| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 10:47 - Jan 2 with 948 views | longtimefan |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 09:48 - Jan 2 by GlasgowBlue |
Another misleading and scaremongering headline from the NYT.
So only where records don't show which vaccine was used for the first dose, any vaccine may be used for the second. Not if the ‘vaccine of choice’ isn’t available at time of 2nd dose as you have misleadingly stated in your post.
Please stop undermining trust in the vaccines when you either know what you are saying is false or haven’t bothered to read what the JCVI guidance states. [Post edited 2 Jan 2021 9:51]
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Doctor from the JCVI on R4 this morning was quite clear that intention was to use same vaccine as they had no data on mixed vaccines at present, and would require proper trials conducted before it was allowed. |  | |  |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 11:35 - Jan 2 with 904 views | Ryorry |
Some interesting comparisons between the different vaccinations, how they work, and useful info (incl strong immune response to the Oxford vaccination for the over-70 age group) here
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51665497 |  |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 11:46 - Jan 2 with 893 views | MJallday |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 11:35 - Jan 2 by Ryorry |
Some interesting comparisons between the different vaccinations, how they work, and useful info (incl strong immune response to the Oxford vaccination for the over-70 age group) here
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51665497 |
So I just want to add some personal experience here
A direct family member (under 40) works in a care home in a non care capacity. As part of their job they were vacinated when it first came out in late November.
On Christmas Day they received a text to say they had tested positive.
Maybe they are just unlucky but based on 1 peice of evidence, the 1st dose of the vaccine has not been effective in this case.
Just thought I would share that |  |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 11:57 - Jan 2 with 875 views | J2BLUE |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 10:46 - Jan 2 by catch74 |
So what’s the best case timescale for coming out of this lockdown? - surely we’re going into a full scale, countrywide lockdown like before.
Let’s say 2.5 m first dose by mid Jan, then 2m vaccines per week. 25m people need to be vaccinated to cover high - risk . So that’s everyone first dose by mid to late March. We’re then well into the initial injections having to have their second, this slows down everyone else surely?
So Easter at the very earliest, if all goes well? |
I think we'll do the 25m by the end of February. I realise that's a massive call, especially with this government but here's why:
1) 3.5m Oxford vaccine ready to go and 15m available after a two week batch check with more being made.
2) Pfizer say they have sent "millions" of doses to the UK. Millions could mean two, it could mean more but the exact quote was "in the millions" which would be a strange choice of language if it wasn't 3m+.
3) Pfizer and AstraZeneca have both said there is no supply problem
4) Tony Blair seems to know something we don't about the J&J vaccine and if we really do have that at the end of the month then that's another weapon in the arsenal. 250 army medic teams are on standby and can deliver 100,000 doses a day if needed.
5) Two million per week sounds a lot and the logistics will be very challenging but the actual delivery of these vaccines can be done. One surgery in Ipswich gave out 900 vaccines on December 23rd. 1000x1000=1 million. I'm sure we'll have more than 1000 sites up and running very soon including some which can vaccinate many thousand per day. The plans for Trinity Park sound like they are expecting to vaccinate a lot of people each day. Signing people up to manage queues and parking etc.
6) Matt Hancock says delivery will be limited only by supply. Yes, I know he's said a lot which isn't true but this does seem genuine when you look at the numbers.
I really do think there's quite a lot to be optimistic about. I know this government can't organise a piss up in a brewery but i'm hoping the medical officers and Oxford/AstraZeneca/Pfizer will take care of much of the logistics. |  |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 12:00 - Jan 2 with 870 views | J2BLUE |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 11:46 - Jan 2 by MJallday |
So I just want to add some personal experience here
A direct family member (under 40) works in a care home in a non care capacity. As part of their job they were vacinated when it first came out in late November.
On Christmas Day they received a text to say they had tested positive.
Maybe they are just unlucky but based on 1 peice of evidence, the 1st dose of the vaccine has not been effective in this case.
Just thought I would share that |
That's not a massive surprise. The more interesting thing would be how are they doing? | |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 12:06 - Jan 2 with 865 views | J2BLUE |
Public Health England have shot down the mixing of vaccines pretty quickly.
It shows that these bodies are willing to speak out if necessary. | |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 12:29 - Jan 2 with 822 views | catch74 |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 11:57 - Jan 2 by J2BLUE |
I think we'll do the 25m by the end of February. I realise that's a massive call, especially with this government but here's why:
1) 3.5m Oxford vaccine ready to go and 15m available after a two week batch check with more being made.
