| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" 13:49 - Nov 24 with 2505 views | DanTheMan |
Saw this as part of the reporting on Matt Hancock's appearance at a joint session of the Health and Social Care Committee and Science and Technology Committee.
Taken from the BBC:
Matt Hancock then talks about the main lessons he's learned while handling the pandemic.
He says he wants to see "a change in the British way of doing things" where ‘if in doubt, get a test’ doesn’t just refer to coronavirus but refers to any illness you might have.
"Why in Britain do we think it is acceptable to soldier on and go into work if you have flu symptoms or a runny nose thus making your colleagues ill?
"I think that is something that is going to have to change. If you have in future - I hope - flu-like symptoms you should get a test for it and find out what’s wrong with you and if you need to stay at home to protect others then you stay at home."
He goes on to say: "We are peculiar, unusual and outliers in soldiering on and still going to work."
He notes that this year there have been far fewer respiratory diseases turning up in the NHS which, he says, is partly because of social distancing,
"I want this massive diagnostics capacity to be core to how we treat people in the NHS so that we help people to stay healthy in the first place rather than just looking after them when they are ill," he adds.
Find myself agreeing with all of this. I've never understood the need for people to come into work (especially offices) ill and then either having to get actually sent home or potentially worse just sitting there sneezing and infecting everyone else.
Even worse are when businesses then support those who do this. I've heard the phrase "if you're ill enough to work from home, you're ill enough to come in" at least a few times which I find just immensely short sighted.
Do we think this is just a British problem though? Not sure how other countries view coming in to work when ill. |  |
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| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 13:54 - Nov 24 with 1880 views | footers |
Bloody hell, I agree with matt hancock! I need a drink!
You're completely right. If someone says they can't make it in to the office, then just take a day or two to rest up and come back when fully recovered. It makes no sense to be at half capacity the whole week if you're forcing yourself to go in.
A couple of years ago I did used to drag myself to the office, mainly because I was the only person in the company responsible for that particular area. But that really shouldn't be my or anyone else's problem; it's up to the business to hire others to cover for you, and if they don't then they can't complain if things aren't getting done. |  |
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| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 13:59 - Nov 24 with 1860 views | Mullet |
There is an underlying culture in some workplaces that people who are ill are automatically "taking the p1ss" and it reminds of that Japanese problem of never leaving work first as to look bad. People have to come in ill and prove to everyone.
I had to go off sick, having just isolated and on the Wednesday of that week my wife was told she had to give birth in the next day or two. I dreaded phoning in everyday as it was, even though the school knew how bad i was, so to add "I need two weeks for paternity" on made me really anxious.
I do think it's really interesting that since the 80's we've had a phenomena of demonising "benefit scroungers" as that political discourse has focused massively on claimants who don't work vs. those who can't. I'd argue that feeds in massively to it. |  |
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| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 14:01 - Nov 24 with 1851 views | LankHenners |
Stopped clocks and all that.
It does seem like a very British thing, either from the old school 'stiff upper lip' attitude or the shield of Patriotism we like to use to blunder our way through things for some reason. |  |
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| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 14:01 - Nov 24 with 1850 views | bournemouthblue |
Doesn't this culture partly boil down to statutory sick pay being fairly rubbish? |  |
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| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 14:02 - Nov 24 with 1839 views | homer_123 |
| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 13:54 - Nov 24 by footers |
Bloody hell, I agree with matt hancock! I need a drink!
You're completely right. If someone says they can't make it in to the office, then just take a day or two to rest up and come back when fully recovered. It makes no sense to be at half capacity the whole week if you're forcing yourself to go in.
