| Diane Abbott says 14:36 - Feb 11 with 6286 views | giant_stow |
"We see that the United States has decided that it needs to send US and other Nato troops to Russian borders. This alone should tell us that Russia is the aggressor should be treated sceptically,"
and
"The destabilisation in the entire region comes from the continued eastward expansion of Nato. We need to find peaceful solutions to a complicated conflict of identities and national rights."
I think she's got this arse about tit: there wouldn't be Nato reinforcements if Russia hadn't massed an invasion force on Ukraine's border.
And Russia doing this demonstrates exactly why Eastern European countries were so keen to join Nato! Or would she rather they had no agency to make those decisions?
Granted, Ukraine can probably never join and fingers crossed for it being declared neutral.
Edit: to add a 'nt! [Post edited 11 Feb 2022 15:23]
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| Diane Abbott says on 16:18 - Feb 11 with 1328 views | Darth_Koont |
| Diane Abbott says on 16:09 - Feb 11 by itfcjoe |
It's like some on that part of the left still think Russia is the USSR and can't see what it is now. |
Gmpf.
Although it certainly does seem that some people are cheering on US hegemony like they’ve learnt absolutely nothing over the decades. |  |
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| Diane Abbott says on 16:51 - Feb 11 with 1279 views | giant_stow |
| Diane Abbott says on 16:18 - Feb 11 by Darth_Koont |
Gmpf.
Although it certainly does seem that some people are cheering on US hegemony like they’ve learnt absolutely nothing over the decades. |
I can't see anyone cheerleading US Hegemony really - just anxiety.
Its fair to say though that personally, I'd pick the iffy version of democracy we in the west have, over the Russian gangsterism or China's dystopian techno-dictatorship. Fair enough, those shouldn't be the only options, but pragmatism dictates my vote. | |
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| Diane Abbott says on 17:20 - Feb 11 with 1241 views | lowhouseblue |
| Diane Abbott says on 15:31 - Feb 11 by Darth_Koont |
But the Ukraine isn’t in NATO hence the proxy nature.
Ideally Putin’s aggression would be dealt with by a UN that hasn’t been neutered by powers like the US and others to maintain their influence and that of its allies.
The old sphere of influence nonsense is the root cause of this stuff and the mess of the Middle East. |
"Ideally Putin’s aggression would be dealt with by a UN that hasn’t been neutered by powers like the US and others to maintain their influence and that of its allies."
you think, other than US neutering, the un would deal with russian aggression? do you know how un security council vetos work? and do you know who the permanent members of the security council include? |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Diane Abbott says on 17:22 - Feb 11 with 1243 views | lowhouseblue |
diane abbott says .... it's never a sentence that's going to end well is it.
[edited for incomprehensibility ] [Post edited 11 Feb 2022 17:36]
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| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Diane Abbott says on 17:25 - Feb 11 with 1224 views | noggin |
| Diane Abbott says on 17:22 - Feb 11 by lowhouseblue |
diane abbott says .... it's never a sentence that's going to end well is it.
[edited for incomprehensibility ] [Post edited 11 Feb 2022 17:36]
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Her use of grammar is pretty good though. Your post doesn't even make sense. [Post edited 11 Feb 2022 17:28]
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| Diane Abbott says on 17:32 - Feb 11 with 1199 views | Guthrum |
| Diane Abbott says on 15:30 - Feb 11 by giant_stow |
I think you might be a bit out of date with 'Russia's decrepit armed forces', or so I read anyway.
Maybe it would have been better to disband NAto in that sweet spot a few years after the fall of the soviet union, yes. But here we are and I would ask if this is caused by NAto expansionism, why does Russia act now, when the vast bulk of 'new' Nato members have belonged to the org for nearly 20 years? |
Putin has spent much of the last 20 years renovating and modernising key bits of Russia's armed forces. Particularly the air force, armour, special forces and air defence (the S-400 system is, by all accounts, very good). |  |
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| Diane Abbott says on 17:44 - Feb 11 with 1162 views | nodge_blue |
| Diane Abbott says on 15:19 - Feb 11 by chicoazul |
She’s right. |
If there was expansion then Ukraine would have already been in NATO. |  |
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| Diane Abbott says on 18:47 - Feb 11 with 1089 views | Darth_Koont |
| Diane Abbott says on 17:20 - Feb 11 by lowhouseblue |
"Ideally Putin’s aggression would be dealt with by a UN that hasn’t been neutered by powers like the US and others to maintain their influence and that of its allies."
you think, other than US neutering, the un would deal with russian aggression? do you know how un security council vetos work? and do you know who the permanent members of the security council include? |
No, I’m painfully aware how neutered the UN is.
The way we, and the rest of the security council, operate belongs in the last century.
