| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? 08:45 - Jan 2 with 4709 views | GlasgowBlue |
Anyway. I was about to add this link to the thread.
If you want to see a bunch of selfish supper spreader pricks on New Year’s Eve, there they are in the link. I hope none of them do catch COVID as the likelihood is that they will then lass pass it on to some vulnerable b*goer who may well die. [Post edited 2 Jan 2021 8:48]
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| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 13:06 - Jan 2 with 1408 views | lowhouseblue |
| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 13:01 - Jan 2 by Herbivore |
A down arrow? Come on Lowie, it's not a hard question. What name did I call you? When you called me a tw@t previously that was name calling. If you asked me what name you called me I could straightforwardly respond and say you called me a tw@t. So tell me, what name have I called you? |
"More straw manning. More nonsense."
really, read your own posts. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 13:09 - Jan 2 with 1404 views | Guthrum |
| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 12:24 - Jan 2 by ElderGrizzly |
And there are people going into hospitals looking for a ‘hoax’.
Hospitals should be like zoos apparently, with the ill on display
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Somebody in Gloucester was arrested after trying to film empty wards.
According to a friend who works in another hospital, non-Covid areas are very quiet at the moment, as people are avoiding going in if at all possible. I imagine that's what these people are seeing, as I doubt they'd be allowed to wander around the Red Zones. |  |
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| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 13:17 - Jan 2 with 1383 views | Herbivore |
| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 13:06 - Jan 2 by lowhouseblue |
"More straw manning. More nonsense."
really, read your own posts. |
*Sigh*
Point out to me where in that quote I have called you a name. What name have I called you? I've asked you three times now, it's a really straightforward question that you can't answer. Calling someone a tw@t, as you have to me, is name calling. I can tell you what name you called me. What name have I called you? |  |
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| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 13:25 - Jan 2 with 1370 views | tractordownsouth |
| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 09:53 - Jan 2 by lowhouseblue |
the psychology of conspiracy nutters is fascinating. how does someone get to the point of demonstrating outside a hospital to accuse people who are dying of faking it? it's shows a remarkable degree of alienation from normal society. is it radicalisation or is it some sort of non-neurotypical thing? |
My view is that the people most prone to believing conspiracies are people that are dissatisfied with how their own lives are going. Therefore, to compensate for their low self-worth, they believe that they’re blessed with a particular sort of special information that nobody else possesses |  |
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| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 13:29 - Jan 2 with 1359 views | SpruceMoose |
| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 13:25 - Jan 2 by tractordownsouth |
My view is that the people most prone to believing conspiracies are people that are dissatisfied with how their own lives are going. Therefore, to compensate for their low self-worth, they believe that they’re blessed with a particular sort of special information that nobody else possesses |
A prime example of that would be the Brexiteers  |  |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 13:30 - Jan 2 with 1361 views | footers |
| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 13:25 - Jan 2 by tractordownsouth |
My view is that the people most prone to believing conspiracies are people that are dissatisfied with how their own lives are going. Therefore, to compensate for their low self-worth, they believe that they’re blessed with a particular sort of special information that nobody else possesses |
Someone I know has fallen down this particular rabbit hole lately. To put it politely, he doesn't have much going on in his life and was recently put out of part-time employment to boot. He seems to spend much of the day on the internet spouting off about covid, mainly because he's a) bored and b) wants to go on holiday without needing an injection. It's purely an excuse for his selfishness and a symptom of being bored stiff.
I would feel more sympathy for him, but it's so dangerous for public health. |  |
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| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 13:32 - Jan 2 with 1354 views | StokieBlue |
| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 11:48 - Jan 2 by Harry_Palmer |
"It takes some quite incredible mental reasoning to come to the conclusion that people are dying to promote a hoax"
I'd be surprised if these people hold quite that position to be honest. I suspect most of them are leaning towards the opinion that many of he people inside are either a) dying primarily of other serious illnesses that are being classed as covid due to a positive test result , or b) that they are regular flu cases that are being misdiagnosed as covid. These are two of the popular theories that seem to be doing the rounds anyway.
I should add that I am not endorsing either of those theories and the behaviour of this group outside the hospital is appalling and should be dealt with. I see no reason why the police shouldn't have been called to disperse the gathering and to issue fines. |
I know you're not endorsing those theories but both of those opinions are false and the second I one is just stupid. It's essentially saying that doctors can't tell the difference between flu and covid and totally ignores the fact that each gets diagnosed via different tests.
