| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) 15:34 - Dec 23 with 8335 views | unstableblue |
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| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 16:31 - Dec 23 with 1978 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 15:58 - Dec 23 by StokieBlue |
You don't believe "so called" scientists?
I'm going to assume it's frustration at being placed in tier 4 rather than your actual attitude to scientists.
SB [Post edited 23 Dec 2020 16:32]
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Thought everyone knew the best experts are found on social media, be it Facebook or TWTD. |  |
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| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 16:33 - Dec 23 with 1972 views | ElderGrizzly |
Evaluation shows Cambridgeshire and Suffolk wasn’t high enough for Tier 4 in isolation, but this map shows why they have been put in
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| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 16:34 - Dec 23 with 1955 views | lowhouseblue |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 15:44 - Dec 23 by factual_blue |
Good. |
good only in the sense that the alternatives are worse. the current situation is extremely dire. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 16:37 - Dec 23 with 1955 views | homer_123 |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 16:31 - Dec 23 by StokieBlue |
Those are all important of course, however some of them would be even higher if covid was allowed to run riot as there would be even less hospital capacity than we have now. Suicides are of course vitally important but the last study I saw from the Samaritans said that suicides hadn't increased during the pandemic over the existing curve (which I actually found hard to believe - would be interested to see another study if you have it).
1000+ people were hospitalised on the 21st in just one day with C19 and that's with the existing measures in place. Given that it's hard to see anything we can do except go to tier 4 or perhaps even higher or the NHS is going to be far beyond breaking point.
What do you think should happen then?
SB |
Indeed SB.
On Covid suicides from the BMJ in late Nov:
Nevertheless, a reasonably consistent picture is beginning to emerge from high income countries. Reports suggest either no rise in suicide rates (Massachusetts, USA11; Victoria, Australia13; England14) or a fall (Japan,9 Norway15) in the early months of the pandemic.
https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4352 |  |
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| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 16:38 - Dec 23 with 1949 views | homer_123 |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 16:31 - Dec 23 by Pinewoodblue |
Thought everyone knew the best experts are found on social media, be it Facebook or TWTD. |
Oddly TWTD has some extremely objective people that post and share informative...knowledgeable and challenging views. | |
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| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 16:39 - Dec 23 with 1936 views | EastTownBlue |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 16:33 - Dec 23 by ElderGrizzly |
Evaluation shows Cambridgeshire and Suffolk wasn’t high enough for Tier 4 in isolation, but this map shows why they have been put in
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If Suffolk and Cmbridgeshire are in Tier four you would have Norfolk isolated on its own which wouldn't work either. |  | | |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 16:46 - Dec 23 with 1902 views | homer_123 |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 16:20 - Dec 23 by mikeybloo88 |
Which figures would you like us to look at?
Number of businesses closing?
Unemployment figures?
Cancer deaths?
Suicides?
Urgent operation cancellation figures?
Or just the figures which you've deemed matter.. |
From the World Economic Forum:
Government lockdowns are contributing considerably to the recession, according to new research by the IMF in their latest World Economic Outlook.
Vulnerable groups, such as women and young people, are particularly affected.
Voluntary isolation is also a contributor to economic adversity, meaning lifting lockdowns is unlikely to result in a decisive and sustained economic boost.
Until the health crisis is resolved, the economic crisis cannot be.
NOTE: the last point. I've noted this through many publications recently that are both broadly in support or against restrictions. Either way both sides acknowledge that until we get Covid under control you can't sort the economy.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/10/covid-19-coronavirus-lockdown-pandemic-ec | |
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| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 16:47 - Dec 23 with 1901 views | jas0999 |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 15:44 - Dec 23 by factual_blue |
Good. |
I disagree. This is very bad for business - stop / starting, not knowing whether they will be open from one day to the next. Whether they can survive.
Of course there needed to be restrictions - but long before now. Reopening the country in December for everyone to go out shopping and to pubs was the reason for this mismanaged stop start approach. | | | |
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| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 16:52 - Dec 23 with 1880 views | Timefliesbyintheblue |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 16:38 - Dec 23 by homer_123 |
Oddly TWTD has some extremely objective people that post and share informative...knowledgeable and challenging views. |
Objective! - If you do not read the Guardian, are not more left wing than Jimmy Leadbetter, voted for Boris or/and Brexit, do not think it is the correct time to sack Paul Lambert, and believe that posters should not be churlish as in questioning others erection capabilities, then where is the objectivity on here - what a statement.
