| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 17:13 - Jan 2 with 1443 views | Ace_High1 |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 17:05 - Jan 2 by J2BLUE |
I don't think mixing and matching will take place personally. I know they've put it in the guidance book but as i've said we're a minimum two months from it being an issue and they are running studies on whether it's a good idea or not. By the time it's needed that advice will be updated one way or the other. They've also said every effort will be made to give people the same vaccine and when we factor in the numbers and the supply issues of the Pfizer one it seems pretty obvious most people will get two doses of the same just by supply and storage limitations. |
Thanks for fighting the good fight J2 with some much needed positivity.
I am the same, we are near the end and it is insight.
I have no confidence in the Government who are a shambles but this has to go right. Scale up and get on with it!! |  | |  |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 17:32 - Jan 2 with 1406 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 11:46 - Jan 2 by MJallday |
So I just want to add some personal experience here
A direct family member (under 40) works in a care home in a non care capacity. As part of their job they were vacinated when it first came out in late November.
On Christmas Day they received a text to say they had tested positive.
Maybe they are just unlucky but based on 1 peice of evidence, the 1st dose of the vaccine has not been effective in this case.
Just thought I would share that |
This may have been answered and I've missed it. But isn't it the case that the vaccine doesn't necessarily stop you catching Covid. What it does is prime your immune system to be able to fight it off so any symptoms are very much reduced? That's why we're still likely to have to wear masks and social distance for some time even after vaccinations are well under way.
I may have this wrong and haven't checked, so take with a pinch of salt. |  |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 18:21 - Jan 2 with 1364 views | Keaneish |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 17:32 - Jan 2 by Swansea_Blue |
This may have been answered and I've missed it. But isn't it the case that the vaccine doesn't necessarily stop you catching Covid. What it does is prime your immune system to be able to fight it off so any symptoms are very much reduced? That's why we're still likely to have to wear masks and social distance for some time even after vaccinations are well under way.
I may have this wrong and haven't checked, so take with a pinch of salt. |
Yes, exactly this. Vaccines prime your body to produce a lymphocyte, which is a memory cell to help fight infection. You can pass COVID on or contract COVID after having a vaccine if infected before the vaccine has had time to provide resistance - I’m sure everyone will get screened before having a vaccine first regardless.
I’ve seen people referring to the vaccine as a cure, which it really isn’t; it’s a preventive measure. The greater and wider the prevention the more likely the disease becomes obsolete. There are plenty of vaccines which have all but eradicated disease in some countries, polio being one to point to. |  |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 20:33 - Jan 2 with 1307 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 11:46 - Jan 2 by MJallday |
So I just want to add some personal experience here
A direct family member (under 40) works in a care home in a non care capacity. As part of their job they were vacinated when it first came out in late November.
On Christmas Day they received a text to say they had tested positive.
Maybe they are just unlucky but based on 1 peice of evidence, the 1st dose of the vaccine has not been effective in this case.
Just thought I would share that |
The first vaccine wasn’t given until 8th December and that was the ‘for TV’ ones.
So there is a chance it wasn’t fully effective, as wider roll-out was a few days later |  | | |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 20:41 - Jan 2 with 1280 views | 26_Paz |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 20:33 - Jan 2 by ElderGrizzly |
The first vaccine wasn’t given until 8th December and that was the ‘for TV’ ones.
So there is a chance it wasn’t fully effective, as wider roll-out was a few days later |
Also, aren’t they supposed to stop you getting serious symptoms as opposed to stopping you testing positive? |  |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 20:44 - Jan 2 with 1282 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 20:41 - Jan 2 by 26_Paz |
Also, aren’t they supposed to stop you getting serious symptoms as opposed to stopping you testing positive? |
Indeed. You’re getting the hang of this being accurate lark :) | | | |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 23:21 - Jan 2 with 1236 views | catch74 |
This guy has been fantastic throughout. My kids seem to know about him too.
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 18:02 - Jan 4 with 1002 views | MJallday |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 12:00 - Jan 2 by J2BLUE |
That's not a massive surprise. The more interesting thing would be how are they doing? |
Actually he’s ok. Very flu like but no worse. |  |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 18:04 - Jan 4 with 995 views | J2BLUE |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 18:02 - Jan 4 by MJallday |
Actually he’s ok. Very flu like but no worse. |
Good stuff, hope he recovers quickly. |  |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 13:29 - Jan 6 with 925 views | StokieBlue |
The Germans have just announced that after a review with vaccination experts they will be sticking with the two doses for Pfizer and Moderna.