If we consider ourselves leaders then lead by example. | |
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| Diane Abbott says on 18:48 - Feb 11 with 1083 views | Darth_Koont |
| Diane Abbott says on 16:51 - Feb 11 by giant_stow |
I can't see anyone cheerleading US Hegemony really - just anxiety.
Its fair to say though that personally, I'd pick the iffy version of democracy we in the west have, over the Russian gangsterism or China's dystopian techno-dictatorship. Fair enough, those shouldn't be the only options, but pragmatism dictates my vote. |
But that’s the problem.
Low f&£@ing standards. | |
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| Diane Abbott says on 18:53 - Feb 11 with 1069 views | lowhouseblue |
| Diane Abbott says on 18:47 - Feb 11 by Darth_Koont |
No, I’m painfully aware how neutered the UN is.
The way we, and the rest of the security council, operate belongs in the last century.
If we consider ourselves leaders then lead by example. |
on this occasion is it neutered by the US as you claimed?
leading at the moment is committing to serious sanctions if russia invades. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Diane Abbott says on 18:57 - Feb 11 with 1050 views | Durovigutum |
| Diane Abbott says on 15:52 - Feb 11 by Darth_Koont |
He said the right things back then. But I think Starmer is much more the old-school, establishment-loving authoritarian when he has the chance.
As soon as he’s become leader he’s miraculously shifted right on almost any and every issue. |
Ok, just to be clear here. You are ignoring his actual record and the evidence of action and instead placing personal opinion down instead?
It's no wonder Labour lose elections. The chap who stood as Labour in 2019 in my local constituency tweeted last week about "war criminal Tony Blair". Not "most successful Labour PM since Harold Wilson, Tony Blair".
I'm no Labour voter, but if you can ignore the stain of Iraq there is a good argument that Blair is the best PM since Harold Wilson. Or even back earlier than that, as Wilson had some foibles.
I'd take Blair over the last three, and I suspect if Brown hadn't been socially inept he'd have actually been pretty good too. |  | | |
| Diane Abbott says on 18:59 - Feb 11 with 1039 views | Darth_Koont |
| Diane Abbott says on 18:53 - Feb 11 by lowhouseblue |
on this occasion is it neutered by the US as you claimed?
leading at the moment is committing to serious sanctions if russia invades. |
Russia and China are bad enough. I’m talking about our standards.
We don’t defend international justice, we defend our interests. | |
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| Diane Abbott says on 19:03 - Feb 11 with 1017 views | Darth_Koont |
| Diane Abbott says on 18:57 - Feb 11 by Durovigutum |
Ok, just to be clear here. You are ignoring his actual record and the evidence of action and instead placing personal opinion down instead?
It's no wonder Labour lose elections. The chap who stood as Labour in 2019 in my local constituency tweeted last week about "war criminal Tony Blair". Not "most successful Labour PM since Harold Wilson, Tony Blair".
I'm no Labour voter, but if you can ignore the stain of Iraq there is a good argument that Blair is the best PM since Harold Wilson. Or even back earlier than that, as Wilson had some foibles.
I'd take Blair over the last three, and I suspect if Brown hadn't been socially inept he'd have actually been pretty good too. |
That’s your choice.
I think your opinion is part of the problem.
This so-called pragmatism seems pretty impractical when it comes to helping people in the UK. Almost as if it’s a self-serving policy void. | |
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| Diane Abbott says on 19:06 - Feb 11 with 994 views | giant_stow |
| Diane Abbott says on 19:03 - Feb 11 by Darth_Koont |
That’s your choice.
I think your opinion is part of the problem.
This so-called pragmatism seems pretty impractical when it comes to helping people in the UK. Almost as if it’s a self-serving policy void. |
As an idealist, I understand why you're not happy, but what's your solution to the immediate problem, out of interest? | |
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| Diane Abbott says on 19:08 - Feb 11 with 986 views | lowhouseblue |
| Diane Abbott says on 18:59 - Feb 11 by Darth_Koont |
Russia and China are bad enough. I’m talking about our standards.
We don’t defend international justice, we defend our interests. |
ahh, the screech of reverse gear engaging. [Post edited 11 Feb 2022 19:09]
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| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Diane Abbott says on 19:16 - Feb 11 with 961 views | Darth_Koont |
| Diane Abbott says on 19:08 - Feb 11 by lowhouseblue |
ahh, the screech of reverse gear engaging. [Post edited 11 Feb 2022 19:09]
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| Diane Abbott says on 19:18 - Feb 11 with 950 views | Darth_Koont |
| Diane Abbott says on 19:06 - Feb 11 by giant_stow |
As an idealist, I understand why you're not happy, but what's your solution to the immediate problem, out of interest? |
What is the immediate problem? It’s been building for years. | |
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| Diane Abbott says on 19:49 - Feb 11 with 904 views | monytowbray |
I wonder how many Western politicians will get thrown under the bus of we proper fall out with Russia? I’m surprised Johnson isn’t at their defence or steering the boat the other way like the Trumps.
