| Oldest team in the league 12:32 - Nov 15 with 13466 views | dingus |
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| Oldest team in the league on 15:14 - Nov 16 with 987 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Oldest team in the league on 15:13 - Nov 16 by PhilTWTD |
Perhaps worth pointing out that but the for the Downes-Palace situation Nolan wouldn't have started the season and probably - although it's impossible to say for definite obviously - wouldn't have become a regular in the manner he has. |
Cheers Phil. At least someone on here sees what I'm getting at. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| When you came back after your...... on 15:15 - Nov 16 with 987 views | J2BLUE |
| When you came back after your...... on 15:12 - Nov 16 by The_Flashing_Smile |
That's honestly how I read it. Were you not annoyed I slagged off something that's close to your heart? Apologies if I got that wrong but you didn't seem happy and was telling me how ignorant I was about its benefits (when all I'd said up to that point was it's not one of your 5 a day, which is true). |
Not at all. I just politely (IMO) said that rather than go by some government advisory panel who say potatoes don't count because they are usually the starch part of a meal, that you look at the nutrition in them and decide for yourself which seemed to upset you.
I have no bizarre loyalty to the potato or any desire to take offence if other people don't like them. |  |
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| Oldest team in the league on 15:19 - Nov 16 with 985 views | PhilTWTD |
| Oldest team in the league on 18:01 - Nov 15 by Herbivore |
Lambert's actual selections and actions aren't allowable as evidence in this debate unfortunately, you're only allowed to talk about what he would obviously hypothetically do or not do. |
Not sure that's entirely an unfair position to take. But for the Palace situation and then injury Downes would have started most games and Vincent-Young would have started most games, same with Woolfy after he picked up his knock. Arguably our three best players starting most games would have made a difference to our average age.
Equally, there was a stat last season which showed we gave the fewest minutes in the division to players aged under 19. |  | | |
| When you came back after your...... on 15:20 - Nov 16 with 981 views | footers |
| When you came back after your...... on 15:15 - Nov 16 by J2BLUE |
Not at all. I just politely (IMO) said that rather than go by some government advisory panel who say potatoes don't count because they are usually the starch part of a meal, that you look at the nutrition in them and decide for yourself which seemed to upset you.
I have no bizarre loyalty to the potato or any desire to take offence if other people don't like them. |
There are few things in life really deserving of anyone's complete loyalty, but the potato is one. |  |
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| Oldest team in the league on 15:21 - Nov 16 with 976 views | PhilTWTD |
| Oldest team in the league on 15:14 - Nov 16 by itfcjoe |
It could quite easily have been the case that Nolan started every game and Bishop was on the bench though, PL clearly a massive Nolan fan |
True, but from what I was told at the time the midfield which was initially down to start against Bristol Rovers was the one which played against West Ham. Nolan made an impressive start and kept his place as a result and Downes got injured, so we are where we are. | | | |
| Oldest team in the league on 15:21 - Nov 16 with 977 views | PassionNotAnger |
Blimey - you really are hard work
I reckon you would start (and still probably lose) and argument in an empty room whilst stood in front of a mirror. | | | |
| Oldest team in the league on 15:23 - Nov 16 with 973 views | footers |
| Oldest team in the league on 15:21 - Nov 16 by PassionNotAnger |
Blimey - you really are hard work
I reckon you would start (and still probably lose) and argument in an empty room whilst stood in front of a mirror. |
Practice makes perfect. [Post edited 16 Nov 2020 15:28]
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| Oldest team in the league on 15:23 - Nov 16 with 970 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Oldest team in the league on 15:14 - Nov 16 by itfcjoe |
It could quite easily have been the case that Nolan started every game and Bishop was on the bench though, PL clearly a massive Nolan fan |
He's clearly a massive Bishop fan as well. He pretty much said as much the other day. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| When you came back after your...... on 15:26 - Nov 16 with 956 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| When you came back after your...... on 15:15 - Nov 16 by J2BLUE |
Not at all. I just politely (IMO) said that rather than go by some government advisory panel who say potatoes don't count because they are usually the starch part of a meal, that you look at the nutrition in them and decide for yourself which seemed to upset you.
