| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead 21:54 - Dec 11 with 14254 views | ElderGrizzly |
And Liz Truss odds on to be new PM.
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 08:41 - Dec 14 with 836 views | giant_stow |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 08:07 - Dec 14 by Darth_Koont |
Predictably glib statement considering the reality of his treatment by the media.
And it wasn’t “all its failings” either. You also had the ever-present briefings, coups, breakaways and sabotage from within the PLP and at Labour HQ.
The odd thing is that with all that media coverage and vitriol from within the party,
many are now suggesting that Starmer critics like me on Internet forums and Twitter are enabling the Tories. And getting pretty adamant about it too.
With a sympathetic media and a PLP playing ball, what does that say about the failings of Starmer? Or are they wrong to even suggest it? |
This uptick in the polls for Labour really is hurting you innit. Says so much. |  |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 09:43 - Dec 14 with 794 views | tractordownsouth |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 08:07 - Dec 14 by Darth_Koont |
Predictably glib statement considering the reality of his treatment by the media.
And it wasn’t “all its failings” either. You also had the ever-present briefings, coups, breakaways and sabotage from within the PLP and at Labour HQ.
The odd thing is that with all that media coverage and vitriol from within the party,
many are now suggesting that Starmer critics like me on Internet forums and Twitter are enabling the Tories. And getting pretty adamant about it too.
With a sympathetic media and a PLP playing ball, what does that say about the failings of Starmer? Or are they wrong to even suggest it? |
No, I don't think a few anti-Starmer Twitter posts will have an effect on the General Election result. As for the failings, I'll flip the question round - can you name a single thing JC did wrong that wasn't someone else's fault? |  |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 09:55 - Dec 14 with 781 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 08:41 - Dec 14 by giant_stow |
This uptick in the polls for Labour really is hurting you innit. Says so much. |
Pray for koonters. |  |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 10:12 - Dec 14 with 763 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 08:41 - Dec 14 by giant_stow |
This uptick in the polls for Labour really is hurting you innit. Says so much. |
You bully. 😢
Starmer et al are just another step in the overall slide right. Why would this hurt any more than everything else over the years? |  |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 10:19 - Dec 14 with 750 views | PassionNotAnger |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 08:07 - Dec 14 by Darth_Koont |
Predictably glib statement considering the reality of his treatment by the media.
And it wasn’t “all its failings” either. You also had the ever-present briefings, coups, breakaways and sabotage from within the PLP and at Labour HQ.
The odd thing is that with all that media coverage and vitriol from within the party,
many are now suggesting that Starmer critics like me on Internet forums and Twitter are enabling the Tories. And getting pretty adamant about it too.
With a sympathetic media and a PLP playing ball, what does that say about the failings of Starmer? Or are they wrong to even suggest it? |
It's probably because you are a one-record Juke box continually playing the same tune on repeat and not capable of changing track.
It's dull repetitive and reinforces the perception of the Cult of Corbyn.
Corbyn was unelectable for a variety of reasons - some outside of his control (media agenda etc) but the person he was/is most definitely was a contributing factor. |  | | |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 10:42 - Dec 14 with 736 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 09:43 - Dec 14 by tractordownsouth |
No, I don't think a few anti-Starmer Twitter posts will have an effect on the General Election result. As for the failings, I'll flip the question round - can you name a single thing JC did wrong that wasn't someone else's fault? |
So, why are people so agitated by the criticism?
Generally, Corbyn was profoundly unsuited as a party leader in the UK political and political media landscape. It’s swings and roundabouts because not playing the game was part of his appeal. But he probably could have been more expedient.
He should have also been a lot more ruthless re: the moves against him especially within Labour HQ and should have rejected the antisemitism nonsense much earlier and much more firmly. It would certainly have been pretty unsightly but trying to manage it reasonably with the Chakrabarti Report and addressing antisemitism complaints without addressing the people and process involved made him a sitting duck. He completely misjudged how that smear campaign would develop and be embraced enthusiastically by all his enemies, even without the evidence to back it up. Ultimately he was too naive/too rigid in his approach when he should have been nipping this in the bud from the start.
