| So no cutting off Russia from Swift then? 03:50 - Feb 25 with 4095 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
The Germans keeping Biden well and truly in check. If Afghanistan didn’t send enough signals, Putin surely now smells blood. The Ukrainian people at least will still put up a fight even if everyone else just stands by with a few tough words and some “sanctions”. It’s laughable really, what has Putin got to lose, he knows no one is actually going to do anything about this. NATO will just look weaker and weaker (and get a lot less American money in the future I might add).
Genuine question, what are the repercussions on an international stage nowadays, I mean outside of hosting a major global tournament.
Tick tock…. Taiwan
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| So no cutting off Russia from Swift then? on 05:49 - Feb 25 with 2358 views | solomon |
It’s far from a done deal that Russia can ultimately win. Clandestine wars have been fought for some time by ours and other governments. From Vietnam to Afghanistan (not to mention other conflicts) large military powers have succumbed to guerrilla warfare which has stretched out over extended periods with funds from foreign governments , couple that with sanctions that bite harder as time goes by I would think the most vulnerable person (apart from the innocent Ukrainians)in this conflict is Putin himself. |  | | |
| So no cutting off Russia from Swift then? on 06:26 - Feb 25 with 2316 views | geg1992 |
I dont think Taiwan is comparable. Dont several countries including the USA have agreements to defend it?
Im so frustrated over the lack of action including not cutting Russia off from Swift. Putin is making a complete mockery of the West. |  |
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| So no cutting off Russia from Swift then? on 07:27 - Feb 25 with 2199 views | WD19 |
| So no cutting off Russia from Swift then? on 06:26 - Feb 25 by geg1992 |
I dont think Taiwan is comparable. Dont several countries including the USA have agreements to defend it?
Im so frustrated over the lack of action including not cutting Russia off from Swift. Putin is making a complete mockery of the West. |
Hopefully a stray missile from North Korea will cut off the Russian gas pipeline to China. It’s difficult to see what else at this stage will have any impact on proceedings. |  | | |
| So no cutting off Russia from Swift then? on 07:54 - Feb 25 with 2143 views | Lord_Lucan |
UK and USA have recommended Russia is removed from SWIFT but EU don't agree. This would be much more effective and damaging to Russia than any current sanctions.
UK also leading the backing up of Ukraine with defence supplies and intelligence
Yet of course UK is too soft and corrupt according to some.
As an aside............Russia public staging demonstrations and although Russia seems to be steamrolling through, things aren't going all their way. [Post edited 25 Feb 2022 7:59]
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| So no cutting off Russia from Swift then? on 08:08 - Feb 25 with 2080 views | Churchman |
| So no cutting off Russia from Swift then? on 07:54 - Feb 25 by Lord_Lucan |
UK and USA have recommended Russia is removed from SWIFT but EU don't agree. This would be much more effective and damaging to Russia than any current sanctions.
UK also leading the backing up of Ukraine with defence supplies and intelligence
Yet of course UK is too soft and corrupt according to some.
As an aside............Russia public staging demonstrations and although Russia seems to be steamrolling through, things aren't going all their way. [Post edited 25 Feb 2022 7:59]
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The biggest objector to cutting them off appears to be Germany - surprise surprise.
https://www.ft.com/content/69f72de5-d727-496d-9f9d-316db7bdaf03
As for the Russians who are protesting about this, they are incredibly brave. I do fear for them. |  | | |
| So no cutting off Russia from Swift then? on 08:09 - Feb 25 with 2076 views | giant_stow |
| So no cutting off Russia from Swift then? on 07:54 - Feb 25 by Lord_Lucan |
UK and USA have recommended Russia is removed from SWIFT but EU don't agree. This would be much more effective and damaging to Russia than any current sanctions.
UK also leading the backing up of Ukraine with defence supplies and intelligence
Yet of course UK is too soft and corrupt according to some.
As an aside............Russia public staging demonstrations and although Russia seems to be steamrolling through, things aren't going all their way. [Post edited 25 Feb 2022 7:59]
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I think the Germans are wondering how they'll pay for the Russian gas without this payment system. Plus the Russians would probably stop supplying it in retaliation in any case. We in the west need a new source of energy incredibly urgently. Covid style reaction needed. |  |
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| So no cutting off Russia from Swift then? on 08:10 - Feb 25 with 2059 views | Steve_M |
| So no cutting off Russia from Swift then? on 07:54 - Feb 25 by Lord_Lucan |
UK and USA have recommended Russia is removed from SWIFT but EU don't agree. This would be much more effective and damaging to Russia than any current sanctions.
