| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 14:42 - Jan 2 with 918 views | J2BLUE |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 14:36 - Jan 2 by giant_stow |
Won't it be the nhs and the civil service handling the mechanics of the vaccination programme, rather than the govt itself? |
Yes, like usual. Obviously this is the biggest vaccination program in history but it's very wearing people letting their politics influence their opinions. I have no love for this government. They are a shambles. |  |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 15:07 - Jan 2 with 890 views | Ryorry |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 14:10 - Jan 2 by J2BLUE |
You don't think the medical advisors are having any say in prioritising and advising where the vaccines are most needed? |
They can "say" all they like - unfortunately this govt. has hardly been adhering to "following the science". |  |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 15:14 - Jan 2 with 874 views | J2BLUE |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 15:07 - Jan 2 by Ryorry |
They can "say" all they like - unfortunately this govt. has hardly been adhering to "following the science". |
No they haven't, you're right, but now they are working with the producers of the vaccine and the logistics will largely be left to the NHS who are extremely well trained in delivering vaccines and dealing with the flu vaccine each year.
Again, my faith in this government isn't high but I think this will be done right. Based on everything i've read and heard about what's happening in Ipswich locally. | |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 15:18 - Jan 2 with 864 views | Ryorry |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 14:36 - Jan 2 by giant_stow |
Won't it be the nhs and the civil service handling the mechanics of the vaccination programme, rather than the govt itself? |
Civil servants follow the instructions of the politicians currently in power, and its not as tho this Govt. has a history of respecting civil servants who speak out, is it ...
I've seen many NHS GP practices report that they didn't get anything like the number of vaccines they were promised. | |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 15:35 - Jan 2 with 833 views | Trequartista |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 12:51 - Jan 2 by ElderGrizzly |
When i have half an hour I will.
My point, which a video won’t change, is the guidance was issued in November and today there has been public (Govt) comment on it.
I appreciate Doctors aren’t going to just inject anything into people, but until trials have been completed on a large scale we shouldn’t be doing any of it. |
I disagreed with your op, but have to say I am sharing your concerns over subsequent points.
a) I think the Pfizer vaccine period between 1st and 2nd dose should stay not be stretched to 12 weeks, when the evidence that the efficacy is sustained is only available for the Oxford vaccine.
b) I read that the NHS handbook has been updated to allow mix-and-match vaccines if the 2nd dose of the vaccine taken in the 1st dose is unavailable. This is worrying as well. I think the 2nd dose of the same vaccine should be held back and guaranteed at the point of taking the first shot.
It's all about weighing up risks and considering the outcome of the alternatives, people are dying every day without the vaccines. I don't think making a guess that goes wrong will help anybody though [Post edited 2 Jan 2021 15:37]
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 15:37 - Jan 2 with 826 views | J2BLUE |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 15:35 - Jan 2 by Trequartista |
I disagreed with your op, but have to say I am sharing your concerns over subsequent points.
a) I think the Pfizer vaccine period between 1st and 2nd dose should stay not be stretched to 12 weeks, when the evidence that the efficacy is sustained is only available for the Oxford vaccine.
b) I read that the NHS handbook has been updated to allow mix-and-match vaccines if the 2nd dose of the vaccine taken in the 1st dose is unavailable. This is worrying as well. I think the 2nd dose of the same vaccine should be held back and guaranteed at the point of taking the first shot.
It's all about weighing up risks and considering the outcome of the alternatives, people are dying every day without the vaccines. I don't think making a guess that goes wrong will help anybody though [Post edited 2 Jan 2021 15:37]
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Watch the above video if you can. Just the parts i've given times for will address these points. | |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 15:39 - Jan 2 with 822 views | Trequartista |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 15:37 - Jan 2 by J2BLUE |
Watch the above video if you can. Just the parts i've given times for will address these points. |
Could you link it please, i am maybe not viewing the board in the same mode, so cannot see a video above. thanks ...
...don't worry have found it through your profile history. [Post edited 2 Jan 2021 15:45]
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 15:46 - Jan 2 with 802 views | J2BLUE |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 15:39 - Jan 2 by Trequartista |
Could you link it please, i am maybe not viewing the board in the same mode, so cannot see a video above. thanks ...