Slightly connected there was also the position on Brexit. While there was a majority of Labour members that were Remainers and/or wanted a second referendum, it became electoral suicide to talk about a compromise and allow Labour to be painted as an undemocratic and largely Remain party. My mistake too, as I thought that a compromise position was the only way back from the brink but there was zero appetite for that with Leavers, and next to no buyer’s remorse either. So it entrenched the debate and lost Labour voters in the seats Labour needed to win as a baseline.
Labour have lost Scotland by ignoring the issues, now they did the same in the Red Wall (perception at least) by ignoring Brexit. If Corbyn and his advisers should have known this or at least researched it but went along anyway. And largely to keep a Labour Party together with breakaways from Change UK etc. threatening the party. But that proved the dampest of squibs.
So all in all, his strengths were his weaknesses (as they are for most of us). Because sticking with principles at the wrong time, when he needed to adapt and fight for the principles in the long term, was a huge error and misjudgement.
But to return to the underlying point beyond Corbyn, that’s the very same “political reality” we’ve accepted that’s given us BoJo and a non-opposition, non-alternative like Starmer. At some point, you’d like to think the penny will drop. | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 10:49 - Dec 14 with 721 views | Ryorry |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 08:41 - Dec 14 by giant_stow |
This uptick in the polls for Labour really is hurting you innit. Says so much. |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 10:55 - Dec 14 with 712 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 10:42 - Dec 14 by Darth_Koont |
So, why are people so agitated by the criticism?
Generally, Corbyn was profoundly unsuited as a party leader in the UK political and political media landscape. It’s swings and roundabouts because not playing the game was part of his appeal. But he probably could have been more expedient.
He should have also been a lot more ruthless re: the moves against him especially within Labour HQ and should have rejected the antisemitism nonsense much earlier and much more firmly. It would certainly have been pretty unsightly but trying to manage it reasonably with the Chakrabarti Report and addressing antisemitism complaints without addressing the people and process involved made him a sitting duck. He completely misjudged how that smear campaign would develop and be embraced enthusiastically by all his enemies, even without the evidence to back it up. Ultimately he was too naive/too rigid in his approach when he should have been nipping this in the bud from the start.
Slightly connected there was also the position on Brexit. While there was a majority of Labour members that were Remainers and/or wanted a second referendum, it became electoral suicide to talk about a compromise and allow Labour to be painted as an undemocratic and largely Remain party. My mistake too, as I thought that a compromise position was the only way back from the brink but there was zero appetite for that with Leavers, and next to no buyer’s remorse either. So it entrenched the debate and lost Labour voters in the seats Labour needed to win as a baseline.
Labour have lost Scotland by ignoring the issues, now they did the same in the Red Wall (perception at least) by ignoring Brexit. If Corbyn and his advisers should have known this or at least researched it but went along anyway. And largely to keep a Labour Party together with breakaways from Change UK etc. threatening the party. But that proved the dampest of squibs.
So all in all, his strengths were his weaknesses (as they are for most of us). Because sticking with principles at the wrong time, when he needed to adapt and fight for the principles in the long term, was a huge error and misjudgement.
But to return to the underlying point beyond Corbyn, that’s the very same “political reality” we’ve accepted that’s given us BoJo and a non-opposition, non-alternative like Starmer. At some point, you’d like to think the penny will drop. |
Even after the EHRC report you are still calling Labour’s antisemitism issues “nonsense” and a “smear campaign”.
Yet you still get upset when it’s pointed out that you are an apologist for antisemitism. | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 10:55 - Dec 14 with 713 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 10:19 - Dec 14 by PassionNotAnger |
It's probably because you are a one-record Juke box continually playing the same tune on repeat and not capable of changing track.
It's dull repetitive and reinforces the perception of the Cult of Corbyn.
Corbyn was unelectable for a variety of reasons - some outside of his control (media agenda etc) but the person he was/is most definitely was a contributing factor. |
I talk about the underlying issues, not just Corbyn. It’s not and never has been about him per se.
So I think you’ve read that completely wrong. Maybe you just have a dull, repetitive mind filled with perceptions? | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 11:01 - Dec 14 with 685 views | lowhouseblue |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 10:42 - Dec 14 by Darth_Koont |
So, why are people so agitated by the criticism?
