| Looks like Greenwood's career is done. (n/t) 09:32 - Jan 30 with 13303 views | Simonds92 |
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| Looks like Greenwood's career is done. (n/t) on 19:28 - Jan 30 with 1472 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| Looks like Greenwood's career is done. (n/t) on 19:07 - Jan 30 by ITFC1977 |
Did she rape him too then? Few odd statements from you in this.
This hasn’t been proven yet so although you’ve made your mind up, I’m just saying that time will tell and hopefully truth will prevail.
"but the hypocrisy of people trying to say the right thing is nauseating."
Its a little bit odd to use 'but' when talking about rape and domestic abuse.
Not proven, see above.
"Caroline Flack committing suicide after attacking her BOYFRIEND and the evidence due to be made public"
Odd use of the word 'boyfriend' all in caps.
She was his “GIRLFRIEND “ just stating the situation and similarity, not justifying anything.
But ultimately, your post boils down to 'girls abuse men too'. Which of course we all know, but is not an excuse for Greenwoods alleged behaviour, Flack, who was already know to suffer with depression and low self-esteem, killed herself after a press witch-hunt, led by Dan fking Wooton, not a football message board; and no, its not the same thing.
I was making no excuse for his behaviour, far from it, merely making the point that suffering from low self-esteem ( who knows mason isn’t suffering from this) that the same witch-hunt you talk of, is now starting, not just on a football forum ( check all social media if you need clarification) and that other than the sex of each person there are a lot of similarities between the two.
Hope this answers your points.
To clarify, I don’t agree with any bullying, rape or physical violence by anybody and my point is nothing has been proven yet and although you’ve clearly made your mind up, it was similar people who made there mind up that she was a man beating bla bla bla, that contributed to her unfortunate decisions. |
Theres absolutely no similarities between the two at all. Are you mad?
If the person on that tape, (that the female calls Mason), saying "I don't give a feck what you want", is a sign of suffering from low self esteem then I'll eat my hat, and yours, and his.
Theres doubling down in your post of ChrisMakin levels, but you're deliberately moving the goalposts on Flack. She didn't kill herself because people were 'saying' she beat her boyfriend, her inquest clearly established that she did, as did her admission to the police at the time of her arrest.
What are the similarities between Flack and Greenwood? |  |
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| Looks like Greenwood's career is done. (n/t) on 19:30 - Jan 30 with 1455 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| Looks like Greenwood's career is done. (n/t) on 18:58 - Jan 30 by tractordownsouth |
I don't have kids and in some ways I feel harsh making a judgement on her dad but I'd like to think if I was a father and that happened to my child, I'd be wanting the book thrown at him and not trying to make excuses. |
If my daughter was in that situation, the 'book' would be getting thrown at me.
It would be of no use to him. | |
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| Looks like Greenwood's career is done. (n/t) on 19:34 - Jan 30 with 1435 views | ITFC1977 |
| Looks like Greenwood's career is done. (n/t) on 18:24 - Jan 30 by footers |
And that male-on-female violence, especially sexual violence, is so much more prevalent than female-on-male violence that to make such a comparison or attempt to draw equivalence is essentially pointless and insulting to the victim.
Some of the views on this thread are strange and depressing. |
That’s not true as I’ve been factual and very neutral with my comments.
What you’re actually saying is that because sexual violence is more prevalent from a male on female basis that comparing the two is pointless and insulting.
I am merely saying that all victims are equal victims but judging them before real proof and a court case is competed has serious consequences. I’m unsure of your argument as clearly most other people do.
Do you really think that because sexual violence is more prevalent from men to women that the 2 can’t be compared? Because everybody can read that is exactly what you just said. | | | |
| Looks like Greenwood's career is done. (n/t) on 19:46 - Jan 30 with 1380 views | ITFC1977 |
| Looks like Greenwood's career is done. (n/t) on 19:28 - Jan 30 by Cheltenham_Blue |
Theres absolutely no similarities between the two at all. Are you mad?
If the person on that tape, (that the female calls Mason), saying "I don't give a feck what you want", is a sign of suffering from low self esteem then I'll eat my hat, and yours, and his.
