| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead 21:54 - Dec 11 with 14222 views | ElderGrizzly |
And Liz Truss odds on to be new PM.
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 11:49 - Dec 12 with 765 views | bluelagos |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 11:45 - Dec 12 by Ryorry |
+ Massive improvements for schools & education, including renovation & repair to buildings, some of which were, iirc from Gruadian articles & comments, in a terrible state & hazardous to health. [Post edited 12 Dec 2021 11:45]
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And of course the achievements of a "centre left" Labour govt should then be compared to the damage of a Conservative administration.
Those stating the two are similar live in a different world to me. For sure argue that Labour policy should be further to the left (and I'd agree on a number of issues am sure) but to also claim they are one and same as the Tories simply doesn't really stack up to sensible analysis imho. |  |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 11:49 - Dec 12 with 763 views | tractordownsouth |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 22:59 - Dec 11 by footers |
You'll be voting Labour at the next election then?
Which of his brilliant policies do you like best? |
Getting rid of zero hour contracts, reversing the £20 a week universal credit cut and banning gay conversion therapy are a few that I like, what about you? |  |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 11:50 - Dec 12 with 762 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 11:45 - Dec 12 by lowhouseblue |
for me it raised interesting stuff about viewing a pandemic through excessively partisan eyes. the nature of government and opposition means that the current big political fractures could very easily have been drawn in radically different ways. people take sides and dig in, and with something like a pandemic which lies beyond the established ideological script, we could have ended up defending things we now attack.
that people like you use centrist as an insult convinces me that it must be a very good thing. |
Oh please. You and your Blairite ilk are as entrenched as anyone.
We’ve had 40+ years of centre-right/right policies in the UK and you still want more. It’s a death cult. |  |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 11:53 - Dec 12 with 745 views | positivity |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 11:50 - Dec 12 by Darth_Koont |
Oh please. You and your Blairite ilk are as entrenched as anyone.
We’ve had 40+ years of centre-right/right policies in the UK and you still want more. It’s a death cult. |
you're the only ones looking like fundamentalist cult members at the moment.
cults are defined by their inability to deviate or compromise from their incredibly narrow idealistic views |  |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 11:56 - Dec 12 with 729 views | pointofblue |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 11:50 - Dec 12 by Darth_Koont |
Oh please. You and your Blairite ilk are as entrenched as anyone.
We’ve had 40+ years of centre-right/right policies in the UK and you still want more. It’s a death cult. |
So how are you planning to change it? Apologies if that sounds more aggressive than it should but how can it be changed? | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 11:59 - Dec 12 with 707 views | Ryorry |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 11:50 - Dec 12 by Darth_Koont |
Oh please. You and your Blairite ilk are as entrenched as anyone.
We’ve had 40+ years of centre-right/right policies in the UK and you still want more. It’s a death cult. |
That you'd put the current bunch of corrupt tory slimeballs in your same bracket as Labour on your L-R scale, speaks volumes about your inability to think or consider rationally on what's best for the UK. |  |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 12:02 - Dec 12 with 698 views | HARRY10 |
Cons 32, Lab 41 - you can have some fun, using this predictor.
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/userpoll.html
Which on the latest figures would see the Tories lose around 134 seats, and Labour being a handful shy of an overall majority.
Yes, there are a number of variables, and I doubt we are going to see an election just yet, but it is a measure of how bad things are. And we have still to see the results of number of investigations into his dodgy behaviour.
There'll be an awful lot of Tory MPs number crunching these figures. And wondering have they hit bottom yet ? | | | |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 12:09 - Dec 12 with 684 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 11:53 - Dec 12 by positivity |
you're the only ones looking like fundamentalist cult members at the moment.
cults are defined by their inability to deviate or compromise from their incredibly narrow idealistic views |
“Inability to compromise!?” That’s insane.
Modern socialism is all about compromise. Because no-one is talking about dismantling capitalism. But ensuring that the benefits are shared more equitably and the risk/liabilities too.
That’s pretty much European social democracy in a nut shell, and we’re almost entirely incapable of breaking out of our narrow trajectory to consider it.
By all means let’s see the compromise that prevents regional, wage, race and age inequalities from increasing, that addresses climate change and the actual challenges of 2021 and the future like AI and automation, secures education, health and welfare so that society isn’t ailing, tackles our worryingly low productivity and balances our wonky economy, addresses our unsustainable housing model that is crippling whole sections of the population, keeps the Union together rather than driving wedges between people and communities ... and on and on.
Who’s promoting real compromise to address these issues? Rather than just electoral compromise to allow a changing of the guard? | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 12:10 - Dec 12 with 675 views | pointofblue |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 12:02 - Dec 12 by HARRY10 |
Cons 32, Lab 41 - you can have some fun, using this predictor.