Happy and safe Christmas to you all - | | | |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 17:20 - Dec 23 with 1828 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 16:39 - Dec 23 by EastTownBlue |
If Suffolk and Cmbridgeshire are in Tier four you would have Norfolk isolated on its own which wouldn't work either. |
I assume you meant “aren’t” below.
Sadly us all being the same makes some sense otherwise we would just have everyone from other Tier 4 places coming in and spreading the virus | | | |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 17:22 - Dec 23 with 1825 views | footers |
Money is a concept. Lives aren't.
The government can act to save jobs and lives, but they're doing their level best to fck up both. |  |
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| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 17:27 - Dec 23 with 1811 views | factual_blue |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 16:47 - Dec 23 by jas0999 |
I disagree. This is very bad for business - stop / starting, not knowing whether they will be open from one day to the next. Whether they can survive.
Of course there needed to be restrictions - but long before now. Reopening the country in December for everyone to go out shopping and to pubs was the reason for this mismanaged stop start approach. |
Precisely. The end of the half-baked November lockdown was a colossal mistake determined by a colossal idiot, ignoring highly talented scientists. |  |
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| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 17:29 - Dec 23 with 1798 views | factual_blue |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 16:05 - Dec 23 by bluelagos |
I share your frustration. Why anyone would say "Good" is beyond me tbh.
But sadly I think it is inevitable at the moment given the increasing rates of CV and the high hospitalisation rates and lack of spaces for significantly higher admissions.
You are right that continuous lockdowns is not sustainable, but fortunately we have a vaccine so we are a matter of months away from vaccinating the most vulnerable so we should be able to move on then.
Frustrating as fck but we don't really have an alternative that I can see that doesn't involve significant deaths of the elderly and vulnerable. [Post edited 23 Dec 2020 16:08]
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So you don't think 'good' is an appropriate response to a disappointing but inevitable and belatedly sensible decision?
Economic activity always revives. Dead people don't. Ever. | |
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| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 17:31 - Dec 23 with 1791 views | factual_blue |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 15:48 - Dec 23 by bluebudgie |
Why Good?the country is now being run by scientists who have got every decision wrong. Are you going to have a lockdown every time a new mutation is found because COVID is a virus and viruses have many mutations. I think some people wont be pleased until the entire country is bankrupt. |
The scientists have got every piece of advice right. boris and his stupid ministers have taken the wrong decision, or a decision too late, at every turn.
And as I've already said, economies always recover, dead people never do. | |
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| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 17:31 - Dec 23 with 1785 views | EastTownBlue |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 17:20 - Dec 23 by ElderGrizzly |
I assume you meant “aren’t” below.
Sadly us all being the same makes some sense otherwise we would just have everyone from other Tier 4 places coming in and spreading the virus |
That was the point I was trying to make. As you mentioned earlier, everywhere will be tier 4 soon enough regardless. | | | |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 17:33 - Dec 23 with 1775 views | factual_blue |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 16:12 - Dec 23 by StokieBlue |
Although Factors is in a much more risk cohort than yourself and doesn't work and thus might actually feel it's good to go to tier 4 and limit the spread and risk.
Circumstances are different for each individual.
SB |
I'm apparently old enough to remember the Battle of Agincourt, but I still haven't had my vaccination yet. | |
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| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 18:09 - Dec 23 with 1717 views | bluelagos |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 17:29 - Dec 23 by factual_blue |
So you don't think 'good' is an appropriate response to a disappointing but inevitable and belatedly sensible decision?
Economic activity always revives. Dead people don't. Ever. |
No. It needs qualifying (as in your post here) otherwise it comes across simply as smug and without any respect of the disappointment many people will inevitably feel.
Maybe I misread it, but that's how it came cross to me. |  |
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| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 18:12 - Dec 23 with 1707 views | factual_blue |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 18:09 - Dec 23 by bluelagos |
No. It needs qualifying (as in your post here) otherwise it comes across simply as smug and without any respect of the disappointment many people will inevitably feel.
