| Couple of concerns on Cook strategy 08:06 - May 22 with 5183 views | unstableblue |
Obviously I like Cook and what he has to say, desperately want him to succeed, and know we need a complete reset at Town on and off the pitch.
But a few niggles…
Wilson stating “When the new manager [Paul Cook] came in he said pretty early that he wanted his own players and he was very honest about it.” - how early was that? Cook needed to come in and galvanise the team, put some incremental changes to system and selection and win TWO, yes 2, more than we did. And it’s the play-off lottery. Why talk about bringing in his own players until the season was over?! Listening to Blackpool players last night saying that Critchley is so clear in tactics it’s easy and always gets then right! The end of campaign was a disaster here.
Telling every player to go and get a new club ahead of the new season?! Would you not give Downes or a Dobra a chance? Can you really source a player better than Downes? Is it notvthat he needs managing and coaching? More worryingly with two key targets seemingly lost…. Can we actually bring in 15-20 players?! Is it physically possible? And if you’ve told all the players they’re not good enough what’s plan B if we can’t.
I’m sure and hope I’ll be eating my own words on this, and his a track record of large scale change at Pompey.
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| Couple of concerns on Cook strategy on 08:18 - May 22 with 3714 views | saffers12 |
Outside looking in, I feel the same but trust 100% but have worries about the strategy, I suppose all we can do is sit and wait, fingers crossed
There was a few good discussion on the board around this issue yesterday and I think your post sums up the mood, excited but clearly nervous |  | | |
| Couple of concerns on Cook strategy on 08:27 - May 22 with 3668 views | unstableblue |
| Couple of concerns on Cook strategy on 08:18 - May 22 by saffers12 |
Outside looking in, I feel the same but trust 100% but have worries about the strategy, I suppose all we can do is sit and wait, fingers crossed
There was a few good discussion on the board around this issue yesterday and I think your post sums up the mood, excited but clearly nervous |
I think the positive is that there seems to be a lot of players available and on the market this summer; but as Ian Atkins said in commentary (who’s worked with Cook) It’s very hard to get necessary quality in one or two transfer windows. It’s important not to go for 2nd/3rd choices.
So I think fans are going to have to very patient. This is a long term project.
But again that’s the strategy cocncern, I’m convinced they Downes, Dozzell, Wolf and Dobra are ready for their best seasons, if surrounded by better quality. Why rip it completely apart. | |
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| Couple of concerns on Cook strategy on 08:30 - May 22 with 3653 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
Who's to say what was actually said though?
Perhaps he's said "If you lot keep playing like that I'll have to bring my own players in".. we dont know, were just 2nd guessing.
Benefit of the doubt now. Complain if it goes belly up |  |
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| Couple of concerns on Cook strategy on 08:30 - May 22 with 3649 views | saffers12 |
| Couple of concerns on Cook strategy on 08:27 - May 22 by unstableblue |
I think the positive is that there seems to be a lot of players available and on the market this summer; but as Ian Atkins said in commentary (who’s worked with Cook) It’s very hard to get necessary quality in one or two transfer windows. It’s important not to go for 2nd/3rd choices.
So I think fans are going to have to very patient. This is a long term project.
But again that’s the strategy cocncern, I’m convinced they Downes, Dozzell, Wolf and Dobra are ready for their best seasons, if surrounded by better quality. Why rip it completely apart. |
Agree about current players but no to dozzell fore, clearly doesn't fit into PCs system, rest I agree with good players around would do well | | | |
| Couple of concerns on Cook strategy on 08:36 - May 22 with 3608 views | Keaneish |
Wilson also said, "this club wasn't ready to get promoted", which was the headline of the article and he's fundamentally right. Going up this season would have been terrible so clamouring for the play-offs is a complete misnomer when the infrastructure of this club needs a complete rebuild first in my view.
