| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever 16:26 - Nov 11 with 7582 views | ElderGrizzly |
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| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 22:02 - Nov 12 with 1335 views | tractordownsouth |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 21:12 - Nov 12 by Darth_Koont |
So you could delete it but you’re happy with a smear so long as it serves its purpose.
Classy. |
Eh? As far as I’m aware I don’t think you can link a reply tweet without the original coming up as well? It’s not some smear agenda - I didn’t intend to put it there in the first place. |  |
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| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 23:27 - Nov 12 with 1277 views | Kievthegreat |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 14:48 - Nov 12 by Herbivore |
Labour started off an absolute mile back though plus you've still got the warm, fuzzy glow of getting Brexit done and the fact that incumbents tend to fare well during crises, even whilst handling them abysmally.
It's not really been a 'normal' 18 months in politics and let's be honest, policy wise we know very little about what either party stands for as it's all been highly reactive rather than proactive. And we're way off another GE still so it's too early to offer anything close to a manifesto.
Corbyn was so divisive that whoever followed was doomed. Too many bitter recriminations from the likes of Koonters at any perceived attack on the former Corbynites and too many of said Corbynites unwilling to face up to the reality that he was rejected by the electorate in spectacular fashion and shown up as being rather hopeless in the process. Anything other than a continuation of Corbynism wouldn't appease them, sadly. Feels like Starmer will be the face to steady the ship and get some credibility back with the majority of the electorate (rather than just the rich kids at Glasto) before someone else comes in to really take the party forward and hopefully by then some of the resentments will have simmered down enough for a Labour to emerge that we can all get behind. |
With regards to Brexit:
The warm fuzzy glow might be dissipating. |  | | |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 23:52 - Nov 12 with 1257 views | XYZ |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 23:27 - Nov 12 by Kievthegreat |
With regards to Brexit:
The warm fuzzy glow might be dissipating. |
Who would have thought they'd use the unchecked power to fill our rivers full of sh!t to fill out rivers full of sh!t?
Literally and metaphorically. |  | | |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 23:55 - Nov 12 with 1243 views | GunnsAirkick |
Things, can only get better? |  | | |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 23:59 - Nov 12 with 1219 views | XYZ |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 23:55 - Nov 12 by GunnsAirkick |
Things, can only get better? |
Blimey.
If that's not an outlier and is backed up with subsequent polls, Johnson's going to be spending more time looking for someone to write his Shakespeare book and chasing blondes. | | | |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 07:38 - Nov 13 with 1121 views | Herbivore |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 23:27 - Nov 12 by Kievthegreat |
With regards to Brexit:
The warm fuzzy glow might be dissipating. |
Indeed, although that chunk of people who still support it will continue to cling to Johnson's coat tails and explains how there's still a third (or more) of the electorate that would vote for his party. Hopefully both those who still support Brexit and those who still vote for this version of the Tories will continue to dwindle in number. It takes a wilful blindness to what's going on in the country to still support either. |  |
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| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 09:58 - Nov 13 with 1070 views | tractordownsouth |
The Tories have a big decision to make in the next year or so. Johnson's vaccine honeymoon period is seemingly over and particularly in the "blue wall" seats they're on course to lose a decent chunk of their core vote to Labour and the Liberal Democrats. However, I don't see an alternative with a similar personality and associations with Brexit to keep hold of the new support they got in 2019.
Sunak is eloquent but the hype is inevitably starting to fade now he's stopped paying everybody's wages, Gove will go for it again but can't see him having too much appeal and Raab needs to focus on not losing his seat before worrying about the top job. The current favourite among the membership is Liz Truss, which would be good news for Labour; she has a bit of the Theresa Mays about her - very awkward in interviews. Whatever the outcome of the decision, the fact that such a choice will need to be made could lead to a lot of infighting, which will certainly be interesting. | |
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| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 10:04 - Nov 13 with 1059 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 22:02 - Nov 12 by tractordownsouth |
Eh? As far as I’m aware I don’t think you can link a reply tweet without the original coming up as well? It’s not some smear agenda - I didn’t intend to put it there in the first place. |
The tweet was the smear, the second part is by all accounts fake too.
This shady sh|t is another reason why I don’t like the Labour right. |  |
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| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 10:13 - Nov 13 with 1040 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 14:19 - Nov 12 by footers |
I often find these arguments between you and Herb slightly confusing.
You're a democratic socialist and Herbs is a Marxist so not sure why we're not singing from a similar (if not the same) hymn sheet more often.
