| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead 21:54 - Dec 11 with 14255 views | ElderGrizzly |
And Liz Truss odds on to be new PM.
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 17:48 - Dec 12 with 1158 views | positivity |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 17:42 - Dec 12 by Darth_Koont |
Then we’re up sh}5 creek.
I actually hope Labour implodes. The Tories won’t, they’ll just go dormant like herpes, regroup and come back. But we need serious people with serious solutions in the meantime. That’s the only prevention and cure for the current unserious politics. |
you don't get more serious than starmer/cooper/rayner/lammy they're hardly the corbyn/boris/abbott/dorries chuckle brothers types!
labour tried imploding several times (foot/hatton/momentum), but the people still need them, so they come back.
until the left come up with a serious alternative (i love the green party, but they're still seen as unreconstructed hippies by most of the electorate) then we need labour and we need them in power. |  |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 17:50 - Dec 12 with 1150 views | Ryorry |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 17:36 - Dec 12 by Darth_Koont |
I once lived next door to an economist. What do you need? 😀 |
Listening & debating in adult fashion instead of poking in snide digs would result in more positive outcomes generally in politics as well as other areas of life.
Re your previous dig, my 2 year qualification as social worker incorporated looking at socio-political-economic systems in Sweden & elsewhere; OU technology foundation course 20 years after that did similar from different angle. |  |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 17:52 - Dec 12 with 1142 views | positivity |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 17:47 - Dec 12 by Darth_Koont |
Indeed. I’m only half-joking when I call it a death cult.
There’s a complete inability to grasp the modern world in all of this. Let alone a future we’re woefully prepared for in the UK. |
the "modern world" is not corbyn and his band of '70s socialist workers!
they're the death cult who'll sacrifice any chance of changing people's live for the better in favour of sticking to their fundamentalist dogma and getting a hooray from tarquin/piers and jeremy from islington! | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 17:52 - Dec 12 with 1131 views | Ryorry |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 17:37 - Dec 12 by footers |
So it needs a fundamental change which in your mind amounts to a reversion to Blairism? Outstanding. |
No, it doesn't "amount" to that | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 17:57 - Dec 12 with 1123 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 17:48 - Dec 12 by positivity |
you don't get more serious than starmer/cooper/rayner/lammy they're hardly the corbyn/boris/abbott/dorries chuckle brothers types!
labour tried imploding several times (foot/hatton/momentum), but the people still need them, so they come back.
until the left come up with a serious alternative (i love the green party, but they're still seen as unreconstructed hippies by most of the electorate) then we need labour and we need them in power. |
I really don’t agree. I see little that’s serious in Labour’s current offering. Just triangulating nonsense.
Never mind. What’s the worst that can happen with decades of politics that don’t address the underlying issues? |  |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 18:02 - Dec 12 with 1109 views | Trequartista |
If they appoint another leader they could change their name to Watford FC. |  |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 18:04 - Dec 12 with 1103 views | positivity |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 17:57 - Dec 12 by Darth_Koont |
I really don’t agree. I see little that’s serious in Labour’s current offering. Just triangulating nonsense.
Never mind. What’s the worst that can happen with decades of politics that don’t address the underlying issues? |
what policy do you disagree with?
what's the worst that can happen with decades of tory rule with no credible opposition?
end of the nhs
increasing nationalism
widening divide between rich and poor
end of the benefits system
culture wars
end of the bbc
end of the right to protest
unrestrained fascism
don't fancy yours much! | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 18:04 - Dec 12 with 1102 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 17:50 - Dec 12 by Ryorry |
Listening & debating in adult fashion instead of poking in snide digs would result in more positive outcomes generally in politics as well as other areas of life.
Re your previous dig, my 2 year qualification as social worker incorporated looking at socio-political-economic systems in Sweden & elsewhere; OU technology foundation course 20 years after that did similar from different angle. |
Come off it. That’s Dunning-Kruger stuff.
You’ve got superficial, tangential knowledge and are passing it off as insight.
Offer still remains about the economics help. 😀 | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 18:07 - Dec 12 with 1095 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 18:04 - Dec 12 by positivity |
what policy do you disagree with?
what's the worst that can happen with decades of tory rule with no credible opposition?
end of the nhs
increasing nationalism
widening divide between rich and poor
end of the benefits system
culture wars
end of the bbc
end of the right to protest
unrestrained fascism
don't fancy yours much! |
But the seeds for that were sown even under Labour.
Do you think Starmer et al are going to reverse these things? And actually build a better society? I don’t. | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 18:17 - Dec 12 with 1063 views | Ryorry |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 18:04 - Dec 12 by Darth_Koont |
Come off it. That’s Dunning-Kruger stuff.
You’ve got superficial, tangential knowledge and are passing it off as insight.
Offer still remains about the economics help. 😀 |
I never claimed to be some expert on Sweden, I simply responded to your rather bizarre diversion onto that country (which looked like pure evasion by you of the point I'd made about you accusing others of being narrow-minded, whilst you weren't even considering that might actually apply to you).
