| Mandatory jabs, monthly fines on 19:33 - Dec 2 with 1549 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Mandatory jabs, monthly fines on 22:44 - Dec 1 by Swansea_Blue |
Something’s got to be done. We’ve dropped down to about 38th in the list of countries based on %age of population double jabbed.
It probably needs a combination of stick and mostly carrot, but we have to get the vaccine rate up if we’re going to stand a chance of beating it. |
No we don't, we need to give the rest of the not so rich World the chance to take their first ones. |  |
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| Mandatory jabs, monthly fines on 19:36 - Dec 2 with 1525 views | azuremerlangus |
| Mandatory jabs, monthly fines on 22:33 - Dec 1 by StokieBlue |
What do you think should happen?
How about no covid treatment for those that don't take the jabs because it's stopping other people getting essential medical care?
Would you support that?
If not why should someone with an emergency not of their own fault have to not get treatment for an emergency covid patient who could have avoided it by gettting a vaccine >2 billion people have had without many issues?
What would you say if someone you loved couldn't get an ICU bed for a problem because it was taken with a someone who hadn't had the vaccine and wouldn't have been there if they had?
You're quick to complain, let's hear some honest responses on real problems from you.
SB [Post edited 1 Dec 2021 22:34]
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This all comes back to rights and responsibilities.
Yes, you have a right to say no but it is also your responsibility to do the right thing for the community (which as a collective allows you the privilege to have rights).
If you chose to go your own way then you miss out on the benefits - simple as that. |  |
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| Mandatory jabs, monthly fines on 19:45 - Dec 2 with 1500 views | footers |
| Mandatory jabs, monthly fines on 19:36 - Dec 2 by azuremerlangus |
This all comes back to rights and responsibilities.
Yes, you have a right to say no but it is also your responsibility to do the right thing for the community (which as a collective allows you the privilege to have rights).
If you chose to go your own way then you miss out on the benefits - simple as that. |
Exactly. It's all part of the social contract. If you don't like it, you're free to piss off somewhere else. |  |
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| Mandatory jabs, monthly fines on 19:59 - Dec 2 with 1480 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Mandatory jabs, monthly fines on 22:41 - Dec 1 by gtsb1966 |
I'll post what I want. I'm merely pointing out that if you start forcing people it could get and will get nasty. Should they get the jab... absolutely. |
I agree with you.
No one has mentioned the riots in Europe.
Like you I am triple jabbed, I also think there would be major disorder if it were compulsory. You have said nothing wrong but you have got the TWTD Hairdryer! Ha ha.
Oh, and call me old fashioned but for what it's worth - No, I don't think it should be law to have the government of the day put something in your arm against your will |  |
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| Mandatory jabs, monthly fines on 19:59 - Dec 2 with 1479 views | CrockerITFC |
I was all for people choosing their own fate on this as it's their health but when their choices impact other people who have actually decided to take the vaccine why should we all suffer further lockdowns together purely because of their ignorance.
If you have the jab you shouldn't be restricted, if you've chosen to not get the jab then fair enough but face the consequences. It's time for lockdowns for the unvaccinated and mandatory vaccinations. Otherwise, we'll be stuck in this cycle indefinitely. Every time someone catches this thing it can mutate and like with Omicron we're now facing an almost new virus because of it.