You're the two posters I agree with most on matters political (Spruce RIP) so a bit weird to see. Maybe the leftist trope of us all arguing over small trifles instead of uniting around a common cause? |
I think Herbs is annoyed because I’m specifically criticising his choice. As he seemingly doesn’t have a problem with LibDems who have been propping up the Tories for years (literally in 2010).
What I also don’t get is that we can’t even vote for anyone at this moment. The election is a couple of years off. Why do we have to drink the KoolAid and pretend we like and trust their politics now? Surely now is the time to be critical and ask for better? | |
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| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 10:19 - Nov 13 with 1029 views | tractordownsouth |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 10:04 - Nov 13 by Darth_Koont |
The tweet was the smear, the second part is by all accounts fake too.
This shady sh|t is another reason why I don’t like the Labour right. |
It’s not fake. The account was on Instagram until its removal after the tweet was found. It’s not shady.
Like I said, there’s no way of removing the original tweet and I’ve made it clear multiple times that i haven’t endorsed the viewpoint in it. It’s just there. | |
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| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 10:25 - Nov 13 with 1023 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 15:01 - Nov 12 by Cotty |
It's a shame the left have to rip each other to shreds all of the time. Shouldn't we be doing that to the Tories? I'd rather have ANY labour leader in charge than this dangerous, corrupt and incompetent bunch of lying dishonest psychopaths. Wouldn't you?
Time to get over Jeremy and back the horse most likely to beat the horse we must stop at all costs. |
I’m not going to criticise you for that opinion. And it may come down to that for me in a couple of years time when it matters.
In the meantime, I think Starmer and the current Labour Party are heading down the wrong path. And I want to see much more of an indication that they understand the challenges facing the country rather than trying to appease voters and posture with weak and insufficient alternatives.
Because having a crap, limited and ultimately pretty empty political discussion is what has enabled Johnson, Cummings, Farage, Brexit et al. That’s created the space where they thrive. | |
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| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 10:31 - Nov 13 with 1014 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 10:19 - Nov 13 by tractordownsouth |
It’s not fake. The account was on Instagram until its removal after the tweet was found. It’s not shady.
Like I said, there’s no way of removing the original tweet and I’ve made it clear multiple times that i haven’t endorsed the viewpoint in it. It’s just there. |
You haven’t endorsed it but yet it’s your response to me saying Labour’s attack on the LSE protesters with accusations of antisemitism was disgusting ...
Pretty unpleasant stuff. I expected better from you than this. | |
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| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 10:50 - Nov 13 with 997 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 11:56 - Nov 12 by Herbivore |
So an idea you've made up essentially, no actual institutions or anything. |
I took this as you being obtuse, but maybe not.
As you said yourself, the establishment is a nebulous concept but we agree it exists. For me, it’s money, influence and ultimately the centre of gravity of power beyond the democracy. Clearly a Labour Party as the official opposition and nominally left-wing alternative that aligns itself with those establishment interests is shoring up the left flank. Ditto the Guardian which has been policing and often excluding left-wing politics over the past few years. Then there are the unions that still have some power but where many have slid right.
I haven’t made that up. Indeed it’s often been pointed out that the fiercest fighters against left-wing politics are in those trenches. Like Blair and Mandelson etc. who came out and said much more and with clearly much more effect about not voting for a left-wing Labour Party and rather having the Tories in power. | |
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| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 10:57 - Nov 13 with 976 views | lowhouseblue |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 10:50 - Nov 13 by Darth_Koont |
I took this as you being obtuse, but maybe not.
As you said yourself, the establishment is a nebulous concept but we agree it exists. For me, it’s money, influence and ultimately the centre of gravity of power beyond the democracy. Clearly a Labour Party as the official opposition and nominally left-wing alternative that aligns itself with those establishment interests is shoring up the left flank. Ditto the Guardian which has been policing and often excluding left-wing politics over the past few years. Then there are the unions that still have some power but where many have slid right.
I haven’t made that up. Indeed it’s often been pointed out that the fiercest fighters against left-wing politics are in those trenches. Like Blair and Mandelson etc. who came out and said much more and with clearly much more effect about not voting for a left-wing Labour Party and rather having the Tories in power. |
if there's an establishment then it loves people like you. the noise and bluster and pretence of challenge without the threat of your ever changing a single thing. you're the pointless theatre that splits the opposition and functions to remind people that the status quo could be worse. if cil had had a bit more insight she'd have labelled you as an establishment run false flag. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 11:06 - Nov 13 with 956 views | Herbivore |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 10:50 - Nov 13 by Darth_Koont |
I took this as you being obtuse, but maybe not.
