| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? 08:45 - Jan 2 with 5447 views | GlasgowBlue |
Anyway. I was about to add this link to the thread.
If you want to see a bunch of selfish supper spreader pricks on New Year’s Eve, there they are in the link. I hope none of them do catch COVID as the likelihood is that they will then lass pass it on to some vulnerable b*goer who may well die. [Post edited 2 Jan 2021 8:48]
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| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 11:48 - Jan 2 with 1454 views | Harry_Palmer |
| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 10:04 - Jan 2 by StokieBlue |
It's an incredible interesting subject which unfortunately has real-world implications.
Conspiracy theories are awful because they prey on the human minds love of patterns. As long as something can be linked then people can often dismiss all the other information that undermines that linkage. After that is done anything else which comes to light which disproves the conspiracy is actually part of the conspiracy and thus can also easily be dismissed.
It's a self-reinforcing feedback loop which is why it's so hard for many to escape from it's clutches once they are reeled in.
In this particular instance it's even more incredible because as you say, the people are dying inside. It takes some quite incredible mental reasoning to come to the conclusion that people are dying to promote a hoax.
SB |
"It takes some quite incredible mental reasoning to come to the conclusion that people are dying to promote a hoax"
I'd be surprised if these people hold quite that position to be honest. I suspect most of them are leaning towards the opinion that many of he people inside are either a) dying primarily of other serious illnesses that are being classed as covid due to a positive test result , or b) that they are regular flu cases that are being misdiagnosed as covid. These are two of the popular theories that seem to be doing the rounds anyway.
I should add that I am not endorsing either of those theories and the behaviour of this group outside the hospital is appalling and should be dealt with. I see no reason why the police shouldn't have been called to disperse the gathering and to issue fines. |  | | |
| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 11:49 - Jan 2 with 1451 views | Harry_Palmer |
| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 10:47 - Jan 2 by BlueBadger |
Disease Enabler Harry being keen watching something on how people happily ignore facts to fall for dangerous and/or stupid conspiracy theories is quite possibly the greatest TWTD self-awareness failure ever. [Post edited 2 Jan 2021 10:52]
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Bluebadger in 'deliberately trying to drive a thread off topic in order to cause disagreement' shocker'.
Incidentally, I notice you didn't take me up on my offer to meet my vaccine injured niece? I am also still waiting for you to highlight examples of the lies and misinformation you claimed I was spreading in the same thread. Whenever you are ready. | | | |
| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 11:58 - Jan 2 with 1426 views | pointofblue |
That’s fine. Please could all those who attended that gathering contact their doctors and ask not to be treated if they do get this apparent fictitious disease? Or even be identified by CCTV and struck off the list that way.
As it’s fake this won’t have any affect on their wellbeing at all. |  |
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| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 12:02 - Jan 2 with 1412 views | lowhouseblue |
| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 10:52 - Jan 2 by Herbivore |
The government is happy to outright lie. That has been demonstrated numerous times. That you still can't see it puts you only half a step above the conspiracy theorists in the intellectual rigour stakes. |
labelling things you disagree with in politics as 'lies' is narrow and blinkered. it is part of the hollowing out of politics and reducing the space for legitimate disagreement and debate. the fact that you disagree with an opinion, or have yourself reached a different conclusion, doesn't make it a 'lie'. calling it a lie is an attempt to reduce complex, multi-dimensional questions and judgements down to simplistic right and wrong positions. it is part of the rotting of political discourse and in terms of intellectual rigour is right down there with shouting slogans.
if someone says "brexit will make us richer" and even quotes a figure for how much richer, then it's something i disagree with, i can put arguments to show the opposite, and through debate i would expect valid arguments to pile up against such an opinion. but it's not a'lie'. it's not an attempt to knowingly state a falsehood with the intention to mislead. it's a political opinion.
