but reams of nonsense. Your 3rd point sums it up. You're seriously suggesting a fully fit Woolf, Bishop, Downes and Dozzell wouldn't start.

I'm done here.


It's very hard to argue that those four wouldn't be the spine of our team if they were all fit. 'NoT a sHrEd oF eViDeNcE' straight up ignores the fact that Downes and Wolfy were our best players by a distance last year and Dozzell and Bishop have easily been our best players this year.

I don't like a lot of Lambert's team selections (Judge, Huws and maybe Nolan get far too much gametime, mucks about with keepers too much) but I don't think he'd rest the team's best four players.

Also struggling to see how replacing 35 year old Chambers with 24 year old KVY pushes the average age up, unless Lambert decides to play Chambers at centre half instead of Wolf and Mcguiness, both of whom have been playing really well.
[Post edited 15 Nov 2020 16:27]

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Oldest team in the league on 16:31 - Nov 15 with 719 viewsHerbivore

Oldest team in the league on 12:41 - Nov 15 by judespiveyg

In fairness though the spine of the team (Wolf, Dozzell, Bishop, Downes when fit) are young, while it's true we have old players (Ward and Chambers) in the side, it's arguably in the least important positions, I'm fairly sure Ward and skip are the only two regular starters over 30, particularly now Wilson and Norwood are reserves. This is no dad's army of Paul Jewell's era.


Sears and Judge are both 30+ and start almost every game under Lambert when fit. Norwood is probably our first choice central striker when fit and he's also over 30. It's odd to see people trying to spin this, it's been obvious under Lambert that his rhetoric about us being a young side doesn't stack up to reality. It is true that Woolfie and Downes have been injured for most of this season, but us being a comparatively old side isn't new. Last season we were amongst the oldest sides and we gave fewer minutes to players under 23 than all but a handful of sides. That's really poor for a manager whose only argument for still being in the job is that he's undertaking a long term rebuild and putting us in a good place for the future.

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Oldest team in the league on 16:35 - Nov 15 with 711 viewsHerbivore

Oldest team in the league on 14:40 - Nov 15 by judespiveyg

Paul Lambert probably would find a way to get Judge in here somehow but I really can't see a better lineup for us than
Holy
Vincent-Young
Wolf
Mcguiness
Ward
Downes
Dozzell
Bishop
Lankester
Hawkins
Edwards

Maybe Chambers at centre half, but that has just the one player over 30 (Ward). Problem is this requires Downes and KVY to be fit.
[Post edited 15 Nov 2020 14:41]


That might be your preferred XI but there's no way Lambert is playing that side. You need to add in Chambers, Norwood, and at least one of Sears and Judge, possibly both. I'd expect him to fit Nolan in for either Bishop or Dozzell in that midfield as well.

You can't argue that because we could select a good XI with young players when everyone is fit that it somehow shows we are actually a young side. The reality is that Lambert consistently picks older players even when other options are available. That's been the case over his 2 years here and there's no reason to think he's going to change that and drop some of his favourites to accommodate more youngsters. That's not his style.

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Oldest team in the league on 16:42 - Nov 15 with 694 viewsHerbivore

Oldest team in the league on 16:24 - Nov 15 by judespiveyg

It's very hard to argue that those four wouldn't be the spine of our team if they were all fit. 'NoT a sHrEd oF eViDeNcE' straight up ignores the fact that Downes and Wolfy were our best players by a distance last year and Dozzell and Bishop have easily been our best players this year.

I don't like a lot of Lambert's team selections (Judge, Huws and maybe Nolan get far too much gametime, mucks about with keepers too much) but I don't think he'd rest the team's best four players.

Also struggling to see how replacing 35 year old Chambers with 24 year old KVY pushes the average age up, unless Lambert decides to play Chambers at centre half instead of Wolf and Mcguiness, both of whom have been playing really well.
[Post edited 15 Nov 2020 16:27]


He would very obviously play Chambers at centre back if KVY was fit, which means replacing a 19 year old loanee with the 24 year old KVY. That's how it pushes the average age up.

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Oldest team in the league on 16:43 - Nov 15 with 685 viewsjayessess

Oldest team in the league on 16:01 - Nov 15 by The_Flashing_Smile

But the OP, which we're replying to, isn't about the squad.