My fear is more China longer term, how a trade deal will exist when sh1t hits the fan I don’t know, but they own our entire manufacturing industry (because we gave it to them for cheap labour). |  |
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| Diane Abbott says on 19:59 - Feb 11 with 873 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Diane Abbott says on 15:28 - Feb 11 by SouperJim |
Jesus feck, bit of a leap there |
Oh I don’t know. It’s pretty obvious Starmer would have led us into conflict against Sargon the Great as he formed the Akkadian Empire across Mesopotamia.
If fact I’ve heard it on good authority the Keir was even responsible for integrating the word ‘werre’ into the Old English language, from which our word ‘war’ originated. If that isn’t proof he’s a wrong-un I don’t know what it.
Sarcasm aside, his comments on Stop the War and being pro-NATO in this case seem to have ruffled a few feathers. I don’t know the half of it, but I’d have thought the idea of something like NATO is good in principle. Sure it would be better to eradicate war completely, but that will never happen as long as egotistical maniacs take over countries. |  |
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| Diane Abbott says on 20:14 - Feb 11 with 842 views | jeera |
| Diane Abbott says on 19:59 - Feb 11 by Swansea_Blue |
Oh I don’t know. It’s pretty obvious Starmer would have led us into conflict against Sargon the Great as he formed the Akkadian Empire across Mesopotamia.
If fact I’ve heard it on good authority the Keir was even responsible for integrating the word ‘werre’ into the Old English language, from which our word ‘war’ originated. If that isn’t proof he’s a wrong-un I don’t know what it.
Sarcasm aside, his comments on Stop the War and being pro-NATO in this case seem to have ruffled a few feathers. I don’t know the half of it, but I’d have thought the idea of something like NATO is good in principle. Sure it would be better to eradicate war completely, but that will never happen as long as egotistical maniacs take over countries. |
I'm all for alliances, the more the better.
For each nation that joins is one less that is likely to attack you.
What's not to like? |  |
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| Diane Abbott says on 20:22 - Feb 11 with 828 views | Trequartista |
Russia has some legitimate concerns about eastward NATO expansion, but it's not to be treated like a normal nation. They've been proven as liars about everything. The passenger plane they accidentally shot down, the poisoning on our soil, cheating in Olympic sport, the attempts on the life of Navalny, the sudden deaths of so many people who have crossed them, the list is endless.
I still can't understand why we allow RT, a state owned news channel to broadcast its propaganda in our country, with English and American journalists, who must surely know they are complicit in this. Maybe they will be prosecuted for treason one day.
I'm thinking i will get some replies saying Boris Johnson lies as well. I don't think the deeds i've listed are comparable [Post edited 11 Feb 2022 20:27]
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| Diane Abbott says on 20:37 - Feb 11 with 806 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Diane Abbott says on 20:14 - Feb 11 by jeera |
I'm all for alliances, the more the better.
For each nation that joins is one less that is likely to attack you.
What's not to like? |
Well that’s what I’d have thought too. I don’t understand talk about Nato expansion either. The membership may be grow, but when have they ever land grabbed? What Nato does is in no way comparable to posturing to invade another state. | |
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| Diane Abbott says on 20:50 - Feb 11 with 787 views | jeera |
| Diane Abbott says on 20:37 - Feb 11 by Swansea_Blue |
Well that’s what I’d have thought too. I don’t understand talk about Nato expansion either. The membership may be grow, but when have they ever land grabbed? What Nato does is in no way comparable to posturing to invade another state. |
Quite.
The nature of Russia's response is precisely the reason a coalition of other countries needs to exist.
It's not difficult is it. | |
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| Diane Abbott says on 21:12 - Feb 11 with 778 views | Durovigutum |
| Diane Abbott says on 19:03 - Feb 11 by Darth_Koont |
That’s your choice.
I think your opinion is part of the problem.
This so-called pragmatism seems pretty impractical when it comes to helping people in the UK. Almost as if it’s a self-serving policy void. |
I didn't say I'd take him over a revolution in politics, but he was as soft a neo-liberal as we've had in my lifetime. I'd take him over all those.
I'm reading Hardman's "why we get the wrong politicians" and we are stuck somewhere just after Cromwell.
Labour have to put in a better electoral system, we have managed decline for all but a small percentage of the population otherwise. A better system gives a chance for decent debate and a less myopic closed loop way of thinking. | | | |
| Diane Abbott says on 10:04 - Feb 12 with 651 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Diane Abbott says on 15:38 - Feb 11 by Darth_Koont |
Keir Starmer who’s intimating a doubling of the defense budget to 5% of GDP?
Welcome back, Tony. It’s like you never left. |
Hey Koonters! I thought of you when I saw this. Just in case you are considering a career change. 
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