A couple of years ago I did used to drag myself to the office, mainly because I was the only person in the company responsible for that particular area. But that really shouldn't be my or anyone else's problem; it's up to the business to hire others to cover for you, and if they don't then they can't complain if things aren't getting done. |
Herein lies the problem of running 'lean' organisations. |  |
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| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 14:03 - Nov 24 with 1838 views | homer_123 |
| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 14:01 - Nov 24 by bournemouthblue |
Doesn't this culture partly boil down to statutory sick pay being fairly rubbish? |
Or more that companies won't pay more than just statutory? | |
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| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 14:05 - Nov 24 with 1829 views | bournemouthblue |
| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 14:03 - Nov 24 by homer_123 |
Or more that companies won't pay more than just statutory? |
Indeed, it's pretty petty but there you go
I'm sure there are many countries who look after their workers more generously than ourselves | |
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| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 14:07 - Nov 24 with 1822 views | Steve_M |
| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 13:54 - Nov 24 by footers |
Bloody hell, I agree with matt hancock! I need a drink!
You're completely right. If someone says they can't make it in to the office, then just take a day or two to rest up and come back when fully recovered. It makes no sense to be at half capacity the whole week if you're forcing yourself to go in.
A couple of years ago I did used to drag myself to the office, mainly because I was the only person in the company responsible for that particular area. But that really shouldn't be my or anyone else's problem; it's up to the business to hire others to cover for you, and if they don't then they can't complain if things aren't getting done. |
Hancock in a normal government would kind of be ok, he is a dweeb and obsessed with Apps and the private sector, but shows evidence of listening to experts and makes sensible pronouncements on the back of that. Unfortunately he's part of the current clown class which exacerbates all his own failings.
He's right here though, struggling into work ill isn't productive for the individual or wider team. Obviously some people will take the piss but they do that anyway, I'm sure we could all think of examples.
Sometimes working whilst ill is unavoidable though, especially when others are away but the greater prevalence of WFH should mean that people can at least do the necessary minimum without struggling into the office. |  |
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| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 14:07 - Nov 24 with 1820 views | eastangliaisblue |
| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 14:01 - Nov 24 by bournemouthblue |
Doesn't this culture partly boil down to statutory sick pay being fairly rubbish? |
I was about to say this. I have to admit I'm guilty of going into work, when perhaps I shouldn't of done while ill. When statutory pay is so low though, I can't afford to be off ill. Perhaps Mr Hancock would like to enlighten us how he expects the average man to get by, while off sick with just statutory pay. [Post edited 24 Nov 2020 14:08]
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| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 14:09 - Nov 24 with 1803 views | SpruceMoose |
| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 13:54 - Nov 24 by footers |
Bloody hell, I agree with matt hancock! I need a drink!
You're completely right. If someone says they can't make it in to the office, then just take a day or two to rest up and come back when fully recovered. It makes no sense to be at half capacity the whole week if you're forcing yourself to go in.
A couple of years ago I did used to drag myself to the office, mainly because I was the only person in the company responsible for that particular area. But that really shouldn't be my or anyone else's problem; it's up to the business to hire others to cover for you, and if they don't then they can't complain if things aren't getting done. |
The actual workers probably got annoyed if their coffee supplies weren't replenished I reckon. |  |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 14:10 - Nov 24 with 1788 views | SpruceMoose |
| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 14:01 - Nov 24 by LankHenners |
Stopped clocks and all that.
It does seem like a very British thing, either from the old school 'stiff upper lip' attitude or the shield of Patriotism we like to use to blunder our way through things for some reason. |
It's definitely an American thing too. There's a certain pride they place in dragging themselves into the office at death's door as if to say 'See?! Look how committed I am!?' | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 14:12 - Nov 24 with 1774 views | footers |
| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 14:09 - Nov 24 by SpruceMoose |
The actual workers probably got annoyed if their coffee supplies weren't replenished I reckon. |
Mock me all you like, but the kitchenettes I tend to are immaculate and always have properly stocked milks, sugar and sweeteners for those in denial.
And woe betide anyone who leaves a brown ring on my spotless surface.