Theres doubling down in your post of ChrisMakin levels, but you're deliberately moving the goalposts on Flack. She didn't kill herself because people were 'saying' she beat her boyfriend, her inquest clearly established that she did, as did her admission to the police at the time of her arrest.
What are the similarities between Flack and Greenwood? |
No similarities between the two at all!!!
People making judgments online and in the media before each side is heard,
So because the recording says “ mason” it must be him.
Most people would say a successful presenter on love island ( most popular show nowadays ) would eat there hat if she suffered from low self esteem ( she was dating Harry styles, most girls dream, for a while) so on paper looked pretty happy and I’m sure most girls under 40 would have loved to be in her position .
She killed herself because of the witch-hunt that is happening in a similar way now. No proof, one side of story, no court case.
No similarities ?
Even you must see we may have different views but no similarities? Ok
And to clarify, if the accusations are true, he should face the consequences. But personally I will wait for the investigation to be concluded before I refuse to listen to all opinions. | | | |
| Looks like Greenwood's career is done. (n/t) on 19:53 - Jan 30 with 1333 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Looks like Greenwood's career is done. (n/t) on 19:34 - Jan 30 by ITFC1977 |
That’s not true as I’ve been factual and very neutral with my comments.
What you’re actually saying is that because sexual violence is more prevalent from a male on female basis that comparing the two is pointless and insulting.
I am merely saying that all victims are equal victims but judging them before real proof and a court case is competed has serious consequences. I’m unsure of your argument as clearly most other people do.
Do you really think that because sexual violence is more prevalent from men to women that the 2 can’t be compared? Because everybody can read that is exactly what you just said. |
I agree with you that there is a lot of speculation on here and that is not helpful from a legal standpoint. It also undermines the principle of "Presumed Innocent until Proven Guilty".
You are right that there were a lot of mental gymnastics over the Caroline Flack case following her death.
You may be right that the individual who has been arrested in conjunction with the case discussed in this thread may suffer profound mental distress over the coming days.
But, in your rush to post this as a reaction to the speculation in this thread, you have drawn a false equivalence between the Flack case and this one, and you have created the impression that your first thought on reading about this case, seeing the photos or hearing the audio, was of concern for the male alleged perpetrator rather than the female survivor of the attack.
I haven't seen the photos or heard the audio, nor do I want to. I agree with you that there has been speculation on this thread and that that is unhelpful, and now that it is a live criminal investigation, potentially illegal.
But you have made some leaps which have led others to pile in on you, mainly for the reason I state above.
I wouldn't be surprised if the thread gets pulled, now that it is a live criminal investigation, but if not it's probably best for you not to try and argue yourself out of this one. [Post edited 30 Jan 2022 19:55]
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| Looks like Greenwood's career is done. (n/t) on 20:00 - Jan 30 with 1291 views | jeera |
| Looks like Greenwood's career is done. (n/t) on 19:46 - Jan 30 by ITFC1977 |
No similarities between the two at all!!!
People making judgments online and in the media before each side is heard,
So because the recording says “ mason” it must be him.
Most people would say a successful presenter on love island ( most popular show nowadays ) would eat there hat if she suffered from low self esteem ( she was dating Harry styles, most girls dream, for a while) so on paper looked pretty happy and I’m sure most girls under 40 would have loved to be in her position .
She killed herself because of the witch-hunt that is happening in a similar way now. No proof, one side of story, no court case.
No similarities ?
Even you must see we may have different views but no similarities? Ok
And to clarify, if the accusations are true, he should face the consequences. But personally I will wait for the investigation to be concluded before I refuse to listen to all opinions. |
Plenty of men struggle with low self-esteem but manage to not beat up their partners.
Maybe it was also low self-esteem that forced him to cheat on the girl some time back and get himself removed from the England squad after sneaking a model into his hotel room.
Not only cheating of course but also breaking Covid rules and risking the entire squad's welfare.
