| Cook - I never took training pre season 13:21 - Jan 6 with 4461 views | nodge_blue |
Can someone please explain what that means? I cant for one second believe that he never had the players together and coached them pre season. That cant have just been the fitness team or whatever they are doing pre season training??
Ive a bit of sympathy for his comments. I think the manager has to have more control and say of the running of the club than just being a first team coach. Its a bit worrying for me. I don't think the tail should wag the dog. |  |
| |  |
| Cook - I never took training pre season on 13:22 - Jan 6 with 3598 views | Dubtractor |
I think he just meant that he didn't have the squad here for pre season as a lot of them weren't signed yet.
Edit: Just seen the new interview so ignore my comment above.
To me this all smacks of him making excuses. I understand why he is doing it, but that's all it is. [Post edited 6 Jan 2022 13:42]
|  |
| |
| Cook - I never took training pre season on 13:27 - Jan 6 with 3531 views | heavyweight |
| Cook - I never took training pre season on 13:22 - Jan 6 by Dubtractor |
I think he just meant that he didn't have the squad here for pre season as a lot of them weren't signed yet.
Edit: Just seen the new interview so ignore my comment above.
To me this all smacks of him making excuses. I understand why he is doing it, but that's all it is. [Post edited 6 Jan 2022 13:42]
|
I assumed it to mean that the basic fitness training was done by the performance team.
I think there were some videos put out of PC taking the training session pre season.
Also with Norwood saying PCs hands were tied - presumably this is also the performance team saying he wasn't ready to play ? |  | | |
| Cook - I never took training pre season on 13:30 - Jan 6 with 3490 views | nodge_blue |
| Cook - I never took training pre season on 13:22 - Jan 6 by Dubtractor |
I think he just meant that he didn't have the squad here for pre season as a lot of them weren't signed yet.
Edit: Just seen the new interview so ignore my comment above.
To me this all smacks of him making excuses. I understand why he is doing it, but that's all it is. [Post edited 6 Jan 2022 13:42]
|
Maybe. Even then he still had some players to train. What else is he going to do? Watch tv? | |
| |
| Cook - I never took training pre season on 13:32 - Jan 6 with 3459 views | nodge_blue |
| Cook - I never took training pre season on 13:27 - Jan 6 by heavyweight |
I assumed it to mean that the basic fitness training was done by the performance team.
I think there were some videos put out of PC taking the training session pre season.
Also with Norwood saying PCs hands were tied - presumably this is also the performance team saying he wasn't ready to play ? |
Maybe. I had a feeling it was more to do with Ashton saying that he was on his way out. | |
| |
| Cook - I never took training pre season on 13:39 - Jan 6 with 3375 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Cook - I never took training pre season on 13:27 - Jan 6 by heavyweight |
I assumed it to mean that the basic fitness training was done by the performance team.
I think there were some videos put out of PC taking the training session pre season.
Also with Norwood saying PCs hands were tied - presumably this is also the performance team saying he wasn't ready to play ? |
I presumed it was more to do with the owners of the club being the pension fund for first responders and emergency service workers, and wanting to send a clear message that drink driving would never be tolerated here as they have to deal with the carnage and devastation it causes every day of their working lives.
I hope that Norwood has made good use of the time and got help if he needs it, so that he can be the best footballer possible and a decent role model to young Ipswich fans which IS part of the job description. | | | |
| Cook - I never took training pre season on 13:40 - Jan 6 with 3372 views | HighgateBlue |
It's very hard to know whether much of what he's saying is sour grapes or whether he has a legitimate set of gripes.
When Lambert was on his way out, he moaned of the lack of structure. That was lapped up by fans, as (a) Evans was already very unpopular, and (b) the new regime that came in appointed a lot of suits, thus being able to point to a new 'structure'.
But Cook's criticism of there being a lack of a recruitment room, and using the expression "come on", indicates that he thinks that the structure that's in place now is poor, and poor in a surprising way for a club of our size.
I genuinely don't know whether the structure was that bad under Lambert compared with now, given that Lambert did better with less money, and most people rate Cook as a manager based on his success elsewhere. I genuinely don't know. Let's just hope that McKenna is able to stand up to Ashton et al if and when he sees things that he doesn't think are right.