As for communicating that all players can get a new club, the shock to the system is what is required to awake this slumber. Clearly and very obviously not all players are leaving. This is another test, another test so see what players want to be here, what agents have the club's back and can be trusted and most importantly, a test to show players their true market worth as a reality check after a dreadful season to bring their egos in check and focus them ahead of a new campaign.
Is it high-risk? Potentially but good luck to PC; It's refreshing, honest and nips any kind of apathy, player or agent power in the bud. |  |
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| Couple of concerns on Cook strategy on 08:38 - May 22 with 3595 views | thebooks |
I agree. I would have liked a “not sure” option in the questionnaire when asked whether I thought Cook was the right choice going forward.
I did rate his performance last season as “very poor”, because 4 wins from 16 with our squad is exactly that. To not get in the play-offs was a simple failure, regardless of all the noise about the losing mentality of the squad.
To basically say players like Downes and Dozzell can FO if they want to doesn’t sit well with me, regardless of whether it’s the “Ipswich way” or not. Are we really saying we can’t do anything with them at all? That we can just get better players by going out and buying them?
Our fans have been clamouring for the club to “give the youths a chance” for years, but when it does happen we’re then happy for that approach to be torn up? (I think you might have described that as “unseemly”, which I think is right.)
Apart from anything, this strikes me as bad strategy — it’s expensive and puts a huge amount of pressure on signing lots of new, good quality players from scratch. Our record of signings over the last few seasons has been diabolical — are we able to change that in a few months?
But like you say, we can only assume there are plans in place, 9 or so new good players lined up and we’ll have forgotten any concerns this time next year. |  | | |
| Couple of concerns on Cook strategy on 08:45 - May 22 with 3523 views | unstableblue |
| Couple of concerns on Cook strategy on 08:30 - May 22 by BlueandTruesince82 |
Who's to say what was actually said though?
Perhaps he's said "If you lot keep playing like that I'll have to bring my own players in".. we dont know, were just 2nd guessing.
Benefit of the doubt now. Complain if it goes belly up |
You could be right; the press certainly reported it differently:
“Following a series of meetings on Monday, Cook has encouraged almost his entire squad to find new clubs this summer.
That includes many players who are under contract for extended periods, such as homegrown youngsters Flynn Downes, Andre Dozzell, Luke Woolfenden, Jack Lankester and Armando Dobra.
The list of players instructed to find new clubs also includes Teddy Bishop, despite the fact he triggered an extended stay in recent weeks, as well as left-back Myles Kenlock and goalkeepers Tomas Holy and David Cornell. ” | |
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| Couple of concerns on Cook strategy on 08:45 - May 22 with 3517 views | saffers12 |
| Couple of concerns on Cook strategy on 08:38 - May 22 by thebooks |
I agree. I would have liked a “not sure” option in the questionnaire when asked whether I thought Cook was the right choice going forward.
I did rate his performance last season as “very poor”, because 4 wins from 16 with our squad is exactly that. To not get in the play-offs was a simple failure, regardless of all the noise about the losing mentality of the squad.
To basically say players like Downes and Dozzell can FO if they want to doesn’t sit well with me, regardless of whether it’s the “Ipswich way” or not. Are we really saying we can’t do anything with them at all? That we can just get better players by going out and buying them?
Our fans have been clamouring for the club to “give the youths a chance” for years, but when it does happen we’re then happy for that approach to be torn up? (I think you might have described that as “unseemly”, which I think is right.)
Apart from anything, this strikes me as bad strategy — it’s expensive and puts a huge amount of pressure on signing lots of new, good quality players from scratch. Our record of signings over the last few seasons has been diabolical — are we able to change that in a few months?