Low self-esteem ffs. |  |
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| Looks like Greenwood's career is done. (n/t) on 20:00 - Jan 30 with 1294 views | gtsb1966 |
| Looks like Greenwood's career is done. (n/t) on 19:53 - Jan 30 by ArnoldMoorhen |
I agree with you that there is a lot of speculation on here and that is not helpful from a legal standpoint. It also undermines the principle of "Presumed Innocent until Proven Guilty".
You are right that there were a lot of mental gymnastics over the Caroline Flack case following her death.
You may be right that the individual who has been arrested in conjunction with the case discussed in this thread may suffer profound mental distress over the coming days.
But, in your rush to post this as a reaction to the speculation in this thread, you have drawn a false equivalence between the Flack case and this one, and you have created the impression that your first thought on reading about this case, seeing the photos or hearing the audio, was of concern for the male alleged perpetrator rather than the female survivor of the attack.
I haven't seen the photos or heard the audio, nor do I want to. I agree with you that there has been speculation on this thread and that that is unhelpful, and now that it is a live criminal investigation, potentially illegal.
But you have made some leaps which have led others to pile in on you, mainly for the reason I state above.
I wouldn't be surprised if the thread gets pulled, now that it is a live criminal investigation, but if not it's probably best for you not to try and argue yourself out of this one. [Post edited 30 Jan 2022 19:55]
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Why would this thread be pulled. Have a listen/read to the contents of why we are discussing this. |  | | |
| Looks like Greenwood's career is done. (n/t) on 20:02 - Jan 30 with 1286 views | WicklowBlue |
| Looks like Greenwood's career is done. (n/t) on 19:34 - Jan 30 by ITFC1977 |
That’s not true as I’ve been factual and very neutral with my comments.
What you’re actually saying is that because sexual violence is more prevalent from a male on female basis that comparing the two is pointless and insulting.
I am merely saying that all victims are equal victims but judging them before real proof and a court case is competed has serious consequences. I’m unsure of your argument as clearly most other people do.
Do you really think that because sexual violence is more prevalent from men to women that the 2 can’t be compared? Because everybody can read that is exactly what you just said. |
I do think it's probably best for you to stop debating the points you made earlier in the thread. |  | | |
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| Looks like Greenwood's career is done. (n/t) on 20:03 - Jan 30 with 1273 views | Mullet |
| Looks like Greenwood's career is done. (n/t) on 19:53 - Jan 30 by ArnoldMoorhen |
I agree with you that there is a lot of speculation on here and that is not helpful from a legal standpoint. It also undermines the principle of "Presumed Innocent until Proven Guilty".
You are right that there were a lot of mental gymnastics over the Caroline Flack case following her death.
You may be right that the individual who has been arrested in conjunction with the case discussed in this thread may suffer profound mental distress over the coming days.
But, in your rush to post this as a reaction to the speculation in this thread, you have drawn a false equivalence between the Flack case and this one, and you have created the impression that your first thought on reading about this case, seeing the photos or hearing the audio, was of concern for the male alleged perpetrator rather than the female survivor of the attack.
I haven't seen the photos or heard the audio, nor do I want to. I agree with you that there has been speculation on this thread and that that is unhelpful, and now that it is a live criminal investigation, potentially illegal.
But you have made some leaps which have led others to pile in on you, mainly for the reason I state above.
I wouldn't be surprised if the thread gets pulled, now that it is a live criminal investigation, but if not it's probably best for you not to try and argue yourself out of this one. [Post edited 30 Jan 2022 19:55]
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In fairness certain outspoken members of the #itfc community have decided to talk about more than Town today and protest trial by social media etc. It’s pretty chilling how many men are happy to victim blame etc. So any attempt at nuance just gets blasted too unless people are near surgical with their opinions. |  |
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| Looks like Greenwood's career is done. (n/t) on 20:03 - Jan 30 with 1271 views | Radlett_blue |
| Looks like Greenwood's career is done. (n/t) on 19:53 - Jan 30 by ArnoldMoorhen |
I agree with you that there is a lot of speculation on here and that is not helpful from a legal standpoint. It also undermines the principle of "Presumed Innocent until Proven Guilty".
