| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever 16:26 - Nov 11 with 7589 views | ElderGrizzly |
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| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 21:04 - Nov 11 with 1098 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 20:36 - Nov 11 by Darth_Koont |
Yep. And this is the big problem with many so-called centrists and the centrist media that pretends to be serious about this stuff.
They don’t actually care. Because they like politicians who respond to corporate interests before ordinary people as that will benefit them as individuals.
They’ll wring their hands and moan about the Tories and talk about serious, forensic opposition. But real serious, forensic opposition would demand that they pay more tax and prioritise others rather than themselves and their property/share portfolio. |
The Guardian are still going after Starmer 5 days after the main Tory story broke on 2nd jobs.
Starmer did legal work for refugees and women’s rights in this period they are pushing | | | |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 21:32 - Nov 11 with 1074 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 21:04 - Nov 11 by ElderGrizzly |
The Guardian are still going after Starmer 5 days after the main Tory story broke on 2nd jobs.
Starmer did legal work for refugees and women’s rights in this period they are pushing |
But the Guardian’s not the left in any real sense. They’ve proven that amply over the past half-dozen years.
Anyway, I’d be going after his discussions with Mishcon de Reya. |  |
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| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 22:20 - Nov 11 with 1046 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 21:32 - Nov 11 by Darth_Koont |
But the Guardian’s not the left in any real sense. They’ve proven that amply over the past half-dozen years.
Anyway, I’d be going after his discussions with Mishcon de Reya. |
I know they aren’t. They are still sympathetic to Corbyn but more centrist now than ever, yet they are still going for him. | | | |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 22:25 - Nov 11 with 1036 views | footers |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 22:20 - Nov 11 by ElderGrizzly |
I know they aren’t. They are still sympathetic to Corbyn but more centrist now than ever, yet they are still going for him. |
And they employ Adrian fecking Chiles. Obviously just because he's banging the editor, but honestly, does anyone find him in any way amusing, insightful or entertaining?
Answers on a postcard, please. |  |
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| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 22:29 - Nov 11 with 1018 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 22:25 - Nov 11 by footers |
And they employ Adrian fecking Chiles. Obviously just because he's banging the editor, but honestly, does anyone find him in any way amusing, insightful or entertaining?
Answers on a postcard, please. |
I like him. |  |
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| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 22:35 - Nov 11 with 1011 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 22:20 - Nov 11 by ElderGrizzly |
I know they aren’t. They are still sympathetic to Corbyn but more centrist now than ever, yet they are still going for him. |
What are you talking about? They were rarely sympathetic to Corbyn and anything left of centre. Katharine Viner as editor was pretty relentless going after Corbyn.
A few positive words from Owen Jones, George Monbiot and letter writers doesn’t balance the vitriolic nonsense from most of their columnists and their spin on news reporting.
And re: Starmer they’re probably going after him because they recognise he’s a dud and can read the polling, especially his personal polling. [Post edited 11 Nov 2021 22:38]
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| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 22:36 - Nov 11 with 1006 views | ZXBlue |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 22:20 - Nov 11 by ElderGrizzly |
I know they aren’t. They are still sympathetic to Corbyn but more centrist now than ever, yet they are still going for him. |
This idea that supporting a candidate who is not perfectly what you want but has a chance and is better than they alternatives is somehow a "bad thing" or "modern politics" is odd.
It is the lack of realism and pragmatism that puts so many off the loony left. |  | | |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 22:44 - Nov 11 with 989 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 22:36 - Nov 11 by ZXBlue |
This idea that supporting a candidate who is not perfectly what you want but has a chance and is better than they alternatives is somehow a "bad thing" or "modern politics" is odd.
It is the lack of realism and pragmatism that puts so many off the loony left. |
I think you’re confusing realism and pragmatism with what you yourself can understand and support.
I’m talking about a complete lack of realism and pragmatism. This complacent attitude about politics is why the country has been sleepwalking into all of this recent nonsense for the past two decades or more.
What have you got to show for it? Brexit, austerity, the likely break up of the UK and enormous inequality and frustration.
Wake the fück up. | |
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| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 23:09 - Nov 11 with 949 views | ZXBlue |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 22:44 - Nov 11 by Darth_Koont |
I think you’re confusing realism and pragmatism with what you yourself can understand and support.
I’m talking about a complete lack of realism and pragmatism. This complacent attitude about politics is why the country has been sleepwalking into all of this recent nonsense for the past two decades or more.
What have you got to show for it? Brexit, austerity, the likely break up of the UK and enormous inequality and frustration.
Wake the fück up. |
No. I am not. I am recognising reality, whereas you are so dogmatically wed to your ideology, that you cannot se the wood for the trees. If there are lots like you, the prospects of ever ousting Johnson't corupt, Trump-lite government, are nil.