UK also leading the backing up of Ukraine with defence supplies and intelligence
Yet of course UK is too soft and corrupt according to some.
As an aside............Russia public staging demonstrations and although Russia seems to be steamrolling through, things aren't going all their way. [Post edited 25 Feb 2022 7:59]
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I'm not sure that that is actually true, the US sanctions on the Russian banking sector are punitive and probably more effective. (I read something informed on this yesterday and will try and find it in a bit).
SWIFT is just a messenger service. |  |
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| So no cutting off Russia from Swift then? on 08:13 - Feb 25 with 2042 views | blueislander |
| So no cutting off Russia from Swift then? on 07:54 - Feb 25 by Lord_Lucan |
UK and USA have recommended Russia is removed from SWIFT but EU don't agree. This would be much more effective and damaging to Russia than any current sanctions.
UK also leading the backing up of Ukraine with defence supplies and intelligence
Yet of course UK is too soft and corrupt according to some.
As an aside............Russia public staging demonstrations and although Russia seems to be steamrolling through, things aren't going all their way. [Post edited 25 Feb 2022 7:59]
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Germany will resist denying Russia access to Swift, as they are totally dependent on Russian oil and gas and have to pay for.the reverse of that is that if Russia can’t sell its oil and gas it will be greatly weakened economically. |  | | |
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| So no cutting off Russia from Swift then? on 08:16 - Feb 25 with 2024 views | Lord_Lucan |
| So no cutting off Russia from Swift then? on 08:10 - Feb 25 by Steve_M |
I'm not sure that that is actually true, the US sanctions on the Russian banking sector are punitive and probably more effective. (I read something informed on this yesterday and will try and find it in a bit).
SWIFT is just a messenger service. |
I disagree with this. Cutting them from SWIFT is a sledgehammer. | |
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| So no cutting off Russia from Swift then? on 08:22 - Feb 25 with 1978 views | Churchman |
| So no cutting off Russia from Swift then? on 08:09 - Feb 25 by giant_stow |
I think the Germans are wondering how they'll pay for the Russian gas without this payment system. Plus the Russians would probably stop supplying it in retaliation in any case. We in the west need a new source of energy incredibly urgently. Covid style reaction needed. |
I agree with this. Is there political will in some European countries? I read something yesterday that suggested Germany has staked a lot on embedding itself with Russia on the energy front because it’s cheap and plentiful, but also seen a way of guaranteeing peace through economic ties. Former Chancellor Schroeder sits on Gazprom’s Board interestingly.
I don’t know whether to believe this, but it is also said that basically Germany feels a moral debt to Russia for the millions it killed there in WW2. If that’s the case, it’s rather ironic that proportionately they killed far more Ukrainians but would appear to feel no more obligation than 50 helmets.
I suspect their attitude mostly comes back to Russian energy, as you suggest. A rapid change is definitely needed. | | | |
| So no cutting off Russia from Swift then? on 08:22 - Feb 25 with 1980 views | You_Bloo_Right |
| So no cutting off Russia from Swift then? on 07:54 - Feb 25 by Lord_Lucan |
UK and USA have recommended Russia is removed from SWIFT but EU don't agree. This would be much more effective and damaging to Russia than any current sanctions.
UK also leading the backing up of Ukraine with defence supplies and intelligence
Yet of course UK is too soft and corrupt according to some.
As an aside............Russia public staging demonstrations and although Russia seems to be steamrolling through, things aren't going all their way. [Post edited 25 Feb 2022 7:59]
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According to this the US are softer on the idea of a SWIFT ban
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/feb/24/what-is-swift-international-p
but hints here of a lack of unity at least in the G7 about the ban as you say
https://www.ft.com/content/69f72de5-d727-496d-9f9d-316db7bdaf03
Shouldn't there be an acceptance in the west that sanctions of whatever nature will likely cause issues for us too and that this is a price worth paying? Or does it depend on the price? |  |
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| So no cutting off Russia from Swift then? on 08:33 - Feb 25 with 1936 views | Vic |
How on earth has Russia not been immediately removed from the presidency of the UN Security Council? |  |
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| So no cutting off Russia from Swift then? on 08:35 - Feb 25 with 1928 views | Lord_Lucan |
The loon won't stop at Ukraine and attacking him militarily has the potential of a nuclear exchange.