Cook's right about one thing, certainly. If a manager is going to be the fall guy when things go badly, then he needs to have the power to control the things for which he's held accountable. For example, the training "culture" that Cook talks about. We know that fitness and getting to the end of games was a problem under his tenure. But if he was really being dictated to in respect of fitness matters, rather than a fitness coach sitting /under/ him in the pecking order, there is something wrong. I hope it doesn't stem from Ashton's desire to have everyone on the same rung below him, I really do.
Anyway, no criticism of McK so far, that's for sure. Seems just what we need... |  | | |
| Cook - I never took training pre season on 13:43 - Jan 6 with 3332 views | Wacko |
Basically he's saying that he should have had more authority over a player's fitness than a team with scientific degrees.. #dino | |
| |
| Cook - I never took training pre season on 13:44 - Jan 6 with 3315 views | chicoazul |
| Cook - I never took training pre season on 13:22 - Jan 6 by Dubtractor |
I think he just meant that he didn't have the squad here for pre season as a lot of them weren't signed yet.
Edit: Just seen the new interview so ignore my comment above.
To me this all smacks of him making excuses. I understand why he is doing it, but that's all it is. [Post edited 6 Jan 2022 13:42]
|
Maybe. I tend to think he means Rolls et al laid down the fitness sessions and Cook wasn’t allowed any input into that. Talking about lack of a boxing gym culture and hardship for players makes me think it was taken out of his hands in other words, as we would have had that had he had his way.
I mean Cook is right in a lot of what he says about head coach rather than manager these days, and how it’s still them that carries the can when it goes wrong even if they have much less input than they did ten or even five years ago. |  |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Cook - I never took training pre season on 13:46 - Jan 6 with 3289 views | nodge_blue |
| Cook - I never took training pre season on 13:40 - Jan 6 by HighgateBlue |
It's very hard to know whether much of what he's saying is sour grapes or whether he has a legitimate set of gripes.
When Lambert was on his way out, he moaned of the lack of structure. That was lapped up by fans, as (a) Evans was already very unpopular, and (b) the new regime that came in appointed a lot of suits, thus being able to point to a new 'structure'.
But Cook's criticism of there being a lack of a recruitment room, and using the expression "come on", indicates that he thinks that the structure that's in place now is poor, and poor in a surprising way for a club of our size.
I genuinely don't know whether the structure was that bad under Lambert compared with now, given that Lambert did better with less money, and most people rate Cook as a manager based on his success elsewhere. I genuinely don't know. Let's just hope that McKenna is able to stand up to Ashton et al if and when he sees things that he doesn't think are right.
Cook's right about one thing, certainly. If a manager is going to be the fall guy when things go badly, then he needs to have the power to control the things for which he's held accountable. For example, the training "culture" that Cook talks about. We know that fitness and getting to the end of games was a problem under his tenure. But if he was really being dictated to in respect of fitness matters, rather than a fitness coach sitting /under/ him in the pecking order, there is something wrong. I hope it doesn't stem from Ashton's desire to have everyone on the same rung below him, I really do.
Anyway, no criticism of McK so far, that's for sure. Seems just what we need... |
We seem to lurch from no infrastructure to an overload of people with roles I don't fully understand.
We really could do with some success quickly now as the managers seem to spin through the club saying what is going wrong and how they cant affect it. | |
| |
| Cook - I never took training pre season on 13:54 - Jan 6 with 3206 views | homer_123 |
| Cook - I never took training pre season on 13:40 - Jan 6 by HighgateBlue |
It's very hard to know whether much of what he's saying is sour grapes or whether he has a legitimate set of gripes.
When Lambert was on his way out, he moaned of the lack of structure. That was lapped up by fans, as (a) Evans was already very unpopular, and (b) the new regime that came in appointed a lot of suits, thus being able to point to a new 'structure'.
But Cook's criticism of there being a lack of a recruitment room, and using the expression "come on", indicates that he thinks that the structure that's in place now is poor, and poor in a surprising way for a club of our size.
I genuinely don't know whether the structure was that bad under Lambert compared with now, given that Lambert did better with less money, and most people rate Cook as a manager based on his success elsewhere. I genuinely don't know. Let's just hope that McKenna is able to stand up to Ashton et al if and when he sees things that he doesn't think are right.
Cook's right about one thing, certainly. If a manager is going to be the fall guy when things go badly, then he needs to have the power to control the things for which he's held accountable. For example, the training "culture" that Cook talks about. We know that fitness and getting to the end of games was a problem under his tenure. But if he was really being dictated to in respect of fitness matters, rather than a fitness coach sitting /under/ him in the pecking order, there is something wrong. I hope it doesn't stem from Ashton's desire to have everyone on the same rung below him, I really do.