But like you say, we can only assume there are plans in place, 9 or so new good players lined up and we’ll have forgotten any concerns this time next year. |
You have summed up my thoughts exactly
Our transfer record over many years has been 20/25% successful at best, when you think of Blackpool for example they do much better, signings can be slightly a lottery but we must get better | | | |
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| Couple of concerns on Cook strategy on 08:45 - May 22 with 3519 views | thebooks |
| Couple of concerns on Cook strategy on 08:36 - May 22 by Keaneish |
Wilson also said, "this club wasn't ready to get promoted", which was the headline of the article and he's fundamentally right. Going up this season would have been terrible so clamouring for the play-offs is a complete misnomer when the infrastructure of this club needs a complete rebuild first in my view.
As for communicating that all players can get a new club, the shock to the system is what is required to awake this slumber. Clearly and very obviously not all players are leaving. This is another test, another test so see what players want to be here, what agents have the club's back and can be trusted and most importantly, a test to show players their true market worth as a reality check after a dreadful season to bring their egos in check and focus them ahead of a new campaign.
Is it high-risk? Potentially but good luck to PC; It's refreshing, honest and nips any kind of apathy, player or agent power in the bud. |
You could rebuild the structure in the Championship. You’d have more money and could attract better players. | | | |
| Couple of concerns on Cook strategy on 08:57 - May 22 with 3420 views | unstableblue |
| Couple of concerns on Cook strategy on 08:38 - May 22 by thebooks |
I agree. I would have liked a “not sure” option in the questionnaire when asked whether I thought Cook was the right choice going forward.
I did rate his performance last season as “very poor”, because 4 wins from 16 with our squad is exactly that. To not get in the play-offs was a simple failure, regardless of all the noise about the losing mentality of the squad.
To basically say players like Downes and Dozzell can FO if they want to doesn’t sit well with me, regardless of whether it’s the “Ipswich way” or not. Are we really saying we can’t do anything with them at all? That we can just get better players by going out and buying them?
Our fans have been clamouring for the club to “give the youths a chance” for years, but when it does happen we’re then happy for that approach to be torn up? (I think you might have described that as “unseemly”, which I think is right.)
Apart from anything, this strikes me as bad strategy — it’s expensive and puts a huge amount of pressure on signing lots of new, good quality players from scratch. Our record of signings over the last few seasons has been diabolical — are we able to change that in a few months?
But like you say, we can only assume there are plans in place, 9 or so new good players lined up and we’ll have forgotten any concerns this time next year. |
Good post, and lest not forget we didn’t score for 11hours+.
Again to be fair to Cook, Wilson point out that the squad on paper wasn’t good enough to get promoted, as well as blaming the size of squad and Lamberts tinkering!
But you know I bet Lincoln would bend over backwards to get a Downes, a Bishop, a Norwood, a Dozzell, a Parrot, a Wolfenden, with a squad valued at a third of ours, and who still make the play-odds. It was only 2 wins.
As for you main point, which I’d missed, Cook only seems to be keeping Norwood, so that’s 5 or 6 of our supposedly best academy products of the last few batches, who had broken through, being dispatched. Which is a concern. Although I bet you Cook has Baggot and Gibbs in his plans.
Either way exciting summer of transfers to come!!!! Everything crossed this gamble works!! [Post edited 22 May 2021 8:57]
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| Couple of concerns on Cook strategy on 10:52 - May 22 with 3157 views | Keaneish |
| Couple of concerns on Cook strategy on 08:45 - May 22 by thebooks |
You could rebuild the structure in the Championship. You’d have more money and could attract better players. |
No you couldn’t, that’s a fundamentally flawed argument. Replacing the club infrastructure and squad inevitably results in a slow start. Sides recover from slow starts in League One, they very rarely do in the Championship. We’d be back in League One in no time, a little wealthier perhaps but then requiring yet another rebuild. In my view, it’s a really short sighted argument. [Post edited 22 May 2021 11:26]
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| Couple of concerns on Cook strategy on 10:58 - May 22 with 3141 views | pointofblue |
| Couple of concerns on Cook strategy on 08:57 - May 22 by unstableblue |
Good post, and lest not forget we didn’t score for 11hours+.