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| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 14:18 - Nov 24 with 1746 views | DanTheMan |
| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 14:07 - Nov 24 by eastangliaisblue |
I was about to say this. I have to admit I'm guilty of going into work, when perhaps I shouldn't of done while ill. When statutory pay is so low though, I can't afford to be off ill. Perhaps Mr Hancock would like to enlighten us how he expects the average man to get by, while off sick with just statutory pay. [Post edited 24 Nov 2020 14:08]
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That's a fair point. I've been incredibly fortunate that most places I have worked paid full pay if I was sick for a day or two. | |
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| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 14:19 - Nov 24 with 1739 views | JohnWarksTash |
Working in the NHS you would expect us to be encouraged to stay away and not infect our colleagues, but it's the opposite in my experience. When we call in to say we are poorly the first question is "when will you be back" or "could you hide in an office and work?". I was exposed to covid when my daughter was on a ward during the first peak and was told I didn't have to isolate because I'm NHS staff.....not to mention the guilt we feel because someone will probably have to cover two jobs, or pull a double shift if we don't come in.
Mr Hancock needs to make sure there are enough staff in the NHS to allow people to be sick without feeling immense guilt, but he won't....we will end up with less staff, lower budgets, and pay freezes to pay back the huge debt of covid. |  | | |
| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 14:21 - Nov 24 with 1726 views | SpruceMoose |
| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 14:12 - Nov 24 by footers |
Mock me all you like, but the kitchenettes I tend to are immaculate and always have properly stocked milks, sugar and sweeteners for those in denial.
And woe betide anyone who leaves a brown ring on my spotless surface.
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Cleaner would be proud. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 14:24 - Nov 24 with 1722 views | uefacup81 |
| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 14:19 - Nov 24 by JohnWarksTash |
Working in the NHS you would expect us to be encouraged to stay away and not infect our colleagues, but it's the opposite in my experience. When we call in to say we are poorly the first question is "when will you be back" or "could you hide in an office and work?". I was exposed to covid when my daughter was on a ward during the first peak and was told I didn't have to isolate because I'm NHS staff.....not to mention the guilt we feel because someone will probably have to cover two jobs, or pull a double shift if we don't come in.
Mr Hancock needs to make sure there are enough staff in the NHS to allow people to be sick without feeling immense guilt, but he won't....we will end up with less staff, lower budgets, and pay freezes to pay back the huge debt of covid. |
Indeed.
To echo you, and other posters in this thread, perhaps we wouldn't feel the need to 'soldier on' if Terms & Conditions were better, and sickness was viewed in a different light.
I worked for an NHS Trust about five years ago, and the default position was that if you had three periods of sickness (even so much as three one-day absences) within a twelve-month period, you would have to submit to a formal capability review. I knew of no end of colleagues who essentially said "I would have called in sick, but I've already had my three absences this year". |  |
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| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 14:31 - Nov 24 with 1706 views | eastangliaisblue |
| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 14:18 - Nov 24 by DanTheMan |
That's a fair point. I've been incredibly fortunate that most places I have worked paid full pay if I was sick for a day or two. |
It's almost as if Politicians don't live in the real world! | | | |
| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 14:33 - Nov 24 with 1698 views | Steve_M |
| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 14:01 - Nov 24 by LankHenners |
Stopped clocks and all that.
It does seem like a very British thing, either from the old school 'stiff upper lip' attitude or the shield of Patriotism we like to use to blunder our way through things for some reason. |
One only has to look at Johnson's language when he was self-isolating this month or indeed when he was seriously ill in the Spring. A total reluctance to accept either that he was ill or that it might be serious because illness is a sign of weakness or something.
As others have mentioned, the US and Japan are worse. Possibly others too. | |
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| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 14:43 - Nov 24 with 1673 views | JohnWarksTash |
| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 14:24 - Nov 24 by uefacup81 |
Indeed.
To echo you, and other posters in this thread, perhaps we wouldn't feel the need to 'soldier on' if Terms & Conditions were better, and sickness was viewed in a different light.
I worked for an NHS Trust about five years ago, and the default position was that if you had three periods of sickness (even so much as three one-day absences) within a twelve-month period, you would have to submit to a formal capability review. I knew of no end of colleagues who essentially said "I would have called in sick, but I've already had my three absences this year". |
There was a system called Bradford Points which was basically the number of days off x occurrences x occurrences and it caused no end of stress which led to more people pushing themselves in and subsequently being off for longer when they finally did give in and go off sick.