The unvaccinated don't have a leg to stand on we've all been very tolerant of their ignorance so far. It should be us who turns nasty on them given the context and the very real threat they place us in. |  | | |
| Mandatory jabs, monthly fines on 20:04 - Dec 2 with 1461 views | CrockerITFC |
| Mandatory jabs, monthly fines on 18:49 - Dec 2 by giant_stow |
That simple choice assumes mandatory vaccinations would work and get the rest of the population jabbed up. Not so sure myself... think many would dig in on principal. That's just a practical concerm - ethically, I think mandatory vaccines are horrible and set a very dangerous precident, just when other freedoms are threatened too. [Post edited 2 Dec 2021 18:51]
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Unfortunately the unvaccinated also have the ability to threaten our freedoms by forcing us into lockdowns, so it works both ways. | | | |
| Mandatory jabs, monthly fines on 20:58 - Dec 2 with 1395 views | Ryorry |
Thanks for posting the actual details of it 👠|  |
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| Mandatory jabs, monthly fines on 21:00 - Dec 2 with 1394 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Mandatory jabs, monthly fines on 22:51 - Dec 1 by gtsb1966 |
I agree but I can still see unrest in some countries. I think everyone should be jabbed but unfortunately I can see the ones who refuse and then get things forced upon them causing unrest. |
Sorry, missed this. Yes, I can see issues too and in this country. I’m not happy with going down the route of mandatory jabs, but how do we bring people with us? Cracking down on the conspiracy theorists and nutjobs actively undermining the health message would be a start. We’re hearing many tragic stories of people who’ve been misled and then (too late) regretted it. I’d prosecute those spreading misinformation. It wouldn’t cover the international dimension on social media, but I’m not sure what we can do about that except more proactive and reliable public health messaging from the government (which we won’t get). |  |
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| Mandatory jabs, monthly fines on 21:17 - Dec 2 with 1362 views | Ryorry |
Just a general question for all or anyone old enough - when we were given our BCG jabs in schools in the 1950s & 60s, was that officially 'mandatory' or did our parents have the right to refuse if it was a personal view? - ie not for medical, or maybe religious reasons.
Us kids didn't think twice about it of course, everyone else was having them, the reasons for doing so were good, we trusted our parents, the medics & scientists, so we all lined up without any hesitation. | |
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| Mandatory jabs, monthly fines on 21:29 - Dec 2 with 1332 views | King_ding_a_lin_g |
Is mandatory vaccination a legally viable option for a government to take? |  | | |
| Mandatory jabs, monthly fines on 21:48 - Dec 2 with 1292 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Mandatory jabs, monthly fines on 22:36 - Dec 1 by gtsb1966 |
Im triple jabbed. I'm talking about the people who won't get jabbed. Start making it compulsory and/or fining those people and there will be serious disorder. That's all I'm saying.
P.s...i haven't complained about anything here. [Post edited 1 Dec 2021 22:38]
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I wish TfL would actually fine people who refuse to wear a mask. Based on my experiences recently on the tube, they could probably claw back most of their deficit.
It's incredibly depressing how utterly selfish and inconsiderate so many people are. I know I shouldn't be surprised after what's happened politically in the last decade, but the pandemic has really shown how bad things are. Every time I go out, a little more of the hope I hold that things might get better dies. |  | | |
| Mandatory jabs, monthly fines on 21:57 - Dec 2 with 1279 views | jeera |
| Mandatory jabs, monthly fines on 21:48 - Dec 2 by Clapham_Junction |
I wish TfL would actually fine people who refuse to wear a mask. Based on my experiences recently on the tube, they could probably claw back most of their deficit.
It's incredibly depressing how utterly selfish and inconsiderate so many people are. I know I shouldn't be surprised after what's happened politically in the last decade, but the pandemic has really shown how bad things are. Every time I go out, a little more of the hope I hold that things might get better dies. |
Basic measures should never have been dropped.
At the first sign of C-19 cases dropping amidst the vaccine campaign they couldn't wait to get the populist nonsense out there; Freedom Day indeed. How insulting to those who have had to live through actual hardship.
It was never going to be fully reversible once that message was out there.
And yes, in case there's any misrepresentation from pro-government supporters, all parties should have stepped up and been more vocal/active on this.
The focus on hand-washing, mask-wearing, some common sense distancing, should have been kept in place.