Anyway, as you said earlier, this is going nowhere, I'm off for a cuppa. | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 18:22 - Dec 12 with 1051 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 18:17 - Dec 12 by Ryorry |
I never claimed to be some expert on Sweden, I simply responded to your rather bizarre diversion onto that country (which looked like pure evasion by you of the point I'd made about you accusing others of being narrow-minded, whilst you weren't even considering that might actually apply to you).
Anyway, as you said earlier, this is going nowhere, I'm off for a cuppa. |
It wasn’t a “bizarre diversion” at all. It was me saying that I have the perspective and experience of the kind of society that is perfectly possible and which I am pushing for.
Then you started talking about how that wasn’t possible in the UK ... because ... stuff.
Quit while you’re behind. | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 18:24 - Dec 12 with 1036 views | positivity |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 18:07 - Dec 12 by Darth_Koont |
But the seeds for that were sown even under Labour.
Do you think Starmer et al are going to reverse these things? And actually build a better society? I don’t. |
nonsense, labour reversed all these even under blair
will starmer/labour
fund the nhs more? yes
bring in a more progressive taxation system? yes
keep the benefits system? yes
engage in dog whistle politics against lgbtq+ people/asylum seekers/immigrants? no
keep the bbc? yes
end the right to protest? no
bring in unrestrained fascism? no
which do you disagree on? on which would you prefer the tories to be in control of rather than the labour party? | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 18:28 - Dec 12 with 1021 views | Ryorry |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 18:22 - Dec 12 by Darth_Koont |
It wasn’t a “bizarre diversion” at all. It was me saying that I have the perspective and experience of the kind of society that is perfectly possible and which I am pushing for.
Then you started talking about how that wasn’t possible in the UK ... because ... stuff.
Quit while you’re behind. |
"It wasn’t a “bizarre diversion” at all. It was me saying that I have the perspective and experience of the kind of society that is perfectly possible and which I am pushing for."
As do I. You have zero knowledge of the life I've lived.
Suggest you take your own advice there. | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 19:09 - Dec 12 with 984 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 18:28 - Dec 12 by Ryorry |
"It wasn’t a “bizarre diversion” at all. It was me saying that I have the perspective and experience of the kind of society that is perfectly possible and which I am pushing for."
As do I. You have zero knowledge of the life I've lived.
Suggest you take your own advice there. |
Gmpf. Unbelievable. | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 19:32 - Dec 12 with 939 views | Ryorry |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 19:09 - Dec 12 by Darth_Koont |
Gmpf. Unbelievable. |
And that's all you can come up with in response to my post. Unbelievable. | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 19:36 - Dec 12 with 935 views | lowhouseblue |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 19:32 - Dec 12 by Ryorry |
And that's all you can come up with in response to my post. Unbelievable. |
have you not met dk before? there's no point trying. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 19:56 - Dec 12 with 918 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 18:24 - Dec 12 by positivity |
nonsense, labour reversed all these even under blair
will starmer/labour
fund the nhs more? yes
bring in a more progressive taxation system? yes
keep the benefits system? yes
engage in dog whistle politics against lgbtq+ people/asylum seekers/immigrants? no
keep the bbc? yes
end the right to protest? no
bring in unrestrained fascism? no
which do you disagree on? on which would you prefer the tories to be in control of rather than the labour party? |
Did they really reverse that? For me they cemented the UK on a path that they could have reversed during their 13 years but didn’t.
The NHS. They certainly introduced the internal market and PFIs to the NHS which have kept us on the slippery slope. They did put more into the NHS during the global economic upturn but were quite open about their belief in austerity during the downturn.
Tax rises were minimal and again with the global economic upturn this was seen as tolerable due to rising incomes. The commitment to raising taxes for a more long-term and sweeping redistribution of wealth and pay for society and infrastructure wasn’t there though. Now we’re seeing Starmer fall even at the most simple of hurdles by not being able to agree with a rise on our already very low corporate tax on profits.
Benefits: See above. In good times, yes. In bad times, austerity and cuts. Even 12 years on Starmer is only talking about tweaks that I can imagine Johnson agreeing to as well. There is no underlying defense of benefits and to see them as critical for protecting people and for actually helping boost confidence. We’re still miles from anything like UBI or, in a crisis, seeing cash go to individuals rather than employers.
Nationalism? Let’s split that into Home Nations and the UK first. New Labour did little to nothing to address the regional divide and the unbalanced, far too centralized economy. That’s left Scotland and increasingly Wales and Northern Ireland looking elsewhere. The sheer sense of betrayal that a Labour government would do nothing in 13 years of power really started everything, in Scotland at least. Instead, those Labour votes (and in the former Red Wall) were taken for granted and New Labour started aiming for the middle-class marginals that would keep it in power. Massive missed opportunity to take the country forward rather than set it on its current path. And Starmer looks even worse on that score.
As for toxic nationalism. Yes, there was a lot of dog-whistling around immigration and Muslims even during New Labour. And they also pushed heavily for the expansion of the EU that brought over Eastern Europeans. While never addressing the underlying concerns. And now we’ve got Starmer leaning into islamophobia, anti-BAME, anti-asylum seekers to somehow prove his reactionary credentials.
