| Swans in for Fraser supposedly 12:33 - Jan 25 with 4097 views | iamipswich |
Not sure what happened with other thread |  |
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| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 13:41 - Jan 25 with 1054 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 13:34 - Jan 25 by StokieBlue |
The quote literally disagrees with you.
KM is the primary source.
You are an derived secondary source at best.
Honestly, kids learn this stuff at primary school, you need to take a step back.
SB [Post edited 25 Jan 2022 13:35]
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Clearly you didn't. |  |
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| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 13:45 - Jan 25 with 1039 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 13:41 - Jan 25 by Churchman |
You are again presenting this as fact, not as an opinion or even an interpretation. As such you are saying MA has lied to one and all. It’s no good snowing it over with an ‘it’s not wrong’. A lie is always wrong. You should approach him and make that accusation and let us know his response. |
Its not a lie. Its a recruitment process which from his first interview he said we had none of and work was needed in this area.
The days of managers spending their own time picking their own short lists and own transfers is very rare in modern football. It's now more let the club know what areas you want players for and they will come up with the goods. | |
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| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 13:45 - Jan 25 with 1032 views | StokieBlue |
| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 13:41 - Jan 25 by FrimleyBlue |
Clearly you didn't. |
Can we have ChrisMakin back please?
SB |  |
| Avatar - M51 - The Whirlpool Galaxy - Taken on 29th April 2024 |
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| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 13:54 - Jan 25 with 1011 views | rickw |
| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 13:20 - Jan 25 by FrimleyBlue |
Bored of going through it again and again SB.
You seem to think that a manager signing off a signing is the same the manager choosing someone. It's not.
But can't be bothered to try to explain football to you. |
Lets go back to the Roy Keane days!
Only sign players from the manager's previous clubs or Irishmen - even better if both!
Why bother with scouting or analytics just ask the manager for someone he knows..... [Post edited 25 Jan 2022 14:02]
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| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 13:54 - Jan 25 with 1011 views | Alberto_the_frog |
| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 13:34 - Jan 25 by StokieBlue |
The quote literally disagrees with you.
KM is the primary source.
You are an derived secondary source at best.
Honestly, kids learn this stuff at primary school, you need to take a step back.
SB [Post edited 25 Jan 2022 13:35]
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No it doesn't. Read what it actually says. "It’s going to be my final decision on it. "
That does not literally disagree with the statement
"You seem to think that a manager signing off a signing is the same the manager choosing someone. It's not."
There is a not all that subtle difference between "get me that player" and "get me a player like this" and then agreeing that the requirements were met. |  | | |
| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 14:00 - Jan 25 with 981 views | StokieBlue |
| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 13:54 - Jan 25 by Alberto_the_frog |
No it doesn't. Read what it actually says. "It’s going to be my final decision on it. "
That does not literally disagree with the statement
"You seem to think that a manager signing off a signing is the same the manager choosing someone. It's not."
There is a not all that subtle difference between "get me that player" and "get me a player like this" and then agreeing that the requirements were met. |
In the end, no player comes through the door without KM say so. It's there as direct primary evidence.
So by definition the signings are his, regardless of how the scouting is done.
It's just a long-term narrative that FrimleyMakin pushes that Ashton makes all the signings on his own like he's playing Championship Manager.
SB | |
| Avatar - M51 - The Whirlpool Galaxy - Taken on 29th April 2024 |
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| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 14:04 - Jan 25 with 961 views | WicklowBlue |
| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 13:45 - Jan 25 by StokieBlue |
Can we have ChrisMakin back please?
SB |
BCWYWF! |  | | |
| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 14:07 - Jan 25 with 963 views | Alberto_the_frog |
It would be a disappointing admission of failure of recruitment policy if we decide to let him go so soon. We cannot judge what a reasonable return would be, as we signed him for an "undisclosed fee", as usual. | | | |
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| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 14:07 - Jan 25 with 953 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 14:00 - Jan 25 by StokieBlue |
In the end, no player comes through the door without KM say so. It's there as direct primary evidence.
So by definition the signings are his, regardless of how the scouting is done.
It's just a long-term narrative that FrimleyMakin pushes that Ashton makes all the signings on his own like he's playing Championship Manager.
SB |
No that's your belief SB. I've made it quite clear how I believe it works and it's not at all Ashton playing championship manager. | |
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| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 14:21 - Jan 25 with 922 views | Illinoisblue |
| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 14:07 - Jan 25 by Alberto_the_frog |
It would be a disappointing admission of failure of recruitment policy if we decide to let him go so soon. We cannot judge what a reasonable return would be, as we signed him for an "undisclosed fee", as usual. |
Better to admit the mistake and move on. Get him off the wage bill. He’s not terrible but he’s rarely looked right for us. |  |
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| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 14:34 - Jan 25 with 888 views | Jon_456 |
| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 13:45 - Jan 25 by FrimleyBlue |
Its not a lie. Its a recruitment process which from his first interview he said we had none of and work was needed in this area.
