| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead 21:54 - Dec 11 with 14226 views | ElderGrizzly |
And Liz Truss odds on to be new PM.
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 15:33 - Dec 12 with 768 views | footers |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 15:23 - Dec 12 by unbelievablue |
I was one of those who would not vote for Labour under Corbyn, and renounced my membership too. |
Then you'd better expect a pile-on from all the enlightened centrists in this thred who think those of us who won't vote for Labour under Starmer are enablers.
Unless it only works one way, of course... |  |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 15:34 - Dec 12 with 766 views | tractordownsouth |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 14:16 - Dec 12 by Darth_Koont |
Sure. As I mentioned, the smears were important as well for those who clearly took the Corbyn stuff as read. But in 2019 it was Brexit that dominated.
What brought people back to Labour under Corbyn despite the PLP and an unsympathetic media’s portrayal? It’s swings and roundabouts in terms of those attracted or put off by Corbyn’s Leadership but the difference in 2017 was that Brexit wasn’t the defining theme. |
In 2017 the media coverage wasn’t exactly favourable either though. |  |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 15:36 - Dec 12 with 751 views | unbelievablue |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 15:33 - Dec 12 by footers |
Then you'd better expect a pile-on from all the enlightened centrists in this thred who think those of us who won't vote for Labour under Starmer are enablers.
Unless it only works one way, of course... |
Unfortunately nothing much about the past two incarnations of Labour (at national level) talks to me any more. I am a Green party member and likely to vote Green at most elections unless I see a compelling local reason to vote Labour. |  |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 15:44 - Dec 12 with 737 views | Ryorry |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 15:36 - Dec 12 by unbelievablue |
Unfortunately nothing much about the past two incarnations of Labour (at national level) talks to me any more. I am a Green party member and likely to vote Green at most elections unless I see a compelling local reason to vote Labour. |
If everyone else who usually votes Labour, plus any tory voters now seeing the light, agreed to do the same, that'd be a grand result.
You just need to persuade multiple millions around the UK to do same & all manner of thing will be well :) 👠|  |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 15:49 - Dec 12 with 726 views | unbelievablue |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 15:44 - Dec 12 by Ryorry |
If everyone else who usually votes Labour, plus any tory voters now seeing the light, agreed to do the same, that'd be a grand result.
You just need to persuade multiple millions around the UK to do same & all manner of thing will be well :) 👠|
I long since gave up any sincere political activism, but I do put across my views as honestly as possible with those willing to listen.
In my short time on this rock I've voted 3 different ways (no prizes for guessing), but never abstained. That said, I've lost a great deal of faith in the 'system' the past few years. It seems more immature than ever. Sad times. | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 16:06 - Dec 12 with 688 views | positivity |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 15:18 - Dec 12 by Darth_Koont |
I think it needs a path outside the traditional two-party setup. I agree nothing is going to change with those two as they are.
A bit like UKIP but a force for good. I’d see it largely as a genuine social democratic, green and PR movement for change. That like UKIP makes the parties come to it rather than trying to find legitimacy on their terms. |
that's the kind of argument that is worth having, when you have a stable party in charge. not when it's led by a load of crazed right-wing zealots.
we need to get rid of them asap not wait for a mythical path to evolve. it's too important to quibble on minor tweaks |  |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 16:09 - Dec 12 with 680 views | positivity |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 15:24 - Dec 12 by pointofblue |
So a figurehead is needed. Nigel Farage managed to channel public opinion and be a strong enough orator to sell ideas beyond those already on board. Maybe there was a feeling Corbyn would be that person but he was easy pray to the press and he struggled to get his thoughts across to those who need to be swayed. But I think a likeable figurehead would pick up a lot of the slack; the question is who. |
corbyn was the left-farage, but without rich backers or enough charisma. he was also a poor leader.
burnham would be a good alternative if starmer doesn't manage it | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 16:12 - Dec 12 with 672 views | unbelievablue |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 16:09 - Dec 12 by positivity |
corbyn was the left-farage, but without rich backers or enough charisma. he was also a poor leader.
burnham would be a good alternative if starmer doesn't manage it |
I fear that Burnham has distanced himself too much from the London liberals, especially in rhetoric, to maintain a strong enough grasp over the entirety of the party. | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 16:13 - Dec 12 with 669 views | positivity |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 15:23 - Dec 12 by unbelievablue |
I was one of those who would not vote for Labour under Corbyn, and renounced my membership too. |
don't renounce your membership, stay in and change from within.
a corbyn governement would've been a 100 times better than boris' shower.
chances are he'd have made almost as many gaffes as boris and be replaced by someone a bit more savvy by now. he wouldn't have the tory press to protect him... | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 16:14 - Dec 12 with 666 views | unbelievablue |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 16:13 - Dec 12 by positivity |
don't renounce your membership, stay in and change from within.