2) Pfizer say they have sent "millions" of doses to the UK. Millions could mean two, it could mean more but the exact quote was "in the millions" which would be a strange choice of language if it wasn't 3m+.
3) Pfizer and AstraZeneca have both said there is no supply problem
4) Tony Blair seems to know something we don't about the J&J vaccine and if we really do have that at the end of the month then that's another weapon in the arsenal. 250 army medic teams are on standby and can deliver 100,000 doses a day if needed.
5) Two million per week sounds a lot and the logistics will be very challenging but the actual delivery of these vaccines can be done. One surgery in Ipswich gave out 900 vaccines on December 23rd. 1000x1000=1 million. I'm sure we'll have more than 1000 sites up and running very soon including some which can vaccinate many thousand per day. The plans for Trinity Park sound like they are expecting to vaccinate a lot of people each day. Signing people up to manage queues and parking etc.
6) Matt Hancock says delivery will be limited only by supply. Yes, I know he's said a lot which isn't true but this does seem genuine when you look at the numbers.
I really do think there's quite a lot to be optimistic about. I know this government can't organise a piss up in a brewery but i'm hoping the medical officers and Oxford/AstraZeneca/Pfizer will take care of much of the logistics. |
Cheers J2, given me a morning boost. |  |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 12:35 - Jan 2 with 813 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 09:48 - Jan 2 by GlasgowBlue |
Another misleading and scaremongering headline from the NYT.
So only where records don't show which vaccine was used for the first dose, any vaccine may be used for the second. Not if the ‘vaccine of choice’ isn’t available at time of 2nd dose as you have misleadingly stated in your post.
Please stop undermining trust in the vaccines when you either know what you are saying is false or haven’t bothered to read what the JCVI guidance states. [Post edited 2 Jan 2021 9:51]
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I’m not undermining trust. What you are linking to is not the whole story and they recommended mixing back in November before a single vaccine had been delivered, or importantly any trials had been given.
As with the OP response which you kept getting wrong when the Pfizer dose change was snuck in, maybe it is you who should read before you type... |  | | |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 12:37 - Jan 2 with 812 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 12:06 - Jan 2 by J2BLUE |
Public Health England have shot down the mixing of vaccines pretty quickly.
It shows that these bodies are willing to speak out if necessary. |
If by pretty quickly, you mean once it became public?
It was in guidance issued at the end of November | | | |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 12:41 - Jan 2 with 801 views | J2BLUE |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 12:37 - Jan 2 by ElderGrizzly |
If by pretty quickly, you mean once it became public?
It was in guidance issued at the end of November |
Watch the video clip above. | |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 12:49 - Jan 2 with 784 views | Ryorry |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 11:57 - Jan 2 by J2BLUE |
I think we'll do the 25m by the end of February. I realise that's a massive call, especially with this government but here's why:
1) 3.5m Oxford vaccine ready to go and 15m available after a two week batch check with more being made.
2) Pfizer say they have sent "millions" of doses to the UK. Millions could mean two, it could mean more but the exact quote was "in the millions" which would be a strange choice of language if it wasn't 3m+.
3) Pfizer and AstraZeneca have both said there is no supply problem
4) Tony Blair seems to know something we don't about the J&J vaccine and if we really do have that at the end of the month then that's another weapon in the arsenal. 250 army medic teams are on standby and can deliver 100,000 doses a day if needed.
5) Two million per week sounds a lot and the logistics will be very challenging but the actual delivery of these vaccines can be done. One surgery in Ipswich gave out 900 vaccines on December 23rd. 1000x1000=1 million. I'm sure we'll have more than 1000 sites up and running very soon including some which can vaccinate many thousand per day. The plans for Trinity Park sound like they are expecting to vaccinate a lot of people each day. Signing people up to manage queues and parking etc.
6) Matt Hancock says delivery will be limited only by supply. Yes, I know he's said a lot which isn't true but this does seem genuine when you look at the numbers.
I really do think there's quite a lot to be optimistic about. I know this government can't organise a piss up in a brewery but i'm hoping the medical officers and Oxford/AstraZeneca/Pfizer will take care of much of the logistics. |
That is so much the triumph of hope over experience - this gov have made a mess of almost everything they have been involved in this pandemic - allowing flights in without checks, PPE, track & trace, care home deaths, delays in lockdown, Uturns, schools fiasco etc.
Who are the medics who are advising Tony Blair?
I do hope you are right, but ... | |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 12:51 - Jan 2 with 787 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 12:41 - Jan 2 by J2BLUE |
Watch the video clip above. |
When i have half an hour I will.