As you said yourself, the establishment is a nebulous concept but we agree it exists. For me, it’s money, influence and ultimately the centre of gravity of power beyond the democracy. Clearly a Labour Party as the official opposition and nominally left-wing alternative that aligns itself with those establishment interests is shoring up the left flank. Ditto the Guardian which has been policing and often excluding left-wing politics over the past few years. Then there are the unions that still have some power but where many have slid right.
I haven’t made that up. Indeed it’s often been pointed out that the fiercest fighters against left-wing politics are in those trenches. Like Blair and Mandelson etc. who came out and said much more and with clearly much more effect about not voting for a left-wing Labour Party and rather having the Tories in power. |
So the Guardian and unions are now the establishment? I'd probably describe that as a hot take. | |
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| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 11:07 - Nov 13 with 954 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 10:57 - Nov 13 by lowhouseblue |
if there's an establishment then it loves people like you. the noise and bluster and pretence of challenge without the threat of your ever changing a single thing. you're the pointless theatre that splits the opposition and functions to remind people that the status quo could be worse. if cil had had a bit more insight she'd have labelled you as an establishment run false flag. |
What do you consider "real" challenging of the establishment, as opposed to "pretend" challenging?
Do you think the "establishment" as such isn't challengable at all? |  |
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| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 11:21 - Nov 13 with 923 views | tractordownsouth |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 11:06 - Nov 13 by Herbivore |
So the Guardian and unions are now the establishment? I'd probably describe that as a hot take. |
The unions have stopped representing the people - I much preferred the old leaders like Len McCluskey spending member subscription fees on £90m hotels and Ian Lavery receiving 160k from an NUM branch with 10 members. | |
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| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 11:21 - Nov 13 with 921 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 11:06 - Nov 13 by Herbivore |
So the Guardian and unions are now the establishment? I'd probably describe that as a hot take. |
If they align themselves to the establishment and its interests, then yes. If they distance themselves, then no.
Now I think you’re being obtuse. | |
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| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 11:23 - Nov 13 with 916 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 11:21 - Nov 13 by tractordownsouth |
The unions have stopped representing the people - I much preferred the old leaders like Len McCluskey spending member subscription fees on £90m hotels and Ian Lavery receiving 160k from an NUM branch with 10 members. |
Mmmm. Can’t beat a bit of bad faith in the morning. | |
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| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 11:31 - Nov 13 with 900 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 10:57 - Nov 13 by lowhouseblue |
if there's an establishment then it loves people like you. the noise and bluster and pretence of challenge without the threat of your ever changing a single thing. you're the pointless theatre that splits the opposition and functions to remind people that the status quo could be worse. if cil had had a bit more insight she'd have labelled you as an establishment run false flag. |
No, you’re definitely number one in their books. Slavish in your devotion to parties and politicians who won’t challenge the status quo on anything substantial.
And “if there’s an establishment ...” what world do you live in? | |
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| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 11:42 - Nov 13 with 874 views | m14_blue |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 07:38 - Nov 13 by Herbivore |
Indeed, although that chunk of people who still support it will continue to cling to Johnson's coat tails and explains how there's still a third (or more) of the electorate that would vote for his party. Hopefully both those who still support Brexit and those who still vote for this version of the Tories will continue to dwindle in number. It takes a wilful blindness to what's going on in the country to still support either. |
'It's far easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled' | | | |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 11:50 - Nov 13 with 853 views | leitrimblue |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 11:21 - Nov 13 by tractordownsouth |
The unions have stopped representing the people - I much preferred the old leaders like Len McCluskey spending member subscription fees on £90m hotels and Ian Lavery receiving 160k from an NUM branch with 10 members. |
'The Unions have stopped representing the people' - lucky the working clsss have Starmer to represent them now then.... |  | | |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 11:52 - Nov 13 with 846 views | WeWereZombies |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 11:31 - Nov 13 by Darth_Koont |
No, you’re definitely number one in their books. Slavish in your devotion to parties and politicians who won’t challenge the status quo on anything substantial.
And “if there’s an establishment ...” what world do you live in? |
Perhaps a World that is more than a little out of control and where a bunch of chancers scuttle around broadcasting their importance whilst occasionally giving the tiller of any boat that happens to get floated a quick nudge to make it look like they can do something? |  |
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| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 12:25 - Nov 13 with 800 views | Herbivore |
| Labour leading a voting opinion poll for the first time in like forever on 11:21 - Nov 13 by Darth_Koont |
If they align themselves to the establishment and its interests, then yes. If they distance themselves, then no.
Now I think you’re being obtuse. |
And I think you're not keen on your meaningless soundbites being challenged. And I can now see why. | |
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