Again to be fair to Cook, Wilson point out that the squad on paper wasn’t good enough to get promoted, as well as blaming the size of squad and Lamberts tinkering!
But you know I bet Lincoln would bend over backwards to get a Downes, a Bishop, a Norwood, a Dozzell, a Parrot, a Wolfenden, with a squad valued at a third of ours, and who still make the play-odds. It was only 2 wins.
As for you main point, which I’d missed, Cook only seems to be keeping Norwood, so that’s 5 or 6 of our supposedly best academy products of the last few batches, who had broken through, being dispatched. Which is a concern. Although I bet you Cook has Baggot and Gibbs in his plans.
Either way exciting summer of transfers to come!!!! Everything crossed this gamble works!! [Post edited 22 May 2021 8:57]
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Guess this my biggest concern with Cook - his picks from the squad we already have. Seemingly keeping Nolan but booting Downes; seemingly wanting Edwards but letting Dobra go; seemingly feeling Nsiala can offer something but telling Woolfenden to find a new club; exercising the option on Drinan but Bishop (as I think Drinan is a number ten rather than an out-and-out striker) can apparently leave. There doesn’t seem a logic there unless he has to raise funds himself, at which point the youngsters will probably bring more in than Hurst’s lot. [Post edited 22 May 2021 11:11]
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| Couple of concerns on Cook strategy on 11:13 - May 22 with 3080 views | cressi |
| Couple of concerns on Cook strategy on 10:58 - May 22 by pointofblue |
Guess this my biggest concern with Cook - his picks from the squad we already have. Seemingly keeping Nolan but booting Downes; seemingly wanting Edwards but letting Dobra go; seemingly feeling Nsiala can offer something but telling Woolfenden to find a new club; exercising the option on Drinan but Bishop (as I think Drinan is a number ten rather than an out-and-out striker) can apparently leave. There doesn’t seem a logic there unless he has to raise funds himself, at which point the youngsters will probably bring more in than Hurst’s lot. [Post edited 22 May 2021 11:11]
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Think you have to look at cooks previous clubs he has cleared the decks and it has brought success without big help financially so we will have to trust him to get right also I think we will have 2 or 3 of this current crop left here those who buy into it, Also if players who are rumoured to want to leave its a bye from me just get the money you feel they are worth. | | | |
| Couple of concerns on Cook strategy on 11:27 - May 22 with 3001 views | ElephantintheRoom |
It's a tad worse that than - a number of those disillusioned and demoralised players have contracts and will return in six weeks time - probably to form the nucleus of next season's team knowing they will in all probability be here longer than the manager.
Add in his pathetic behaviour, awful man management , bringing dud yes men - and tendancy to criticise players to cover his own blatantly obvious shortcomings - and it is not exactly a recipe for success, nor exactly guaranteed to endear himself to his erstwhile new employers, when and if they every have the time to see how their investment is doing.
I'll be very surprised if he is not long gone by Xmas. | |
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| Couple of concerns on Cook strategy on 11:32 - May 22 with 2969 views | gordon |
| Couple of concerns on Cook strategy on 08:27 - May 22 by unstableblue |
I think the positive is that there seems to be a lot of players available and on the market this summer; but as Ian Atkins said in commentary (who’s worked with Cook) It’s very hard to get necessary quality in one or two transfer windows. It’s important not to go for 2nd/3rd choices.
So I think fans are going to have to very patient. This is a long term project.
But again that’s the strategy cocncern, I’m convinced they Downes, Dozzell, Wolf and Dobra are ready for their best seasons, if surrounded by better quality. Why rip it completely apart. |
Think it will be really, really hard to get in that many good players so quickly - while a few (like Wilson) have already got something sorted, I think there will be a lot of players happy to keep their options open for a bit longer, wait to see what interest arises, particularly if we're targetting players from the League above.