We need to throw everything at him even if it means paying more for energy and consumables. | |
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| So no cutting off Russia from Swift then? on 08:40 - Feb 25 with 1909 views | Vic |
| So no cutting off Russia from Swift then? on 08:35 - Feb 25 by Lord_Lucan |
The loon won't stop at Ukraine and attacking him militarily has the potential of a nuclear exchange.
We need to throw everything at him even if it means paying more for energy and consumables. |
It won’t be any good people complaining ‘but look what the sanctions are doing to the innocent population’. Sadly they will and must suffer as a result of their leaders aggression, just as the population in general of Ukraine are about to suffer. You are right - we need to throw everything at this. | |
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| So no cutting off Russia from Swift then? on 08:44 - Feb 25 with 1887 views | Mullet |
| So no cutting off Russia from Swift then? on 08:10 - Feb 25 by Steve_M |
I'm not sure that that is actually true, the US sanctions on the Russian banking sector are punitive and probably more effective. (I read something informed on this yesterday and will try and find it in a bit).
SWIFT is just a messenger service. |
This exchange looks fairly reliable
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| So no cutting off Russia from Swift then? on 08:48 - Feb 25 with 1857 views | Lord_Lucan |
| So no cutting off Russia from Swift then? on 08:44 - Feb 25 by Mullet |
This exchange looks fairly reliable
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Does it? [Post edited 25 Feb 2022 8:49]
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| So no cutting off Russia from Swift then? on 08:52 - Feb 25 with 1837 views | Mullet |
| So no cutting off Russia from Swift then? on 08:48 - Feb 25 by Lord_Lucan |
Does it? [Post edited 25 Feb 2022 8:49]
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Certainly if the precedent is true. I'm no expert on US banking history, but the exchange seemed to clarify the discussion here.
Happy to be told what's wrong. | |
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| So no cutting off Russia from Swift then? on 09:13 - Feb 25 with 1766 views | hype313 |
Russia have the Germans by the throat and they both know that.
This is how I see it going forward.
The West will stop buying Russian oil & gas.
The price on the Middle East markets will rise.
China will buy Russia’s oil & gas.
The price will stabilise.
Short term all our sanctions will do is change the trading pattern of tankers & some pipelines will be constructed.
Long term the West will cut off ties to Russia and China and mark a return to a Cold War footing. |  |
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| So no cutting off Russia from Swift then? on 09:20 - Feb 25 with 1724 views | Guthrum |
| So no cutting off Russia from Swift then? on 08:33 - Feb 25 by Vic |
How on earth has Russia not been immediately removed from the presidency of the UN Security Council? |
Both they and China have a veto. |  |
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| So no cutting off Russia from Swift then? on 09:22 - Feb 25 with 1713 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
Ukraine is certainly no Kuwait!! |  |
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| So no cutting off Russia from Swift then? on 09:24 - Feb 25 with 1707 views | Guthrum |
| So no cutting off Russia from Swift then? on 07:54 - Feb 25 by Lord_Lucan |
UK and USA have recommended Russia is removed from SWIFT but EU don't agree. This would be much more effective and damaging to Russia than any current sanctions.
UK also leading the backing up of Ukraine with defence supplies and intelligence
Yet of course UK is too soft and corrupt according to some.
As an aside............Russia public staging demonstrations and although Russia seems to be steamrolling through, things aren't going all their way. [Post edited 25 Feb 2022 7:59]
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Tho I have read suggestions that removal from SWIFT would be inconvenient rather than outright damaging. China has a rival system which Russian businesses could migrate to, plus there are other routes for money transfer and the option of using cryptocurrencies. | |
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| So no cutting off Russia from Swift then? on 09:24 - Feb 25 with 1703 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| So no cutting off Russia from Swift then? on 08:16 - Feb 25 by Lord_Lucan |
I disagree with this. Cutting them from SWIFT is a sledgehammer. |
China have an alternative version. | |
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| So no cutting off Russia from Swift then? on 09:26 - Feb 25 with 1699 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| So no cutting off Russia from Swift then? on 09:24 - Feb 25 by Guthrum |
Tho I have read suggestions that removal from SWIFT would be inconvenient rather than outright damaging. China has a rival system which Russian businesses could migrate to, plus there are other routes for money transfer and the option of using cryptocurrencies. |
....and US wants to keep the dollar as the global currency. | |
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| So no cutting off Russia from Swift then? on 09:38 - Feb 25 with 1622 views | WD19 |
| So no cutting off Russia from Swift then? on 09:20 - Feb 25 by Guthrum |
Both they and China have a veto. |
Set up Security Council 2.0 and leave them to it. | | | |
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