The days of managers spending their own time picking their own short lists and own transfers is very rare in modern football. It's now more let the club know what areas you want players for and they will come up with the goods. |
What world are you living in?
You think Cook / McKenna say they want a CM and then the club go and sign a CM one day without Cook / McKenna having any knowledge of who that player might be?
Just a huge coincidence that half of those players Asthon 'picked' happened to be ex PC players?
You and your alternate accounts post some proper speculative rubbish at times. |  | | |
| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 14:39 - Jan 25 with 869 views | franz_tyson |
| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 14:07 - Jan 25 by Alberto_the_frog |
It would be a disappointing admission of failure of recruitment policy if we decide to let him go so soon. We cannot judge what a reasonable return would be, as we signed him for an "undisclosed fee", as usual. |
Part of me wants Fraser and Pigott to stay because I think they’re good players at this level, but if they’re not getting a sniff, then the best bet is to cut the losses now. We can’t go into Lambo-style squad rotation to give them some game-time and appease them.
I think mistakes were made in the summer recruitment and now it’s time to strip back the squad and let McKenna work with a leaner squad.
If it’s an admission of failure then so be it and add it to the list, but we’ve got to start making better decisions from now on without just getting the cheque-book out. | | | |
| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 14:42 - Jan 25 with 841 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 14:34 - Jan 25 by Jon_456 |
What world are you living in?
You think Cook / McKenna say they want a CM and then the club go and sign a CM one day without Cook / McKenna having any knowledge of who that player might be?
Just a huge coincidence that half of those players Asthon 'picked' happened to be ex PC players?
You and your alternate accounts post some proper speculative rubbish at times. |
No again has been explained. Have a look around. No one has said a player is recruited without the manager knowing. | |
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| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 14:45 - Jan 25 with 830 views | Jon_456 |
| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 14:42 - Jan 25 by FrimleyBlue |
No again has been explained. Have a look around. No one has said a player is recruited without the manager knowing. |
You've literally just said the managers say what areas they want and the club then finds and sign the players.
'It's now more let the club know what areas you want players for and they will come up with the goods.' | | | |
| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 14:48 - Jan 25 with 795 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 14:45 - Jan 25 by Jon_456 |
You've literally just said the managers say what areas they want and the club then finds and sign the players.
'It's now more let the club know what areas you want players for and they will come up with the goods.' |
Yes. That's not saying the manager doesn't know about it.
which is what you just implied I said.
And regards to PC. My belief is that having not worked under a recruitment set up he absolutely worked on his own targets first off. Wigan continued he turned down offers for various players that PC would have targeted. But having let so many players leave and struggling to get players in.. I do believe ashton and his team stepped in to solve the recruitment problems, by doing what they did at Bristol. And continue to do today which KM will be expecting more than PC would have been.
Again absolutely it's my belief. If in wrong in wrong it don't matter. But more and more happens to make it seem more plausible when you compare historic transfers under ashton and his team and even the first new signing under KM is a prime recruitment dept player over the old fashioned manager targeted pick. [Post edited 25 Jan 2022 14:54]
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| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 14:50 - Jan 25 with 783 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 14:45 - Jan 25 by Jon_456 |
You've literally just said the managers say what areas they want and the club then finds and sign the players.
'It's now more let the club know what areas you want players for and they will come up with the goods.' |
McKenna will have involvement but far less control over transfers than any other manager we've had in our history. Bakinson was a Probert signing - he was the one that really pushed that. | | | |
| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 14:50 - Jan 25 with 782 views | Jon_456 |
| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 14:48 - Jan 25 by FrimleyBlue |
Yes. That's not saying the manager doesn't know about it.
which is what you just implied I said.
And regards to PC. My belief is that having not worked under a recruitment set up he absolutely worked on his own targets first off. Wigan continued he turned down offers for various players that PC would have targeted. But having let so many players leave and struggling to get players in.. I do believe ashton and his team stepped in to solve the recruitment problems, by doing what they did at Bristol. And continue to do today which KM will be expecting more than PC would have been.
Again absolutely it's my belief. If in wrong in wrong it don't matter. But more and more happens to make it seem more plausible when you compare historic transfers under ashton and his team and even the first new signing under KM is a prime recruitment dept player over the old fashioned manager targeted pick. [Post edited 25 Jan 2022 14:54]
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But you're saying they're all Ashton signings, but if the managers knows about it and has to sign off on them, they're the managers signings and not Ashtons. | | | |
| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 14:51 - Jan 25 with 779 views | itfcjoe |
| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 13:22 - Jan 25 by hype313 |
What? Stokie clearly shows the sentence “Absolutely, of course. Anyone who comes in the building it’s going to be my final decision on it. "
Why are you reading things completely different to the rest of us? |
Cook said that whilst here and has subsequently said he didn’t have, or at least heavily hinted at it when he left
Ashton, with Probert, is quite clearly leading recruitment - I’m sure McK has a say, and could veto things but he’s not going to be able to go out and pick his own players.