a corbyn governement would've been a 100 times better than boris' shower.
chances are he'd have made almost as many gaffes as boris and be replaced by someone a bit more savvy by now. he wouldn't have the tory press to protect him... |
That ship has long since sailed. See my other post re: current thinking/disillusionment. | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 16:15 - Dec 12 with 663 views | positivity |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 16:12 - Dec 12 by unbelievablue |
I fear that Burnham has distanced himself too much from the London liberals, especially in rhetoric, to maintain a strong enough grasp over the entirety of the party. |
burnham would've won in 2015 had the london liberals not given corbyn a free pass into the contest.
he's since risen in stature and shown himself to be a proven winner. that's the kind of person a party will get behind | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 16:19 - Dec 12 with 649 views | positivity |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 16:14 - Dec 12 by unbelievablue |
That ship has long since sailed. See my other post re: current thinking/disillusionment. |
never too late to turn a ship!
as i said to koont/foot, get boris and his cronies out then shift labour left/green/wherever from within, too important to stop the tories' damage asap.
green & labour and even the libs are already doing deals to get the tories out, but it needs to happen much more and in a more concerted way | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 16:26 - Dec 12 with 645 views | tractordownsouth |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 16:15 - Dec 12 by positivity |
burnham would've won in 2015 had the london liberals not given corbyn a free pass into the contest.
he's since risen in stature and shown himself to be a proven winner. that's the kind of person a party will get behind |
The fact Corbyn won in 2015 was down to Burnham and Cooper being hopeless in that campaign, and I say that as someone whose views are much closer to theirs than Corbyn’s. They both followed the Miliband pattern or tying themselves up in knots and triangulating. It’s unfair and unnecessary to ask for a full policy prospectus during a leadership contest years out from an election, but they didn’t even give a particularly clear general direction of travel and flip-flopped during the campaign, which created the space for Corbyn. | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 16:42 - Dec 12 with 638 views | FightingEssex |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 21:56 - Dec 11 by pointofblue |
I think the Conservatives will sit tight with Johnson until Covid is seemingly fully under control, so all of the unpopular decisions can be laid at his door. They have enough of a majority to suck up a few by election defeats if necessary.
The bigger risk to Johnson at this stage is tripping up from a legal standpoint. |
It only remains until they change leadership and the idiots will vote for them again. Shambles of a party. |  |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 17:22 - Dec 12 with 600 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 16:19 - Dec 12 by positivity |
never too late to turn a ship!
as i said to koont/foot, get boris and his cronies out then shift labour left/green/wherever from within, too important to stop the tories' damage asap.
green & labour and even the libs are already doing deals to get the tories out, but it needs to happen much more and in a more concerted way |
Sadly, I just don’t believe that can happen within the party anymore. They’re sealing themselves off at the top and shifting right.
You’re right that we have a rubbish and dangerous government. But I think that’s exactly the reason to not get behind a rubbish and dangerous opposition. This lot need to be looked at on their own terms and their own offering, which is pretty much empty.
And then we keep repeating the cycle. And that’s if they get into power which I doubt given their lack of any compelling or committed policies or stances. |  |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 17:27 - Dec 12 with 596 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 16:26 - Dec 12 by tractordownsouth |
The fact Corbyn won in 2015 was down to Burnham and Cooper being hopeless in that campaign, and I say that as someone whose views are much closer to theirs than Corbyn’s. They both followed the Miliband pattern or tying themselves up in knots and triangulating. It’s unfair and unnecessary to ask for a full policy prospectus during a leadership contest years out from an election, but they didn’t even give a particularly clear general direction of travel and flip-flopped during the campaign, which created the space for Corbyn. |
They should have lied/made 10 pledges that weren’t actually pledges like Starmer did in his leadership campaign. | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 17:33 - Dec 12 with 583 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 15:24 - Dec 12 by pointofblue |
So a figurehead is needed. Nigel Farage managed to channel public opinion and be a strong enough orator to sell ideas beyond those already on board. Maybe there was a feeling Corbyn would be that person but he was easy pray to the press and he struggled to get his thoughts across to those who need to be swayed. But I think a likeable figurehead would pick up a lot of the slack; the question is who. |
Clive Lewis possibly.
I think he’s biding his time but hopefully that will end soon and he will start making the case for a progressive green/PR alliance more forcibly. | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 17:34 - Dec 12 with 580 views | positivity |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 17:22 - Dec 12 by Darth_Koont |
Sadly, I just don’t believe that can happen within the party anymore. They’re sealing themselves off at the top and shifting right.
You’re right that we have a rubbish and dangerous government. But I think that’s exactly the reason to not get behind a rubbish and dangerous opposition. This lot need to be looked at on their own terms and their own offering, which is pretty much empty.