something amounts to a conspiracy theory when it relies on factual claims about past events - the twin towers were detonated, covid data has been falsified, the sandy hook victims were actors - with no credible evidence or foundation. comparing political opinions that you disagree with to conspiracy theories lacks all intellectual rigour. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 12:06 - Jan 2 with 1399 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
Idiots....who calls it supper anymore? |  |
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| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 12:09 - Jan 2 with 1391 views | m14_blue |
| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 12:02 - Jan 2 by lowhouseblue |
labelling things you disagree with in politics as 'lies' is narrow and blinkered. it is part of the hollowing out of politics and reducing the space for legitimate disagreement and debate. the fact that you disagree with an opinion, or have yourself reached a different conclusion, doesn't make it a 'lie'. calling it a lie is an attempt to reduce complex, multi-dimensional questions and judgements down to simplistic right and wrong positions. it is part of the rotting of political discourse and in terms of intellectual rigour is right down there with shouting slogans.
if someone says "brexit will make us richer" and even quotes a figure for how much richer, then it's something i disagree with, i can put arguments to show the opposite, and through debate i would expect valid arguments to pile up against such an opinion. but it's not a'lie'. it's not an attempt to knowingly state a falsehood with the intention to mislead. it's a political opinion.
something amounts to a conspiracy theory when it relies on factual claims about past events - the twin towers were detonated, covid data has been falsified, the sandy hook victims were actors - with no credible evidence or foundation. comparing political opinions that you disagree with to conspiracy theories lacks all intellectual rigour. |
Do you believe that Dominic Cummings drove to Barnard Castle in order to test his eyesight? | | | |
| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 12:11 - Jan 2 with 1384 views | Herbivore |
| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 12:02 - Jan 2 by lowhouseblue |
labelling things you disagree with in politics as 'lies' is narrow and blinkered. it is part of the hollowing out of politics and reducing the space for legitimate disagreement and debate. the fact that you disagree with an opinion, or have yourself reached a different conclusion, doesn't make it a 'lie'. calling it a lie is an attempt to reduce complex, multi-dimensional questions and judgements down to simplistic right and wrong positions. it is part of the rotting of political discourse and in terms of intellectual rigour is right down there with shouting slogans.
if someone says "brexit will make us richer" and even quotes a figure for how much richer, then it's something i disagree with, i can put arguments to show the opposite, and through debate i would expect valid arguments to pile up against such an opinion. but it's not a'lie'. it's not an attempt to knowingly state a falsehood with the intention to mislead. it's a political opinion.
something amounts to a conspiracy theory when it relies on factual claims about past events - the twin towers were detonated, covid data has been falsified, the sandy hook victims were actors - with no credible evidence or foundation. comparing political opinions that you disagree with to conspiracy theories lacks all intellectual rigour. |
You're straw manning here. I'm not talking about a conflict of views, I'm talking about demonstrable lies and misinformation. I think your position that politicians don't lie, it's merely disagreement over complex issues is actually far more dangerous, primarily because it is entirely ignorant of our political reality in recent times and legitimises this government's debasement of truth and honesty. |  |
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| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 12:11 - Jan 2 with 1384 views | Darth_Koont |
| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 12:02 - Jan 2 by lowhouseblue |
labelling things you disagree with in politics as 'lies' is narrow and blinkered. it is part of the hollowing out of politics and reducing the space for legitimate disagreement and debate. the fact that you disagree with an opinion, or have yourself reached a different conclusion, doesn't make it a 'lie'. calling it a lie is an attempt to reduce complex, multi-dimensional questions and judgements down to simplistic right and wrong positions. it is part of the rotting of political discourse and in terms of intellectual rigour is right down there with shouting slogans.
if someone says "brexit will make us richer" and even quotes a figure for how much richer, then it's something i disagree with, i can put arguments to show the opposite, and through debate i would expect valid arguments to pile up against such an opinion. but it's not a'lie'. it's not an attempt to knowingly state a falsehood with the intention to mislead. it's a political opinion.
something amounts to a conspiracy theory when it relies on factual claims about past events - the twin towers were detonated, covid data has been falsified, the sandy hook victims were actors - with no credible evidence or foundation. comparing political opinions that you disagree with to conspiracy theories lacks all intellectual rigour. |
“it's not an attempt to knowingly state a falsehood with the intention to mislead. it's a political opinion.”
What on earth is a “political opinion”? And why can they so easily be equated with “an attempt to knowingly state a falsehood with the intention to mislead”?