You are right that there were a lot of mental gymnastics over the Caroline Flack case following her death.
You may be right that the individual who has been arrested in conjunction with the case discussed in this thread may suffer profound mental distress over the coming days.
But, in your rush to post this as a reaction to the speculation in this thread, you have drawn a false equivalence between the Flack case and this one, and you have created the impression that your first thought on reading about this case, seeing the photos or hearing the audio, was of concern for the male alleged perpetrator rather than the female survivor of the attack.
I haven't seen the photos or heard the audio, nor do I want to. I agree with you that there has been speculation on this thread and that that is unhelpful, and now that it is a live criminal investigation, potentially illegal.
But you have made some leaps which have led others to pile in on you, mainly for the reason I state above.
I wouldn't be surprised if the thread gets pulled, now that it is a live criminal investigation, but if not it's probably best for you not to try and argue yourself out of this one. [Post edited 30 Jan 2022 19:55]
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We also shouldn't judge Greenwood until the facts come out if he is put on trial, rather than condemning him on the basis of one person's allegations. Given the difficulty of proving such cases, it is by no means certain that he will be tried, let alone convicted. |  |
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| No, I don't want to listen to distressing audio or look at distressing images. on 20:10 - Jan 30 with 1229 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Looks like Greenwood's career is done. (n/t) on 20:00 - Jan 30 by gtsb1966 |
Why would this thread be pulled. Have a listen/read to the contents of why we are discussing this. |
Because people have named a specific individual in a case in which an individual has been arrested and not named by Police, and some have clearly shown that they presume the guilt of the named individual.
All of which can prejudice a trial, and are not allowed on UK media, including websites.
If any of us were ever accused of a sexual assault or rape, we would want a fair trial.
If any of us were ever the survivor of a sexual assault or rape we would want our attacker to come to trial, and not have the case dropped because of speculation on football message boards demonastrating that a fair trial is not possible. | | | |
| Looks like Greenwood's career is done. (n/t) on 20:12 - Jan 30 with 1225 views | ITFC1977 |
| Looks like Greenwood's career is done. (n/t) on 19:53 - Jan 30 by ArnoldMoorhen |
I agree with you that there is a lot of speculation on here and that is not helpful from a legal standpoint. It also undermines the principle of "Presumed Innocent until Proven Guilty".
You are right that there were a lot of mental gymnastics over the Caroline Flack case following her death.
You may be right that the individual who has been arrested in conjunction with the case discussed in this thread may suffer profound mental distress over the coming days.
But, in your rush to post this as a reaction to the speculation in this thread, you have drawn a false equivalence between the Flack case and this one, and you have created the impression that your first thought on reading about this case, seeing the photos or hearing the audio, was of concern for the male alleged perpetrator rather than the female survivor of the attack.
I haven't seen the photos or heard the audio, nor do I want to. I agree with you that there has been speculation on this thread and that that is unhelpful, and now that it is a live criminal investigation, potentially illegal.
But you have made some leaps which have led others to pile in on you, mainly for the reason I state above.
I wouldn't be surprised if the thread gets pulled, now that it is a live criminal investigation, but if not it's probably best for you not to try and argue yourself out of this one. [Post edited 30 Jan 2022 19:55]
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I’ve heard the audio and seen the images. It’s disgraceful and disgusting, I have a 6 year old daughter myself and you’ll see I’ve liked many comments disagreeing with certain points I’ve raised.
My point, which I think has been diluted by people trying to dismiss my opinion that we should be careful of making full judgment, on somebody, who we’ve only heard one side of the story and even though he’s a premier league footballer with the world at his feet and earning lots of money deserves his right to defend himself.
The Caroline Flack situation has many similarities ( despite some saying it has none, thank you for confirming it does) was just a warning that If you were against the witch-hunt that she got, be careful of not doing the same here.
I only have concern for the victim, but that doesn’t mean that I’ll make my mind up before any facts have been established. At the moment everybody is drawing conclusions of a few instagram posts that if it was a transfer rumour, everybody would laugh and say instagram/twitter nonsense.