And then we keep repeating the cycle. And that’s if they get into power which I doubt given their lack of any compelling or committed policies or stances. |
and you'll have said that when kinnock came in
and when blair came in
and non-corbyliebers thought the same when momentum tried to sew up the national executive.
there's always a way.
you can't describe starmer/rayner/cooper/lammy et al as dangerous or rubbish, what danger do they bring in comparison to boris/sunak/truss etc?!?! | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 17:34 - Dec 12 with 577 views | Ryorry |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 16:19 - Dec 12 by positivity |
never too late to turn a ship!
as i said to koont/foot, get boris and his cronies out then shift labour left/green/wherever from within, too important to stop the tories' damage asap.
green & labour and even the libs are already doing deals to get the tories out, but it needs to happen much more and in a more concerted way |
I've said a few times that since the Labour Party was created in 1900 because of conditions as they were back then, & things obviously having changed so much in the ensuing 121 years, it's no longer really fit for purpose & needs a fundamental rejig along green lines to accord with modern 2021-> needs.
Re-boot the economy with education, training, investment in the environment, renewables, sustainable power, sustainable farming etc etc.
I even tried to start a new party on here (about 3 years ago? 🤔) but couldn't find someone with an economics background (seems essential) to put the hours in! [Post edited 12 Dec 2021 17:37]
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 17:35 - Dec 12 with 571 views | positivity |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 17:33 - Dec 12 by Darth_Koont |
Clive Lewis possibly.
I think he’s biding his time but hopefully that will end soon and he will start making the case for a progressive green/PR alliance more forcibly. |
i like lewis, but he wasn't even strong enough to get corbyn out when he tried that.
we'll need better than that! | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 17:36 - Dec 12 with 570 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 17:34 - Dec 12 by Ryorry |
I've said a few times that since the Labour Party was created in 1900 because of conditions as they were back then, & things obviously having changed so much in the ensuing 121 years, it's no longer really fit for purpose & needs a fundamental rejig along green lines to accord with modern 2021-> needs.
Re-boot the economy with education, training, investment in the environment, renewables, sustainable power, sustainable farming etc etc.
I even tried to start a new party on here (about 3 years ago? 🤔) but couldn't find someone with an economics background (seems essential) to put the hours in! [Post edited 12 Dec 2021 17:37]
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I once lived next door to an economist. What do you need? 😀 | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 17:37 - Dec 12 with 563 views | footers |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 17:34 - Dec 12 by Ryorry |
I've said a few times that since the Labour Party was created in 1900 because of conditions as they were back then, & things obviously having changed so much in the ensuing 121 years, it's no longer really fit for purpose & needs a fundamental rejig along green lines to accord with modern 2021-> needs.
Re-boot the economy with education, training, investment in the environment, renewables, sustainable power, sustainable farming etc etc.
I even tried to start a new party on here (about 3 years ago? 🤔) but couldn't find someone with an economics background (seems essential) to put the hours in! [Post edited 12 Dec 2021 17:37]
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So it needs a fundamental change which in your mind amounts to a reversion to Blairism? Outstanding. | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 17:40 - Dec 12 with 560 views | positivity |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 16:26 - Dec 12 by tractordownsouth |
The fact Corbyn won in 2015 was down to Burnham and Cooper being hopeless in that campaign, and I say that as someone whose views are much closer to theirs than Corbyn’s. They both followed the Miliband pattern or tying themselves up in knots and triangulating. It’s unfair and unnecessary to ask for a full policy prospectus during a leadership contest years out from an election, but they didn’t even give a particularly clear general direction of travel and flip-flopped during the campaign, which created the space for Corbyn. |
corbyn sold a fairytale which played well with the union paymasters and the party membership, but not with the electorate. couple that with his baggage and he was easy prey for the most incompetent of conservatives
burnham's come on leaps and bounds since that election, but unite could've put tony benn up at that election and unite would've block-voted him in! | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 17:42 - Dec 12 with 553 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 17:35 - Dec 12 by positivity |
i like lewis, but he wasn't even strong enough to get corbyn out when he tried that.
we'll need better than that! |
Then we’re up sh}5 creek.
I actually hope Labour implodes. The Tories won’t, they’ll just go dormant like herpes, regroup and come back. But we need serious people with serious solutions in the meantime. That’s the only prevention and cure for the current unserious politics. | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 17:47 - Dec 12 with 538 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 17:37 - Dec 12 by footers |
So it needs a fundamental change which in your mind amounts to a reversion to Blairism? Outstanding. |
Indeed. I’m only half-joking when I call it a death cult.
There’s a complete inability to grasp the modern world in all of this. Let alone a future we’re woefully prepared for in the UK. | |
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