There seems to be quite a lot of expert pushback now on changing the dosage schedules for the mRNA vaccines (not Oxford), it's interesting how so many experts can be divided on the subject.
SB |  | | |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 13:44 - Jan 6 with 887 views | Ryorry |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 13:29 - Jan 6 by StokieBlue |
The Germans have just announced that after a review with vaccination experts they will be sticking with the two doses for Pfizer and Moderna.
There seems to be quite a lot of expert pushback now on changing the dosage schedules for the mRNA vaccines (not Oxford), it's interesting how so many experts can be divided on the subject.
SB |
"it's interesting how so many experts can be divided on the subject."
Even Chris Whitty had to admit yesterday that there's a "low risk" with spacing the doses out further apart than is recommended by the manufacturers.
It's an absolutely huge concern, and basically, a gamble which if it goes the wrong way could result in a vaccine-resistant virus. Let's pray that doesn't happen because we clearly don't have any other power in the decision-making process. |  |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 13:51 - Jan 6 with 875 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 13:29 - Jan 6 by StokieBlue |
The Germans have just announced that after a review with vaccination experts they will be sticking with the two doses for Pfizer and Moderna.
There seems to be quite a lot of expert pushback now on changing the dosage schedules for the mRNA vaccines (not Oxford), it's interesting how so many experts can be divided on the subject.
SB |
Pfizer is delivered in dry ice to keep the temp at optimum and then has 5 days to be used. The Oxford vaccine is going to be much easy to manage and this is the one which will really make it easier to take out into the community.
The Pfizer jab has such specific reconstitution requirements it would be hard to manage without wastage. From what I understand each vial has 6 doses in it so each nurse is responsible for all 6 doses in that vial. It has to be out of the fridge at least 20mins but no more than 2hours before being mixed and then has 6 hours to be given.
There is so much chit chat about this and that but as usual no one seems to be asking the important questions.
Let's say we have ordered 80m Oxford doses (I don't know the exact figure). What happens if The EU for example approve it and order 500m. Does our 80m then get pushed back? What happens if we actually really get cracking on the jabs, is there a limit per week of supply? |  |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 14:01 - Jan 6 with 840 views | giant_stow |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 13:51 - Jan 6 by Lord_Lucan |
Pfizer is delivered in dry ice to keep the temp at optimum and then has 5 days to be used. The Oxford vaccine is going to be much easy to manage and this is the one which will really make it easier to take out into the community.
The Pfizer jab has such specific reconstitution requirements it would be hard to manage without wastage. From what I understand each vial has 6 doses in it so each nurse is responsible for all 6 doses in that vial. It has to be out of the fridge at least 20mins but no more than 2hours before being mixed and then has 6 hours to be given.
There is so much chit chat about this and that but as usual no one seems to be asking the important questions.
Let's say we have ordered 80m Oxford doses (I don't know the exact figure). What happens if The EU for example approve it and order 500m. Does our 80m then get pushed back? What happens if we actually really get cracking on the jabs, is there a limit per week of supply? |
I read something the other day about Pfizer strictly prioritising first come, first served. I guess in practice, their arms could be twisted by the Germans or the yanks, but that's the theory. |  |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 14:14 - Jan 6 with 825 views | StokieBlue |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 13:51 - Jan 6 by Lord_Lucan |
Pfizer is delivered in dry ice to keep the temp at optimum and then has 5 days to be used. The Oxford vaccine is going to be much easy to manage and this is the one which will really make it easier to take out into the community.
The Pfizer jab has such specific reconstitution requirements it would be hard to manage without wastage. From what I understand each vial has 6 doses in it so each nurse is responsible for all 6 doses in that vial. It has to be out of the fridge at least 20mins but no more than 2hours before being mixed and then has 6 hours to be given.
There is so much chit chat about this and that but as usual no one seems to be asking the important questions.
Let's say we have ordered 80m Oxford doses (I don't know the exact figure). What happens if The EU for example approve it and order 500m. Does our 80m then get pushed back? What happens if we actually really get cracking on the jabs, is there a limit per week of supply? |
Afternoon Lucan, nice to see you posting again.
The issue isn't the delivery (which is difficult as you state) but more there is no proof that not using the two dosage system for the mRNA vaccines is effective. There is non-public proof that it is for Oxford but not for mRNA and that is why a number of people are questioning the single dose of mRNA vaccines and why German has decided not to do that and stick to the manufactures testing.