To clarify, if it’s him amd the rumours are true, I hope he gets the harshest of sentences. | | | |
| Looks like Greenwood's career is done. (n/t) on 20:19 - Jan 30 with 1199 views | DeepBlueSea |
| Looks like Greenwood's career is done. (n/t) on 19:34 - Jan 30 by ITFC1977 |
That’s not true as I’ve been factual and very neutral with my comments.
What you’re actually saying is that because sexual violence is more prevalent from a male on female basis that comparing the two is pointless and insulting.
I am merely saying that all victims are equal victims but judging them before real proof and a court case is competed has serious consequences. I’m unsure of your argument as clearly most other people do.
Do you really think that because sexual violence is more prevalent from men to women that the 2 can’t be compared? Because everybody can read that is exactly what you just said. |
In the context of what we're discussing, comparing the two is pointless and unnecessary. I don't know you, but from my perspective, giving you the best possible benefit of the doubt, your contribution to this thread shows an astonishing lack of situational awareness. And that's the best possible interpretation. Have a think about this, please. | | | |
| Looks like Greenwood's career is done. (n/t) on 20:21 - Jan 30 with 1196 views | ITFC1977 |
| Looks like Greenwood's career is done. (n/t) on 20:00 - Jan 30 by jeera |
Plenty of men struggle with low self-esteem but manage to not beat up their partners.
Maybe it was also low self-esteem that forced him to cheat on the girl some time back and get himself removed from the England squad after sneaking a model into his hotel room.
Not only cheating of course but also breaking Covid rules and risking the entire squad's welfare.
Low self-esteem ffs. |
He previously cheated on his girlfriend and broke covid rules. 60% of footballer’s at a guess
As I’ve said the beating up of partner is not proven. When it is, I’m with you. You seem to miss the point that this is speculation at the moment.
I’m not saying he has low self esteem, I was replying to someone saying that the example I gave had low self esteem, I was agreeing with you that low self esteem is no excuse to be violent to your partner or anybody. You’re twisting my words now. | | | |
| Looks like Greenwood's career is done. (n/t) on 20:26 - Jan 30 with 1169 views | gtsb1966 |
| Looks like Greenwood's career is done. (n/t) on 20:21 - Jan 30 by ITFC1977 |
He previously cheated on his girlfriend and broke covid rules. 60% of footballer’s at a guess
As I’ve said the beating up of partner is not proven. When it is, I’m with you. You seem to miss the point that this is speculation at the moment.
I’m not saying he has low self esteem, I was replying to someone saying that the example I gave had low self esteem, I was agreeing with you that low self esteem is no excuse to be violent to your partner or anybody. You’re twisting my words now. |
What about telling your partner you are going to f*** them whether they like it or not. | | | |
| Looks like Greenwood's career is done. (n/t) on 20:31 - Jan 30 with 1146 views | ITFC1977 |
| Looks like Greenwood's career is done. (n/t) on 20:19 - Jan 30 by DeepBlueSea |
In the context of what we're discussing, comparing the two is pointless and unnecessary. I don't know you, but from my perspective, giving you the best possible benefit of the doubt, your contribution to this thread shows an astonishing lack of situational awareness. And that's the best possible interpretation. Have a think about this, please. |
Thank you for the benefit of doubt.
I don’t know you either and I take your comments are coming from a good place.
All I was originally saying was speculating on anything when hearing only one side can have dramatic consequences. That’s why I gave the very raw example.
I am allowed an opinion and I believe everything I’ve said has been factual and although people might not agree, we are allowed to have different views. | | | |
| No, I don't want to listen to distressing audio or look at distressing images. on 20:32 - Jan 30 with 1137 views | ZXBlue |
| No, I don't want to listen to distressing audio or look at distressing images. on 20:10 - Jan 30 by ArnoldMoorhen |
Because people have named a specific individual in a case in which an individual has been arrested and not named by Police, and some have clearly shown that they presume the guilt of the named individual.
All of which can prejudice a trial, and are not allowed on UK media, including websites.
If any of us were ever accused of a sexual assault or rape, we would want a fair trial.