Generally, Corbyn was profoundly unsuited as a party leader in the UK political and political media landscape. It’s swings and roundabouts because not playing the game was part of his appeal. But he probably could have been more expedient.
He should have also been a lot more ruthless re: the moves against him especially within Labour HQ and should have rejected the antisemitism nonsense much earlier and much more firmly. It would certainly have been pretty unsightly but trying to manage it reasonably with the Chakrabarti Report and addressing antisemitism complaints without addressing the people and process involved made him a sitting duck. He completely misjudged how that smear campaign would develop and be embraced enthusiastically by all his enemies, even without the evidence to back it up. Ultimately he was too naive/too rigid in his approach when he should have been nipping this in the bud from the start.
Slightly connected there was also the position on Brexit. While there was a majority of Labour members that were Remainers and/or wanted a second referendum, it became electoral suicide to talk about a compromise and allow Labour to be painted as an undemocratic and largely Remain party. My mistake too, as I thought that a compromise position was the only way back from the brink but there was zero appetite for that with Leavers, and next to no buyer’s remorse either. So it entrenched the debate and lost Labour voters in the seats Labour needed to win as a baseline.
Labour have lost Scotland by ignoring the issues, now they did the same in the Red Wall (perception at least) by ignoring Brexit. If Corbyn and his advisers should have known this or at least researched it but went along anyway. And largely to keep a Labour Party together with breakaways from Change UK etc. threatening the party. But that proved the dampest of squibs.
So all in all, his strengths were his weaknesses (as they are for most of us). Because sticking with principles at the wrong time, when he needed to adapt and fight for the principles in the long term, was a huge error and misjudgement.
But to return to the underlying point beyond Corbyn, that’s the very same “political reality” we’ve accepted that’s given us BoJo and a non-opposition, non-alternative like Starmer. At some point, you’d like to think the penny will drop. |
"should have rejected the antisemitism nonsense ... that smear campaign".
jeez, you never stop. what a hole to have dug yourself into. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 11:01 - Dec 14 with 683 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 10:55 - Dec 14 by GlasgowBlue |
Even after the EHRC report you are still calling Labour’s antisemitism issues “nonsense” and a “smear campaign”.
Yet you still get upset when it’s pointed out that you are an apologist for antisemitism. |
Do you really want to go back to that?
You know exactly what I’m talking about. If Corbyn was an antisemite, he’d be out of the party or you’d be complaining about Starmer and Labour not doing enough about AS.
That part, and a lot of smearing of others, is bullsh/t and you know it.
As for the EHRC report saying there is antisemitism in Labour or that the complaints process wasn’t good enough in real terms, I have no issue with that. The evidence is there and always was. | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 11:03 - Dec 14 with 671 views | lowhouseblue |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 10:55 - Dec 14 by GlasgowBlue |
Even after the EHRC report you are still calling Labour’s antisemitism issues “nonsense” and a “smear campaign”.
Yet you still get upset when it’s pointed out that you are an apologist for antisemitism. |
except he doesn't apologise for it - he just dismisses and denies it for political purposes.
an apology would really not go amiss, but it's all now an article of faith to him. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 11:08 - Dec 14 with 639 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 11:01 - Dec 14 by lowhouseblue |
"should have rejected the antisemitism nonsense ... that smear campaign".
jeez, you never stop. what a hole to have dug yourself into. |
See above.
Obviously, you’ll have to do some dodging but what’s new? | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 11:10 - Dec 14 with 627 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 11:03 - Dec 14 by lowhouseblue |
except he doesn't apologise for it - he just dismisses and denies it for political purposes.
an apology would really not go amiss, but it's all now an article of faith to him. |
You can’t back up your accusations so give it up. | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 11:13 - Dec 14 with 612 views | lowhouseblue |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 11:10 - Dec 14 by Darth_Koont |
You can’t back up your accusations so give it up. |
i've just quoted you doing it. but i'm absolutely NOT doing all this again. seriously, seek help - denying and dismissing anti-semitism because it's politically convenient is really unpleasant. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 11:16 - Dec 14 with 594 views | unbelievablue |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 11:01 - Dec 14 by Darth_Koont |
Do you really want to go back to that?