My point, which a video won’t change, is the guidance was issued in November and today there has been public (Govt) comment on it.
I appreciate Doctors aren’t going to just inject anything into people, but until trials have been completed on a large scale we shouldn’t be doing any of it. | | | |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 12:56 - Jan 2 with 769 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 12:35 - Jan 2 by ElderGrizzly |
I’m not undermining trust. What you are linking to is not the whole story and they recommended mixing back in November before a single vaccine had been delivered, or importantly any trials had been given.
As with the OP response which you kept getting wrong when the Pfizer dose change was snuck in, maybe it is you who should read before you type... |
Your op was never about the Pfizer vaccine. Your second contribution to this thread is quite clear that you were referring to the Oxford/ Astra Zeneca vaccine.
"Yet none of the trials tested the vaccine at 12 week dose intervals.
So this could make the 2nd dose much less effective.
Also, as it stands, the Astra Zeneca regimen approved is the 62% efficacy one, not the 90% one."
The vaccine. Not the vaccines.
I've linked the JCVI guidance which was actually linked in the NYT article that you posted. It couldn't be any clearer. |  |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 13:01 - Jan 2 with 757 views | Ryorry |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 12:51 - Jan 2 by ElderGrizzly |
When i have half an hour I will.
My point, which a video won’t change, is the guidance was issued in November and today there has been public (Govt) comment on it.
I appreciate Doctors aren’t going to just inject anything into people, but until trials have been completed on a large scale we shouldn’t be doing any of it. |
Couple of informative threads from medics here - (can't vouch for the credentials of the first, but both are interesting reads for those trying to ascertain the facts anyway) -
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 13:03 - Jan 2 with 749 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 10:47 - Jan 2 by longtimefan |
Doctor from the JCVI on R4 this morning was quite clear that intention was to use same vaccine as they had no data on mixed vaccines at present, and would require proper trials conducted before it was allowed. |
Correct. | |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 13:09 - Jan 2 with 741 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 12:37 - Jan 2 by ElderGrizzly |
If by pretty quickly, you mean once it became public?
It was in guidance issued at the end of November |
Neither of the vaccines had been approved in November.
Do you have a link to this "guidance issued at the end of November"? I've linked the guidance by the JCVI which completely contradicts your earlier link from the NYT and the letter that the Chief Medical Officers of the UK, England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have put out.
Do you have anything from either of the above bodies in November that contradicts their current position? | |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 13:13 - Jan 2 with 733 views | J2BLUE |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 12:49 - Jan 2 by Ryorry |
That is so much the triumph of hope over experience - this gov have made a mess of almost everything they have been involved in this pandemic - allowing flights in without checks, PPE, track & trace, care home deaths, delays in lockdown, Uturns, schools fiasco etc.
Who are the medics who are advising Tony Blair?
I do hope you are right, but ... |
I disagree. I literally listed the points why. I completely acknowledge this government is useless and they won't be getting my vote at the next election but much of this has come directly from the manufacturers, the science/medical advisors etc etc. | |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 13:16 - Jan 2 with 731 views | J2BLUE |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 12:51 - Jan 2 by ElderGrizzly |
When i have half an hour I will.
My point, which a video won’t change, is the guidance was issued in November and today there has been public (Govt) comment on it.
I appreciate Doctors aren’t going to just inject anything into people, but until trials have been completed on a large scale we shouldn’t be doing any of it. |
The point I think people are missing is that the second dose for anyone who could potentially get a different second vaccine is at least 2 months away. It's not like they were planning to do this next week. There was always time for the guidance to develop and they are running trials. | |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 13:23 - Jan 2 with 714 views | Ryorry |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 13:13 - Jan 2 by J2BLUE |
I disagree. I literally listed the points why. I completely acknowledge this government is useless and they won't be getting my vote at the next election but much of this has come directly from the manufacturers, the science/medical advisors etc etc. |
The roll-out of actually prioritising, organising, and putting needles in arms isn't being done by the manufacturers or advisors though.
I'm quite jealous of your confidence. I suppose there's no profit in worrying/meeting trouble half-way though, just unnecessary stress. But the proof of the pudding will always be in the eating. If the govt. are going to get one thing right, let's hope it's this. | |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 13:32 - Jan 2 with 704 views | TractorWood |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 11:57 - Jan 2 by J2BLUE |
I think we'll do the 25m by the end of February. I realise that's a massive call, especially with this government but here's why:
1) 3.5m Oxford vaccine ready to go and 15m available after a two week batch check with more being made.