If any of us were ever the survivor of a sexual assault or rape we would want our attacker to come to trial, and not have the case dropped because of speculation on football message boards demonastrating that a fair trial is not possible. |
The media have clearly named him. But there is a point in there, about anonymity in these situations which is not generally available. | | | |
| Looks like Greenwood's career is done. (n/t) on 20:36 - Jan 30 with 1120 views | ITFC1977 |
| Looks like Greenwood's career is done. (n/t) on 20:26 - Jan 30 by gtsb1966 |
What about telling your partner you are going to f*** them whether they like it or not. |
It’s not been confirmed who has said that.
This really isn’t difficult to grasp is it? | | | |
| No, I don't want to listen to distressing audio or look at distressing images. on 20:39 - Jan 30 with 1095 views | billlm |
| No, I don't want to listen to distressing audio or look at distressing images. on 20:32 - Jan 30 by ZXBlue |
The media have clearly named him. But there is a point in there, about anonymity in these situations which is not generally available. |
She called him mason in the audio, granted she never said greenwood, |  | | |
| Looks like Greenwood's career is done. (n/t) on 20:41 - Jan 30 with 1067 views | gtsb1966 |
| Looks like Greenwood's career is done. (n/t) on 20:36 - Jan 30 by ITFC1977 |
It’s not been confirmed who has said that.
This really isn’t difficult to grasp is it? |
Ok. It isn't him | | | |
| Looks like Greenwood's career is done. (n/t) on 20:56 - Jan 30 with 997 views | ITFC1977 |
| Looks like Greenwood's career is done. (n/t) on 20:41 - Jan 30 by gtsb1966 |
Ok. It isn't him |
This comment was exactly why I made my original comment. And this is more acceptable than my view? Wow | | | |
| Looks like Greenwood's career is done. (n/t) on 20:59 - Jan 30 with 983 views | gtsb1966 |
| Looks like Greenwood's career is done. (n/t) on 20:56 - Jan 30 by ITFC1977 |
This comment was exactly why I made my original comment. And this is more acceptable than my view? Wow |
Who is it | | | |
| No, I don't want to listen to distressing audio or look at distressing images. on 21:01 - Jan 30 with 974 views | Swansea_Blue |
| No, I don't want to listen to distressing audio or look at distressing images. on 20:32 - Jan 30 by ZXBlue |
The media have clearly named him. But there is a point in there, about anonymity in these situations which is not generally available. |
Quite. Her social media post named him (although according to her father, her phone had been hacked). The press have named him as the person arrested for rape and assault, her media post talked about ‘this is what Mason does to me’ (or words very similar). Her father commented that the relationship was not in a good place. And Man U have publicly announced that he’s been suspended and that they don’t condone violence.
Granted, with regards to a criminal case he’s presumed innocent until proven guilty. Not looking good for him though. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with people on here linking him to the event - it’s all information on public record elsewhere.
Speculation beyond what’s in the public domain is probably not a good idea though. |  |
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| Looks like Greenwood's career is done. (n/t) on 21:04 - Jan 30 with 957 views | ITFC1977 |
| Looks like Greenwood's career is done. (n/t) on 20:59 - Jan 30 by gtsb1966 |
Who is it |
Nobody knows at the moment, other than you. | | | |
| Looks like Greenwood's career is done. (n/t) on 21:07 - Jan 30 with 947 views | RamRob |
| Looks like Greenwood's career is done. (n/t) on 20:31 - Jan 30 by ITFC1977 |
Thank you for the benefit of doubt.
I don’t know you either and I take your comments are coming from a good place.
All I was originally saying was speculating on anything when hearing only one side can have dramatic consequences. That’s why I gave the very raw example.
I am allowed an opinion and I believe everything I’ve said has been factual and although people might not agree, we are allowed to have different views. |
Of course you're allowed an opinion but so are other people, are you just expecting to leave a post and have everyone just agree and give you a thumbs up?
You've made your point, what more is there to add?
As far as I'm aware re: Caroline Flack, the boyfriend didn't want to press charges, but because someone else did it was going to court. |  |
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