On the logistics of delivery I am not sure. I believe we are due 100m Oxford doses and that we would get 10's of millions over the next few months. I don't see why getting another order would push our order back?
SB | | | |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 14:31 - Jan 6 with 814 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 14:14 - Jan 6 by StokieBlue |
Afternoon Lucan, nice to see you posting again.
The issue isn't the delivery (which is difficult as you state) but more there is no proof that not using the two dosage system for the mRNA vaccines is effective. There is non-public proof that it is for Oxford but not for mRNA and that is why a number of people are questioning the single dose of mRNA vaccines and why German has decided not to do that and stick to the manufactures testing.
On the logistics of delivery I am not sure. I believe we are due 100m Oxford doses and that we would get 10's of millions over the next few months. I don't see why getting another order would push our order back?
SB |
I have zero knowledge on the 1 or 2 dose effectiveness so I cannot comment, except that Mother is having jab 2 in half an hour - so I wonder if they are using all the Pfizer as a 2 jabber??
My concern as stated was basically supply and demand. Since we ordered our lot India have ordered about a billion and if EU roll it out that will be 500k. At some point you would imagine that demand could outstrip supply - in which case, is it first come first served, dilution of orders per week, preferred customers etc etc? Where the hell is all this being made, how many plants etc etc etc. [Post edited 6 Jan 2021 15:00]
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 14:36 - Jan 6 with 801 views | StokieBlue |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 14:31 - Jan 6 by Lord_Lucan |
I have zero knowledge on the 1 or 2 dose effectiveness so I cannot comment, except that Mother is having jab 2 in half an hour - so I wonder if they are using all the Pfizer as a 2 jabber??
My concern as stated was basically supply and demand. Since we ordered our lot India have ordered about a billion and if EU roll it out that will be 500k. At some point you would imagine that demand could outstrip supply - in which case, is it first come first served, dilution of orders per week, preferred customers etc etc? Where the hell is all this being made, how many plants etc etc etc. [Post edited 6 Jan 2021 15:00]
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"The Company has concluded the first agreements for at least 400 million doses and has secured total manufacturing capacity for one billion doses so far and will begin first deliveries in September 2020."
From a AZ/Oxford press release in May. I assume they have upped their production since then though. In the release it specifically thanks the UK and US governments for the funding and we are part of the "first agreements" so we should get all ours before new orders are fulfilled I believe.
Happy for someone to correct that though.
SB | | | |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 14:53 - Jan 6 with 774 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 14:36 - Jan 6 by StokieBlue |
"The Company has concluded the first agreements for at least 400 million doses and has secured total manufacturing capacity for one billion doses so far and will begin first deliveries in September 2020."
From a AZ/Oxford press release in May. I assume they have upped their production since then though. In the release it specifically thanks the UK and US governments for the funding and we are part of the "first agreements" so we should get all ours before new orders are fulfilled I believe.
Happy for someone to correct that though.
SB |
Great, although it doesn't mention a timescale of how quick they can produce their orders, only when the first batches are rolled out.
I could take orders for 400 million party poppers but it would take me four years to fulfil the order. | |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 14:57 - Jan 6 with 767 views | StokieBlue |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 14:53 - Jan 6 by Lord_Lucan |
Great, although it doesn't mention a timescale of how quick they can produce their orders, only when the first batches are rolled out.
I could take orders for 400 million party poppers but it would take me four years to fulfil the order. |
The manufacturing of 1 billion orders was by the end of 2021 with the manufacturing they had in place in May. I don't know what it is now.
I can't find the link I copied that from now (it was an AZ press release) and have a meeting so can look later.
SB | | | |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 15:06 - Jan 6 with 747 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 14:57 - Jan 6 by StokieBlue |
The manufacturing of 1 billion orders was by the end of 2021 with the manufacturing they had in place in May. I don't know what it is now.
I can't find the link I copied that from now (it was an AZ press release) and have a meeting so can look later.
SB |
Ok thanks - but this is the problem (depending of course whether they have ramped up production or not and if so by how much)
1 billion isn't going to go far and manufacturing this was by end of 2021
The whole world and his dog are promising full vaccination by then. | |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 15:14 - Jan 6 with 732 views | J2BLUE |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 15:06 - Jan 6 by Lord_Lucan |
Ok thanks - but this is the problem (depending of course whether they have ramped up production or not and if so by how much)
1 billion isn't going to go far and manufacturing this was by end of 2021
The whole world and his dog are promising full vaccination by then. |
I think we are due 100m as a priority. I saw a graphic which showed which countries were in line for the Oxford vaccine and we were first. America second. EU third. Japan had to wait until November. I'll try and find it.
