| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead 21:54 - Dec 11 with 14232 views | ElderGrizzly |
And Liz Truss odds on to be new PM.
|  | | |  |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 21:34 - Dec 12 with 1853 views | N2_Blue |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 21:18 - Dec 12 by jeera |
All you're doing is showing your ignorance to be honest. You have no idea what you're commenting on half the time but can't help yourself.
If you don't understand any underlying context then it's best to politely back off isn't it.
I'm sure you would agree in any other aspect of life.
That's that. I'm not prepared to waste time going round in circles.
You've jumped in regarding other posters and now you're moving the goalposts. You do this a lot. Stop acting like an old woman. |
With respect you know absolutely nothing about me.
Why you keep bring context into this i have no idea. I completely understand the context. This has happened multiple times on here with DK since Starmer became leader of the labour party.
I didn't ask you to get involved so yes you are wasting your own time.
As for your last line, what an absolute load of nonsense.
Feel free to ignore me. I had you on ignore for quite some time, perhaps it's time to place you back on |  |
| |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 21:37 - Dec 12 with 1834 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 21:03 - Dec 12 by jeera |
Oh always those who are different will stand out the most and attract the most interest surely?
As for "Because it’s a deep part of you. And I respect that."
I'm never telling you anything like ever again. |
😂 Please do!
I think sharing our inner vulnerability is what it’s all about. In that spirit, and keeping the Eurovision theme, I’ll raise you the Buck’s Fizz “Making Your Mind Up” skirt rip. It troubled and somewhat excited me as a 10 year old. But it felt wrong, like watching a strange family being strange. |  |
| |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 21:40 - Dec 12 with 1821 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 21:34 - Dec 12 by N2_Blue |
With respect you know absolutely nothing about me.
Why you keep bring context into this i have no idea. I completely understand the context. This has happened multiple times on here with DK since Starmer became leader of the labour party.
I didn't ask you to get involved so yes you are wasting your own time.
As for your last line, what an absolute load of nonsense.
Feel free to ignore me. I had you on ignore for quite some time, perhaps it's time to place you back on |
Put me on as well. | |
| |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 22:23 - Dec 12 with 1752 views | positivity |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 20:40 - Dec 12 by jeera |
I've never seen Mamma Mia, either one.
But I did sit through Abba - The Movie, twice at the cinema in one afternoon.
You could in those days. You paid your ticket and you could watch the next showing included.
I have no idea why I am sharing this. |
"I have no idea why I am sharing this."
are you lou carpenter trying to get some rewatch fees? |  |
| |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 22:28 - Dec 12 with 1732 views | positivity |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 21:01 - Dec 12 by Darth_Koont |
Respectfully, I disagree.
I like you, pos, but I’ve heard it all before. And we keep doing the same thing and making the same mistakes. |
i disagree too, i think you mean well, but don't give up on making a difference!
it's easy to get too cynical and miss doing good things in favour of not managing to do perfect things.
i see new mps and councillors going into the labour party, winning seats and making difference at a local level, and it gives me hope | |
| |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 22:59 - Dec 12 with 1691 views | Ryorry |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 21:34 - Dec 12 by N2_Blue |
With respect you know absolutely nothing about me.
Why you keep bring context into this i have no idea. I completely understand the context. This has happened multiple times on here with DK since Starmer became leader of the labour party.
I didn't ask you to get involved so yes you are wasting your own time.
As for your last line, what an absolute load of nonsense.
Feel free to ignore me. I had you on ignore for quite some time, perhaps it's time to place you back on |
It's actually quite interesting how tribal these party political threads always seem to get, with a handful of people prepared to twist/distort/lie to try and "win the internet" - rather like the UK's two main political parties trying to win votes. It's the hypocrisy that makes me despair though. |  |
| |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 23:52 - Dec 12 with 1651 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 22:59 - Dec 12 by Ryorry |
It's actually quite interesting how tribal these party political threads always seem to get, with a handful of people prepared to twist/distort/lie to try and "win the internet" - rather like the UK's two main political parties trying to win votes. It's the hypocrisy that makes me despair though. |
What on earth are you on about?
That’s some astonishing projection based on my interactions with you. | |
| |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 23:56 - Dec 12 with 1635 views | Ryorry |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 23:52 - Dec 12 by Darth_Koont |
What on earth are you on about?