You can stick to your dogmatism and put people off voting for a potentially viable option which is imperfect, thereby ensuring the status quo. Or you can get behind an imperfect option which has a prospect of success. | | | |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 23:13 - Nov 11 with 947 views | tractordownsouth |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 17:47 - Nov 11 by Darth_Koont |
Hmmm. Although Lambert would have been the least bad option compared to Hurst – or maybe not! Similarly, Starmer is part of the problem, taking us further down the same path.
Anyway it’ll be a few years until the next election and hopefully there’ll be more of an alternative with more political integrity and vision before then.
For Scotland, there already is: the least bad option is to get shot of Westminster entirely if it’s a choice between Johnson and Starmer. |
What did you think about that Green Party MSP siding with the SNP instead of Greenpeace the other week? Seemed a bit embarrasing to me.
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| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 23:16 - Nov 11 with 944 views | You_Bloo_Right |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 22:44 - Nov 11 by Darth_Koont |
I think you’re confusing realism and pragmatism with what you yourself can understand and support.
I’m talking about a complete lack of realism and pragmatism. This complacent attitude about politics is why the country has been sleepwalking into all of this recent nonsense for the past two decades or more.
What have you got to show for it? Brexit, austerity, the likely break up of the UK and enormous inequality and frustration.
Wake the fück up. |
I am fully awake and am intrigued to find out what your way forward is and how long that might take.
I'm quite happy to accept that the major parties in this country and our voting system make it increasingly unlikely that radical change will be forthcoming.
The issue surely is that the only way to achieve radical change in a short enough time frame to get the "reset" of our political system that may be desired is revolution. Running to the arms of the Green party candidate, for example, just serves to prolong the status quo does it not?
Maybe I'm too old now to man the barricades but there are times when "the least worst" is an improvement on our current lot and until the great reset happens then that is, perhaps has only ever been, the choice. |  |
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| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 23:58 - Nov 11 with 899 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 23:13 - Nov 11 by tractordownsouth |
What did you think about that Green Party MSP siding with the SNP instead of Greenpeace the other week? Seemed a bit embarrasing to me.
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Who was right?
Maybe start there. | |
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| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 00:00 - Nov 12 with 892 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 23:16 - Nov 11 by You_Bloo_Right |
I am fully awake and am intrigued to find out what your way forward is and how long that might take.
I'm quite happy to accept that the major parties in this country and our voting system make it increasingly unlikely that radical change will be forthcoming.
The issue surely is that the only way to achieve radical change in a short enough time frame to get the "reset" of our political system that may be desired is revolution. Running to the arms of the Green party candidate, for example, just serves to prolong the status quo does it not?
Maybe I'm too old now to man the barricades but there are times when "the least worst" is an improvement on our current lot and until the great reset happens then that is, perhaps has only ever been, the choice. |
I’ve heard the same for 30-odd years.
It hasn’t worked and will never work. | |
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| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 00:02 - Nov 12 with 886 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 22:29 - Nov 11 by Lord_Lucan |
I like him. |
Err so do i [Post edited 12 Nov 2021 0:02]
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| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 00:32 - Nov 12 with 850 views | tractordownsouth |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 23:58 - Nov 11 by Darth_Koont |
Who was right?
Maybe start there. |
Here’s one of the MSPs disregarding an opinion of a well-respected international NGO on a cross-border issue because of its office being based in England. Defending the SNP failing to rule out the Cambo oil field policy on this basis is not only a sell out of environmentalist principles but a bit of a dog whistle don’t you think?
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-
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| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 00:37 - Nov 12 with 841 views | Geomorph |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 17:27 - Nov 11 by Darth_Koont |
Is Starmer doing well?
Serious question. As I think he’s been awful (dishonest, unprincipled and incompetent) and offers a terrible choice for the country.
This is the Tories doing even worse than before. |
Not surprising given the media being an implicit part of the government machine |  | | |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 00:43 - Nov 12 with 841 views | Geomorph |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 20:19 - Nov 11 by Darth_Koont |
Exactly.
The Labour right are deeply disturbing, authoritarian people who fetishise money, power and influence for their own sakes. I actually think most Tories have a stronger value system even if I disagree with it.
The Labour Party and politics is just a vehicle for them that will pay well if they angle it back towards the establishment.
I’d go so far to say they are some of the worst people in politics and that’s including Galloway, Farage, Robinson and various swivel-eyed Tory backbenchers. |
Welcome to 50 more years of corrupt charlatanism then | | | |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 01:06 - Nov 12 with 831 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 00:32 - Nov 12 by tractordownsouth |
Here’s one of the MSPs disregarding an opinion of a well-respected international NGO on a cross-border issue because of its office being based in England. Defending the SNP failing to rule out the Cambo oil field policy on this basis is not only a sell out of environmentalist principles but a bit of a dog whistle don’t you think?
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-
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You haven’t made a point yet.
You’re making an appeal to authority but what are the facts? | |
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| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 08:05 - Nov 12 with 756 views | Herbivore |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 20:19 - Nov 11 by Darth_Koont |
Exactly.
The Labour right are deeply disturbing, authoritarian people who fetishise money, power and influence for their own sakes. I actually think most Tories have a stronger value system even if I disagree with it.