I have no bizarre loyalty to the potato or any desire to take offence if other people don't like them. |
Fair enough, that's just how it came across to me. I thought you thought I was dissing your diet from a place of ignorance and it had got your back up. It didn't come across politely to me, it came across like I'd touched a nerve. I was a bit taken aback to be honest, because I didn't think I'd said anything that controversial. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Oldest team in the league on 15:28 - Nov 16 with 945 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Oldest team in the league on 15:19 - Nov 16 by PhilTWTD |
Not sure that's entirely an unfair position to take. But for the Palace situation and then injury Downes would have started most games and Vincent-Young would have started most games, same with Woolfy after he picked up his knock. Arguably our three best players starting most games would have made a difference to our average age.
Equally, there was a stat last season which showed we gave the fewest minutes in the division to players aged under 19. |
Indeed, which is all my position was and I've got pelters left right and centre for it! | |
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| Oldest team in the league on 15:28 - Nov 16 with 943 views | itfcjoe |
| Oldest team in the league on 15:23 - Nov 16 by The_Flashing_Smile |
He's clearly a massive Bishop fan as well. He pretty much said as much the other day. |
But actions speak the loudest, and whilst Bishop hasn't been available for a run previously there isn't really the evidence to confirm that he definitely is, opposed to what is there re Nolan where he has basically started every game he's been available for since PL came in |  |
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| When you came back after your...... on 15:30 - Nov 16 with 936 views | J2BLUE |
| When you came back after your...... on 15:26 - Nov 16 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Fair enough, that's just how it came across to me. I thought you thought I was dissing your diet from a place of ignorance and it had got your back up. It didn't come across politely to me, it came across like I'd touched a nerve. I was a bit taken aback to be honest, because I didn't think I'd said anything that controversial. |
Well in that case I can only apologise as that wasn't the intention.
Obviously like a lot of things they can be messed up. Once they are peeled, chipped and fried they are clearly not healthy. They can be extremely healthy though if cooked without oil or in a little good oil. Although i'm sure you know that without me telling you. | |
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| Oldest team in the league on 15:38 - Nov 16 with 913 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Oldest team in the league on 15:28 - Nov 16 by itfcjoe |
But actions speak the loudest, and whilst Bishop hasn't been available for a run previously there isn't really the evidence to confirm that he definitely is, opposed to what is there re Nolan where he has basically started every game he's been available for since PL came in |
As I said above, Bishop's had a horrendous injury record. I think Lambert rested him for Nolan for one game because he's aware of that and doesn't want to risk Bishop going from barely completing 90 mins to playing every game in a hectic Sat-Tues schedule.
But Bishop has played a lot of minutes this season and Lambert does seem to see him as a key player (both from playing him AND by what he says).
I'd agree with you that Lambert does seem to have more faith in Nolan than many of us. And indeed, he did start off well (I've been one of his biggest critics but even I have to admit that). Unfortunately he seems to have slipped back to his old sideways-passing ways. If he had a bit more confidence and was less risk averse he could be a decent player at this level.
We've gone off topic slightly though, it was about who has started this season. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| When you came back after your...... on 15:43 - Nov 16 with 904 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| When you came back after your...... on 15:30 - Nov 16 by J2BLUE |
Well in that case I can only apologise as that wasn't the intention.
Obviously like a lot of things they can be messed up. Once they are peeled, chipped and fried they are clearly not healthy. They can be extremely healthy though if cooked without oil or in a little good oil. Although i'm sure you know that without me telling you. |
Yep, and apologies from myself as I'm sure I'm partly to blame for the misunderstanding.