No one wants to go back to a place of lockdowns nor forced vaccinations, and if people had been led properly, as well as taking more personal responsibility, future potential impacts could have been minimalised. |  |
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| Mandatory jabs, monthly fines on 22:00 - Dec 2 with 1274 views | Mookamoo |
| Mandatory jabs, monthly fines on 21:17 - Dec 2 by Ryorry |
Just a general question for all or anyone old enough - when we were given our BCG jabs in schools in the 1950s & 60s, was that officially 'mandatory' or did our parents have the right to refuse if it was a personal view? - ie not for medical, or maybe religious reasons.
Us kids didn't think twice about it of course, everyone else was having them, the reasons for doing so were good, we trusted our parents, the medics & scientists, so we all lined up without any hesitation. |
Didn't think the BCG was mandatory, just everyone gladly had what was offered at the time given the myriad of childhood diseases that could could kill or cripple you. There was talk of the MMR becoming mandatory for all state school pupils, but that didn't go anywhere. I think in certain US states vaccinations are mandatory for federal education.
Mrs Mookamoo has a mandatory Hep B vaccine for her work. |  | | |
| Mandatory jabs, monthly fines on 22:01 - Dec 2 with 1261 views | Ryorry |
| Mandatory jabs, monthly fines on 22:00 - Dec 2 by Mookamoo |
Didn't think the BCG was mandatory, just everyone gladly had what was offered at the time given the myriad of childhood diseases that could could kill or cripple you. There was talk of the MMR becoming mandatory for all state school pupils, but that didn't go anywhere. I think in certain US states vaccinations are mandatory for federal education.
Mrs Mookamoo has a mandatory Hep B vaccine for her work. |
Ah, cheers 👠| |
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| Mandatory jabs, monthly fines on 22:19 - Dec 2 with 1236 views | bluelagos |
Those pushing for harder restrictions on the back of the new variant may wish to consider the comments here from Professor Ferguson. Presume the longer interview will be on Newsnight shortly.
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| Mandatory jabs, monthly fines on 22:34 - Dec 2 with 1214 views | footers |
| Mandatory jabs, monthly fines on 22:19 - Dec 2 by bluelagos |
Those pushing for harder restrictions on the back of the new variant may wish to consider the comments here from Professor Ferguson. Presume the longer interview will be on Newsnight shortly.
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Is that the same Prof. Ferguson whose predictions on covid have been consistently out of whack or another? | |
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| Mandatory jabs, monthly fines on 22:37 - Dec 2 with 1204 views | StokieBlue |
| Mandatory jabs, monthly fines on 22:19 - Dec 2 by bluelagos |
Those pushing for harder restrictions on the back of the new variant may wish to consider the comments here from Professor Ferguson. Presume the longer interview will be on Newsnight shortly.
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An awful lot of people won't have a third dose until the end of January or maybe into February.
It's clear even from that sentence he's not as clear about all those people.
Am surprised he's doing an interview like that given most experts are saying wait 2 or 3 weeks but I'll watch it later.
SB |  | | |
| Mandatory jabs, monthly fines on 23:10 - Dec 2 with 1132 views | Ryorry |
| Mandatory jabs, monthly fines on 21:48 - Dec 2 by Clapham_Junction |
I wish TfL would actually fine people who refuse to wear a mask. Based on my experiences recently on the tube, they could probably claw back most of their deficit.
It's incredibly depressing how utterly selfish and inconsiderate so many people are. I know I shouldn't be surprised after what's happened politically in the last decade, but the pandemic has really shown how bad things are. Every time I go out, a little more of the hope I hold that things might get better dies. |
I know someone in a fairly senior position who works for TFL, will pass your comments on! | |
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| Mandatory jabs, monthly fines on 23:31 - Dec 2 with 1174 views | Ryorry |
| Mandatory jabs, monthly fines on 18:49 - Dec 2 by giant_stow |
That simple choice assumes mandatory vaccinations would work and get the rest of the population jabbed up. Not so sure myself... think many would dig in on principal. That's just a practical concerm - ethically, I think mandatory vaccines are horrible and set a very dangerous precident, just when other freedoms are threatened too. [Post edited 2 Dec 2021 18:51]
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"...think many would dig in on principal"
I think there's quite a lot in that, some peoples' natural tendency is to rebel against anything they're told they *must* do. Arguably childish, but what I remember most from this docu on BBC R4 this afty at 4pm was the quote from a philosopher (sorry, can't recall who) that you can't force people to agree with you, but you can get them them to *want* to agree with you -
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001214x | |
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| Mandatory jabs, monthly fines on 23:43 - Dec 2 with 1144 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Mandatory jabs, monthly fines on 22:19 - Dec 2 by bluelagos |
Those pushing for harder restrictions on the back of the new variant may wish to consider the comments here from Professor Ferguson. Presume the longer interview will be on Newsnight shortly.