The Labour Party and politics is just a vehicle for them that will pay well if they angle it back towards the establishment.
I’d go so far to say they are some of the worst people in politics and that’s including Galloway, Farage, Robinson and various swivel-eyed Tory backbenchers. |
I mean, this is all just b0llocks though really. I get you're still massively butt hurt about how Corbyn was treated by some in his party but you've lost all sense of reality on this. Your constant attacks on Labour whilst barely batting an eyelid at what a corrupt sh!t show the Tory government is resembles the kind of enabling that you're very keen to accuse others of. Get a fooking grip. [Post edited 12 Nov 2021 8:25]
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| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 08:23 - Nov 12 with 737 views | lowhouseblue |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 20:19 - Nov 11 by Darth_Koont |
Exactly.
The Labour right are deeply disturbing, authoritarian people who fetishise money, power and influence for their own sakes. I actually think most Tories have a stronger value system even if I disagree with it.
The Labour Party and politics is just a vehicle for them that will pay well if they angle it back towards the establishment.
I’d go so far to say they are some of the worst people in politics and that’s including Galloway, Farage, Robinson and various swivel-eyed Tory backbenchers. |
welcome to the dk self-parody show - he's here all week. every week. the uncompromising moral guardian of political irrelevance and sustaining the tories. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 09:06 - Nov 12 with 688 views | WeWereZombies |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 00:32 - Nov 12 by tractordownsouth |
Here’s one of the MSPs disregarding an opinion of a well-respected international NGO on a cross-border issue because of its office being based in England. Defending the SNP failing to rule out the Cambo oil field policy on this basis is not only a sell out of environmentalist principles but a bit of a dog whistle don’t you think?
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-
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I think the speaker makes a lot of good points, and I say this as someone who has had a squint or two at the Scottish Greens and so far decided that they are not for me. You should appreciate that the environment in Scotland is quite different. apart from places like the Lake District and Dartmoor, from England. There are rapidly shifting sensibilities and alignments at the moment, if an NGO that is not attuned to those (and I have had direct experience of being asked to do a job for Greenpeace) comes in and disrupts the possibility of making good progress on vital issues it shouldn't be surprising that they get short shrift - rather like the lack of sympathy shown by some of the marchers I was with on Saturday as we passed the kettled Young Communist League lot on St. Vincent Street who may have tried ti hijack a climate protest for class was aims and kept the rest of us waiting around in the rain and getting cold for over an hour at the start. |  |
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| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 09:08 - Nov 12 with 677 views | tractordownsouth |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 08:05 - Nov 12 by Herbivore |
I mean, this is all just b0llocks though really. I get you're still massively butt hurt about how Corbyn was treated by some in his party but you've lost all sense of reality on this. Your constant attacks on Labour whilst barely batting an eyelid at what a corrupt sh!t show the Tory government is resembles the kind of enabling that you're very keen to accuse others of. Get a fooking grip. [Post edited 12 Nov 2021 8:25]
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You could almost create a bingo card for DK’s posts
- Something about Labour MPs being the “left side of the establishment” (or buzzwords to that effect)
- Claiming that Labour moderates are worse than Tories because at least the Tories have principles
- Dismissal of the last Labour government
- A plug for Scottish Independence, with bonus points for dismissal of economic forecasts | |
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| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 09:13 - Nov 12 with 671 views | tractordownsouth |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 09:06 - Nov 12 by WeWereZombies |
I think the speaker makes a lot of good points, and I say this as someone who has had a squint or two at the Scottish Greens and so far decided that they are not for me. You should appreciate that the environment in Scotland is quite different. apart from places like the Lake District and Dartmoor, from England. There are rapidly shifting sensibilities and alignments at the moment, if an NGO that is not attuned to those (and I have had direct experience of being asked to do a job for Greenpeace) comes in and disrupts the possibility of making good progress on vital issues it shouldn't be surprising that they get short shrift - rather like the lack of sympathy shown by some of the marchers I was with on Saturday as we passed the kettled Young Communist League lot on St. Vincent Street who may have tried ti hijack a climate protest for class was aims and kept the rest of us waiting around in the rain and getting cold for over an hour at the start. |
I get that local voices are more important on issues but it did seem a bit dog-whistley, like a lot of the nationalist rhetoric. I struggle to see how an oil field project is any better for the environment if it’s based in Scotland rather than anywhere else though? | |
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| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 09:24 - Nov 12 with 664 views | WeWereZombies |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 09:13 - Nov 12 by tractordownsouth |
I get that local voices are more important on issues but it did seem a bit dog-whistley, like a lot of the nationalist rhetoric. I struggle to see how an oil field project is any better for the environment if it’s based in Scotland rather than anywhere else though? |
It's politics - if the economy isn't supported by some oil money then a lot of SNP supporters get grumpy, especially if they see it as some kind of appeasement to the Greens - which in turn weakens the Greens influence on the SNP. I think you need to let the penny drop that Scotland is a separate nation within a union - that has been the case for more than three hundred years now, you know... | |
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