You know exactly what I’m talking about. If Corbyn was an antisemite, he’d be out of the party or you’d be complaining about Starmer and Labour not doing enough about AS.
That part, and a lot of smearing of others, is bullsh/t and you know it.
As for the EHRC report saying there is antisemitism in Labour or that the complaints process wasn’t good enough in real terms, I have no issue with that. The evidence is there and always was. |
I like JC, still do, in spite of a lot. The straw that broke the camels back for me (hence the renouncing of membership) was his handling of this mess. I have my own conclusions about him personally with regards to antisemitism, but it really is less important than how he handled it all. |  |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 11:20 - Dec 14 with 580 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 11:13 - Dec 14 by lowhouseblue |
i've just quoted you doing it. but i'm absolutely NOT doing all this again. seriously, seek help - denying and dismissing anti-semitism because it's politically convenient is really unpleasant. |
Just stop lying. I’ve explained it in the post to GB. No denial or dismissal of antisemitism there.
You know you have nothing to make the big lie stick. Except repeated accusations that still don’t stack up. | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 11:25 - Dec 14 with 563 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 11:16 - Dec 14 by unbelievablue |
I like JC, still do, in spite of a lot. The straw that broke the camels back for me (hence the renouncing of membership) was his handling of this mess. I have my own conclusions about him personally with regards to antisemitism, but it really is less important than how he handled it all. |
On how he handled it, the EHRC report itself is pretty good. And pretty much goes against the Panorama depiction.
The EHRC censured him for getting involved to speed up the processing of AS complaints and disciplinary action. | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 11:30 - Dec 14 with 540 views | tractordownsouth |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 10:42 - Dec 14 by Darth_Koont |
So, why are people so agitated by the criticism?
Generally, Corbyn was profoundly unsuited as a party leader in the UK political and political media landscape. It’s swings and roundabouts because not playing the game was part of his appeal. But he probably could have been more expedient.
He should have also been a lot more ruthless re: the moves against him especially within Labour HQ and should have rejected the antisemitism nonsense much earlier and much more firmly. It would certainly have been pretty unsightly but trying to manage it reasonably with the Chakrabarti Report and addressing antisemitism complaints without addressing the people and process involved made him a sitting duck. He completely misjudged how that smear campaign would develop and be embraced enthusiastically by all his enemies, even without the evidence to back it up. Ultimately he was too naive/too rigid in his approach when he should have been nipping this in the bud from the start.
Slightly connected there was also the position on Brexit. While there was a majority of Labour members that were Remainers and/or wanted a second referendum, it became electoral suicide to talk about a compromise and allow Labour to be painted as an undemocratic and largely Remain party. My mistake too, as I thought that a compromise position was the only way back from the brink but there was zero appetite for that with Leavers, and next to no buyer’s remorse either. So it entrenched the debate and lost Labour voters in the seats Labour needed to win as a baseline.
Labour have lost Scotland by ignoring the issues, now they did the same in the Red Wall (perception at least) by ignoring Brexit. If Corbyn and his advisers should have known this or at least researched it but went along anyway. And largely to keep a Labour Party together with breakaways from Change UK etc. threatening the party. But that proved the dampest of squibs.
So all in all, his strengths were his weaknesses (as they are for most of us). Because sticking with principles at the wrong time, when he needed to adapt and fight for the principles in the long term, was a huge error and misjudgement.
But to return to the underlying point beyond Corbyn, that’s the very same “political reality” we’ve accepted that’s given us BoJo and a non-opposition, non-alternative like Starmer. At some point, you’d like to think the penny will drop. |
I share the same view on Brexit - I thought it was a reasonable compromise at the time but the electoral geography made the referendum option a poor decision in the end. Backing May's agreement, once they had secured the workers' rights amendment would have been the best option. Labour could have claimed to be the party supporting the will of the people and the Tories would have descended into civil war.