2) Pfizer say they have sent "millions" of doses to the UK. Millions could mean two, it could mean more but the exact quote was "in the millions" which would be a strange choice of language if it wasn't 3m+.
3) Pfizer and AstraZeneca have both said there is no supply problem
4) Tony Blair seems to know something we don't about the J&J vaccine and if we really do have that at the end of the month then that's another weapon in the arsenal. 250 army medic teams are on standby and can deliver 100,000 doses a day if needed.
5) Two million per week sounds a lot and the logistics will be very challenging but the actual delivery of these vaccines can be done. One surgery in Ipswich gave out 900 vaccines on December 23rd. 1000x1000=1 million. I'm sure we'll have more than 1000 sites up and running very soon including some which can vaccinate many thousand per day. The plans for Trinity Park sound like they are expecting to vaccinate a lot of people each day. Signing people up to manage queues and parking etc.
6) Matt Hancock says delivery will be limited only by supply. Yes, I know he's said a lot which isn't true but this does seem genuine when you look at the numbers.
I really do think there's quite a lot to be optimistic about. I know this government can't organise a piss up in a brewery but i'm hoping the medical officers and Oxford/AstraZeneca/Pfizer will take care of much of the logistics. |
Matt Hancock's words aren't worth the oxygen consumed in saying them.
I just can't see our stretched and underfunded public health service that is already at breaking point be able to deliver 2 million vaccines per week. Israel and Bahrain have had the vaccine for days and are charging ahead of us in terms of vaccinated people.
Hope I'm wrong but the massive wave we are seeing at the moment will protract the situation too through self isolation. I see France have only vaccinated 138 people though! [Post edited 2 Jan 2021 13:36]
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 14:09 - Jan 2 with 671 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 13:32 - Jan 2 by TractorWood |
Matt Hancock's words aren't worth the oxygen consumed in saying them.
I just can't see our stretched and underfunded public health service that is already at breaking point be able to deliver 2 million vaccines per week. Israel and Bahrain have had the vaccine for days and are charging ahead of us in terms of vaccinated people.
Hope I'm wrong but the massive wave we are seeing at the moment will protract the situation too through self isolation. I see France have only vaccinated 138 people though! [Post edited 2 Jan 2021 13:36]
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Germany gave 5 times the recommended dose to some of their care workers who then ended up in hospital and had though throw away over a thousand doses because they transported them in coolers normally used for picnics. | |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 14:10 - Jan 2 with 671 views | J2BLUE |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 13:23 - Jan 2 by Ryorry |
The roll-out of actually prioritising, organising, and putting needles in arms isn't being done by the manufacturers or advisors though.
I'm quite jealous of your confidence. I suppose there's no profit in worrying/meeting trouble half-way though, just unnecessary stress. But the proof of the pudding will always be in the eating. If the govt. are going to get one thing right, let's hope it's this. |
You don't think the medical advisors are having any say in prioritising and advising where the vaccines are most needed? | |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 14:12 - Jan 2 with 667 views | J2BLUE |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 13:32 - Jan 2 by TractorWood |
Matt Hancock's words aren't worth the oxygen consumed in saying them.
I just can't see our stretched and underfunded public health service that is already at breaking point be able to deliver 2 million vaccines per week. Israel and Bahrain have had the vaccine for days and are charging ahead of us in terms of vaccinated people.
Hope I'm wrong but the massive wave we are seeing at the moment will protract the situation too through self isolation. I see France have only vaccinated 138 people though! [Post edited 2 Jan 2021 13:36]
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Some people don't seem able to grasp the point that there's a big difference between the words of a politician and the words of a politician backed by evidence and confirmation from the likes of the suppliers. | |
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| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 14:14 - Jan 2 with 661 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 14:09 - Jan 2 by GlasgowBlue |
Germany gave 5 times the recommended dose to some of their care workers who then ended up in hospital and had though throw away over a thousand doses because they transported them in coolers normally used for picnics. |
"Over a thousand" in the scheme of millions of doses doesn't say much at all |  | | |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 14:36 - Jan 2 with 639 views | giant_stow |
| Vaccine process was just quietly changed by the Government on 13:23 - Jan 2 by Ryorry |
The roll-out of actually prioritising, organising, and putting needles in arms isn't being done by the manufacturers or advisors though.
I'm quite jealous of your confidence. I suppose there's no profit in worrying/meeting trouble half-way though, just unnecessary stress. But the proof of the pudding will always be in the eating. If the govt. are going to get one thing right, let's hope it's this. |
Won't it be the nhs and the civil service handling the mechanics of the vaccination programme, rather than the govt itself? |  |
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