Politicians don’t just have a duty to politics and their parties. They have a duty to represent citizens and, in the case of a government, lead a country. Justifying stuff on former grounds and ignoring the latter is why our politics and government isn’t fit for its REAL purpose. |  |
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| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 12:11 - Jan 2 with 1379 views | lowhouseblue |
| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 11:00 - Jan 2 by Swansea_Blue |
Both need dealing with. It’ll probably need different approaches, but it all contributes to the distrust of institutions. Indeed this government and the people in it have a track record of attacking UK institutions, from Parliament to the judiciary.
It’s got nothing to do with the false equivalence issue of beliefs. It’s about stamping out lies and misinformation wherever they occur, be it from a lone nutter flat Earther sitting in his pants infront of a computer in his bedroom, right through to the brazen lies told daily by government ministers and their supporting journalists. They’re different things of course, but all part of the same problem. |
sorry i replied fully to a previous post.
political opinions which are different to your own are not "brazen lies told daily by government ministers and their supporting journalists". politics is about disagreements, and attempting to narrow down what is a legitimate opinion, rather than a 'lie', is very dangerous. if people do the same to your opinions then all we have is slogans and name calling. politics doesn't lead to objective factual conclusions - there is very little in the way of simple right and wrong. it is complex and multi-dimensional and the best you can aim for is where the arguments in favour of one position persuade more people than the arguments in favour the alternative position. persuasion through debate - not lies and truth.
anyway, we've been here before, and it's saturday morning. so I'll leave you to disagree. but neither of us has lied. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 12:14 - Jan 2 with 1377 views | BlueBadger |
| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 11:49 - Jan 2 by Harry_Palmer |
Bluebadger in 'deliberately trying to drive a thread off topic in order to cause disagreement' shocker'.
Incidentally, I notice you didn't take me up on my offer to meet my vaccine injured niece? I am also still waiting for you to highlight examples of the lies and misinformation you claimed I was spreading in the same thread. Whenever you are ready. |
I'm just impressed at the mental gear changing involved in your though processes behind being intrigued to watch a documentary about the propagation of patently false nonsense and also being someone who peddles patently false nonsense with your endless anti-vax boll0cks. [Post edited 2 Jan 2021 12:14]
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| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 12:16 - Jan 2 with 1367 views | BlueBadger |
| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 12:14 - Jan 2 by BlueBadger |
I'm just impressed at the mental gear changing involved in your though processes behind being intrigued to watch a documentary about the propagation of patently false nonsense and also being someone who peddles patently false nonsense with your endless anti-vax boll0cks. [Post edited 2 Jan 2021 12:14]
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Oh, and using your desperately, desperately unlucky niece as an excuse continuing to do so if frankly, despicable. | |
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| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 12:21 - Jan 2 with 1359 views | Darth_Koont |
| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 12:14 - Jan 2 by BlueBadger |
I'm just impressed at the mental gear changing involved in your though processes behind being intrigued to watch a documentary about the propagation of patently false nonsense and also being someone who peddles patently false nonsense with your endless anti-vax boll0cks. [Post edited 2 Jan 2021 12:14]
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I don’t agree with Harry’s take on vaccines, although there is room to challenge the groupthink that can oversimplify public health responses.
But as someone who’s fallen victim to your hot takes and accusations on narratives that you are happy to just nod along to then you could do with a bit more self-awareness.
We ALL could do with checking our opinions and beliefs more often and I include myself in that. | |
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| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 12:22 - Jan 2 with 1352 views | lowhouseblue |
| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 12:11 - Jan 2 by Herbivore |
You're straw manning here. I'm not talking about a conflict of views, I'm talking about demonstrable lies and misinformation. I think your position that politicians don't lie, it's merely disagreement over complex issues is actually far more dangerous, primarily because it is entirely ignorant of our political reality in recent times and legitimises this government's debasement of truth and honesty. |
you do it again. "demonstrable lies and misinformation" is based on your own opinion. there are VERY few examples of "demonstrable lies and misinformation" which have been objectively established from this or any other UK government. your desire to label things you personally disagree with as lies is in itself pure politics. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 12:24 - Jan 2 with 1345 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 09:18 - Jan 2 by GlasgowBlue |
The fact that they are gathering outside a hospital where people are fighting for their lives, and NHS workers are going above and beyond in an effort to keep people alive, makes them even bigger c*nts than if they were holding their pathetic gathering outside of Parliament. |
And there are people going into hospitals looking for a ‘hoax’.