If someone like Sonny Bradley (or that sort of level of player) knows there's solid interest from League One, no problem - wait a couple of weeks and see if anyone comes in at Championship level, or your current club offers a better contract.
We could be able to pick up one or two players like that who are really keen on the area / project / Cook etc., but there really aren't going to be championship quality players queuing up to drop down a division when they don't need to. [Post edited 22 May 2021 11:32]
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| Couple of concerns on Cook strategy on 11:52 - May 22 with 2905 views | Churchman |
If you were told you might need to find a new club at the end of the season, would you down tools or would you act like a professional and put a bit of effort in to put yourself in the shop window? Is it really acceptable, if people think these players were any good, for them to stick their rear ends in the air to Wimbledon and Northampton?
What kind of galvanising could anyone realistically do to with people who couldn’t even manage two halves of football? A team for whom home defeats against Sunderland, Portsmouth and Peterborough were forgone conclusions. A point at home to any would have been break out the open top bus. A well paid League 1 squad for whom mediocrity is a way of life year in year out. No chance.
As for Blackpool, the manager had time to embed his tactics. If it was that clear and that easy they would not have been easy meat at the start of the season. It takes time.
Do I agree with Cook airing what he is doing, saying and thinking so openly so early? No, I’d have waited, but I understand why he followed what clearly is his nature. As for Wilson, I wouldn’t put too much store on the words of 16 game season bang average L1 player taking a pay cut and relocation to other end of the country after the easy meal ticket has ended.
Can Cook rebuild? He’s done it before and I hope he can. Not easy and fingers crossed. If there’s no sign of progress he’ll be out on his earhole by November anyway. Americans don’t do patience. |  | | |
| Couple of concerns on Cook strategy on 12:10 - May 22 with 2783 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Couple of concerns on Cook strategy on 11:27 - May 22 by ElephantintheRoom |
It's a tad worse that than - a number of those disillusioned and demoralised players have contracts and will return in six weeks time - probably to form the nucleus of next season's team knowing they will in all probability be here longer than the manager.
Add in his pathetic behaviour, awful man management , bringing dud yes men - and tendancy to criticise players to cover his own blatantly obvious shortcomings - and it is not exactly a recipe for success, nor exactly guaranteed to endear himself to his erstwhile new employers, when and if they every have the time to see how their investment is doing.
I'll be very surprised if he is not long gone by Xmas. |
If any players return disillusioned and demoralised, rather than raring to go for the new season, then what the hell are they doing playing professional football?
If players get 10-20% fitter during pre-season, and come back ready to show Cook they want to play and get out of this league, he's no idiot, he'll use them if they are bring something he wants to the team, if they don't then he's quite within his rights to loan them out or sell them.. |  |
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| Couple of concerns on Cook strategy on 12:10 - May 22 with 2776 views | Hipsterectomy |
I’ve never known a group of fans where a large proportion collectively lose faith in a manager within 2 months
Is a job probation period in Suffolk a week or something? |  |
| Walter Smith's Barmy Army |
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| Couple of concerns on Cook strategy on 12:44 - May 22 with 2648 views | IpswichKnight |
IF we have signed no one by mid to late June then it’s time to question this strategy. Currently only 10 players in the whole of the EFL have moved clubs. It’s easy to forget but Cook hasn’t lost a home game yet. | | | |
| Couple of concerns on Cook strategy on 12:52 - May 22 with 2588 views | BlueBadger |
| Couple of concerns on Cook strategy on 10:58 - May 22 by pointofblue |
Guess this my biggest concern with Cook - his picks from the squad we already have. Seemingly keeping Nolan but booting Downes; seemingly wanting Edwards but letting Dobra go; seemingly feeling Nsiala can offer something but telling Woolfenden to find a new club; exercising the option on Drinan but Bishop (as I think Drinan is a number ten rather than an out-and-out striker) can apparently leave. There doesn’t seem a logic there unless he has to raise funds himself, at which point the youngsters will probably bring more in than Hurst’s lot. [Post edited 22 May 2021 11:11]
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Nolan I can kid of understand keeping on as he was injured very early into Cook's reign so he won't have had a look at him properly. Edwards but not Downes is madness though. |  |
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| Couple of concerns on Cook strategy on 12:56 - May 22 with 2576 views | stonojnr |
| Couple of concerns on Cook strategy on 08:36 - May 22 by Keaneish |
Wilson also said, "this club wasn't ready to get promoted", which was the headline of the article and he's fundamentally right. Going up this season would have been terrible so clamouring for the play-offs is a complete misnomer when the infrastructure of this club needs a complete rebuild first in my view.