What would you call "good oil"? I like to fry in walnut oil (as walnut is good for the brain) but the missus insists on olive oil (extra virgin and/or regular) so I haven't used much walnut since we moved in together. I think hers is more out of habit than anything. | |
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| Oldest team in the league on 15:47 - Nov 16 with 897 views | Herbivore |
| Oldest team in the league on 15:19 - Nov 16 by PhilTWTD |
Not sure that's entirely an unfair position to take. But for the Palace situation and then injury Downes would have started most games and Vincent-Young would have started most games, same with Woolfy after he picked up his knock. Arguably our three best players starting most games would have made a difference to our average age.
Equally, there was a stat last season which showed we gave the fewest minutes in the division to players aged under 19. |
But by the same token, KVY being in means Chambers just shifts to the middle so doesn't do much for average age. Downes comes in but probably for Bishop, so only a small impact on average age. Then you can make the case that if Norwood is fit he plays and that brings the avaerage age up by a similar amount. Then there's the likes of Judge and Sears playing regularly, often ahead of our younger talents. And as you rightly say, it's not only this season where we've tended towards older players.
I think the point is that taken in the round there is scant evidence that PL is much of one for blooding youth. He talks a good game (surprise, surprise) when it comes to being brave and playing youngsters but the reality hasn't really stacked up to that. I mentioned his signings too, not one of them has been a youngster. Only KVY is under the age of 26 of all the permanent signings that Lambert had made. It just doesn't smack of a manager building for the future with a long term project in mind, does it? I know that's the party line but I'm not buying it. |  |
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| When you came back after your...... on 15:48 - Nov 16 with 895 views | J2BLUE |
| When you came back after your...... on 15:43 - Nov 16 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Yep, and apologies from myself as I'm sure I'm partly to blame for the misunderstanding.
What would you call "good oil"? I like to fry in walnut oil (as walnut is good for the brain) but the missus insists on olive oil (extra virgin and/or regular) so I haven't used much walnut since we moved in together. I think hers is more out of habit than anything. |
Walnut, macadamia, avocado, olive, coconut (for frying). I also went through a phase of buying hemp oil which was decent. I'm sure there are many good ones i've forgotten. | |
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| When you came back after your...... on 15:49 - Nov 16 with 891 views | footers |
| When you came back after your...... on 15:48 - Nov 16 by J2BLUE |
Walnut, macadamia, avocado, olive, coconut (for frying). I also went through a phase of buying hemp oil which was decent. I'm sure there are many good ones i've forgotten. |
Castrol GTX. | |
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| Oldest team in the league on 15:59 - Nov 16 with 869 views | PhilTWTD |
| Oldest team in the league on 15:47 - Nov 16 by Herbivore |
But by the same token, KVY being in means Chambers just shifts to the middle so doesn't do much for average age. Downes comes in but probably for Bishop, so only a small impact on average age. Then you can make the case that if Norwood is fit he plays and that brings the avaerage age up by a similar amount. Then there's the likes of Judge and Sears playing regularly, often ahead of our younger talents. And as you rightly say, it's not only this season where we've tended towards older players.
I think the point is that taken in the round there is scant evidence that PL is much of one for blooding youth. He talks a good game (surprise, surprise) when it comes to being brave and playing youngsters but the reality hasn't really stacked up to that. I mentioned his signings too, not one of them has been a youngster. Only KVY is under the age of 26 of all the permanent signings that Lambert had made. It just doesn't smack of a manager building for the future with a long term project in mind, does it? I know that's the party line but I'm not buying it. |
Would have been interesting to see who Lambert would have started at the beginning of the season had everyone been fit. I'm thinking Chambo and Woolfy in the centre of the defence - although I can make arguments for PL leaving both of them out - Ward on the left and Vincent-Young on the right.
As I say, I'm sure it would have been Dozzell, Downes and Bishop, perhaps in part as Nolan hadn't had much pre-season as he'd had a knock.
Perhaps re Norwood in the middle up front, but Drinan got the nod at the start of the season and, of course, he probably did enough to keep his place had he not got injured.
Bearing in mind dropping the average age by a year or so sees us slip into the pack probably not too much ought to be read into topping that chart, particularly as we have two 35-year-olds who skew things a little.