That’s some astonishing projection based on my interactions with you. |
 | |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 00:03 - Dec 13 with 1626 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 23:56 - Dec 12 by Ryorry |
|
No, I’m serious.
You talk a lot of sh|t, and a lot of sh|t about people, and then get upset when you’re called out.
Start owning your own behaviour. | |
| |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 00:14 - Dec 13 with 1587 views | Ryorry |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 00:03 - Dec 13 by Darth_Koont |
No, I’m serious.
You talk a lot of sh|t, and a lot of sh|t about people, and then get upset when you’re called out.
Start owning your own behaviour. |
You're the one that's projecting - read the thread objectively and just stop it with the dirty debating, you'd be more likely to influence people, which I'm sure is what you'd like politically.
Pointless going on.
Edit: I do get upset when people misrepresent or lie about about me, yes, as would most people I think. I've called people out for that sh1t or when they've been unjustifiably abusive, true, but not otherwise iirc apart from obvious racism etc. Happy to stand corrected & apologise if anyone can find evidence to the contrary. [Post edited 13 Dec 2021 1:32]
| |
| |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 14:42 - Dec 13 with 1443 views | tractordownsouth |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 19:56 - Dec 12 by Darth_Koont |
Did they really reverse that? For me they cemented the UK on a path that they could have reversed during their 13 years but didn’t.
The NHS. They certainly introduced the internal market and PFIs to the NHS which have kept us on the slippery slope. They did put more into the NHS during the global economic upturn but were quite open about their belief in austerity during the downturn.
Tax rises were minimal and again with the global economic upturn this was seen as tolerable due to rising incomes. The commitment to raising taxes for a more long-term and sweeping redistribution of wealth and pay for society and infrastructure wasn’t there though. Now we’re seeing Starmer fall even at the most simple of hurdles by not being able to agree with a rise on our already very low corporate tax on profits.
Benefits: See above. In good times, yes. In bad times, austerity and cuts. Even 12 years on Starmer is only talking about tweaks that I can imagine Johnson agreeing to as well. There is no underlying defense of benefits and to see them as critical for protecting people and for actually helping boost confidence. We’re still miles from anything like UBI or, in a crisis, seeing cash go to individuals rather than employers.
Nationalism? Let’s split that into Home Nations and the UK first. New Labour did little to nothing to address the regional divide and the unbalanced, far too centralized economy. That’s left Scotland and increasingly Wales and Northern Ireland looking elsewhere. The sheer sense of betrayal that a Labour government would do nothing in 13 years of power really started everything, in Scotland at least. Instead, those Labour votes (and in the former Red Wall) were taken for granted and New Labour started aiming for the middle-class marginals that would keep it in power. Massive missed opportunity to take the country forward rather than set it on its current path. And Starmer looks even worse on that score.
As for toxic nationalism. Yes, there was a lot of dog-whistling around immigration and Muslims even during New Labour. And they also pushed heavily for the expansion of the EU that brought over Eastern Europeans. While never addressing the underlying concerns. And now we’ve got Starmer leaning into islamophobia, anti-BAME, anti-asylum seekers to somehow prove his reactionary credentials.
Same with LGBTQ+. New Labour deserve credit for pushing through anti-discrimination laws eventually but that’s a marked contrast to their rejection of these before as lunatic fringe issues. Anti-discrimination laws seemed more to be them responding to the times rather than taking leadership. Same with transphobia and identity issues now. They’re not allies until it’s electorally beneficial or at least neutral. Because it’s not about principles.
Keep the BBC? Sure. Does the Labour Right no harm whatsoever. Doesn’t really hurt the Tories either but gives them the chance to posture.
The right to protest and organize labour? Labour aren’t that interested, let’s be honest. Their defence of it has been lukewarm at best. When was the last time Labour (outside of the Corbyn years of course) actually stood up for protesters and issues? They don’t want any of it.
Unrestrained fascism? Potato/potahto. I haven’t seen any political project as authoritarian as Starmer’s Labour. The Tories with Patel and the loony backbenchers are certainly very bad, but In Starmer I don’t see some knight in shining armour holding a sword of democratic justice. I see a narrow reactionary who’s just as likely to do similar and throw in a bit of Blair’s imperialism for kicks.