It's one of the stupidest things I've heard in a while.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 13:35 - Jan 2 with 1346 views | CrayonKing |
| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 12:21 - Jan 2 by Darth_Koont |
I don’t agree with Harry’s take on vaccines, although there is room to challenge the groupthink that can oversimplify public health responses.
But as someone who’s fallen victim to your hot takes and accusations on narratives that you are happy to just nod along to then you could do with a bit more self-awareness.
We ALL could do with checking our opinions and beliefs more often and I include myself in that. |
"We ALL could do with checking our opinions and beliefs more often and I include myself in that."
Spot on. In this case the "mental gear-changing" is a good thing and should be encouraged. Even if it wont change his view on vaccines (personal experience is a strong barrier to overcome) anybody would benefit from greater understanding of how they are being manipulated online.
We complain all the time about people falling down these rabbit holes, yet when someone shows signs of being able to climb back out half-the-time people just want to kick dirt at them and push them back down. |  | | |
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| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 13:45 - Jan 2 with 1326 views | Darth_Koont |
| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 13:35 - Jan 2 by CrayonKing |
"We ALL could do with checking our opinions and beliefs more often and I include myself in that."
Spot on. In this case the "mental gear-changing" is a good thing and should be encouraged. Even if it wont change his view on vaccines (personal experience is a strong barrier to overcome) anybody would benefit from greater understanding of how they are being manipulated online.
We complain all the time about people falling down these rabbit holes, yet when someone shows signs of being able to climb back out half-the-time people just want to kick dirt at them and push them back down. |
Yes, I think regularly stepping back and getting a bigger picture is key. If we value our opinions on their own merits rather than ego then we should welcome a reality check to strengthen those opinions and/or change them. And the same goes for others challenging them.
As for helping people out of a rabbit-hole or a very fixed way of thinking, I think that’s tougher. Surely that’s more about teaching the value of critical thought and the value of ideas/information as somehow bigger than yourself and your own experience? As well as teaching the danger of ideas and information that are about ignoring understanding rather than fostering it?
It’s a bigger social, cultural and educational problem to address I think. Although I think it’s one the younger generation is much better equipped to deal with. They’ve grown up with information and a world that is much, much bigger and more complex. But that’s a major contrast with the older generations that seem to use that new information to bunker down and reflect their narrower world view. [Post edited 2 Jan 2021 13:53]
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| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 15:11 - Jan 2 with 1255 views | lowhouseblue |
| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 13:25 - Jan 2 by tractordownsouth |
My view is that the people most prone to believing conspiracies are people that are dissatisfied with how their own lives are going. Therefore, to compensate for their low self-worth, they believe that they’re blessed with a particular sort of special information that nobody else possesses |
there's also an element of it being a complex and uncertain world and people feeling threatened by their own lack of agency. they find reassurance in imposing a simple narrative which places conscious control and blame with some evil 'them' rather than accepting that bad stuff happens through chance and complex mechanisms they can't easily affect. it gives them certainty where there otherwise isn't any. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 15:30 - Jan 2 with 1230 views | Guthrum |
| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 13:32 - Jan 2 by StokieBlue |
I know you're not endorsing those theories but both of those opinions are false and the second I one is just stupid. It's essentially saying that doctors can't tell the difference between flu and covid and totally ignores the fact that each gets diagnosed via different tests.
It's one of the stupidest things I've heard in a while.
SB |
One of the daftest ones, for me, is the idea that a wannabe totalitarian regime would force everyone to wear masks. Masks which make it much harder to identify and trace people and their associates, rendering facial recognition software virtually useless. One of the first things the Chinese authorities did in the face of the Hong Kong protests was to ban the wearing of masks. | |
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| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 15:48 - Jan 2 with 1205 views | Harry_Palmer |
| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 12:14 - Jan 2 by BlueBadger |
I'm just impressed at the mental gear changing involved in your though processes behind being intrigued to watch a documentary about the propagation of patently false nonsense and also being someone who peddles patently false nonsense with your endless anti-vax boll0cks. [Post edited 2 Jan 2021 12:14]
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And yet when challenged you aren't able to bring up any examples of the 'patently false nonsense' that you keep claiming I post.