As for communicating that all players can get a new club, the shock to the system is what is required to awake this slumber. Clearly and very obviously not all players are leaving. This is another test, another test so see what players want to be here, what agents have the club's back and can be trusted and most importantly, a test to show players their true market worth as a reality check after a dreadful season to bring their egos in check and focus them ahead of a new campaign.
Is it high-risk? Potentially but good luck to PC; It's refreshing, honest and nips any kind of apathy, player or agent power in the bud. |
but this maybe goes to the heart of the issue the club/players have had these last couple of seasons.
whether or not the club would have had the structures to cope with promotion to the championship, and I would question what that even means because I dont think weve regressed to a league 1 club level at all.
but even if it were the case its irrelevant, there is no way a player like Wilson or any in the squad should be walking on the pitch with the attitude that we arent ready to get promoted, because its self fulfilling, its a negative mindset which leeches into how they play and how they react to setbacks, when the coaches/manager should have been instilling a positive mindset, that we are totally ready to get promoted, its our destiny to get promoted,
because when you aim for the moon, if you miss you will land among the stars, thats why even I think talk of just consolidating next season is wrong, the aim is promotion as champions of the league.
it sounds a helluva lot like they needed a good sports psychologist working with them than anything else | | | |
| Couple of concerns on Cook strategy on 13:01 - May 22 with 2539 views | xrayspecs |
Conversations with potential players started before the end of our season. It takes time to get deals done. Be patient. | | | |
| Couple of concerns on Cook strategy on 14:23 - May 22 with 2373 views | unstableblue |
| Couple of concerns on Cook strategy on 13:01 - May 22 by xrayspecs |
Conversations with potential players started before the end of our season. It takes time to get deals done. Be patient. |
As I posted before, whilst early deals have clearly been attempted, I think the big push comes when Ashton is fully on board in a week. Although I’m sure he’s already active for Town.
I expect some exciting and excellent signings this summer… but KVY, Norwood, Nolan and Edwards will need a very significant number of players around them to create a squad. And volume is hard due to competition for players. [Post edited 22 May 2021 14:24]
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| Couple of concerns on Cook strategy on 14:35 - May 22 with 2329 views | unstableblue |
| Couple of concerns on Cook strategy on 12:10 - May 22 by Hipsterectomy |
I’ve never known a group of fans where a large proportion collectively lose faith in a manager within 2 months
Is a job probation period in Suffolk a week or something? |
Errrrr he’s had 16 games, and 25% win ratio, and 11hours without a goal.
That cannot be completely ignored even if it wasn’t his players.
I’m backing Cook, I think he needs a settled coaching team, he needs legacy failed players such as Chambo, Ward, Bennets et al out of the building
But a bit like throwing under the bus so early, despite many of whom would walk into say Lincoln, is there not need to keep a few more sweet in case we can’t recruit enough. | |
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| Couple of concerns on Cook strategy on 14:36 - May 22 with 2320 views | unstableblue |
| Couple of concerns on Cook strategy on 12:52 - May 22 by BlueBadger |
Nolan I can kid of understand keeping on as he was injured very early into Cook's reign so he won't have had a look at him properly. Edwards but not Downes is madness though. |
Totally agree | |
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