Anyway, no criticism of McK so far, that's for sure. Seems just what we need... |
I'm not sure I agree with you re. Cook being right about one thing.
I would suggest that McKenna is acutely aware of the job he has taken on - what he has control over and what he can and can't influence. He took the job in the full knowledge of this - so, going forward it's not really something he can complain about.
I don't think Cook can either. |  |
| |
| Cook - I never took training pre season on 13:55 - Jan 6 with 3205 views | Steve_M |
| Cook - I never took training pre season on 13:44 - Jan 6 by chicoazul |
Maybe. I tend to think he means Rolls et al laid down the fitness sessions and Cook wasn’t allowed any input into that. Talking about lack of a boxing gym culture and hardship for players makes me think it was taken out of his hands in other words, as we would have had that had he had his way.
I mean Cook is right in a lot of what he says about head coach rather than manager these days, and how it’s still them that carries the can when it goes wrong even if they have much less input than they did ten or even five years ago. |
Perhaps, but also changing the structure stops everything falling apart each time the manager changes because, in theory, there's continuity of staff and players. Cook is an old school manager and thought that was the job here, which it would have been under Evans.
I do wonder where he would have laid the blame had he failed as badly if Evans still owned the club. Lots more griping about players I imagine. |  |
| |
| Cook - I never took training pre season on 13:59 - Jan 6 with 3142 views | chicoazul |
| Cook - I never took training pre season on 13:55 - Jan 6 by Steve_M |
Perhaps, but also changing the structure stops everything falling apart each time the manager changes because, in theory, there's continuity of staff and players. Cook is an old school manager and thought that was the job here, which it would have been under Evans.
I do wonder where he would have laid the blame had he failed as badly if Evans still owned the club. Lots more griping about players I imagine. |
Haha definitely. Although Marcus was perfectly happy to pay his managers very big salaries to basically shut up and get on with whatever sow’s ear he gave them to work with.
I totally agree btw about your point about the club carrying on despite managers coming and going and am glad we have gone down this route. Pretty sure Cook wouldn’t have agreed to join on that basis though like you say he’s old school. | |
| |
| Cook - I never took training pre season on 14:01 - Jan 6 with 3120 views | abracaDOBRA_ |
| Cook - I never took training pre season on 13:40 - Jan 6 by HighgateBlue |
It's very hard to know whether much of what he's saying is sour grapes or whether he has a legitimate set of gripes.
When Lambert was on his way out, he moaned of the lack of structure. That was lapped up by fans, as (a) Evans was already very unpopular, and (b) the new regime that came in appointed a lot of suits, thus being able to point to a new 'structure'.
But Cook's criticism of there being a lack of a recruitment room, and using the expression "come on", indicates that he thinks that the structure that's in place now is poor, and poor in a surprising way for a club of our size.
I genuinely don't know whether the structure was that bad under Lambert compared with now, given that Lambert did better with less money, and most people rate Cook as a manager based on his success elsewhere. I genuinely don't know. Let's just hope that McKenna is able to stand up to Ashton et al if and when he sees things that he doesn't think are right.
Cook's right about one thing, certainly. If a manager is going to be the fall guy when things go badly, then he needs to have the power to control the things for which he's held accountable. For example, the training "culture" that Cook talks about. We know that fitness and getting to the end of games was a problem under his tenure. But if he was really being dictated to in respect of fitness matters, rather than a fitness coach sitting /under/ him in the pecking order, there is something wrong. I hope it doesn't stem from Ashton's desire to have everyone on the same rung below him, I really do.
Anyway, no criticism of McK so far, that's for sure. Seems just what we need... |
Its probably relatively true what he's saying, but notice how he's only really highlighted the 'negatives'. It's exactly what any manager who's been sacked would say, trying to make it look like they were working in a tough environment to take any blame away from themselves. When you look at the bigger picture, they'll be loads of positive things within the club that he's failed to mention, which of course he won't mention as it means he'd of failed with all the resources he had.
I think the structure stuff is somewhat true but it is clear the club is trying to improve that- can't be done overnight so a shame Cook couldn't have acknowledged this. And the main thing is, just don't think Cook worked under the structure the club is trying to implement. A good manager, but wrong fit for Town atm.