...don't worry have found it through your profile history. [Post edited 2 Jan 2021 15:45]
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Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government by J2BLUE 1 Jan 2021 23:48As usual if we look a little deeper then things aren't what they seem. Here's a video from Dr Campbell who I can't recommend enough. No nonsense, data backed stuff from someone with a comprehensive medical background.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-jqf6i5OLc
9:40 - talking about the data for one dose and then the second dose for both Pfizer and Oxford-AstraZeneca.
22:30 - talking about two different vaccines being given - one thing I would add is that studies are underway on this and no one will be getting their next dose for at least a couple of months anyway so that instruction will evolve. Obviously there are some who have already had the second dose but they've had it according to Pfizer's recommendations so they don't count.
So yes, technically our strategy will be mixing and maxing (which makes a nice interesting headline) if necessary but this will be clarified later.
[Post edited 2 Jan 2021 15:49]
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 15:56 - Jan 2 with 792 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 12:06 - Jan 2 by J2BLUE |
Public Health England have shot down the mixing of vaccines pretty quickly.
It shows that these bodies are willing to speak out if necessary. |
This hasn't stopped idiots who have a lot of followers and supporters running with the lie.
This sort of crap could affect the number of people who take the vaccine. It needs to stop now. |  |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 15:56 - Jan 2 with 784 views | Trequartista |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 15:46 - Jan 2 by J2BLUE |
Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government by J2BLUE 1 Jan 2021 23:48As usual if we look a little deeper then things aren't what they seem. Here's a video from Dr Campbell who I can't recommend enough. No nonsense, data backed stuff from someone with a comprehensive medical background.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-jqf6i5OLc
9:40 - talking about the data for one dose and then the second dose for both Pfizer and Oxford-AstraZeneca.
22:30 - talking about two different vaccines being given - one thing I would add is that studies are underway on this and no one will be getting their next dose for at least a couple of months anyway so that instruction will evolve. Obviously there are some who have already had the second dose but they've had it according to Pfizer's recommendations so they don't count.
So yes, technically our strategy will be mixing and maxing (which makes a nice interesting headline) if necessary but this will be clarified later.
[Post edited 2 Jan 2021 15:49]
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I am up to 15:00. So far I like the way he underlines how many people don't get seriously ill, something rather underplayed at press conferences so far i think. A mathematical error at 14:57 though. 9 out of 10 is 80% efficacy not 90%, because 5 out of 10 is not 50% it is 0% when you compare against a placebo, you count from the middle (4 out of 5) not from the start (9 out of 10). [Post edited 2 Jan 2021 15:57]
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 16:07 - Jan 2 with 775 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 15:35 - Jan 2 by Trequartista |
I disagreed with your op, but have to say I am sharing your concerns over subsequent points.
a) I think the Pfizer vaccine period between 1st and 2nd dose should stay not be stretched to 12 weeks, when the evidence that the efficacy is sustained is only available for the Oxford vaccine.
b) I read that the NHS handbook has been updated to allow mix-and-match vaccines if the 2nd dose of the vaccine taken in the 1st dose is unavailable. This is worrying as well. I think the 2nd dose of the same vaccine should be held back and guaranteed at the point of taking the first shot.
It's all about weighing up risks and considering the outcome of the alternatives, people are dying every day without the vaccines. I don't think making a guess that goes wrong will help anybody though [Post edited 2 Jan 2021 15:37]
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This is Dr Anthony Cox. Senior Lecturer in Clinical Pharmacy and Drug Safety.
His last sentence sums it up perfectly:
"I don’t see much anti-vaccine stuff in my timeline. But, I do see a lot of people who should know better playing with fire on vaccine policy and undermining trust in the JCVI. You should have a high bar for that activity. And the New York Times thing? That will go everywhere". | |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 16:13 - Jan 2 with 761 views | J2BLUE |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 15:56 - Jan 2 by Trequartista |
I am up to 15:00. So far I like the way he underlines how many people don't get seriously ill, something rather underplayed at press conferences so far i think. A mathematical error at 14:57 though. 9 out of 10 is 80% efficacy not 90%, because 5 out of 10 is not 50% it is 0% when you compare against a placebo, you count from the middle (4 out of 5) not from the start (9 out of 10). [Post edited 2 Jan 2021 15:57]
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The not getting seriously ill thing is the main benefit. As he said in one video "I don't mind getting a little bit sick but I don't want to be hospitalised, and I definitely don't want to die". That's exactly it isn't it? A couple of weeks not feeling too well is acceptable. The higher risk isn't. It's about saving lives and making sure the NHS can cope which that strategy suggests it can do. | |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 16:14 - Jan 2 with 754 views | J2BLUE |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 15:56 - Jan 2 by GlasgowBlue |
This hasn't stopped idiots who have a lot of followers and supporters running with the lie.