Yeah, I don’t like them. 😀 And they’re stealing a living calling themselves the opposition or an alternative. Because, in actual fact, they don’t want to oppose they want to be given the reins, and get all the same power, money and influence that made Blair their poster boy.
That type of self-serving nonsense (with a media that nods along and wants their big house to keep its value and not pay any more tax) might be the nature of politics over the past couple of decades. But that’s why we are where we are, and the actual underlying issues keep getting ignored. |
I disagree with quite a lot of that but two that jump out are the bits about benefits and nationalism.
Corbyn’s 2017 manifesto was actually very regressive with regards to benefits - it pledged to keep £7bn of welfare cuts, instead pledging that money on middle class giveaways like tuition fees.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/20/labour-m
And Wales isn’t “increasing looking elsewhere” - Plaid Cymru have never matched their performance in the first Senedd elections, have only 10% of Welsh MPs and have gone backwards in the valleys (where a lot of Indy-curious Labour voters live.) The membership of YesCymru, the grassroots independence movement, has fallen since last year. Granted the Labour success at keeping Plaid Cymru at bay has been largely due to the clear red water strategy, but that’s been as much to do with competent leadership as it has with ideology - the 2019 result in Wales was Labour’s worst for years.
https://www.thenational.wales/news/19778429.yescymru-egm-membership-fallen-10-00 |  |
| |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 15:30 - Dec 13 with 1402 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 14:42 - Dec 13 by tractordownsouth |
I disagree with quite a lot of that but two that jump out are the bits about benefits and nationalism.
Corbyn’s 2017 manifesto was actually very regressive with regards to benefits - it pledged to keep £7bn of welfare cuts, instead pledging that money on middle class giveaways like tuition fees.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/20/labour-m
And Wales isn’t “increasing looking elsewhere” - Plaid Cymru have never matched their performance in the first Senedd elections, have only 10% of Welsh MPs and have gone backwards in the valleys (where a lot of Indy-curious Labour voters live.) The membership of YesCymru, the grassroots independence movement, has fallen since last year. Granted the Labour success at keeping Plaid Cymru at bay has been largely due to the clear red water strategy, but that’s been as much to do with competent leadership as it has with ideology - the 2019 result in Wales was Labour’s worst for years.
https://www.thenational.wales/news/19778429.yescymru-egm-membership-fallen-10-00 |
Bit spinny.
Did they “pledge to keep 7bn of welfare cuts”? Or did they want to review the cuts due to be implemented by Osborne and actually pledged 20bn on beefing up social security? That’s a completely different framing.
And in Wales, Labour is Welsh Labour more and more with independence also on the rise. So nothing like the branch office silliness of Scottish Labour that has been barely relevant for years. If it comes down to Drakeford and the Welsh government vs. Starmer and UK Labour I know who will win. | |
| |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 15:47 - Dec 13 with 1375 views | giant_stow |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 00:03 - Dec 13 by Darth_Koont |
No, I’m serious.
You talk a lot of sh|t, and a lot of sh|t about people, and then get upset when you’re called out.
Start owning your own behaviour. |
Leave her alone and get your own act together. |  |
| |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 16:29 - Dec 13 with 1329 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 15:47 - Dec 13 by giant_stow |
Leave her alone and get your own act together. |
I have got my act together. I give it but can also take it without playing the victim.
Oh and pipe down, Penfold. 😀 | |
| |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 16:48 - Dec 13 with 1297 views | tractordownsouth |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 15:30 - Dec 13 by Darth_Koont |
Bit spinny.
Did they “pledge to keep 7bn of welfare cuts”? Or did they want to review the cuts due to be implemented by Osborne and actually pledged 20bn on beefing up social security? That’s a completely different framing.
And in Wales, Labour is Welsh Labour more and more with independence also on the rise. So nothing like the branch office silliness of Scottish Labour that has been barely relevant for years. If it comes down to Drakeford and the Welsh government vs. Starmer and UK Labour I know who will win. |
The article goes on to say that the majority of cuts would still have been implemented, reversing them could have been paid for had they not pandered to the middle classes with the tuition fee policy.