The vaccine issue is way more complicated and nuanced than you would have people believe, unfortunately you appear to be too ignorant to debate the subject sensibly and refuse point blank to consider viewpoints or evidence that conflict with your own almost religious like belief system.
People do suffer at the hands of vaccines and there is clear irrefutable evidence of this which is why there is a legitimate conversation to be had.
I have asked you previously to put me on ignore if you can't debate my views in a reasonable manner, and yet here you are again coming after me in a completely un-related thread and making defamatory accusations that you can't back up. Probably best that you drop the obsession, others can see what you are doing and its not a great look to be honest. |  | | |
| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 15:51 - Jan 2 with 1198 views | bluelagos |
| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 09:53 - Jan 2 by lowhouseblue |
the psychology of conspiracy nutters is fascinating. how does someone get to the point of demonstrating outside a hospital to accuse people who are dying of faking it? it's shows a remarkable degree of alienation from normal society. is it radicalisation or is it some sort of non-neurotypical thing? |
So I was chatting to an old friend yesterday who seems to have gone full on anti-vax.
She was clear that CV was real, but wasn't willing to take the vaccine if/when it's available, choosing instead to isolate until it's gone and it's safe to get out of the house. She said she had literally been out of her house on just 4 occasions in the past 10 months.
Some things she said (I was in listening mode rather than challenging mode) included
1. Her mother had told her vaccinations are dangerous many years ago.
2. A friend (a nurse) told her that the Pfizer one was dangerous and to wait for the Oxford one.
3. Another friend had told her the same.
She then proceeded to tell me it can't be a coincidence that 3 separate sources had effectively told her the same thing so there had to be something in it. She was clearly ignoring the 100s of times / messages she will have heard that vaccinations are safe.
Her position wasn't one of wanting to be clever, different, wanting to push it onto me, it was quite simply that she was/is scared sh1tless of getting ill from the vaccination.
It was born from ignorance, paranoia and extreme anxiety in her case. Not sure how she is typical but her concerns were genuine, if ill founded. |  |
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| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 15:57 - Jan 2 with 1187 views | StokieBlue |
| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 15:51 - Jan 2 by bluelagos |
So I was chatting to an old friend yesterday who seems to have gone full on anti-vax.
She was clear that CV was real, but wasn't willing to take the vaccine if/when it's available, choosing instead to isolate until it's gone and it's safe to get out of the house. She said she had literally been out of her house on just 4 occasions in the past 10 months.
Some things she said (I was in listening mode rather than challenging mode) included
1. Her mother had told her vaccinations are dangerous many years ago.
2. A friend (a nurse) told her that the Pfizer one was dangerous and to wait for the Oxford one.
3. Another friend had told her the same.
She then proceeded to tell me it can't be a coincidence that 3 separate sources had effectively told her the same thing so there had to be something in it. She was clearly ignoring the 100s of times / messages she will have heard that vaccinations are safe.
Her position wasn't one of wanting to be clever, different, wanting to push it onto me, it was quite simply that she was/is scared sh1tless of getting ill from the vaccination.
It was born from ignorance, paranoia and extreme anxiety in her case. Not sure how she is typical but her concerns were genuine, if ill founded. |
That's sad and quite depressing.
I guess the message from all that is that the science isn't clear enough for many people and we need to find a way to make it clear and counter the ill-informed views which are easily found and absorbed across many platforms and the media.
Being worried about getting ill from a vaccine when there is an actual pandemic ravaging the world shows how easy it is to push these concerns in the right forums.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 16:01 - Jan 2 with 1173 views | Harry_Palmer |
| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 12:16 - Jan 2 by BlueBadger |
Oh, and using your desperately, desperately unlucky niece as an excuse continuing to do so if frankly, despicable. |
Sure it is, whereas your refusal to properly acknowledge that it happens and can destroy a young persons health, is the height of compassion and understanding. | | | |
| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 16:06 - Jan 2 with 1165 views | Dyland |
| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 09:53 - Jan 2 by lowhouseblue |
the psychology of conspiracy nutters is fascinating. how does someone get to the point of demonstrating outside a hospital to accuse people who are dying of faking it? it's shows a remarkable degree of alienation from normal society. is it radicalisation or is it some sort of non-neurotypical thing? |
It's stone cold empirical proof that if people are to get all their information solely from social media, then social media and the internet generally needs much better regulation. It's really depressing to see as plain as day that our awful institutional mainstream news outlets are actually relatively good at distributing truth and facts, whatever you think about each one and their agendas.