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/userpoll.html
Which on the latest figures would see the Tories lose around 134 seats, and Labour being a handful shy of an overall majority.
Yes, there are a number of variables, and I doubt we are going to see an election just yet, but it is a measure of how bad things are. And we have still to see the results of number of investigations into his dodgy behaviour.
There'll be an awful lot of Tory MPs number crunching these figures. And wondering have they hit bottom yet ? |
The only issue is the Conservatives have a change of leader up their sleeve. I said yesterday I expect they’ll want him in place until Covid predominantly blows over so he can take the fall for it; the latest leaks may force their hand, though. | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 12:12 - Dec 12 with 665 views | tractordownsouth |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 12:02 - Dec 12 by HARRY10 |
Cons 32, Lab 41 - you can have some fun, using this predictor.
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/userpoll.html
Which on the latest figures would see the Tories lose around 134 seats, and Labour being a handful shy of an overall majority.
Yes, there are a number of variables, and I doubt we are going to see an election just yet, but it is a measure of how bad things are. And we have still to see the results of number of investigations into his dodgy behaviour.
There'll be an awful lot of Tory MPs number crunching these figures. And wondering have they hit bottom yet ? |
I’m realistic enough to know this is unlikely to be the GE result but even in the event of a 2/3 point Tory lead there are some awful people losing their seats. Dominic Raab will be beaten by the Lib Dems and Steve Baker’s seat will go to Labour. Theresa Villiers has a majority of only 1k as it is. I can’t imagine rhyming slang would hold on in Ipswich on those numbers either. | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 12:14 - Dec 12 with 660 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 11:59 - Dec 12 by Ryorry |
That you'd put the current bunch of corrupt tory slimeballs in your same bracket as Labour on your L-R scale, speaks volumes about your inability to think or consider rationally on what's best for the UK. |
I think the current Labour leadership are a different set of c@@@@. Not as bad by certain measures but untrustworthy, self-serving and ultimately totally inadequate.
They’re part of the problem, not the solution. | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 12:15 - Dec 12 with 649 views | ZXBlue |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 11:21 - Dec 12 by BanksterDebtSlave |
you can see no difference between labour and the conservatives? you think they'd run the country in the exact same way?
Pretty much, certainly in respect to my day to day life.
even blair left some positive legacy that the tories haven't been able to undo yet
Could you list them? |
Notable that a professed leftie is most interested in his own every day life.
And more interested in ideological squabbles than actually achieving what is best available, even if its not ideal. | | | |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 12:17 - Dec 12 with 642 views | ZXBlue |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 11:50 - Dec 12 by Darth_Koont |
Oh please. You and your Blairite ilk are as entrenched as anyone.
We’ve had 40+ years of centre-right/right policies in the UK and you still want more. It’s a death cult. |
Do explain the alternative. The level of blinkered thinking sums up why people didnt vote for Corbyn.
This hard left ideological dogmatism is why Boris has power. | | | |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 12:18 - Dec 12 with 639 views | pointofblue |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 12:14 - Dec 12 by Darth_Koont |
I think the current Labour leadership are a different set of c@@@@. Not as bad by certain measures but untrustworthy, self-serving and ultimately totally inadequate.
They’re part of the problem, not the solution. |
What is the solution? | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 12:20 - Dec 12 with 629 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 11:56 - Dec 12 by pointofblue |
So how are you planning to change it? Apologies if that sounds more aggressive than it should but how can it be changed? |
Vote Green. Support the SNP leaving this mess. Hope that the penny drops when enough of the under-50s are disenfranchised and disillusioned enough to demand better.
Working outside the system and addressing disenfranchisement and disillusionment “worked” for Farage and UKIP. Even though the gripe against foreigners was baseless and pretty evil. But it shows at least what’s possible when you stop seeing the answer as an eternal electoral battle between 2 arse cheeks. | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 12:20 - Dec 12 with 622 views | ZXBlue |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 12:09 - Dec 12 by Darth_Koont |
“Inability to compromise!?” That’s insane.
Modern socialism is all about compromise. Because no-one is talking about dismantling capitalism. But ensuring that the benefits are shared more equitably and the risk/liabilities too.
That’s pretty much European social democracy in a nut shell, and we’re almost entirely incapable of breaking out of our narrow trajectory to consider it.
By all means let’s see the compromise that prevents regional, wage, race and age inequalities from increasing, that addresses climate change and the actual challenges of 2021 and the future like AI and automation, secures education, health and welfare so that society isn’t ailing, tackles our worryingly low productivity and balances our wonky economy, addresses our unsustainable housing model that is crippling whole sections of the population, keeps the Union together rather than driving wedges between people and communities ... and on and on.