If independence in Wales is anywhere near close why did Plaid Cymru go backwards in almost every marginal seat in the most recent election? They stood on a platform of independence and completely bombed, because Adam Price spent the whole campaign using rhetoric which only appealed to those who were already true believers - stuff about Wales being an English colony that needed reparations. Mark Drakeford is an excellent leader and everything that Corbyn isn’t - unashamedly patriotic, pragmatic, likeable and on the left without a history of support for authoritarian regimes and questionable characters. If there was someone on the Labour left at a UK level who could do the same I’d be fully supportive of them but there isn’t an equivalent figure. | |
| |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 17:25 - Dec 13 with 1263 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 16:48 - Dec 13 by tractordownsouth |
The article goes on to say that the majority of cuts would still have been implemented, reversing them could have been paid for had they not pandered to the middle classes with the tuition fee policy.
If independence in Wales is anywhere near close why did Plaid Cymru go backwards in almost every marginal seat in the most recent election? They stood on a platform of independence and completely bombed, because Adam Price spent the whole campaign using rhetoric which only appealed to those who were already true believers - stuff about Wales being an English colony that needed reparations. Mark Drakeford is an excellent leader and everything that Corbyn isn’t - unashamedly patriotic, pragmatic, likeable and on the left without a history of support for authoritarian regimes and questionable characters. If there was someone on the Labour left at a UK level who could do the same I’d be fully supportive of them but there isn’t an equivalent figure. |
Haha! Conveniently ignored the £20 bn didn’t you? So depressingly “on message” when it’s so easy to disprove.
I didn’t mention Plaid. I’m talking about rising independence even with a Welsh Labour government. But one who doesn’t ally itself with the Tories in order to fight for the Union. In fact, the Welsh government has been relatively neutral. Scottish Labour should take a leaf if they want to be relevant at all in Scotland.
I think Mark Drakeford has a lot more in common with Corbyn than Starmer and you know it. Such a shame that the UK won’t have the benefit of a left-winger who cares for people. | |
| |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 19:38 - Dec 13 with 1173 views | tractordownsouth |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 17:25 - Dec 13 by Darth_Koont |
Haha! Conveniently ignored the £20 bn didn’t you? So depressingly “on message” when it’s so easy to disprove.
I didn’t mention Plaid. I’m talking about rising independence even with a Welsh Labour government. But one who doesn’t ally itself with the Tories in order to fight for the Union. In fact, the Welsh government has been relatively neutral. Scottish Labour should take a leaf if they want to be relevant at all in Scotland.
I think Mark Drakeford has a lot more in common with Corbyn than Starmer and you know it. Such a shame that the UK won’t have the benefit of a left-winger who cares for people. |
I didn’t ignore it - £20bn for other measures sounds great but the independent charity’s findings didn’t think the whole package was progressive or that enough was done to reverse the Osborne cuts.
As someone who spends most of the year in Wales, the Welsh government has been anything but neutral on the union. I remember Drakeford going after Price for it in the first TV debate for example - Welsh Labour often makes references to being proudly Welsh within the UK. During the Senedd elections I knocked on hundreds of doors in areas with similar demographics to the seats that deserted UK Labour en masse in 2019 yet I never heard any accusations of associations with questionable regimes or a lack of patriotism from Drakeford. In Wales there are plenty of Labour left candidates with widespread appeal, yet I don’t see anyone of the same faction who could do the same in England. Granted it’s a more right-wing country than Wales so it’s a tougher job but who would be the equivalent - Lloyd Russell Moyle, Clive Lewis?? They aren’t on the same level. | |
| |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 20:38 - Dec 13 with 1122 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 19:38 - Dec 13 by tractordownsouth |
I didn’t ignore it - £20bn for other measures sounds great but the independent charity’s findings didn’t think the whole package was progressive or that enough was done to reverse the Osborne cuts.
As someone who spends most of the year in Wales, the Welsh government has been anything but neutral on the union. I remember Drakeford going after Price for it in the first TV debate for example - Welsh Labour often makes references to being proudly Welsh within the UK. During the Senedd elections I knocked on hundreds of doors in areas with similar demographics to the seats that deserted UK Labour en masse in 2019 yet I never heard any accusations of associations with questionable regimes or a lack of patriotism from Drakeford. In Wales there are plenty of Labour left candidates with widespread appeal, yet I don’t see anyone of the same faction who could do the same in England. Granted it’s a more right-wing country than Wales so it’s a tougher job but who would be the equivalent - Lloyd Russell Moyle, Clive Lewis?? They aren’t on the same level. |
No, it wasn’t the whole package. It was on the specific point of Osborne’s already planned cuts. They didn’t address the 20 bn. This is the stupidity of what was going on – even the Guardian framed it negatively and buried the details in the text.