The Johnson and Johnson vaccine should be coming within the next 6 weeks or so. Hopefully by the summer there will be loads of vaccines around. America are second in line but don't seem to be in any rush to authorise the Oxford vaccine.
I'll try and find the graphic. | |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 15:39 - Jan 6 with 710 views | J2BLUE |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 15:14 - Jan 6 by J2BLUE |
I think we are due 100m as a priority. I saw a graphic which showed which countries were in line for the Oxford vaccine and we were first. America second. EU third. Japan had to wait until November. I'll try and find it.
The Johnson and Johnson vaccine should be coming within the next 6 weeks or so. Hopefully by the summer there will be loads of vaccines around. America are second in line but don't seem to be in any rush to authorise the Oxford vaccine.
I'll try and find the graphic. |
Can't find it. Originally saw it during a Dr Campbell video and can't remember when. We released on average about one a day so can't go back through them. | |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 15:51 - Jan 6 with 706 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 15:14 - Jan 6 by J2BLUE |
I think we are due 100m as a priority. I saw a graphic which showed which countries were in line for the Oxford vaccine and we were first. America second. EU third. Japan had to wait until November. I'll try and find it.
The Johnson and Johnson vaccine should be coming within the next 6 weeks or so. Hopefully by the summer there will be loads of vaccines around. America are second in line but don't seem to be in any rush to authorise the Oxford vaccine.
I'll try and find the graphic. |
EU third? Have they even approved it yet?
Gotta say I forsee logistical problems before we get it, hopefully I am wrong.
Have to admit I've been a bit double busy so haven't studied the finer details yet but I don't recall anyone actually saying there is a signed contract for x amount by yy/yy/yy
Are the army involved in distributing this? I bloody hope so, they should have been tasked with track and trace and then we might be in a better position.
We need someone to say "Right, what's done is done, let's move this fücker along"
Think outside the box a bit for a change. I know there are distancing and waiting requirements but if we can get x million to walk up and vote in a general election in a short time then we can do this. | |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 15:57 - Jan 6 with 691 views | itfcjoe |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 15:51 - Jan 6 by Lord_Lucan |
EU third? Have they even approved it yet?
Gotta say I forsee logistical problems before we get it, hopefully I am wrong.
Have to admit I've been a bit double busy so haven't studied the finer details yet but I don't recall anyone actually saying there is a signed contract for x amount by yy/yy/yy
Are the army involved in distributing this? I bloody hope so, they should have been tasked with track and trace and then we might be in a better position.
We need someone to say "Right, what's done is done, let's move this fücker along"
Think outside the box a bit for a change. I know there are distancing and waiting requirements but if we can get x million to walk up and vote in a general election in a short time then we can do this. |
I, like I'm sure plenty of others, just don't want to be hearing excuses in 6 weeks time as to why we haven't done those 4 groups promised.
If the Govt get the roll out right, and as a country we get it done before European neighbours then a lot of what has happened so far will be forgotten. |  |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 15:58 - Jan 6 with 691 views | J2BLUE |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 15:51 - Jan 6 by Lord_Lucan |
EU third? Have they even approved it yet?
Gotta say I forsee logistical problems before we get it, hopefully I am wrong.
Have to admit I've been a bit double busy so haven't studied the finer details yet but I don't recall anyone actually saying there is a signed contract for x amount by yy/yy/yy
Are the army involved in distributing this? I bloody hope so, they should have been tasked with track and trace and then we might be in a better position.
We need someone to say "Right, what's done is done, let's move this fücker along"
Think outside the box a bit for a change. I know there are distancing and waiting requirements but if we can get x million to walk up and vote in a general election in a short time then we can do this. |
AstraZeneca have said there's no shortage of the vaccine. It just needs batch testing so we have about 3m doses held up but hopefully the flow will begin and we will see the targets hit.
Call me naive but the fact they are doing a daily update really gives me hope. I'm sure the Tories have set the bar low with 2m doses a week and think they can smash it. I got the feeling Johnson knows the vaccine is all that is keeping many people compliant and people will want to see real progress day by day. | |
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