That anti-semitism paragraph is very poor though - the vast majority of Jews don't agree. To be honest I didn't recognise it myself until too late - I didn't really know much about terms like zionism, or the historic stereotypes/conspiracy theories which made things like the mural problematic and racist. Eventually you surely have to concede that when the majority of Jewish Labour MPs felt unhappy under his leadership, and some even left the party, that he shares at least some culpability? | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 11:36 - Dec 14 with 534 views | unbelievablue |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 11:25 - Dec 14 by Darth_Koont |
On how he handled it, the EHRC report itself is pretty good. And pretty much goes against the Panorama depiction.
The EHRC censured him for getting involved to speed up the processing of AS complaints and disciplinary action. |
And yet he rejected the findings, publicly. | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 11:39 - Dec 14 with 526 views | footers |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 12:20 - Dec 14 with 484 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 11:20 - Dec 14 by Darth_Koont |
Just stop lying. I’ve explained it in the post to GB. No denial or dismissal of antisemitism there.
You know you have nothing to make the big lie stick. Except repeated accusations that still don’t stack up. |
So it was another Darth Koont who agreed with Pete Wilsman's antisemitic trope that 68 rabbis were organised by the Israeli embassy to complain about "severe" anti-Semitism within Labour. 5th reply in.
https://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/459669/page:1
Was it another Drath Koont who accused Luciana Berger of "editorializing" the antisemitic attacks she was receiving?
Who was the imposter pretending to be Darth Koont who could see nothing wrong with the antisemitic mural that Corbyn had previously defended?
It must have definitely been another Darth Koont who constantly shouted "smears" and "Israel lobby" every time a new example of antisemitism under Corbyn's Labour was reported.
Your entire posting history on the subject reads like a page of examples in the EHRC report.
If you were a member of the Labour party, your posting history would have seen you suspended. | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 12:22 - Dec 14 with 482 views | unbelievablue |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 12:20 - Dec 14 by GlasgowBlue |
So it was another Darth Koont who agreed with Pete Wilsman's antisemitic trope that 68 rabbis were organised by the Israeli embassy to complain about "severe" anti-Semitism within Labour. 5th reply in.
https://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/459669/page:1
Was it another Drath Koont who accused Luciana Berger of "editorializing" the antisemitic attacks she was receiving?
Who was the imposter pretending to be Darth Koont who could see nothing wrong with the antisemitic mural that Corbyn had previously defended?
It must have definitely been another Darth Koont who constantly shouted "smears" and "Israel lobby" every time a new example of antisemitism under Corbyn's Labour was reported.
Your entire posting history on the subject reads like a page of examples in the EHRC report.
If you were a member of the Labour party, your posting history would have seen you suspended. |
"If you were a member of the Labour party, your posting history would have seen you suspended."
After a long, protracted, inconsistent investigation. | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 13:57 - Dec 14 with 417 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 11:36 - Dec 14 by unbelievablue |
And yet he rejected the findings, publicly. |
Not really. He agreed with the recommendations. But also addressed the smear campaign.
I think he had every right to defend himself on the wider accusations that the EHRC certainly didn’t give any credence too. Timing wasn’t perfect obviously but the agreed response was bungled/mismanaged from Starmer and the leadership office too. | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 14:04 - Dec 14 with 410 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 12:20 - Dec 14 by GlasgowBlue |
So it was another Darth Koont who agreed with Pete Wilsman's antisemitic trope that 68 rabbis were organised by the Israeli embassy to complain about "severe" anti-Semitism within Labour. 5th reply in.
https://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/459669/page:1
Was it another Drath Koont who accused Luciana Berger of "editorializing" the antisemitic attacks she was receiving?
Who was the imposter pretending to be Darth Koont who could see nothing wrong with the antisemitic mural that Corbyn had previously defended?
It must have definitely been another Darth Koont who constantly shouted "smears" and "Israel lobby" every time a new example of antisemitism under Corbyn's Labour was reported.
Your entire posting history on the subject reads like a page of examples in the EHRC report.
If you were a member of the Labour party, your posting history would have seen you suspended. |
Smeary Christmas to you too. 😀
I’ve explained these things to you on countless occasions. And yet you keep coming back with the same bad faith accusations.
Obviously, disingenuous politics works. But jeez, where’s your integrity? | |
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