I didn’t say Welsh Labour are pushing for independence but they’re nothing like Scottish Labour and Starmer in trying to ignore it and play dirty tricks instead. But maybe that’s because Welsh Labour is in the ascendancy and in power, but maybe that will change in a few years if the recent rise from 15% to 30% in favour of independence gets into the 40s.
But when push comes to shove I can see Welsh Labour refusing to go down the Westminster route and demanding much more for Wales. If UK Labour have learnt anything from Scotland then they should stand up more for the regions and against the perceived interests of England. That’s the where the breaking point will come.
But if I felt UK Labour had a clue about anything beyond their bubble and their own personal interests then we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
On a side note, what future does the left have within the party when someone as thoroughly awful as Matt Faulding is rumoured to become in charge of MP selections? Why should I ever vote for a party like that? | |
| |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 20:46 - Dec 13 with 1102 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 19:38 - Dec 13 by tractordownsouth |
I didn’t ignore it - £20bn for other measures sounds great but the independent charity’s findings didn’t think the whole package was progressive or that enough was done to reverse the Osborne cuts.
As someone who spends most of the year in Wales, the Welsh government has been anything but neutral on the union. I remember Drakeford going after Price for it in the first TV debate for example - Welsh Labour often makes references to being proudly Welsh within the UK. During the Senedd elections I knocked on hundreds of doors in areas with similar demographics to the seats that deserted UK Labour en masse in 2019 yet I never heard any accusations of associations with questionable regimes or a lack of patriotism from Drakeford. In Wales there are plenty of Labour left candidates with widespread appeal, yet I don’t see anyone of the same faction who could do the same in England. Granted it’s a more right-wing country than Wales so it’s a tougher job but who would be the equivalent - Lloyd Russell Moyle, Clive Lewis?? They aren’t on the same level. |
And why didn’t you hear negative stuff on the doorstep about Drakeford? Maybe he wasn’t subjected to the worst, most sustained and yet least evidenced smear campaign any UK politician has ever experienced?
It was a scandal and a shameful low for the UK. And I don’t trust anyone on political matters who just nodded along to it. | |
| |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 21:08 - Dec 13 with 1064 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 20:46 - Dec 13 by Darth_Koont |
And why didn’t you hear negative stuff on the doorstep about Drakeford? Maybe he wasn’t subjected to the worst, most sustained and yet least evidenced smear campaign any UK politician has ever experienced?
It was a scandal and a shameful low for the UK. And I don’t trust anyone on political matters who just nodded along to it. |
Don’t worry, there’s plenty against ‘Dripford’ as he’s often referred to. The same simplistic name calling and willy waving plays out over here, just we’re of less interest to the national press. Right wing political commentators online are valiantly carrying on the battle though. And the Welsh Tories and Unionists are happy to project English anti-Labour sentiment onto Welsh Labour. They’re also more than happy to accuse him of failing due to actions of the UK govt (e.g. UK austerity choices hitting parts of the public sector in Wales). |  |
| |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 21:16 - Dec 13 with 1059 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 21:08 - Dec 13 by Swansea_Blue |
Don’t worry, there’s plenty against ‘Dripford’ as he’s often referred to. The same simplistic name calling and willy waving plays out over here, just we’re of less interest to the national press. Right wing political commentators online are valiantly carrying on the battle though. And the Welsh Tories and Unionists are happy to project English anti-Labour sentiment onto Welsh Labour. They’re also more than happy to accuse him of failing due to actions of the UK govt (e.g. UK austerity choices hitting parts of the public sector in Wales). |
Glad to hear it’s not really affecting him.
When the national press started marching in formation, it’s a different beast. Which is why they had such a serious effect on Corbyn’s reputation as a UK politician but have done nothing in Scotland against the SNP where they’re largely ignored.