"These graphics are intended to give a quick visual overview of the age of players that each club has fielded in league matches."

I have cited several younger players we would have field lots more (and in some cases every game) were it not for injuries.

"You're saying it doesn't matter what age our actual first team is because they're all just reserves."
No I haven't said this. You're lying now to make your point.


No one is lying here. I understood you to be arguing that the high average age of our team was of no concern because without injuries it would be lower. If that's wrong, feel free to clarify.

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Oldest team in the league on 16:44 - Nov 15 with 683 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

Oldest team in the league on 16:31 - Nov 15 by Herbivore

Sears and Judge are both 30+ and start almost every game under Lambert when fit. Norwood is probably our first choice central striker when fit and he's also over 30. It's odd to see people trying to spin this, it's been obvious under Lambert that his rhetoric about us being a young side doesn't stack up to reality. It is true that Woolfie and Downes have been injured for most of this season, but us being a comparatively old side isn't new. Last season we were amongst the oldest sides and we gave fewer minutes to players under 23 than all but a handful of sides. That's really poor for a manager whose only argument for still being in the job is that he's undertaking a long term rebuild and putting us in a good place for the future.


It's you who is doing the spinning by removing context.

Last season isn't the discussion, it's this season.

The fact that you cite Norwood as over 30 sums it up. He turned 30 two months ago! Yes, of course, technically that makes him over 30. But it's this desperation to make us look like an ageing team which just gets exposed again and again. When fully fit our team has a sprinkling of experienced players, as it should do, but also many younger ones. It isn't particularly old overall.

This is all because it's Paul Lambert's team and some of you want another stick. If it were a Mick McCarthy team no-one would say a thing. If anything they'd say it has a decent balance of youth and experience.

In fact people, if they wanted, could argue the case that our centre back partnership is TOO young.

You can prove anything with stats. But it's context and nuance that matters.

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

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Oldest team in the league on 16:45 - Nov 15 with 682 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

Oldest team in the league on 16:06 - Nov 15 by The_Flashing_Smile

Nothing but reams of nonsense. Your 3rd point sums it up. You're seriously suggesting a fully fit Woolf, Bishop, Downes and Dozzell wouldn't start.

I'm done here.


LOL, I thought you had me on ignore Herbs?

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

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Oldest team in the league on 16:46 - Nov 15 with 679 viewsjayessess

Oldest team in the league on 16:24 - Nov 15 by judespiveyg

It's very hard to argue that those four wouldn't be the spine of our team if they were all fit. 'NoT a sHrEd oF eViDeNcE' straight up ignores the fact that Downes and Wolfy were our best players by a distance last year and Dozzell and Bishop have easily been our best players this year.

I don't like a lot of Lambert's team selections (Judge, Huws and maybe Nolan get far too much gametime, mucks about with keepers too much) but I don't think he'd rest the team's best four players.

Also struggling to see how replacing 35 year old Chambers with 24 year old KVY pushes the average age up, unless Lambert decides to play Chambers at centre half instead of Wolf and Mcguiness, both of whom have been playing really well.
[Post edited 15 Nov 2020 16:27]


To my knowledge, we've never started that midfield in a league match.
Chambers is club captain and an ever present under Lambert. It's hardly far fetched to imagine that if he weren't playing right back he'd be playing centre half.

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Oldest team in the league on 16:47 - Nov 15 with 681 viewsHerbivore

It'd be interesting to look at the average age of the players Lambert has added to the sqaud during his tenure here. In terms of permanent signings we're looking at Judge, Norwood, Wilson, Holy, Ward, KVY, Hawkins, and Cornell I think. Not sure if I've missed any? Aside from KVY they are all in their late 20s or 30s, not really signings with much potential for development, so little scope for improvement or resale. KVY looks the outlier in that bunch really.

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Oldest team in the league on 16:47 - Nov 15 with 675 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

Oldest team in the league on 16:35 - Nov 15 by Herbivore

That might be your preferred XI but there's no way Lambert is playing that side. You need to add in Chambers, Norwood, and at least one of Sears and Judge, possibly both. I'd expect him to fit Nolan in for either Bishop or Dozzell in that midfield as well.