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A lot of people haven’t had their 3rd dose, including anyone under about 40. Children over 12 will be lucky if they’ve had 1 dose, and those under no protection. Yet people of all ages are getting hit by this. I don’t know whether it’s representative, but we’re seeing cases around here where friends of our kids are starting to get pretty ill and suffering long term effects (long covid).
This 3rd vaccine message, whilst reassuring to older adults, ignores all of that. | |
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| Mandatory jabs, monthly fines on 06:36 - Dec 3 with 1033 views | Kropotkin123 |
Hopefully the world follows Austria's latest policy. Lockdown for the unvaccinated only. |  |
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| Mandatory jabs, monthly fines on 09:45 - Dec 5 with 917 views | StokieBlue |
| Mandatory jabs, monthly fines on 17:57 - Dec 2 by bluelagos |
I don't think that would happen as the justification for a lockdown (one of them) is to protect the NHS from being overrun. So we would presumably get to a lockdown before your scenario played out.
What I would concede was that if we have to have another lockdown, due to high rates of hospitalisations of unvaccinated patients, I'd be extremely p*ssed off with them. |
In the Times today (as just seen on Marr), doctors are saying 30% of ICU beds are occupied by covid patients and that 90% of them are unvaccinated.
So even at this point, unvaccinated people are taking up ICU beds which could be used for other people who didn't have the power to prevent their illness (unlike the unvaccinated).
SB | | | |
| Mandatory jabs, monthly fines on 10:06 - Dec 5 with 893 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Mandatory jabs, monthly fines on 09:45 - Dec 5 by StokieBlue |
In the Times today (as just seen on Marr), doctors are saying 30% of ICU beds are occupied by covid patients and that 90% of them are unvaccinated.
So even at this point, unvaccinated people are taking up ICU beds which could be used for other people who didn't have the power to prevent their illness (unlike the unvaccinated).
SB |
Are you hearing of people being denied ICU beds and are you proposing that the unvaccinated, likely disproportionately from lower socio economic and minority ethnic groups should be turned away?
This seems to be the logical inference. | |
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| Mandatory jabs, monthly fines on 10:07 - Dec 5 with 892 views | StokieBlue |
| Mandatory jabs, monthly fines on 10:06 - Dec 5 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Are you hearing of people being denied ICU beds and are you proposing that the unvaccinated, likely disproportionately from lower socio economic and minority ethnic groups should be turned away?
This seems to be the logical inference. |
If you read the thread back it was a hypothetical scenario.
The latest point was to highlight to BL that doctors are already saying something is happening which he didn't think would be the case.
Given that vaccines are free, the socio-economic status of a person is rather irrelevant isn't it?
SB [Post edited 5 Dec 2021 10:09]
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| Mandatory jabs, monthly fines on 10:09 - Dec 5 with 884 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Mandatory jabs, monthly fines on 10:07 - Dec 5 by StokieBlue |
If you read the thread back it was a hypothetical scenario.
The latest point was to highlight to BL that doctors are already saying something is happening which he didn't think would be the case.
Given that vaccines are free, the socio-economic status of a person is rather irrelevant isn't it?
SB [Post edited 5 Dec 2021 10:09]
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I realise that and just wondered if you had a settled view. | |
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