Who’s promoting real compromise to address these issues? Rather than just electoral compromise to allow a changing of the guard? |
Inability to compromise. YES
Anyone on the left who would rather oppose Starmer and enable a conservative government, than accept a pragmatic position is clearly unable to consider compromise or realism. | | | |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 12:21 - Dec 12 with 619 views | ZXBlue |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 12:20 - Dec 12 by Darth_Koont |
Vote Green. Support the SNP leaving this mess. Hope that the penny drops when enough of the under-50s are disenfranchised and disillusioned enough to demand better.
Working outside the system and addressing disenfranchisement and disillusionment “worked” for Farage and UKIP. Even though the gripe against foreigners was baseless and pretty evil. But it shows at least what’s possible when you stop seeing the answer as an eternal electoral battle between 2 arse cheeks. |
So another conservative government with a huge majority then? | | | |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 12:23 - Dec 12 with 608 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 12:17 - Dec 12 by ZXBlue |
Do explain the alternative. The level of blinkered thinking sums up why people didnt vote for Corbyn.
This hard left ideological dogmatism is why Boris has power. |
The alternative is actually having an alternative. I just wrote at length further up about the challenges facing the UK and I want a party or politicians who actually address those realities.
Who’s wearing the blinkers? | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 12:26 - Dec 12 with 602 views | jeera |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 11:33 - Dec 12 by bluelagos |
Minimum wage.
Wrote off 3rd world debt.
Peace in Northern Ireland.
Peace in Sierra Leone.
Independence for the Bank of England.
Scottish devolution.
Civil partnerships.
Banned fox hunting. |
Working Tax Credits? |  |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 12:28 - Dec 12 with 602 views | pointofblue |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 12:20 - Dec 12 by Darth_Koont |
Vote Green. Support the SNP leaving this mess. Hope that the penny drops when enough of the under-50s are disenfranchised and disillusioned enough to demand better.
Working outside the system and addressing disenfranchisement and disillusionment “worked” for Farage and UKIP. Even though the gripe against foreigners was baseless and pretty evil. But it shows at least what’s possible when you stop seeing the answer as an eternal electoral battle between 2 arse cheeks. |
But that’s a long term solution - it’ll take time for enough of the younger generation to feel disenfranchised, to feel like they want another way. And many of the younger generation tend to change views as the grow older; those who were 18 and voted Blair in 1997 will now be in their 40s with a sizeable chunk voting Tories. As people age their political outlook changes depending on their life security.
There could be another election within two years. England is not going to change enough in that time to have anything but Labour v the Conservatives. The choice for now, maybe not fairly, is stark. To turn an oil tanker you have to do it gradually; as painful as it maybe a centralist Labour is probably the only way to twitch the wheel. | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 12:28 - Dec 12 with 602 views | leitrimblue |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 11:49 - Dec 12 by tractordownsouth |
Getting rid of zero hour contracts, reversing the £20 a week universal credit cut and banning gay conversion therapy are a few that I like, what about you? |
Feck me, if that's the best policies labour can come up with to attract the working class then it just shows how outta touch they are. |  | | |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 12:29 - Dec 12 with 597 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 12:20 - Dec 12 by ZXBlue |
Inability to compromise. YES
Anyone on the left who would rather oppose Starmer and enable a conservative government, than accept a pragmatic position is clearly unable to consider compromise or realism. |
The definition of political pragmatism in the UK is ignoring those realities.
If we scratch the surface, I think it’s about people not wanting to pay more tax or that they would otherwise have to give up something for a fairer better society.
It’s the same incentive/disincentive we see expressed in countries like the US and expressed by people right-wing enough to say it in the UK.
“We have to compromise...” Yeah, right. 😀 | |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 12:32 - Dec 12 with 574 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 11:50 - Dec 12 by Darth_Koont |
Oh please. You and your Blairite ilk are as entrenched as anyone.
We’ve had 40+ years of centre-right/right policies in the UK and you still want more. It’s a death cult. |
But Corbyn |  |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 12:35 - Dec 12 with 561 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 11:33 - Dec 12 by bluelagos |
Minimum wage.
Wrote off 3rd world debt.
Peace in Northern Ireland.
Peace in Sierra Leone.
Independence for the Bank of England.
Scottish devolution.
Civil partnerships.
Banned fox hunting. |
None of which is doing anything for Joe Public. |  |
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| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 12:36 - Dec 12 with 560 views | ZXBlue |
| Labour with 9 point opinion poll lead on 12:23 - Dec 12 by Darth_Koont |
The alternative is actually having an alternative. I just wrote at length further up about the challenges facing the UK and I want a party or politicians who actually address those realities.
Who’s wearing the blinkers? |
But have no realistic solution. Refusing to vote labour on the basis of ideological squabbles is plainly counter productive. Your inability to see that is remarkable! | | | |
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