You can't argue that because we could select a good XI with young players when everyone is fit that it somehow shows we are actually a young side. The reality is that Lambert consistently picks older players even when other options are available. That's been the case over his 2 years here and there's no reason to think he's going to change that and drop some of his favourites to accommodate more youngsters. That's not his style.


There's no way Lambert's picking a fit Nolan instead of a fit Bishop or Dozzell. Nonsense.

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

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Oldest team in the league on 16:49 - Nov 15 with 667 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

Oldest team in the league on 16:43 - Nov 15 by jayessess

No one is lying here. I understood you to be arguing that the high average age of our team was of no concern because without injuries it would be lower. If that's wrong, feel free to clarify.


It is what I'm arguing. But you said, and I quote "You're saying it doesn't matter what age our actual first team is because they're all just reserves."
[Post edited 15 Nov 2020 16:59]

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Oldest team in the league on 16:50 - Nov 15 with 665 viewsHerbivore

Oldest team in the league on 16:45 - Nov 15 by The_Flashing_Smile

LOL, I thought you had me on ignore Herbs?


I did, but since when you're on here around 30% of the posts on TWTD are you arguing with people it makes the board harder to follow when those posts are missing.

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Oldest team in the league on 16:51 - Nov 15 with 663 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

Oldest team in the league on 16:46 - Nov 15 by jayessess

To my knowledge, we've never started that midfield in a league match.
Chambers is club captain and an ever present under Lambert. It's hardly far fetched to imagine that if he weren't playing right back he'd be playing centre half.


Because one or more have always been injured or unavailable.

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

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Oldest team in the league on 16:53 - Nov 15 with 658 viewsHerbivore

Oldest team in the league on 16:44 - Nov 15 by The_Flashing_Smile

It's you who is doing the spinning by removing context.

Last season isn't the discussion, it's this season.

The fact that you cite Norwood as over 30 sums it up. He turned 30 two months ago! Yes, of course, technically that makes him over 30. But it's this desperation to make us look like an ageing team which just gets exposed again and again. When fully fit our team has a sprinkling of experienced players, as it should do, but also many younger ones. It isn't particularly old overall.

This is all because it's Paul Lambert's team and some of you want another stick. If it were a Mick McCarthy team no-one would say a thing. If anything they'd say it has a decent balance of youth and experience.

In fact people, if they wanted, could argue the case that our centre back partnership is TOO young.

You can prove anything with stats. But it's context and nuance that matters.


So just to be clear a player's actual age isn't appropriate context and Lambert having a history of picking comparatively old sides isn't appropriate context but everything you choose to introduce is? I just want to make sure I'm getting this right, and we know that you get to make the rules on what can and what can't be offered in a debate.

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Oldest team in the league on 16:53 - Nov 15 with 657 viewsjayessess

Oldest team in the league on 16:51 - Nov 15 by The_Flashing_Smile

Because one or more have always been injured or unavailable.


There were multiple occasions this season and last when all 3 were available.

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Oldest team in the league on 16:55 - Nov 15 with 653 viewsjayessess

Oldest team in the league on 16:49 - Nov 15 by The_Flashing_Smile

It is what I'm arguing. But you said, and I quote "You're saying it doesn't matter what age our actual first team is because they're all just reserves."
[Post edited 15 Nov 2020 16:59]


"You're saying it doesn't matter what age our actual first team is [b[because they're all just reserves."

"the high average age of our team was of no concern because without injuries it would be lower."

These sentences mean the same thing.

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Oldest team in the league on 16:55 - Nov 15 with 653 viewsJ2BLUE

Oldest team in the league on 16:51 - Nov 15 by The_Flashing_Smile

Because one or more have always been injured or unavailable.


Does anyone really care about this? The signing of Ward was met with positivity. Would anyone drop him for Kenlock?

It seems this is more about Judge being ineffective than the average age of the team.

Sorry Dolly, not suggesting you've disagreed with any of the above.

Truly impaired.
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Oldest team in the league on 16:55 - Nov 15 with 652 viewsdingus

Oldest team in the league on 13:53 - Nov 15 by The_Flashing_Smile

I agree the smaller teams are forced to use teenagers.