Maybe I misread it, but that's how it came cross to me. |
Smugness is in the eye of the beholder.
Happy Christmas young man. | |
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| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 18:16 - Dec 23 with 1695 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 16:38 - Dec 23 by homer_123 |
Oddly TWTD has some extremely objective people that post and share informative...knowledgeable and challenging views. |
True but far too much chaff. | |
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| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 18:20 - Dec 23 with 1686 views | bluelagos |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 18:12 - Dec 23 by factual_blue |
Smugness is in the eye of the beholder.
Happy Christmas young man. |
One wise boss once explained to me that feedbback is a gift. Whether those receiving it choose to accept it, is very much down to them.
Seasons greetings to you too. | |
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| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 19:03 - Dec 23 with 1644 views | m14_blue |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 16:31 - Dec 23 by StokieBlue |
Those are all important of course, however some of them would be even higher if covid was allowed to run riot as there would be even less hospital capacity than we have now. Suicides are of course vitally important but the last study I saw from the Samaritans said that suicides hadn't increased during the pandemic over the existing curve (which I actually found hard to believe - would be interested to see another study if you have it).
1000+ people were hospitalised on the 21st in just one day with C19 and that's with the existing measures in place. Given that it's hard to see anything we can do except go to tier 4 or perhaps even higher or the NHS is going to be far beyond breaking point.
What do you think should happen then?
SB |
Well quite.
I’ve never understood why people state things like ‘cancer deaths’ and ‘cancelled operations’ as arguments against lockdowns. These things would suffer far more if COVID cases and subsequent hospitalisations were higher. | | | |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 19:24 - Dec 23 with 1620 views | factual_blue |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 18:20 - Dec 23 by bluelagos |
One wise boss once explained to me that feedbback is a gift. Whether those receiving it choose to accept it, is very much down to them.
Seasons greetings to you too. |
One should always ask the question though, I am getting a gift from one of the Wise Men, or via a Secret Santa from the office idiot.
A boss who says that is of course rather smug to imply their feedback is wonderful. | |
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| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 20:33 - Dec 23 with 1560 views | StokieBlue |
A number of scientists have given statements to the media saying that waiting until boxing day is too long and that all of the places going into tier 4 then should go in tonight.
Obviously won't happen but quite a lot of noise from scientists about it.
SB |  | | |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 21:26 - Dec 23 with 1524 views | BlueBadger |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 15:48 - Dec 23 by bluebudgie |
Why Good?the country is now being run by scientists who have got every decision wrong. Are you going to have a lockdown every time a new mutation is found because COVID is a virus and viruses have many mutations. I think some people wont be pleased until the entire country is bankrupt. |
It is stretched to breaking point in hospitals across the county, nay the region.
'The economy or the pandemic' choice is a vile myth perpetrated by right wing tosspots wh care more for money than people. The plain fact of the matter is, if you don't control the pandemic, your economy will suffer more because you'll need ever-more stringent restrictions, things take longer to get going again, people can't work or move about because y'know there's death a nd misery everywhere and the knock-on effects from an overwhelmed health service can't be underestimated.
So, with all due respect, shove your ignorant bullsh1t up your arse. |  |
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| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 21:36 - Dec 23 with 1504 views | StokieBlue |
| Tier 4 for Suffolk and remaining parts of Essex from Boxing Day (n/t) on 21:26 - Dec 23 by BlueBadger |
It is stretched to breaking point in hospitals across the county, nay the region.
'The economy or the pandemic' choice is a vile myth perpetrated by right wing tosspots wh care more for money than people. The plain fact of the matter is, if you don't control the pandemic, your economy will suffer more because you'll need ever-more stringent restrictions, things take longer to get going again, people can't work or move about because y'know there's death a nd misery everywhere and the knock-on effects from an overwhelmed health service can't be underestimated.
So, with all due respect, shove your ignorant bullsh1t up your arse. |
Sounds really bad out there, just read that hospitalisations are 29% higher in the East now than they were at the height in April and that Christmas day will be the highest day yet for numbers in hospital.
Must be really tough, good luck, stay safe and take care.
SB | | | |
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