Bottom line is, he brought in 19 new players, owners backed him as much as they could, think he needs to start to take some blame himself. I liked him and was shocked when he was sacked but his media stuff lately seems a bit sour grapes to me. |  | | |
| Cook - I never took training pre season on 14:08 - Jan 6 with 3050 views | Sharkey |
| Cook - I never took training pre season on 13:44 - Jan 6 by chicoazul |
Maybe. I tend to think he means Rolls et al laid down the fitness sessions and Cook wasn’t allowed any input into that. Talking about lack of a boxing gym culture and hardship for players makes me think it was taken out of his hands in other words, as we would have had that had he had his way.
I mean Cook is right in a lot of what he says about head coach rather than manager these days, and how it’s still them that carries the can when it goes wrong even if they have much less input than they did ten or even five years ago. |
Colchester have a different head coach culture, and one that's problematic. When the first team fails, as it frequently does, the first team coach is replaced,but as often as not he does not leave the club. So Colchester have three or four ex- first team coaches still on the staff in various capacities. Meanwhile the director of football, Tony Humes, who is also a director, stays put. |  | | |
| Cook - I never took training pre season on 15:58 - Jan 6 with 2630 views | ArnieM |
| Cook - I never took training pre season on 13:27 - Jan 6 by heavyweight |
I assumed it to mean that the basic fitness training was done by the performance team.
I think there were some videos put out of PC taking the training session pre season.
Also with Norwood saying PCs hands were tied - presumably this is also the performance team saying he wasn't ready to play ? |
Exactly . This is an example i think, of Ashton’s “performance team”essentially undermining the manager and his team. Does this not smack of Ashton empire building or as has been said elsewhere, micro managing ?
It would appear that Cook had no say in the individuals brought in by Ashton under the heading of performance management. Hardly surprising therefore if there was a rift. Cook was not Ashtons man (puppet?), and I sincerely hope that rookie manager McKenna isn’t either.
Time will tell …. |  |
| |
| Cook - I never took training pre season on 16:18 - Jan 6 with 2546 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Cook - I never took training pre season on 15:58 - Jan 6 by ArnieM |
Exactly . This is an example i think, of Ashton’s “performance team”essentially undermining the manager and his team. Does this not smack of Ashton empire building or as has been said elsewhere, micro managing ?
It would appear that Cook had no say in the individuals brought in by Ashton under the heading of performance management. Hardly surprising therefore if there was a rift. Cook was not Ashtons man (puppet?), and I sincerely hope that rookie manager McKenna isn’t either.
Time will tell …. |
This has been explained a few times now. The manager doesn't have a say in those type of appointments (or recruitment team) because when they leave they generally take their staff with them. This way we get consistency/stability. It's how a lot of modern clubs work. It really isn't unusual. [Post edited 6 Jan 2022 16:18]
| | | |
| Cook - I never took training pre season on 16:31 - Jan 6 with 2477 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Cook - I never took training pre season on 13:40 - Jan 6 by HighgateBlue |
It's very hard to know whether much of what he's saying is sour grapes or whether he has a legitimate set of gripes.
When Lambert was on his way out, he moaned of the lack of structure. That was lapped up by fans, as (a) Evans was already very unpopular, and (b) the new regime that came in appointed a lot of suits, thus being able to point to a new 'structure'.
But Cook's criticism of there being a lack of a recruitment room, and using the expression "come on", indicates that he thinks that the structure that's in place now is poor, and poor in a surprising way for a club of our size.
I genuinely don't know whether the structure was that bad under Lambert compared with now, given that Lambert did better with less money, and most people rate Cook as a manager based on his success elsewhere. I genuinely don't know. Let's just hope that McKenna is able to stand up to Ashton et al if and when he sees things that he doesn't think are right.
Cook's right about one thing, certainly. If a manager is going to be the fall guy when things go badly, then he needs to have the power to control the things for which he's held accountable. For example, the training "culture" that Cook talks about. We know that fitness and getting to the end of games was a problem under his tenure. But if he was really being dictated to in respect of fitness matters, rather than a fitness coach sitting /under/ him in the pecking order, there is something wrong. I hope it doesn't stem from Ashton's desire to have everyone on the same rung below him, I really do.
Anyway, no criticism of McK so far, that's for sure. Seems just what we need... |
I think it really is as simple as it wasn't the job he signed up for or is used to. McKenna is your stereotypical head coach that fits the structure we want.