Hospitals should be like zoos apparently, with the ill on display
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| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 12:29 - Jan 2 with 1327 views | BlueBadger |
| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 12:22 - Jan 2 by lowhouseblue |
you do it again. "demonstrable lies and misinformation" is based on your own opinion. there are VERY few examples of "demonstrable lies and misinformation" which have been objectively established from this or any other UK government. your desire to label things you personally disagree with as lies is in itself pure politics. |
I suspect I could probably look at BBC news right now and find an example of daomstratable, proven lie that a government minister is spouting. | |
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| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 12:29 - Jan 2 with 1325 views | Herbivore |
| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 12:22 - Jan 2 by lowhouseblue |
you do it again. "demonstrable lies and misinformation" is based on your own opinion. there are VERY few examples of "demonstrable lies and misinformation" which have been objectively established from this or any other UK government. your desire to label things you personally disagree with as lies is in itself pure politics. |
Jesus wept. More straw manning. More nonsense. | |
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| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 12:32 - Jan 2 with 1302 views | lowhouseblue |
| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 12:29 - Jan 2 by Herbivore |
Jesus wept. More straw manning. More nonsense. |
more name calling. no content. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 12:32 - Jan 2 with 1300 views | lowhouseblue |
| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 12:29 - Jan 2 by BlueBadger |
I suspect I could probably look at BBC news right now and find an example of daomstratable, proven lie that a government minister is spouting. |
go on then. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 12:44 - Jan 2 with 1266 views | Herbivore |
| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 12:32 - Jan 2 by lowhouseblue |
more name calling. no content. |
What name have I called you here? Is your claim of name calling a lie or merely a disagreement? You don't seem to have a great grasp of which is which so I'm trying to gauge your level of comprehension. [Post edited 2 Jan 2021 12:48]
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| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 12:46 - Jan 2 with 1264 views | lowhouseblue |
"business will be better off" is clearly a political opinion. there are pluses and minuses for business and this guy believes the pluses will be greater. paperwork is a minus I guess. he probably believes that lots of the pluses are longer-term. calling this "a demonstrable, proven lie" is a bit weird.
i disagree with him and think he is wrong. it doesn't make him a liar. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 12:50 - Jan 2 with 1245 views | lowhouseblue |
| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 12:44 - Jan 2 by Herbivore |
What name have I called you here? Is your claim of name calling a lie or merely a disagreement? You don't seem to have a great grasp of which is which so I'm trying to gauge your level of comprehension. [Post edited 2 Jan 2021 12:48]
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"More straw manning. More nonsense."
you should read your own posts. my comprehension is very good thanks. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 12:50 - Jan 2 with 1241 views | Herbivore |
| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 12:50 - Jan 2 by lowhouseblue |
"More straw manning. More nonsense."
you should read your own posts. my comprehension is very good thanks. |
So what name have I called you there? | |
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| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 12:57 - Jan 2 with 1225 views | BlueBadger |
| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 12:46 - Jan 2 by lowhouseblue |
"business will be better off" is clearly a political opinion. there are pluses and minuses for business and this guy believes the pluses will be greater. paperwork is a minus I guess. he probably believes that lots of the pluses are longer-term. calling this "a demonstrable, proven lie" is a bit weird.
i disagree with him and think he is wrong. it doesn't make him a liar. |
He's a Brexiteer. He's a liar. | |
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| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 13:01 - Jan 2 with 1198 views | Herbivore |
| Have we lost our first thread of 2021? on 12:50 - Jan 2 by Herbivore |
So what name have I called you there? |
A down arrow? Come on Lowie, it's not a hard question. What name did I call you? When you called me a tw@t previously that was name calling. If you asked me what name you called me I could straightforwardly respond and say you called me a tw@t. So tell me, what name have I called you? | |
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