It's been scrapped recently but you are still 'encouraged' by threats of Sickness Review meetings. | | | |
| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 14:46 - Nov 24 with 1667 views | chrismakin |
Depends who you work for
I was ill and off for 2 weeks earlier in the year - head tonsilitus
went back, nothing wrong for another 4 months, then came down with a cough etc.. phoned up said wouldn't come up, got a covid test, negative, went back in after three days of rest,
got a warning and told any more time off and id be facing disciplinary procedures
so now, im not risking any disapline issues, i'll go in when ill |  |
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| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 14:48 - Nov 24 with 1663 views | Dyland |
| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 14:19 - Nov 24 by JohnWarksTash |
Working in the NHS you would expect us to be encouraged to stay away and not infect our colleagues, but it's the opposite in my experience. When we call in to say we are poorly the first question is "when will you be back" or "could you hide in an office and work?". I was exposed to covid when my daughter was on a ward during the first peak and was told I didn't have to isolate because I'm NHS staff.....not to mention the guilt we feel because someone will probably have to cover two jobs, or pull a double shift if we don't come in.
Mr Hancock needs to make sure there are enough staff in the NHS to allow people to be sick without feeling immense guilt, but he won't....we will end up with less staff, lower budgets, and pay freezes to pay back the huge debt of covid. |
Indeed.
Hard to disagree with Hancock but what his party have done to the NHS must make it a very bitter truism to listen coming out of his gob. The man is right, but he is also utterly disingenuous. Context, context... |  |
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| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 14:50 - Nov 24 with 1645 views | Dyland |
| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 14:24 - Nov 24 by uefacup81 |
Indeed.
To echo you, and other posters in this thread, perhaps we wouldn't feel the need to 'soldier on' if Terms & Conditions were better, and sickness was viewed in a different light.
I worked for an NHS Trust about five years ago, and the default position was that if you had three periods of sickness (even so much as three one-day absences) within a twelve-month period, you would have to submit to a formal capability review. I knew of no end of colleagues who essentially said "I would have called in sick, but I've already had my three absences this year". |
Shocking, and bitterly ironic. | |
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| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 14:51 - Nov 24 with 1642 views | CBBlue |
| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 14:43 - Nov 24 by JohnWarksTash |
There was a system called Bradford Points which was basically the number of days off x occurrences x occurrences and it caused no end of stress which led to more people pushing themselves in and subsequently being off for longer when they finally did give in and go off sick.
It's been scrapped recently but you are still 'encouraged' by threats of Sickness Review meetings. |
Ooh didn't know it had been scrapped that was an awful system. Unfortunately I have worked in a few places where HR are on your back as soon as you're off a few times which certainly makes you tend to come in when feeling unwell especially when you knew people sacked for being ill too often. My OH's place of work will reduce your annual bonus by 1% for every day you have off sick. |  |
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| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 14:53 - Nov 24 with 1636 views | Swansea_Blue |
| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 14:24 - Nov 24 by uefacup81 |
Indeed.
To echo you, and other posters in this thread, perhaps we wouldn't feel the need to 'soldier on' if Terms & Conditions were better, and sickness was viewed in a different light.
I worked for an NHS Trust about five years ago, and the default position was that if you had three periods of sickness (even so much as three one-day absences) within a twelve-month period, you would have to submit to a formal capability review. I knew of no end of colleagues who essentially said "I would have called in sick, but I've already had my three absences this year". |
And also not helped by the messaging coming out from people like Johnson who were working from their hospital bed and generally not giving in, as if pre British pluck could see the virus off. |  |
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| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 15:00 - Nov 24 with 1620 views | Mullet |
| "Unwell Britons must stop soldiering on" on 14:50 - Nov 24 by Dyland |
Shocking, and bitterly ironic. |
I had a meeting like that a few years ago. 2x 1 day absences and then they brought up this "5 days on such a such date 11 months ago".
I looked at them a bit puzzled and asked if that was when I had a lump in my lymph nodes and they were ruling out cancer and such like. The brass and HR went outside quickly, had some hurried converstion and then cancelled the meeting on the spot and sent me back to work.
That was literally it. The problem is there are all these genius measures and paperwork in place it makes it impossible for people. | |
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