I disagree on Skuse coming back, unless we have a horrendous amount of injuries/suspensions in central midfield. He's nowhere near our first choice 11 now.


If everyone was fully fit he struggles to get on the bench, but if he was fully fit at the moment I'd imagine Lambert would have him very near the first team possibly ahead of McGavin, at least on the bench though.
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Oldest team in the league on 16:58 - Nov 15 with 651 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

Oldest team in the league on 16:47 - Nov 15 by Herbivore

It'd be interesting to look at the average age of the players Lambert has added to the sqaud during his tenure here. In terms of permanent signings we're looking at Judge, Norwood, Wilson, Holy, Ward, KVY, Hawkins, and Cornell I think. Not sure if I've missed any? Aside from KVY they are all in their late 20s or 30s, not really signings with much potential for development, so little scope for improvement or resale. KVY looks the outlier in that bunch really.


You see your argument's failing so you think, how can I twist it another way?

It's not about what he's signed. It's about starting players. Clearly both of Hawkins and Norwood won't be playing. Same with Holy and Cornell. Wilson wouldn't be starting with other centre halves being fit. And you've avoided mentioning loan signings because they don't fit your narrative.

Why would he sign loads of permanent youngsters anyway? We have loads already! If he had done you'd bemoaning him blocking our own youngsters!

And we don't have the funds to buy several promising youngsters. KVY was half a million. How many of those type signings would ME sanction?

Basically, attack whatever Lambert does. Rinse and repeat.

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

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Potatoes. (n/t) on 16:58 - Nov 15 with 648 viewsBloots

Oldest team in the league on 16:06 - Nov 15 by The_Flashing_Smile

Nothing but reams of nonsense. Your 3rd point sums it up. You're seriously suggesting a fully fit Woolf, Bishop, Downes and Dozzell wouldn't start.

I'm done here.



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He's a crap football manager..... on 16:59 - Nov 15 with 649 viewsBloots

Oldest team in the league on 16:58 - Nov 15 by The_Flashing_Smile

You see your argument's failing so you think, how can I twist it another way?

It's not about what he's signed. It's about starting players. Clearly both of Hawkins and Norwood won't be playing. Same with Holy and Cornell. Wilson wouldn't be starting with other centre halves being fit. And you've avoided mentioning loan signings because they don't fit your narrative.

Why would he sign loads of permanent youngsters anyway? We have loads already! If he had done you'd bemoaning him blocking our own youngsters!

And we don't have the funds to buy several promising youngsters. KVY was half a million. How many of those type signings would ME sanction?

Basically, attack whatever Lambert does. Rinse and repeat.


....Lambert out.

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Oldest team in the league on 17:00 - Nov 15 with 641 viewsHerbivore

Oldest team in the league on 16:47 - Nov 15 by The_Flashing_Smile

There's no way Lambert's picking a fit Nolan instead of a fit Bishop or Dozzell. Nonsense.


Why do you feel the need to describe valid opinions as "nonsense" whenever they don't cohere with yours? Given that Lambert has never started the three players you mention together and has generally found a place for Nolan when fit, I don't see any basis for your labelling my post as "nonsense". I think you should apologise to be honest.

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Oldest team in the league on 17:01 - Nov 15 with 634 viewsjayessess

Oldest team in the league on 17:00 - Nov 15 by Herbivore

Why do you feel the need to describe valid opinions as "nonsense" whenever they don't cohere with yours? Given that Lambert has never started the three players you mention together and has generally found a place for Nolan when fit, I don't see any basis for your labelling my post as "nonsense". I think you should apologise to be honest.


The hypothetical Lambert in his head sounds like a lot better manager than real life Lambert, maybe we need to find a way to make him manifest.

Blog: What Now? Taking a Look at Life in League One

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Oldest team in the league on 17:02 - Nov 15 with 632 viewsThe_Flashing_Smile

Oldest team in the league on 16:55 - Nov 15 by jayessess

"You're saying it doesn't matter what age our actual first team is [b[because they're all just reserves."

"the high average age of our team was of no concern because without injuries it would be lower."

These sentences mean the same thing.


Haha. I'll leave it there if you think that. There is nowhere that I've said our first team is all just reserves, which is what you said I said. The two sentences aren't the same, no.

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

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