Same with LGBTQ+. New Labour deserve credit for pushing through anti-discrimination laws eventually but that’s a marked contrast to their rejection of these before as lunatic fringe issues. Anti-discrimination laws seemed more to be them responding to the times rather than taking leadership. Same with transphobia and identity issues now. They’re not allies until it’s electorally beneficial or at least neutral. Because it’s not about principles.
Keep the BBC? Sure. Does the Labour Right no harm whatsoever. Doesn’t really hurt the Tories either but gives them the chance to posture.
The right to protest and organize labour? Labour aren’t that interested, let’s be honest. Their defence of it has been lukewarm at best. When was the last time Labour (outside of the Corbyn years of course) actually stood up for protesters and issues? They don’t want any of it.
Unrestrained fascism? Potato/potahto. I haven’t seen any political project as authoritarian as Starmer’s Labour. The Tories with Patel and the loony backbenchers are certainly very bad, but In Starmer I don’t see some knight in shining armour holding a sword of democratic justice. I see a narrow reactionary who’s just as likely to do similar and throw in a bit of Blair’s imperialism for kicks.
Yeah, I don’t like them. 😀 And they’re stealing a living calling themselves the opposition or an alternative. Because, in actual fact, they don’t want to oppose they want to be given the reins, and get all the same power, money and influence that made Blair their poster boy.
That type of self-serving nonsense (with a media that nods along and wants their big house to keep its value and not pay any more tax) might be the nature of politics over the past couple of decades. But that’s why we are where we are, and the actual underlying issues keep getting ignored. | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 19:59 - Dec 12 with 908 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 19:32 - Dec 12 by Ryorry |
And that's all you can come up with in response to my post. Unbelievable. |
Well, yes. This is your MO.
You accuse me of being narrow and in an ivory tower (one of your faves). And when I defend myself with actual experience, you then accuse me of denying you your experience.
Always the victim ... | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 20:08 - Dec 12 with 873 views | Ryorry |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 19:59 - Dec 12 by Darth_Koont |
Well, yes. This is your MO.
You accuse me of being narrow and in an ivory tower (one of your faves). And when I defend myself with actual experience, you then accuse me of denying you your experience.
Always the victim ... |
"My MO"
"Always the victim".
Don't be so childish, you just make yourself look foolish always resorting to such false, petty attempts at defamation. What you effectively said in your previous post was that you're allowed to claim your life experience in your defence (which I didn't dispute), but that I'm not allowed to claim mine. And as you well know, I'm hardly the only person on here to call you an ivory tower inhabitant, people only have to read the thread. | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 20:14 - Dec 12 with 868 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 20:08 - Dec 12 by Ryorry |
"My MO"
"Always the victim".
Don't be so childish, you just make yourself look foolish always resorting to such false, petty attempts at defamation. What you effectively said in your previous post was that you're allowed to claim your life experience in your defence (which I didn't dispute), but that I'm not allowed to claim mine. And as you well know, I'm hardly the only person on here to call you an ivory tower inhabitant, people only have to read the thread. |
Yeah about something very specific and relevant to the thread. Like how Sweden works and the UK could too.
Your response to that is to give your own non-experience and non-knowledge about Sweden and then get huffy when I point that out.
Talk about your own experience and knowledge by all means. It’s really not that difficult. | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 20:17 - Dec 12 with 850 views | footers |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 20:14 - Dec 12 by Darth_Koont |
Yeah about something very specific and relevant to the thread. Like how Sweden works and the UK could too.
Your response to that is to give your own non-experience and non-knowledge about Sweden and then get huffy when I point that out.
Talk about your own experience and knowledge by all means. It’s really not that difficult. |
Wait till she tells you the one about being bullied six decades ago, that's always a hoot. |  |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 20:29 - Dec 12 with 821 views | jeera |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 20:14 - Dec 12 by Darth_Koont |
Yeah about something very specific and relevant to the thread. Like how Sweden works and the UK could too.
Your response to that is to give your own non-experience and non-knowledge about Sweden and then get huffy when I point that out.
Talk about your own experience and knowledge by all means. It’s really not that difficult. |
I liked Abba as a kid. |  |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 20:36 - Dec 12 with 809 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 20:29 - Dec 12 by jeera |
I liked Abba as a kid. |
You sicken me. 😀
I quite like them if I’m being honest. Although sitting through Mamma Mia 2 very nearly killed me. | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 20:36 - Dec 12 with 804 views | Ryorry |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 20:17 - Dec 12 by footers |
Wait till she tells you the one about being bullied six decades ago, that's always a hoot. |
Beneath contempt (as is the upvote).
Yet again.
But sure, you're still a "right-on caring socialist" | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 20:39 - Dec 12 with 794 views | N2_Blue |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 12:14 - Dec 12 by Darth_Koont |
I think the current Labour leadership are a different set of c@@@@. Not as bad by certain measures but untrustworthy, self-serving and ultimately totally inadequate.
They’re part of the problem, not the solution. |
Voters like yourself are part of the problem and not the solution to getting out of this constant spiral of consecutive and ever increasingly dangerous Tory governments |  |
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