I think Drakeford will ultimately be OK too. | |
| |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 21:37 - Dec 13 with 1044 views | tractordownsouth |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 20:38 - Dec 13 by Darth_Koont |
No, it wasn’t the whole package. It was on the specific point of Osborne’s already planned cuts. They didn’t address the 20 bn. This is the stupidity of what was going on – even the Guardian framed it negatively and buried the details in the text.
I didn’t say Welsh Labour are pushing for independence but they’re nothing like Scottish Labour and Starmer in trying to ignore it and play dirty tricks instead. But maybe that’s because Welsh Labour is in the ascendancy and in power, but maybe that will change in a few years if the recent rise from 15% to 30% in favour of independence gets into the 40s.
But when push comes to shove I can see Welsh Labour refusing to go down the Westminster route and demanding much more for Wales. If UK Labour have learnt anything from Scotland then they should stand up more for the regions and against the perceived interests of England. That’s the where the breaking point will come.
But if I felt UK Labour had a clue about anything beyond their bubble and their own personal interests then we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
On a side note, what future does the left have within the party when someone as thoroughly awful as Matt Faulding is rumoured to become in charge of MP selections? Why should I ever vote for a party like that? |
No idea who Matt Faulding is - I just googled his name and the rumour seems to have come from Aaron Bastani so I'd take that with a pinch of salt.
I'd be happy to have more devolution and distinct Welsh identity, there's nothing wrong with that. And as for your point below, yes JC got a rough deal with the media compared to the Tories, but as with any leader you need a strategy to combat that. Plus it wasn't the media's fault he took the stance he did over Skripal or made that Facebook comment over the mural, just to give two examples. If you don't want the media to report it, then surely don't do it? I didn't see anyone in the Welsh Labour leadership do anything similar, so the papers didn't report it. | |
| |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 22:18 - Dec 13 with 1006 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 21:37 - Dec 13 by tractordownsouth |
No idea who Matt Faulding is - I just googled his name and the rumour seems to have come from Aaron Bastani so I'd take that with a pinch of salt.
I'd be happy to have more devolution and distinct Welsh identity, there's nothing wrong with that. And as for your point below, yes JC got a rough deal with the media compared to the Tories, but as with any leader you need a strategy to combat that. Plus it wasn't the media's fault he took the stance he did over Skripal or made that Facebook comment over the mural, just to give two examples. If you don't want the media to report it, then surely don't do it? I didn't see anyone in the Welsh Labour leadership do anything similar, so the papers didn't report it. |
Unfortunately, Faulding is exactly the sort of person they’ll choose. This is the Labour Party Mandelson and his ilk want and have always dreamed of.
What do you mean “any leader” should expect it or deal with it? And “don’t do stuff”?? If it wasn’t made up it was embellished and re-framed. Even Skripal and the mural.
You know this. But if you’re saying you really don’t, then let’s go into the detail. The detail has never been a problem.
Where do you want to start? Take the low-hanging fruit by all means. | |
| |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 23:04 - Dec 13 with 969 views | tractordownsouth |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 22:18 - Dec 13 by Darth_Koont |
Unfortunately, Faulding is exactly the sort of person they’ll choose. This is the Labour Party Mandelson and his ilk want and have always dreamed of.
What do you mean “any leader” should expect it or deal with it? And “don’t do stuff”?? If it wasn’t made up it was embellished and re-framed. Even Skripal and the mural.
You know this. But if you’re saying you really don’t, then let’s go into the detail. The detail has never been a problem.
Where do you want to start? Take the low-hanging fruit by all means. |
You can explain it if you like, I just don't think any political movement whatever its stripe will ever benefit from blaming the media for all its failings. | |
| |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 08:07 - Dec 14 with 878 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 23:04 - Dec 13 by tractordownsouth |
You can explain it if you like, I just don't think any political movement whatever its stripe will ever benefit from blaming the media for all its failings. |
Predictably glib statement considering the reality of his treatment by the media.
And it wasn’t “all its failings” either. You also had the ever-present briefings, coups, breakaways and sabotage from within the PLP and at Labour HQ.
The odd thing is that with all that media coverage and vitriol from within the party,
many are now suggesting that Starmer critics like me on Internet forums and Twitter are enabling the Tories. And getting pretty adamant about it too.
With a sympathetic media and a PLP playing ball, what does that say about the failings of Starmer? Or are they wrong to even suggest it? | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