This sort of crap could affect the number of people who take the vaccine. It needs to stop now. |
Agree. | |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 16:19 - Jan 2 with 742 views | Trequartista |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 15:46 - Jan 2 by J2BLUE |
Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government by J2BLUE 1 Jan 2021 23:48As usual if we look a little deeper then things aren't what they seem. Here's a video from Dr Campbell who I can't recommend enough. No nonsense, data backed stuff from someone with a comprehensive medical background.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-jqf6i5OLc
9:40 - talking about the data for one dose and then the second dose for both Pfizer and Oxford-AstraZeneca.
22:30 - talking about two different vaccines being given - one thing I would add is that studies are underway on this and no one will be getting their next dose for at least a couple of months anyway so that instruction will evolve. Obviously there are some who have already had the second dose but they've had it according to Pfizer's recommendations so they don't count.
So yes, technically our strategy will be mixing and maxing (which makes a nice interesting headline) if necessary but this will be clarified later.
[Post edited 2 Jan 2021 15:49]
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ok i've watched the first part, it doesn't do anything to quash my "a)" concern - he doesn't appear to show any data for the 12 weeks gap between jabs for the Oxford trials, only 56 days, or more to the point, any data at all for the Pfizer beyond 3 or 4 weeks gap - i'm not saying the data doesn't exist, i just don't see it here. | |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 16:23 - Jan 2 with 729 views | J2BLUE |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 16:19 - Jan 2 by Trequartista |
ok i've watched the first part, it doesn't do anything to quash my "a)" concern - he doesn't appear to show any data for the 12 weeks gap between jabs for the Oxford trials, only 56 days, or more to the point, any data at all for the Pfizer beyond 3 or 4 weeks gap - i'm not saying the data doesn't exist, i just don't see it here. |
Why do we think the antibodies and t cell response will go away though? People who got SARS-Coronavirus-1 (or whatever it was called) still have their immune response all these years later.
He's written detailed text books on physiology so you'd think he'd know if there was good reason to be concerned. | |
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| Agreed, there's a very thin line between.... on 16:24 - Jan 2 with 737 views | Bloots |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 15:56 - Jan 2 by GlasgowBlue |
This hasn't stopped idiots who have a lot of followers and supporters running with the lie.
This sort of crap could affect the number of people who take the vaccine. It needs to stop now. |
....people that jump on idiotic, unresearched, poorly written, exaggerated media reports preaching them as gospel and the all out conspiracy nutters.
They are two sides of the same coin really.
In many ways those people that have a level of intelligence yet still peddle this crap are worse because the less gifted members of the public believe them.
It's been the same since this all started and in the majority of situations their bleating of bullcrap is proven totally unwarranted.
I'm sick of it, they can all fook off. |  |
| Enduringly lovable, intelligent and thunderingly exquisite. |
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| Agreed, there's a very thin line between.... on 16:25 - Jan 2 with 719 views | J2BLUE |
| Agreed, there's a very thin line between.... on 16:24 - Jan 2 by Bloots |
....people that jump on idiotic, unresearched, poorly written, exaggerated media reports preaching them as gospel and the all out conspiracy nutters.
They are two sides of the same coin really.
In many ways those people that have a level of intelligence yet still peddle this crap are worse because the less gifted members of the public believe them.
It's been the same since this all started and in the majority of situations their bleating of bullcrap is proven totally unwarranted.
I'm sick of it, they can all fook off. |
Amen | |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 16:26 - Jan 2 with 716 views | Trequartista |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 16:07 - Jan 2 by GlasgowBlue |
This is Dr Anthony Cox. Senior Lecturer in Clinical Pharmacy and Drug Safety.