The way we are doing it now, is absolutely the right way to be going about it |  |
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| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 14:51 - Jan 25 with 779 views | Churchman |
| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 14:07 - Jan 25 by Alberto_the_frog |
It would be a disappointing admission of failure of recruitment policy if we decide to let him go so soon. We cannot judge what a reasonable return would be, as we signed him for an "undisclosed fee", as usual. |
I think it’s more confirmation that not every signing is ever going to be a success.
It’s also reinforcement of Burley’s view that a club like Ipswich should be developing its own players, supplemented by external recruitment where necessary (my interpretation of what he said). Here we are handicapped at the moment because as Dyer pointed out, we’ve not been developing enough of our own players who are good enough. |  | | |
| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 14:58 - Jan 25 with 747 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 14:50 - Jan 25 by Jon_456 |
But you're saying they're all Ashton signings, but if the managers knows about it and has to sign off on them, they're the managers signings and not Ashtons. |
Depends how pedantic you wish to be about it all tbh.
Signing off a player that beens found for you isn't the same as finding someone yourself. So no it's not the same.
For example. KM on speaking about his new signing said he met him that morning - After signing already. Again its fine. It's not wrong. It's just how it works. | |
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| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 15:06 - Jan 25 with 720 views | franz_tyson |
| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 14:51 - Jan 25 by Churchman |
I think it’s more confirmation that not every signing is ever going to be a success.
It’s also reinforcement of Burley’s view that a club like Ipswich should be developing its own players, supplemented by external recruitment where necessary (my interpretation of what he said). Here we are handicapped at the moment because as Dyer pointed out, we’ve not been developing enough of our own players who are good enough. |
I’d say that should be the other way around. External recruitment supplemented by a few home-grown players. We’re never going to develop enough good players to be the core of the team.
Even going back to the Burley era, we had to bring in the likes of Holland, Jim, Stewart, Venus, Clapham, Johnson, Mowbray, Reuser and more with only Wright and Scowcroft supplementing them. Dyer being sold earlier to bring in other players and that make us a better team to get us into the PL.
Not every signing is going to be a success, but I do wonder if good players like Fraser and Pigott could ever succeed here unless we set up differently. Don’t think they’re failures but they get played out of position or not at all. | | | |
| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 15:10 - Jan 25 with 694 views | xrayspecs |
| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 14:07 - Jan 25 by Alberto_the_frog |
It would be a disappointing admission of failure of recruitment policy if we decide to let him go so soon. We cannot judge what a reasonable return would be, as we signed him for an "undisclosed fee", as usual. |
We recruited well this summer, in terms of bringing in quality.
What was not quite right was the balance, and I suspect that was going to be near on impossible to get right given the sheer number of signings.
What makes it difficult is not knowing who would become available when decisions were made. Barry possibly made sense until we were able to sign Edwards, who we liked more, and is hopefully a better long term financial investment than a loan.
Fraser was a good early addition but then we signed Chapin. And then Aluko and then Celina, all of whom could arguably play in the same position.
Piggott was a really good signing, then Bonne stole the shirt.
We were also left with some deadwood - Kenlock, Nolan, Jackson etc. which we are slowly moving on.
Will be interesting to see where we end this window. | | | |
| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 16:38 - Jan 25 with 585 views | Radlett_blue |
| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 13:54 - Jan 25 by rickw |
Lets go back to the Roy Keane days!
Only sign players from the manager's previous clubs or Irishmen - even better if both!
Why bother with scouting or analytics just ask the manager for someone he knows..... [Post edited 25 Jan 2022 14:02]
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Mick McCarthy generally recruited pretty well (although largely players from the British Isles) with the help of Town's Director of Football or Chief Scout Dave Bowman, |  |
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| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 18:07 - Jan 25 with 521 views | DinDjarin |
| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 12:54 - Jan 25 by RobTheMonk |
I think he's a quality player myself, but if we can use the funds to go and offer Celina a contract then I'd be game. |
Yep same here. Some people think because he aint running around at 100mph he is no good.
Probably technically the best player in the squad and who still has the best stats for chances created even though not played of late.
I would have thought he would be perfect fodder for Mck to work on and implement his skills into the team. [Post edited 25 Jan 2022 18:09]
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| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 18:15 - Jan 25 with 500 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Swans in for Fraser supposedly on 18:07 - Jan 25 by DinDjarin |
Yep same here. Some people think because he aint running around at 100mph he is no good.
Probably technically the best player in the squad and who still has the best stats for chances created even though not played of late.
I would have thought he would be perfect fodder for Mck to work on and implement his skills into the team. [Post edited 25 Jan 2022 18:09]
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Especially if we’re going to see more of McK using 2 AMs behind the lone striker. That’s exactly why Russell Martin wants him at the Swans. It’s how he had his success at MK Dons (I think) and how he sets the Swans up. This could well end up as Downes 2. We’re well covered in that area though, so I can see why we might be tempted to sell. |  |
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