Of course, there are also factors such as it being more difficult for us to offload our players at the moment given the overall financial position at this level and our players largely having been brought in to play at a higher level and among the better paid League One players. I think that has contributed to us having a larger squad of senior players and makes it tougher for young players to get their chance. | | | |
| Oldest team in the league on 16:10 - Nov 16 with 854 views | Herbivore |
| Oldest team in the league on 15:59 - Nov 16 by PhilTWTD |
Would have been interesting to see who Lambert would have started at the beginning of the season had everyone been fit. I'm thinking Chambo and Woolfy in the centre of the defence - although I can make arguments for PL leaving both of them out - Ward on the left and Vincent-Young on the right.
As I say, I'm sure it would have been Dozzell, Downes and Bishop, perhaps in part as Nolan hadn't had much pre-season as he'd had a knock.
Perhaps re Norwood in the middle up front, but Drinan got the nod at the start of the season and, of course, he probably did enough to keep his place had he not got injured.
Bearing in mind dropping the average age by a year or so sees us slip into the pack probably not too much ought to be read into topping that chart, particularly as we have two 35-year-olds who skew things a little.
Of course, there are also factors such as it being more difficult for us to offload our players at the moment given the overall financial position at this level and our players largely having been brought in to play at a higher level and among the better paid League One players. I think that has contributed to us having a larger squad of senior players and makes it tougher for young players to get their chance. |
That's a bit selective to be fair, Phil. If everyone was fit there's no way Drinan would have even been on the bench for that first game. So if we're saying some younger players would have been selected if fit then we also have to accept the same is true with some older players as well. And to drop the average age by a year you need to trim 11 years off the first XI and I'm not convinced we get there with those changes, even with being very selective. It's all hypothetical in any case as who knows what Lambert considers his best XI? It rarely, it ever, coheres with what many of us view as being our best XI.
I get the argument that our circumstances mean we have a bigger squad of experiences pros than others at this level, but that doesn't mean we have to play them ahead of the youngsters. In fact if we're building for the future with a long term plan we really ought to be giving game time to our youngsters. And we should really be looking to sign some younger players too, which isn't something Lambert seems all that bothered about. | |
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| Oldest team in the league on 16:23 - Nov 16 with 844 views | PhilTWTD |
| Oldest team in the league on 16:10 - Nov 16 by Herbivore |
That's a bit selective to be fair, Phil. If everyone was fit there's no way Drinan would have even been on the bench for that first game. So if we're saying some younger players would have been selected if fit then we also have to accept the same is true with some older players as well. And to drop the average age by a year you need to trim 11 years off the first XI and I'm not convinced we get there with those changes, even with being very selective. It's all hypothetical in any case as who knows what Lambert considers his best XI? It rarely, it ever, coheres with what many of us view as being our best XI.
I get the argument that our circumstances mean we have a bigger squad of experiences pros than others at this level, but that doesn't mean we have to play them ahead of the youngsters. In fact if we're building for the future with a long term plan we really ought to be giving game time to our youngsters. And we should really be looking to sign some younger players too, which isn't something Lambert seems all that bothered about. |
Drinan just sprung to mind as I was thinking about Norwood, I was thinking more that he would have kept his place had he not got injured rather than having started in an everyone fit scenario (perhaps fantasy is more appropriate).
Not sure it's particularly selective to say that Vincent-Young, Woolfy and Downes would probably have been starters had they been fit on the opening day.
While I agree to an extent that the bigger squad oughtn't necessarily make a difference to giving youngsters games, I think in practicality it does. If you've got more experienced players available they're almost certainly going to get selected as a manager's priority is going to be winning a match first and foremost rather than giving a young player games to build for the future.
I agree that if there is a long term plan that the youngsters need games but the short term will always come first. To paraphrase Paul Jewell, to get to the long term you've got to get results in the short term. In PL's case, he knows that if we're not there or thereabouts during a season when it's vitally important we go up, he knows he will probably be out of a job. | | | |
| Oldest team in the league on 16:27 - Nov 16 with 840 views | Herbivore |
| Oldest team in the league on 16:23 - Nov 16 by PhilTWTD |
Drinan just sprung to mind as I was thinking about Norwood, I was thinking more that he would have kept his place had he not got injured rather than having started in an everyone fit scenario (perhaps fantasy is more appropriate).