His last sentence sums it up perfectly:
"I don’t see much anti-vaccine stuff in my timeline. But, I do see a lot of people who should know better playing with fire on vaccine policy and undermining trust in the JCVI. You should have a high bar for that activity. And the New York Times thing? That will go everywhere". |
The New York Times have twisted the words, of that there is no doubt, but a situation that is described now as "extremely rare", may not turn out to be so rare depending on how well the rollout goes. If we get shortages in some areas, supply chain issues or any manner of cockups along the way, these situations may not be as rare as currently claimed. | |
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| Agreed, there's a very thin line between.... on 16:27 - Jan 2 with 703 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Agreed, there's a very thin line between.... on 16:24 - Jan 2 by Bloots |
....people that jump on idiotic, unresearched, poorly written, exaggerated media reports preaching them as gospel and the all out conspiracy nutters.
They are two sides of the same coin really.
In many ways those people that have a level of intelligence yet still peddle this crap are worse because the less gifted members of the public believe them.
It's been the same since this all started and in the majority of situations their bleating of bullcrap is proven totally unwarranted.
I'm sick of it, they can all fook off. |
Hear Here. | |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 16:34 - Jan 2 with 675 views | Trequartista |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 16:23 - Jan 2 by J2BLUE |
Why do we think the antibodies and t cell response will go away though? People who got SARS-Coronavirus-1 (or whatever it was called) still have their immune response all these years later.
He's written detailed text books on physiology so you'd think he'd know if there was good reason to be concerned. |
Well covid-19 has a nasty habit of rewriting the rulebook, i prefer solid data to assumptions.
But we're in an emergency situation where people are dying. We're going to have to run with some things on a calculated risk basis when the alternative is much worse. I am in favour of that. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't tick each box without some detailed examination.
Watching part 2 now. | |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 16:37 - Jan 2 with 672 views | J2BLUE |
More good news:
Pfizer have said there is no shortage of their vaccine and they are delivering as agreed.
Batches of the AstraZeneca vaccine have begun to arrive at hospitals. | |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 16:38 - Jan 2 with 664 views | J2BLUE |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 16:34 - Jan 2 by Trequartista |
Well covid-19 has a nasty habit of rewriting the rulebook, i prefer solid data to assumptions.
But we're in an emergency situation where people are dying. We're going to have to run with some things on a calculated risk basis when the alternative is much worse. I am in favour of that. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't tick each box without some detailed examination.
Watching part 2 now. |
'i prefer solid data to assumptions'
No sh1t.
'We're going to have to run with some things on a calculated risk basis when the alternative is much worse.'
Precisely
'But that doesn't mean we shouldn't tick each box without some detailed examination'
Who said we should? | |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 16:58 - Jan 2 with 645 views | Trequartista |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 16:38 - Jan 2 by J2BLUE |
'i prefer solid data to assumptions'
No sh1t.
'We're going to have to run with some things on a calculated risk basis when the alternative is much worse.'
Precisely
'But that doesn't mean we shouldn't tick each box without some detailed examination'
Who said we should? |
Well we just seemed to have ticked mix-and-match as a possibility, when it was a definite 'no' only a few days ago at the initial press conference, with no extra evidence. I'm not saying that's wrong if people more qualified than me think on balance it is worth the risk, i'm just saying it is a concern to me. | |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 17:05 - Jan 2 with 636 views | J2BLUE |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 16:58 - Jan 2 by Trequartista |
Well we just seemed to have ticked mix-and-match as a possibility, when it was a definite 'no' only a few days ago at the initial press conference, with no extra evidence. I'm not saying that's wrong if people more qualified than me think on balance it is worth the risk, i'm just saying it is a concern to me. |
I don't think mixing and matching will take place personally. I know they've put it in the guidance book but as i've said we're a minimum two months from it being an issue and they are running studies on whether it's a good idea or not. By the time it's needed that advice will be updated one way or the other. They've also said every effort will be made to give people the same vaccine and when we factor in the numbers and the supply issues of the Pfizer one it seems pretty obvious most people will get two doses of the same just by supply and storage limitations. | |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 17:10 - Jan 2 with 619 views | Trequartista |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 17:05 - Jan 2 by J2BLUE |
I don't think mixing and matching will take place personally. I know they've put it in the guidance book but as i've said we're a minimum two months from it being an issue and they are running studies on whether it's a good idea or not. By the time it's needed that advice will be updated one way or the other. They've also said every effort will be made to give people the same vaccine and when we factor in the numbers and the supply issues of the Pfizer one it seems pretty obvious most people will get two doses of the same just by supply and storage limitations. |
Very much hope so. Indeed if it could be proven through trials they can be mixed-and-matched safely with no reduction in efficacy whatsoever, this could save lives. | |
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