| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 21:17 - Jan 14 with 5857 views | Dubtractor |
Surprise! They are looking to roll back workers rights and protections.
Who'd have predicted that this would happen........
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| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 10:47 - Jan 15 with 643 views | monytowbray |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 09:14 - Jan 15 by Dubtractor |
The superiority complex isn't a good look mate. |
Okay we’ll just carry on pretending these people still have “very real concerns” we should humour.
Or we can start, ya know, getting them to own their sh1t. |  |
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| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 10:47 - Jan 15 with 643 views | monytowbray |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 09:26 - Jan 15 by Swansea_Blue |
I'm not sure they could have stopped the tide, irrespective of who was the leader. This has been building for years with the support of lot of the media, the platforming of fringe right wingers for 'balance' on TV, etc.
Populism and post-truth, tribal politics it's extremely powerful. We've seen a rise in it in a lot of countries. The tide might be turning now as people seem to be recognising that 'popular' leaders built on a throne of lies may not be very good at the boring, detailed job of running a country. But at the time 4-5 years ago, I suspect people were too swayed by the heady promises. I may well be wrong of course and we'll never know. |
But. The. Left. | |
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| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 10:49 - Jan 15 with 636 views | monytowbray |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 09:47 - Jan 15 by footers |
There were many Labour MPs who wanted to leave. In fact, we were told by many people that we would be abandoning those voters, mainly in the North, if we ignored their wishes to leave, so what was the party meant to do?
The Leave campaign campaigned to leave and Remain to remain. You're upset at the Remain campaign not giving enough positives. That is the fault of Cameron and others, not the Labour party as a whole. |
Amazes me how many people still blame Labour for Leave winning.
I’ll say it again. Bannon and Mercer. Any other opinion proves they won and are still winning.
People need their heads shaking. | |
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| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 10:56 - Jan 15 with 616 views | monytowbray |
Ha.
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| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 11:00 - Jan 15 with 610 views | MattinLondon |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 10:49 - Jan 15 by monytowbray |
Amazes me how many people still blame Labour for Leave winning.
I’ll say it again. Bannon and Mercer. Any other opinion proves they won and are still winning.
People need their heads shaking. |
But Corbyn wasn’t the most enthusiastic remain campaigner was he? At one stage he stated that he was 75% in favour of remaining. Hardly a ringing endorsement of the EU. I’m not saying that he is to blame for remain losing - because he wasn’t. But he could have helped out more. |  | | |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 11:06 - Jan 15 with 594 views | Darth_Koont |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 10:49 - Jan 15 by monytowbray |
Amazes me how many people still blame Labour for Leave winning.
I’ll say it again. Bannon and Mercer. Any other opinion proves they won and are still winning.
People need their heads shaking. |
Extreme centrists will always blame the left more than the right.
They know that a left critique has them banged to rights for what’s happened in this country and how we reached this point.
Sure, there’s disaster capitalists, populist xenophobes and proto-fascists like Mercer, Farage and Bannon looking to capitalise but they needed a weak, divided society. Over decades we’ve become extremely vulnerable when the status quo is propped up and defended by soft Establishment careerists in politics and the media (and indeed voters) that have made themselves eminently comfortable on the right side of the widening gap. |  |
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| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 11:08 - Jan 15 with 586 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 09:06 - Jan 15 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
They are complicit.
They could have been in power now, had they not wasted the last 5 years when the lunatics took over the asylum. |
If the electorate had voted in Labour when they had a 'moderate' leader in 2015, the lunatics would not been running the asylum in the first place. |  | | |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 11:34 - Jan 15 with 543 views | monytowbray |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 11:00 - Jan 15 by MattinLondon |
But Corbyn wasn’t the most enthusiastic remain campaigner was he? At one stage he stated that he was 75% in favour of remaining. Hardly a ringing endorsement of the EU. I’m not saying that he is to blame for remain losing - because he wasn’t. But he could have helped out more. |
He wasn’t. But when truth and expert opinion gets overwritten by nationalism, something the Brits are evidently easily suckered into, it’s hard to cut through that noise.
If anyone is looking at Corbyn, Labour, Cameron or the lazy generalisation of “The Left” as the reason Brexit won then they need to think bigger and go further up the chain. As mentioned previously, that chain starts somewhere around Mercer, Bannon and money from other nations who don’t have the West’s best interests at heart.
Historians will say WWIII (or at least a new Cold War) started in 2014, and was fought for a large part without a direct shot being fired at any military. It’s espionage - get a nation to tear itself apart from afar and fan the flames.
I’d also argue, although much of the rivalries do stem from borders and power hungry leaders, the most common denominator of sides is actually Authoritarian vs Democracy and/or oligarchs vs the 99%.
Get those who want more power at any cost and those who want more money at any cost in a room together and they’ll throw any morals out the window to get it.