Not sure it's particularly selective to say that Vincent-Young, Woolfy and Downes would probably have been starters had they been fit on the opening day.
While I agree to an extent that the bigger squad oughtn't necessarily make a difference to giving youngsters games, I think in practicality it does. If you've got more experienced players available they're almost certainly going to get selected as a manager's priority is going to be winning a match first and foremost rather than giving a young player games to build for the future.
I agree that if there is a long term plan that the youngsters need games but the short term will always come first. To paraphrase Paul Jewell, to get to the long term you've got to get results in the short term. In PL's case, he knows that if we're not there or thereabouts during a season when it's vitally important we go up, he knows he will probably be out of a job. |
If he knows that failing to get results means he'll be out of a job it kind of makes you wonder why he keeps doing it. | |
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| Oldest team in the league on 16:49 - Nov 16 with 819 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Oldest team in the league on 16:10 - Nov 16 by Herbivore |
That's a bit selective to be fair, Phil. If everyone was fit there's no way Drinan would have even been on the bench for that first game. So if we're saying some younger players would have been selected if fit then we also have to accept the same is true with some older players as well. And to drop the average age by a year you need to trim 11 years off the first XI and I'm not convinced we get there with those changes, even with being very selective. It's all hypothetical in any case as who knows what Lambert considers his best XI? It rarely, it ever, coheres with what many of us view as being our best XI.
I get the argument that our circumstances mean we have a bigger squad of experiences pros than others at this level, but that doesn't mean we have to play them ahead of the youngsters. In fact if we're building for the future with a long term plan we really ought to be giving game time to our youngsters. And we should really be looking to sign some younger players too, which isn't something Lambert seems all that bothered about. |
As I pointed out to you earlier, buying promising up-and-coming youngsters costs a premium which Lambert doesn't have. He splashed £0.5m on KVY. There's very few (possibly no more) times he can do that.
If a youngster's any good he's hardly going to be on a free. And that is the market we're shopping in unfortunately. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Oldest team in the league on 16:54 - Nov 16 with 809 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Oldest team in the league on 16:27 - Nov 16 by Herbivore |
If he knows that failing to get results means he'll be out of a job it kind of makes you wonder why he keeps doing it. |
We're 3rd and would be top but for some bizarre refereeing. And we've won every home game without conceding a goal. So he's not "failing to get results." | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Oldest team in the league on 17:01 - Nov 16 with 794 views | PhilTWTD |
| Oldest team in the league on 16:49 - Nov 16 by The_Flashing_Smile |
As I pointed out to you earlier, buying promising up-and-coming youngsters costs a premium which Lambert doesn't have. He splashed £0.5m on KVY. There's very few (possibly no more) times he can do that.
If a youngster's any good he's hardly going to be on a free. And that is the market we're shopping in unfortunately. |
And more so in the summer which has just gone when we were 'topping up' the squad with frees rather than any more than that. | | | |
| Oldest team in the league on 17:08 - Nov 16 with 787 views | haynes_toe1 |
| Oldest team in the league on 08:08 - Nov 16 by The_Flashing_Smile |
If you can't see that but for unavailability, the likes of Woolfy, Downes and Lankaster would've played more (and in the cases of the first two, would've played every game), thus bringing the average age down, then you're a little bit thick.
Harbs and his little lambs can bleat all they want, this is undeniably true. |
I don't disagree that with everyone fit our average age would be lower.
What I think is important to note is it wouldn't have taken us from the oldest to the youngest or nearabouts - and the point being made by others is entirely valid - for everything Lambert says about how young a side he picks and plays, and at times uses that as an excuse - it simply isn't true in comparison to the rest of the division.
Equally, our 'young' players aren't that young. Even big clubs are integrating 17, 18 year olds into their first team. | | | |
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