I'm not really sure why we see too much criticism of the 'performance team'. Our injury record this season has been far better than it has been in a long time! If you exclude COVID, it's only really Burns and Coulson that have been laid off for any amount of time? And Burns we've been managing through an injury all season to avoid overload and him being out long term. And has fitness been a problem? It was PC's inability to close out games tactically more than us getting overrun... [Post edited 6 Jan 2022 16:31]
| | | |
| Cook - I never took training pre season on 16:56 - Jan 6 with 2359 views | ArnieM |
| Cook - I never took training pre season on 16:18 - Jan 6 by tractorboy1978 |
This has been explained a few times now. The manager doesn't have a say in those type of appointments (or recruitment team) because when they leave they generally take their staff with them. This way we get consistency/stability. It's how a lot of modern clubs work. It really isn't unusual. [Post edited 6 Jan 2022 16:18]
|
Is this the model they use at Brentford ? | |
| |
| Cook - I never took training pre season on 17:08 - Jan 6 with 2313 views | itfcjoe |
| Cook - I never took training pre season on 16:56 - Jan 6 by ArnieM |
Is this the model they use at Brentford ? |
It’s basically the model they use at every club which punches above its weight - it’s obviously not guaranteed to work |  |
| |
| Cook - I never took training pre season on 17:14 - Jan 6 with 2273 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Cook - I never took training pre season on 16:56 - Jan 6 by ArnieM |
Is this the model they use at Brentford ? |
Brentford are probably the current popular model for this approach. Everything they do is informed by statistical analysis as the first step. It was one of the reasons Warburton left, as he wanted more control as per the old school manager approach.
I don't how how common having a overarching recruitment setup is, but it's certainly not unusual. I'd hazard a guess that we're playing catch up. |  |
| |
| Cook - I never took training pre season on 17:44 - Jan 6 with 2159 views | patrickswell |
| Cook - I never took training pre season on 13:55 - Jan 6 by Steve_M |
Perhaps, but also changing the structure stops everything falling apart each time the manager changes because, in theory, there's continuity of staff and players. Cook is an old school manager and thought that was the job here, which it would have been under Evans.
I do wonder where he would have laid the blame had he failed as badly if Evans still owned the club. Lots more griping about players I imagine. |
The moment I knew he was done for was when he was making many of the same complaints about this season’s squad as last season’s. |  | | |
| Cook - I never took training pre season on 17:53 - Jan 6 with 2136 views | backwaywhen |
| Cook - I never took training pre season on 13:30 - Jan 6 by nodge_blue |
Maybe. Even then he still had some players to train. What else is he going to do? Watch tv? |
Drink a few beers | | | |
| Cook - I never took training pre season on 18:07 - Jan 6 with 2070 views | Vic |
I’ve no idea what he means by ‘recruitment room’ but Indi remember it being said that the time that we didn’t have a proper recruitment set up but that this was something that wasn’t top priority and would happen after things (ie, you can’t do everything at once).
So Cookie is being disingenuous in criticising this. |  |
| |
| Cook - I never took training pre season on 18:11 - Jan 6 with 2060 views | FightingEssex |
| Cook - I never took training pre season on 13:40 - Jan 6 by HighgateBlue |
It's very hard to know whether much of what he's saying is sour grapes or whether he has a legitimate set of gripes.
When Lambert was on his way out, he moaned of the lack of structure. That was lapped up by fans, as (a) Evans was already very unpopular, and (b) the new regime that came in appointed a lot of suits, thus being able to point to a new 'structure'.
But Cook's criticism of there being a lack of a recruitment room, and using the expression "come on", indicates that he thinks that the structure that's in place now is poor, and poor in a surprising way for a club of our size.
I genuinely don't know whether the structure was that bad under Lambert compared with now, given that Lambert did better with less money, and most people rate Cook as a manager based on his success elsewhere. I genuinely don't know. Let's just hope that McKenna is able to stand up to Ashton et al if and when he sees things that he doesn't think are right.
Cook's right about one thing, certainly. If a manager is going to be the fall guy when things go badly, then he needs to have the power to control the things for which he's held accountable. For example, the training "culture" that Cook talks about. We know that fitness and getting to the end of games was a problem under his tenure. But if he was really being dictated to in respect of fitness matters, rather than a fitness coach sitting /under/ him in the pecking order, there is something wrong. I hope it doesn't stem from Ashton's desire to have everyone on the same rung below him, I really do.
Anyway, no criticism of McK so far, that's for sure. Seems just what we need... |
I really don’t think Cook is a dishonest type. As for what Lambert said about Evans, it falls in line with what Keane said he was dealing with 10 years prior, which was chaos. |  |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