Party politics is virtually useless right now, we are at war with our rights to our data and factual information. | |
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| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 11:38 - Jan 15 with 535 views | monytowbray |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 11:08 - Jan 15 by Clapham_Junction |
If the electorate had voted in Labour when they had a 'moderate' leader in 2015, the lunatics would not been running the asylum in the first place. |
The reinvention of centre right Labour is hilarious. They forget they lost 2 elections prior to Corbyn and without the self-sabotage of 2017 we may have a government with more value on humans over profit right now.
I wonder how these people will claim they voted in 50 years when we’re running out of food on a dying planet? | |
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| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 11:52 - Jan 15 with 508 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 11:38 - Jan 15 by monytowbray |
The reinvention of centre right Labour is hilarious. They forget they lost 2 elections prior to Corbyn and without the self-sabotage of 2017 we may have a government with more value on humans over profit right now.
I wonder how these people will claim they voted in 50 years when we’re running out of food on a dying planet? |
Ed Milliband was certainly “moderate” and the press he got was unfair.
But if you think Ed Milliband was right-wing, you just be somewhere left of Lenin. |  | | |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 12:21 - Jan 15 with 476 views | tractordownsouth |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 10:17 - Jan 15 by You_Bloo_Right |
In these circumstances doesn't one need to distinguish between Cameron as PM and de facto leader of the Conservatives and Cameron as assigned leader of the remain campaign?
And obviously, on the wider front, stop conflating Tory with Leave and Labour with Remain (despite whatever the majority positions in each of those parties may have been)?
The whole campaign from Remain and subsequent negotiations by successive governments were a sh1tshow and the reality promises to be much the same.
I get that a Lib Dem supporter might want to adopt a holier than thou position as the party unified itself around a remain position but following some of the logic displayed on here one could equally blame the Lib Dem party for not securing their manifesto promise of PR which, had they succeeded, may have consigned UKIP to the fringes of national politics and averted a referendum on our continued membership of the EU. (Of course it may also have opened the door to PM Farage.) |
PR would have helped UKIP - they'd have won 80 seats in 2015 with a purely proportional system. |  |
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| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 12:23 - Jan 15 with 470 views | tractordownsouth |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 11:38 - Jan 15 by monytowbray |
The reinvention of centre right Labour is hilarious. They forget they lost 2 elections prior to Corbyn and without the self-sabotage of 2017 we may have a government with more value on humans over profit right now.
I wonder how these people will claim they voted in 50 years when we’re running out of food on a dying planet? |
Still going with the self sabotage conspiracy? | |
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| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 12:23 - Jan 15 with 470 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 12:21 - Jan 15 by tractordownsouth |
PR would have helped UKIP - they'd have won 80 seats in 2015 with a purely proportional system. |
Blimey - that’s a scary thought. | | | |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 12:34 - Jan 15 with 449 views | giant_stow |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 11:06 - Jan 15 by Darth_Koont |
Extreme centrists will always blame the left more than the right.
They know that a left critique has them banged to rights for what’s happened in this country and how we reached this point.
Sure, there’s disaster capitalists, populist xenophobes and proto-fascists like Mercer, Farage and Bannon looking to capitalise but they needed a weak, divided society. Over decades we’ve become extremely vulnerable when the status quo is propped up and defended by soft Establishment careerists in politics and the media (and indeed voters) that have made themselves eminently comfortable on the right side of the widening gap. |
Loving your new 'extreme centrists' angle - its got another outing today! |  |
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| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 12:34 - Jan 15 with 449 views | itfcjoe |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 11:38 - Jan 15 by monytowbray |
The reinvention of centre right Labour is hilarious. They forget they lost 2 elections prior to Corbyn and without the self-sabotage of 2017 we may have a government with more value on humans over profit right now.
I wonder how these people will claim they voted in 50 years when we’re running out of food on a dying planet? |
You realise it was Ed Miliband in charge of Labour in 2015 and not David Miliband?
Just a rewrite of history to classify Ed Miliband as 'centre-right' |  |
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| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 12:39 - Jan 15 with 442 views | m14_blue |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 11:38 - Jan 15 by monytowbray |
The reinvention of centre right Labour is hilarious. They forget they lost 2 elections prior to Corbyn and without the self-sabotage of 2017 we may have a government with more value on humans over profit right now.
I wonder how these people will claim they voted in 50 years when we’re running out of food on a dying planet? |
When you treat the centre and right of the Labour Party as the enemy, the only people who gain is the actual right. | | | |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 12:40 - Jan 15 with 441 views | You_Bloo_Right |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 12:23 - Jan 15 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Blimey - that’s a scary thought. |
I assume that's calculated on proportion of the vote so, depending on both the PR system adopted and how it may have been applied (allowance for both a national and constituency based PR system - if that is even workable) probably less than 80 in reality.