And/or, you know, have better state education (that goes for every country to varying degrees) so people are not such gobsmackingly thick cants. Or a chance at critical thinking at least. |  |
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| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 17:01 - Jan 2 with 1121 views | lowhouseblue |
| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 15:51 - Jan 2 by bluelagos |
So I was chatting to an old friend yesterday who seems to have gone full on anti-vax.
She was clear that CV was real, but wasn't willing to take the vaccine if/when it's available, choosing instead to isolate until it's gone and it's safe to get out of the house. She said she had literally been out of her house on just 4 occasions in the past 10 months.
Some things she said (I was in listening mode rather than challenging mode) included
1. Her mother had told her vaccinations are dangerous many years ago.
2. A friend (a nurse) told her that the Pfizer one was dangerous and to wait for the Oxford one.
3. Another friend had told her the same.
She then proceeded to tell me it can't be a coincidence that 3 separate sources had effectively told her the same thing so there had to be something in it. She was clearly ignoring the 100s of times / messages she will have heard that vaccinations are safe.
Her position wasn't one of wanting to be clever, different, wanting to push it onto me, it was quite simply that she was/is scared sh1tless of getting ill from the vaccination.
It was born from ignorance, paranoia and extreme anxiety in her case. Not sure how she is typical but her concerns were genuine, if ill founded. |
that is depressing. vaccines have always attracted concern - treatment while you're well is probably counter-intuitive to some. but that level of fear seems quite crippling. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 17:20 - Jan 2 with 1102 views | Dyland |
| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 13:25 - Jan 2 by tractordownsouth |
My view is that the people most prone to believing conspiracies are people that are dissatisfied with how their own lives are going. Therefore, to compensate for their low self-worth, they believe that they’re blessed with a particular sort of special information that nobody else possesses |
Recalls a passage in Umberto Eco's 'The Prague Cemetery' -
"Dumas had clearly an understanding of the human mind. What does everyone desire, and desire more fervently the more wretched and unfortunate they are? To earn money easily, to have power (the enormous pleasure in commanding and humiliating your fellow man) and to avenge every wrong suffered (everyone in life has suffered at least one wrong, however small it might be). And that is why in Monte Cristo he shows how to amass great wealth, enough to give you superhuman power, and how to make your enemies pay back every debt. But why, everybody asks, am I not blessed by fortune (or at least not as blessed as I would like to be)? Why have I not been favoured like others who are less deserving? As no one believes their misfortunes are attributable to any shortcomings of their own, that is why they must find a culprit. Dumas offers, to the frustration of everyone (individuals as well as countries), the explanation for their failure. It was someone else, on Thunder Mountain, who planned your ruin...
"On reflection, Dumas had invented nothing. He had simply put into story form what, according to my grandfather, Abbe Barruel had already shown. This led me to think, even then, that if I wanted to sell the story of a conspiracy, I didn't have to offer the buyer anything original, but simply something he already knew or could have found out more easily in other ways. People only believe what they already know, and this is the beauty of the Universal Form of Conspiracy."
It's a gloriously misanthropic and mischievous novel, highly recommended. And very pretentious er I mean intellectual :) | |
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| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 17:24 - Jan 2 with 1085 views | bluelagos |
| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 17:01 - Jan 2 by lowhouseblue |
that is depressing. vaccines have always attracted concern - treatment while you're well is probably counter-intuitive to some. but that level of fear seems quite crippling. |
I've spoken to 2 others who don't want the vaccine.
One is just a moron who spends too much time reading sh1te on the web. He told me he'd never take mNRA. Was tempted to ask him what mNRA was given he came across full on loon. But again I'll accept he was scared.
The other one was worried her kids could lose their fertility as this hadn't been tested. She said she'd reluctantly take it if it was adopted by the airlines as a condition of travel.
But having said all that, my understanding is the UK has far less vaccine refusniks than France or America, so hopefully we'll see high take ups. And after 6 months of vaccinations without major issues, am sure many initially scared will be more persuadable at that point. | |
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