The thing is though would 80 UKIP MPs of a total cohort of 650 be any more scary than where we are now? |  |
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| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 12:44 - Jan 15 with 434 views | giant_stow |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 12:39 - Jan 15 by m14_blue |
When you treat the centre and right of the Labour Party as the enemy, the only people who gain is the actual right. |
I can see why that option appeals though, given the alternative. | |
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| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 12:54 - Jan 15 with 417 views | monytowbray |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 11:52 - Jan 15 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Ed Milliband was certainly “moderate” and the press he got was unfair.
But if you think Ed Milliband was right-wing, you just be somewhere left of Lenin. |
Milliband was centre right at a push but he’s certainly not left wing. | |
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| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 12:55 - Jan 15 with 413 views | monytowbray |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 12:23 - Jan 15 by tractordownsouth |
Still going with the self sabotage conspiracy? |
Yes, because evidence is there. Leaked messages, budget allocations, etc.
It’s not a conspiracy, it happened, regardless of how much importance you place on it in the scheme of things.
Difference was the Tories rallied around one cry. | |
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| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 12:56 - Jan 15 with 410 views | Churchman |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 11:00 - Jan 15 by MattinLondon |
But Corbyn wasn’t the most enthusiastic remain campaigner was he? At one stage he stated that he was 75% in favour of remaining. Hardly a ringing endorsement of the EU. I’m not saying that he is to blame for remain losing - because he wasn’t. But he could have helped out more. |
Corbyn was for leave, just as Michael Foot and Tony Benn were in the 70s. So was a good chunk of the Labour Party in addition to the tories. They were both split. The reality is that oily Cameron refused any work to be done on the impact of leaving before the vote. Plenty of people wanted to do the work, but for whatever reason it was turned down flat.
Nobody had the faintest idea what’d happen if the vote was leave. It never entered the remainders heads that this might happen and that explains why the ineptitude of the leave campaign was even worse than May’s in 2017, possibly the worst ever. We then had to find out how trade worked with the EU from volumes through to processes and rules. Having been involved in it, this is fact not opinion.
I accepted the democratic will of the majority of voters to leave in 2016. Anything else and you are in Trump territory. But once the final alternatives and impacts were known, I would have been in favour of a further referendum so that people could express will on the basis of what was known, not just sentiment.
But of course, it’s too late now. Things will settle down and patterns of trade will change. I think the approach of the EU means short term pain for the U.K. including higher prices and a lot of lost jobs, but long term detriment to the EU as the UKs patterns of trade changes. The countries are actually about people, their families and their work. The idiot in No 10 and the idiots in Brussels, Paris etc seem to forget that as they wrap themselves in flags and puff their egos whist stopping people earning a living. [Post edited 15 Jan 2021 13:04]
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| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 12:57 - Jan 15 with 410 views | monytowbray |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 12:34 - Jan 15 by itfcjoe |
You realise it was Ed Miliband in charge of Labour in 2015 and not David Miliband?
Just a rewrite of history to classify Ed Miliband as 'centre-right' |
No, the historic change well before that was the moving of the centre point between left and right.
It’s done much to surpress worker’s rights and unionisation. Maggie was proud. | |
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| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 12:57 - Jan 15 with 407 views | Darth_Koont |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 12:34 - Jan 15 by giant_stow |
Loving your new 'extreme centrists' angle - its got another outing today! |
It’s not an angle.
These are people in politics and the media who have shaped the debate and the establishment-approved opposition over the past 30-40 years. The sort of fools that have so little grasp of what’s going on, but are so sure of their right to commentate on it and police the debate, that they can help the country move towards a hard Brexit only a tiny percentage of nutters ever wanted. Who can let Scotland all but leave the union because they know what’s best.
By all means keep telling yourself that these people aren’t working for themselves but for the interests of ordinary people. And they’re not exactly the same as the people on the other side of the aisle. | |
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| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 13:00 - Jan 15 with 400 views | monytowbray |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 12:39 - Jan 15 by m14_blue |
When you treat the centre and right of the Labour Party as the enemy, the only people who gain is the actual right. |
Why do the left constantly have to compromise for the centre though? How about the centralists own their part in fence sitting and grow a backbone about their role in inequality, environmental destruction and institutional racism?
It’s not so much I dislike such views but the fact we’ve had 40 years of disaster capitalism now and it’s got us here. Floating the centre isn’t sustainable for our planet, radical change is needed. | |
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| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 13:05 - Jan 15 with 389 views | Darth_Koont |
| Brexit will be sh1t part 27534563 on 12:54 - Jan 15 by monytowbray |
Milliband was centre right at a push but he’s certainly not left wing. |
Indeed.
It’s a function of a predominantly right-wing media in the UK that our Overton window is a fair bit to the right of the rest of Western Europe. And even the acceptable “left” isn’t allowed to promote impactful social policy and address structural issues.
Well, we’re reaping what we sow. | |
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